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| [GMCnet] turbo charged 455? [message #142997] |
Sun, 11 September 2011 10:58  |
john arbuckle
Messages: 122
Registered: March 2010
Karma: 0
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Did a little research last night and everyone I talked to said a turbo
charger would destroy a 455 olds engine. That I would be better off
with a blower. Well turbo sounded good for gas mileage and the space
issue that would be encountered. So I will address that motor issue in
the future unless anyone has any great ideas. I would also like to
know what would help with the control of the beast. It rides good some
new shocks might help with that but the front and rear of this pig is
all over the road. I would like it a bit more stable. I am sure I will
hear I need a new front end a few times and a steering box might not
be a bad idea, but any ideas would be great. Oh yeah I found these
tricked out 455 olds engines online with about 600-800 HP that I would
live to throw in the gmc run me around 13000 just for the engine,
OUCH. We will see tons of time there will definitely be some upgrades
in the future. Thanks fellas
John Arbuckle
1976 Palm Beach
Bellingham WA
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| Re: [GMCnet] turbo charged 455? [message #143005 is a reply to message #143003] |
Sun, 11 September 2011 12:33  |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Dan, the amount of horsepower and torque possible in a 455 Olds engine is
inversely proportional to the longevity of the engine, the more power that
you make, the shorter it lasts. Kinda like 4th of July Fireworks. The more
spectacular the display, the more $$$ it costs and the shorter the
experience. Yes, it can be done, and I would like nothing better than to
relieve your pocketbook of 50 100 dollar bills in so doing, as long as the
expectation was realistic. It is going to be fun while it lasts, which will
not be very long. Spend your money on gearing. You will be surprised what a
good running 455 will do with 3:70 to 1 final drive gears. If it is in a
good state of tune, it will lay rubber for half a block, and be a whole lot
easier on the rest of the drive train as well. But, the last time I checked,
America was still a free country, and the individual can still spend their
money any way that they choose to do so. Bench racing costs only for the
beer and chips. It is great to dream "What if".
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Emery Stora <emerystora@mac.com> wrote:
>
> On Sep 11, 2011, at 11:58 AM, john arbuckle wrote:
>
> > Oh yeah I found these
> > tricked out 455 olds engines online with about 600-800 HP that I would
> > live to throw in the gmc run me around 13000 just for the engine,
> >
>
> That would be great. In D my motorhome would be going about 325 mph at
> 13,000 rpm.
>
> I could sure get to the rallies a lot quicker!
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] turbo charged 455? [message #143015 is a reply to message #142997] |
Sun, 11 September 2011 17:27 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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John,
I disagree with "everyone." Destroying a turbocharged Olds is under the control of your right foot!
If you "nail it" leaving from stoplights or at low speeds frequently yes she'll go BANG pretty quick.
If you ease the power on and use the extra muscle provided by the turbo judiciously I'll bet dollars to donuts you could expect
reasonable engine life.
HOWEVER, building an Olds 455 that will stand up to the added power won't be cheap! It will require heavy duty components and a shop
like Joe Mondello's or Dick Paterson. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if both those shops tried to discourage you from building a
turbocharged engine for a GMC Motorhome.
You may not be aware but our favorite Ornamental (Jim Kan-O-Tomatoes) has a fire breathing Caddy engine in his GMC. I say it's fire
breathing because it has been stroked from 500 to 540 cubic inch displacement and has twin turbos on it! I'd love to see a dyno run
on that sucker! You're guesstimate of 600-800 HP is probably correct for that sucker! The only problem Jim has is keeping it
running! He has been plagued with problems with it.
On a final note if you really want a turbo charged engine check with Michael Bozardt down at GMCRECS:
Tel: (713) 373-7775
Email: gemrecs@yahoo.com
He has one that he removed from a coach.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of john arbuckle
Sent: Monday, 12 September 2011 1:58 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] turbo charged 455?
