Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » inverter connections
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| Re: [GMCnet] inverter connections [message #69397 is a reply to message #69383] |
Sat, 02 January 2010 20:00   |
jayrabe
Messages: 509
Registered: June 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Thanks JR. So what I understand from your response is that it's OK to connect the output of the inverter to the house AC outlets, as apparently newer coaches do sometimes, but I'm guessing some sort of cross-over/disconnect would be needed so you don't back feed into the inverter when you're on shore power?
J "still learning" Rabe
76 Palm Beach
Portland, OR
> Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 20:07:51 -0500
> From: powwerjon@gmail.com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] inverter connections
>
> Jay,
> It would help alot if you would put what year and model coach you have and
> what part of the country you live in you Signature. It makes it easier for
> us to provide more meaningful answers to your questions.
>
> What year PB?
>
> GMC's never came with sine wave inverter from the factory. It appears that
> the PO (previous owner) added an inverter to run AC devices off the
> batteries when not plugged into shore power. So of today's modern coaches
> some do come with an auto inverter systems that switches between shore power
> AC and inverter power AC. NOT the GMC. As I rebuild my 77 Avion I will be
> added several dual powered circuits.
>
> Does this answer your question?
>
> J.R. Wright
>
> On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 7:29 PM, Jay Rabe <jayrabe@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > In my newly acquired Palm Beach - 6 weeks old now :) , there's a
> > sine-wave inverter, but the output isn't connected. There's just the outlet
> > to plug things into. Is that the way these things are usually
> > wired/connected? I'd have thought the output would be wired into the house
> > system so that all the existing 120vac outlets would be powered. Comments?
> >
> > J "still learning" Rabe
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
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> >
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| Re: [GMCnet] inverter connections [message #69404 is a reply to message #69374] |
Sat, 02 January 2010 20:43 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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J,
It is mandatory that there be a switching circuit if you intend to share
outlets between an inverter and shore power, just as there's a switching
method between the generator and shore power. And the switching must be
done correctly to avoid all sorts of nasty results.
Only the more expensive of the available inverters have internal switching.
There are readily available external switch boxes, but even those sometimes
have difficulty with some inverters because of the often undocumented
internal connections of inverters. Here's a diagram of how it's done if you
want a DIY solution:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=8542&cat=3484
<http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=8542&cat=3484>Are you
sure yours is a sine wave inverter (hopefully) rather than a "modified sine
wave"?
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 7:29 PM, Jay Rabe <jayrabe@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> In my newly acquired Palm Beach - 6 weeks old now :) , there's a
> sine-wave inverter, but the output isn't connected. There's just the outlet
> to plug things into. Is that the way these things are usually
> wired/connected? I'd have thought the output would be wired into the house
> system so that all the existing 120vac outlets would be powered. Comments?
>
> J "still learning" Rabe
>
>
>
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| Re: inverter connections [message #69406 is a reply to message #69374] |
Sat, 02 January 2010 21:13 |
zhagrieb
Messages: 676
Registered: August 2009
Location: Portland Oregon
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Hi Jay from Portland,
Sounds like yours is an aftermarket inverter installed somewhat recently. It probably isn't capable of running anything AC you might turn on or plug in so no attempt was made to wire it into the AC system. The intent was to connect whatever device (TV, computer, etc.) directly to it as needed. Check the data plate or manual to see how many watts it will support.
Glenn from Portland
'73 "Moby the Motorhome"
Glenn Giere, Portland OR, K7GAG
'73 "Moby the Motorhome" 26'
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| Re: [GMCnet] inverter connections [message #69414 is a reply to message #69404] |
Sat, 02 January 2010 22:08 |
jayrabe
Messages: 509
Registered: June 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Thanks Ken for the schematic. Looks pretty straight-forward. My unit is a Xantrex 1000w "modified sine wave" with precautions to not run some battery powered things on it. Oh well.
J
76 Palm Beach
Portland, OR
> Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 21:43:24 -0500
> From: ken0henderson@gmail.com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] inverter connections
>
> J,
>
> It is mandatory that there be a switching circuit if you intend to share
> outlets between an inverter and shore power, just as there's a switching
> method between the generator and shore power. And the switching must be
> done correctly to avoid all sorts of nasty results.
>
> Only the more expensive of the available inverters have internal switching.
> There are readily available external switch boxes, but even those sometimes
> have difficulty with some inverters because of the often undocumented
> internal connections of inverters. Here's a diagram of how it's done if you
> want a DIY solution:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=8542&cat=3484
>
> <http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=8542&cat=3484>Are you
> sure yours is a sine wave inverter (hopefully) rather than a "modified sine
> wave"?
>
> Ken H.
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven
> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 7:29 PM, Jay Rabe <jayrabe@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > In my newly acquired Palm Beach - 6 weeks old now :) , there's a
> > sine-wave inverter, but the output isn't connected. There's just the outlet
> > to plug things into. Is that the way these things are usually
> > wired/connected? I'd have thought the output would be wired into the house
> > system so that all the existing 120vac outlets would be powered. Comments?