Did a little research last night and everyone I talked to said a turbo
charger would destroy a 455 olds engine. That I would be better off
with a blower. Well turbo sounded good for gas mileage and the space
issue that would be encountered. So I will address that motor issue in
the future unless anyone has any great ideas. I would also like to
know what would help with the control of the beast. It rides good some
new shocks might help with that but the front and rear of this pig is
all over the road. I would like it a bit more stable. I am sure I will
hear I need a new front end a few times and a steering box might not
be a bad idea, but any ideas would be great. Oh yeah I found these
tricked out 455 olds engines online with about 600-800 HP that I would
live to throw in the gmc run me around 13000 just for the engine,
OUCH. We will see tons of time there will definitely be some upgrades
in the future. Thanks fellas
John Arbuckle
1976 Palm Beach
Bellingham WA
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] turbo charged 455? [message #143016 is a reply to message #143005] |
Sun, 11 September 2011 18:14 |
Guy Lopes
Messages: 499
Registered: April 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Karma: 3
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Dan,
What about turbo normalizing? Installing a turbo not to increase power, but
to maintain power at altitude. Little boost at sea level but increasing as
the air gets thinner the higher one climbs.
Guy in Sacramento
OMG!
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of James Hupy
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 10:33 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] turbo charged 455?
Dan, the amount of horsepower and torque possible in a 455 Olds engine is
inversely proportional to the longevity of the engine, the more power that
you make, the shorter it lasts. Kinda like 4th of July Fireworks. The more
spectacular the display, the more $$$ it costs and the shorter the
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Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
W6TOL
www.GMC-Guy.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] turbo charged 455? [message #143017 is a reply to message #143016] |
Sun, 11 September 2011 18:15 |
Guy Lopes
Messages: 499
Registered: April 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Karma: 3
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Oops, I meant to ask this of Jim.
Guy
OMG!
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Guy Lopes
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 4:14 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] turbo charged 455?
Dan,
What about turbo normalizing? Installing a turbo not to increase power, but
to maintain power at altitude. Little boost at sea level but increasing as
the air gets thinner the higher one climbs.
Guy in Sacramento
OMG!
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of James Hupy
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 10:33 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] turbo charged 455?
Dan, the amount of horsepower and torque possible in a 455 Olds engine is
inversely proportional to the longevity of the engine, the more power that
you make, the shorter it lasts. Kinda like 4th of July Fireworks. The more
spectacular the display, the more $$$ it costs and the shorter the
_______________________________________________
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Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
W6TOL
www.GMC-Guy.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] turbo charged 455? [message #143019 is a reply to message #143015] |
Sun, 11 September 2011 18:33 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Well, we're already running the pressures up by having the engine pull a greater load than it was originally designed to do. But there's enough leeway in the design to do so fairly reliably. What's gonna happen when MAP is 38 - 40 inches of mercury instead of 25 - 28? At a minimum you'rd wanna drop a number on compression would you not? And play with the pressure advance on the distributor. And I'd want to float the wrist pins and either open a spray atop the rods or add one on the block a la VW turbodiesel to keep the pistons cooler. And try to figure put a way to get a frame across the main bearing caps. Anything and everything to stiffen up the bottom of the engine, it's going to take a hell of a pounding when you boost it and the coach is relatively slow to accelerate. And a bulletproof knock sensor.
We maybe ought to Ask The Guy Who Owns One... Either you get the turbo(s) real close to the exhaust ports and make a bad heat problem even worse, or you go downstream a bit and make the turbo lag even longer. I'd be interested in hearibng someone else's results turning a corner at idle and laying on the gas. I bet it will give new meaning to 'torque steer'
Few things sho wless utility than a one - eared sow carrying a silk purse, after all.
--johnny.
--- On Sun, 9/11/11, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
From: Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] turbo charged 455?
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Sunday, September 11, 2011, 10:27 PM
John,
I disagree with "everyone." Destroying a turbocharged Olds is under the control of your right foot!
If you "nail it" leaving from stoplights or at low speeds frequently yes she'll go BANG pretty quick.
If you ease the power on and use the extra muscle provided by the turbo judiciously I'll bet dollars to donuts you could expect
reasonable engine life.
HOWEVER, building an Olds 455 that will stand up to the added power won't be cheap! It will require heavy duty components and a shop
like Joe Mondello's or Dick Paterson. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if both those shops tried to discourage you from building a
turbocharged engine for a GMC Motorhome.
You may not be aware but our favorite Ornamental (Jim Kan-O-Tomatoes) has a fire breathing Caddy engine in his GMC. I say it's fire
breathing because it has been stroked from 500 to 540 cubic inch displacement and has twin turbos on it! I'd love to see a dyno run
on that sucker! You're guesstimate of 600-800 HP is probably correct for that sucker! The only problem Jim has is keeping it
running! He has been plagued with problems with it.
On a final note if you really want a turbo charged engine check with Michael Bozardt down at GMCRECS:
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] turbo charged 455? [message #143021 is a reply to message #143016] |
Sun, 11 September 2011 18:42 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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An outfit called Rajay did that with a number of lightplanes. They used a manual wastegate, and you played it like a throttle. When the throttle hit the panel, you started in on the gate controls, to hold MAP at the desired pressure. You hadda remember to get out of the boost when you started down (Checklist, please), and you hadda watch the head or oil temps because you were making low altitude power in thin air with less cooling capability... but the worked. Engines with TS in the model work a bit better, they do the same thing automatically, and they're heavied up for better cooling both interbnally and externally.
Friend back in The Day had a Twin Commanche with Rajays on it and an oxygen system. He could get some interesting speeds out of it.
--johnny
--- On Sun, 9/11/11, Guy Lopes <guylopes@surewest.net> wrote:
From: Guy Lopes <guylopes@surewest.net>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] turbo charged 455?
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Sunday, September 11, 2011, 11:14 PM
Dan,
What about turbo normalizing? Installing a turbo not to increase power, but
to maintain power at altitude. Little boost at sea level but increasing as
the air gets thinner the higher one climbs.
Guy in Sacramento
OMG!
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of James Hupy
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 10:33 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] turbo charged 455?
Dan, the amount of horsepower and torque possible in a 455 Olds engine is
inversely proportional to the longevity of the engine, the more power that
you make, the shorter it lasts. Kinda like 4th of July Fireworks. The more
spectacular the display, the more $$$ it costs and the shorter the
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] turbo charged 455? [message #143024 is a reply to message #142997] |
Sun, 11 September 2011 19:31 |
 |
mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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| john arbuckle wrote on Sun, 11 September 2011 08:58 |
Did a little research last night and everyone I talked to said a turbo
charger would destroy a 455 olds engine. That I would be better off
with a blower. Well turbo sounded good for gas mileage and the space
issue that would be encountered. So I will address that motor issue in
the future unless anyone has any great ideas. ...
|
I do not understand why a turbo would "destroy" a certain motor but a blower would be ok. They both accomplish the same thing, just to it differently. Both have advantages and issues... I think that properly selected turbos would be better for a machine that once is up to speed runs fairly steady... ie: highway driving.
You could do either... given enough money. (Cheap, fast, reliable. Pick 2.) The problem isn't the motor as much as availability of "off the shelf" performance parts. Even "back in the day" Olds motors did not have the high performance following of some other motor types. This has nothing to do with how "good" the motor is... just how many performance upgrades are available and how much they cost. The most popular motors for "hot rodding" will have the most upgrades at the lowest price.
I am of the opinion that for turbo charging, a small block Chevy would be the most "bang for the buck." If the parts where selected with our application in mind, it would be possible to get some impressive performance and still keep a flat floor over the motor.