> >
> > J "still learning" Rabe
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/
_______________________________________________
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List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: inverter connections [message #69422 is a reply to message #69374] |
Sat, 02 January 2010 23:11 |
zhagrieb
Messages: 676
Registered: August 2009
Location: Portland Oregon
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Jay,
Since your inverter is only 1000 watts you are limited as to what you can run with it. I'd hold off on trying to connect it to your AC system. At best you might take one AC outlet and install a manual switch or a relay to switch it to the inverter. Also, since it produces a modified sine wave as opposed to true sine wave, you may find some stuff you plug in just won't operate properly.
Glenn Giere
Glenn Giere, Portland OR, K7GAG
'73 "Moby the Motorhome" 26'
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| Re: [GMCnet] inverter connections [message #69439 is a reply to message #69419] |
Sun, 03 January 2010 09:06 |
John Wright
Messages: 118
Registered: September 2008
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Jay,
I may owe you an apology. I may have come back a little strong, but I had
not yet read the other replies and did not want you to do anything unsafe.
Like Ken I have switched to GMail and have not yet gotten used to the
format. Ken's Schematics are very good and one way to modify the GMC
electrical system.
J.R. Wright
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 11:30 PM, John Wright <powwerjon@gmail.com> wrote:
> No, that's not what I said.
>
> I said that some of the new coaches today can come with a system that
> allows either shore power at the outlets when hitch to shore power and
> either inverter supplied AC or Generator supplied AC when not hooked to
> shore power.
>
> The GMC is NOT wired to do that. What you have now is a separate inverter
> that you can plug and AC device into, not into the AC circuits. It is not
> designed for that type of operation. You can it you want to spend the time
> and money create a similar system for the GMC like that is being used in the
> larger Class A Motorhomes. The GMC is limited on the number of batteries
> that it can accommodate.
>
> What I am designing is a limited inverter supplied AC outlets in the coach
> that would supply power to one or two outlets. If not on shore power or
> Generator power these outlet would have inverter power. This is to supply
> power to a CPAP in the sleep area and in the case of the Avion that I am
> doing a complete renovation also power the refrigerator which is an AC unit.
>
> It really depends on how much you want to spend to get what you want.
>
> J.R. Wright
>
>
>> Thanks JR. So what I understand from your response is that it's OK to
>> connect the output of the inverter to the house AC outlets, as apparently
>> newer coaches do sometimes, but I'm guessing some sort of
>> cross-over/disconnect would be needed so you don't back feed into the
>> inverter when you're on shore power?
>>
>> J "still learning" Rabe
>>
>> 76 Palm Beach
>> Portland, OR
>>
>>
>>
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| Re: [GMCnet] inverter connections [message #69468 is a reply to message #69439] |
Sun, 03 January 2010 13:20 |
jayrabe
Messages: 509
Registered: June 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Hi JR,
No problem. No offense taken, and no apology necessary. Email communication can be tricky with the need to read between the lines. But thanks for your concern. I understand from other posts and my own experience that you are completely justified in your warnings, as doing things wrong in the electrical field can be disastrous, which was why I asked about a disconnect/crossover. But as I said before, I've decided to leave the configuration the way it is. My original thoughts were more a curiosity than a need for anything different. I don't have anything that I absolutely have to run on the inverter, and since it's a modified sine wave, it's almost useless for the sensitive stuff I might want to power anyway.
Take care and happy motoring :-)
J
> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 10:06:04 -0500
> From: powwerjon@gmail.com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] inverter connections
>
> Jay,
> I may owe you an apology. I may have come back a little strong, but I had
> not yet read the other replies and did not want you to do anything unsafe.
> Like Ken I have switched to GMail and have not yet gotten used to the
> format. Ken's Schematics are very good and one way to modify the GMC
> electrical system.
>
> J.R. Wright
>
> On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 11:30 PM, John Wright <powwerjon@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > No, that's not what I said.
> >
> > I said that some of the new coaches today can come with a system that
> > allows either shore power at the outlets when hitch to shore power and
> > either inverter supplied AC or Generator supplied AC when not hooked to
> > shore power.
> >
> > The GMC is NOT wired to do that. What you have now is a separate inverter
> > that you can plug and AC device into, not into the AC circuits. It is not
> > designed for that type of operation. You can it you want to spend the time
> > and money create a similar system for the GMC like that is being used in the
> > larger Class A Motorhomes. The GMC is limited on the number of batteries
> > that it can accommodate.
> >
> > What I am designing is a limited inverter supplied AC outlets in the coach
> > that would supply power to one or two outlets. If not on shore power or
> > Generator power these outlet would have inverter power. This is to supply
> > power to a CPAP in the sleep area and in the case of the Avion that I am
> > doing a complete renovation also power the refrigerator which is an AC unit.
> >
> > It really depends on how much you want to spend to get what you want.
> >
> > J.R. Wright
> >
> >
> >> Thanks JR. So what I understand from your response is that it's OK to
> >> connect the output of the inverter to the house AC outlets, as apparently
> >> newer coaches do sometimes, but I'm guessing some sort of
> >> cross-over/disconnect would be needed so you don't back feed into the
> >> inverter when you're on shore power?
> >>
> >> J "still learning" Rabe
> >>
> >> 76 Palm Beach
> >> Portland, OR
> >>
> >>
> >>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/
_______________________________________________
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, there's a sine-wave inverter, but the output isn't connected. There's just the outlet to plug things into. Is that the way these things are usually wired/connected? I'd have thought the output would be wired into the house system so that all the existing 120vac outlets would be powered. Comments?