There are web sites that show how to make a small block Chevy work with our TH-425 transmissions.
For info: JimB has installed a 350 Olds motor in a 23 foot coach. While not turbo charged, I understand it has fairly good performance.
P.S. It might be a good idea to start a separate thread for your handling issues.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] turbo charged 455? [message #143037 is a reply to message #142997] |
Sun, 11 September 2011 21:54 |
Craig Lechowicz
Messages: 541
Registered: October 2006
Location: Waterford, MI
Karma: 0
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Jim Hupy wrote,
>Kinda like 4th of July Fireworks. The more spectacular the display,
>the more $$$ it costs and the shorter the experience.
I've heard the same thing said about ex-wives!
Craig Lechowicz
'77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
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| Re: [GMCnet] turbo charged 455? [message #143038 is a reply to message #143016] |
Sun, 11 September 2011 22:50 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Guy,
I find that it does not take that much to handle the power as I use
it more for high altitude and for hills.
It is much easier to install twin turbos as it requires less space.
On a gasoline engine, the turbo does not work much until you reach 3"
of vac. and hit 0". After that is where the power comes in,
+1psi-14psi.
Contrary to belief, I have had only one problem related to Turbo. It
was recently, when the shaft sheared due to my stupidity.
I have run Turbo for over 25 years on the GMC.
All my engine problems are related to the basic short comings at the
machine shops.
Turbo's will run $3-4,000 with waste gates and another thousand for
mandrel bend pipes and welding and ceramic coating.
Plus labor of $3-5,000.
On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 7:14 PM, Guy Lopes <guylopes@surewest.net> wrote:
> Dan,
>
> What about turbo normalizing? Installing a turbo not to increase power, but
> to maintain power at altitude. Little boost at sea level but increasing as
> the air gets thinner the higher one climbs.
>
> Guy in Sacramento
>
> OMG!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of James Hupy
> Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 10:33 AM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] turbo charged 455?
>
> Dan, the amount of horsepower and torque possible in a 455 Olds engine is
> inversely proportional to the longevity of the engine, the more power that
> you make, the shorter it lasts. Kinda like 4th of July Fireworks. The more
> spectacular the display, the more $$$ it costs and the shorter the
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] turbo charged 455? [message #143054 is a reply to message #143038] |
Mon, 12 September 2011 05:11 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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One more thought on overpressured internal combustion engines. I have
experience with supercharged engines dating from my first one, a McMullogh
blown Ford Flathead to my current one, a 2003 PT Dream Cruiser a 2.4 Liter
turbocharged/intercooled dual overhead cam shafts, 4 valves per cylinder,
multipoint fuel injection, ECM controlled jewel of a 4 cylinder that makes
220 horsepower, and will gladly spin to 7000 RPM. I don't drive it easily as
my 4th set of premium tires in just under 100,000 miles can attest to. If
you turn off the traction control and stand on it, it will light up the
front tires. I have replaced the engine mounts twice after such antics. But
the qualifier here is that the factory spent millions of dollors in
developing this engine to do that. They didn't just bolt on aftermarket
parts on an engine that was not designed for it. Also, the PT cruiser is a
lightweight compared with the GMC Motorhome. It requires no additional boost
to maintain 70 mph. The GMC weighs in at 12,500 pounds fully laden. Run it
down the freeway at 70 MPH and you require a considerably larger throttle
plate opening and much larger fuel requirement. Add some high altitude work
with steep hills into the mix, and if you could see the exhaust manifolds
under the hatch cover, they glow a nice shade of orange. Yes, you can
supercharge or turbocharge an olds 455 and run it in a motorhome. Will it
live under those conditions?? Maybe, if you don't get too crazy with it.
Probably limit the max boost to around 10 psi over atmospheric for a total
of 24.7 psi at the intake valves, and add fuel to compensate for the
additional air present, perhaps a good intercooler to help control elevated
inlet temperatures and complications with increased fuel flow with blended
fuels that tend to vapor lock, and a camshaft and upgraded valve train that
takes full advantage of the increased airflow, and pistons and rings that
can stand the pressure, and improved engine bearings and lubrication system,
throw in a good engine balance job, and perhaps some port matching.
Shouldn't take a competent engine builder more than a couple of weeks labor
at a fair rate considering his/her experience with such things. If you can
get one installed and debugged for under $10 grand, consider it a bargain.
But do you really, really NEED it? Only you can answer that question. Been
there and done that several times throughout my life. Wouldn't trade the
experience and memories for anything. Mary just used to roll her eyes and
say, here we go again. Another long haul vacation with a fresh, untested
engine. Here comes the Drama again. Always made it home, BUT spent some
roadside service time with her in the rig with hungry children. No place to
properly effect repairs, I can tell you for sure. GMCs are memory
makers,that is for sure.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403 (normally aspirated for now, but you never can tell)
On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 8:50 PM, Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com> wrote:
> Guy,
> I find that it does not take that much to handle the power as I use
> it more for high altitude and for hills.
> It is much easier to install twin turbos as it requires less space.
> On a gasoline engine, the turbo does not work much until you reach 3"
> of vac. and hit 0". After that is where the power comes in,
> +1psi-14psi.
> Contrary to belief, I have had only one problem related to Turbo. It
> was recently, when the shaft sheared due to my stupidity.
> I have run Turbo for over 25 years on the GMC.
> All my engine problems are related to the basic short comings at the
> machine shops.
> Turbo's will run $3-4,000 with waste gates and another thousand for
> mandrel bend pipes and welding and ceramic coating.
> Plus labor of $3-5,000.
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 7:14 PM, Guy Lopes <guylopes@surewest.net> wrote:
> > Dan,
> >
> > What about turbo normalizing? Installing a turbo not to increase power,
> but
> > to maintain power at altitude. Little boost at sea level but increasing
> as
> > the air gets thinner the higher one climbs.
> >
> > Guy in Sacramento
> >
> > OMG!
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> > [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of James Hupy
> > Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 10:33 AM
> > To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> > Subject: Re: [GMCnet] turbo charged 455?
> >
> > Dan, the amount of horsepower and torque possible in a 455 Olds engine is
> > inversely proportional to the longevity of the engine, the more power
> that
> > you make, the shorter it lasts. Kinda like 4th of July Fireworks. The
> more
> > spectacular the display, the more $$$ it costs and the shorter the
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] turbo charged 455? [message #143091 is a reply to message #143054] |
Mon, 12 September 2011 12:48 |
Firefly
Messages: 98
Registered: May 2008
Location: Augusta, Maine
Karma: 0
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I often find new & rebuilt tubo-chargers on the GL website at salvage prices - $350-$500 and wondered whether these units designed for 6-cylinder diesel semi-truck engines would be efficient with our 455s.
Knowing that getting the turbo is not the biggest expense, I don't think it is something that would work very well because of the overall cooling issues we have, as well as the different configurations we all have would make it hard to achieve consistent results from one owner to another - once a successful configuration was identified. Different driving habits and environments (i.e.: flat landers vs. hill climbers) would also make the results unpredictable as well.
Doesn't Ford use a combination of "instant boost" electric-powered turbo with a conventional exhaust-driven turbo to eliminate the lag found in traditional turbo setups? Could that be a possible alternative to the heat issues?
Another option is to use a centrifugal compressor-style super charger, like Paxton, etc. offers. Combined with a COTS FI setup (Holley, Edelbrock, etc.) sitting on top of a Rockwell intake manifold would be a sweet deal, especially if equipped with variable-boost capability (varying the boost vanes). All it takes is an unlimited budget and no desire to break even.
Mark Scoble, Lunenburg, MA - 1973 23' Palm Beach Stretched to 32' and in residence at the GMC Co-Op in Orlando, FL
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