Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Big black sooty curb
| Big black sooty curb [message #66041] |
Mon, 30 November 2009 02:17  |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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With the power out for 28 hours I parked the Palm Beach on the curb and ran an extension cord to the fridge. I noticed a big black sooty mess at the curb by my exhaust pipe. Not the Onan, the coach's exhaust pipe.
I know the idle has been lousy lately, but it seems I must be running a bit rich. Any suggestions as to what would cause this sooty mess?
Thanks,
Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: Big black sooty curb [message #66044 is a reply to message #66041] |
Mon, 30 November 2009 04:55  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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You diagnosed it correctly. It is running rich.
I would look at the choke first.
Then I would look at the plugs in the bottom of the carb that leaks.
After that I would look to see if there is dirt (probably rust) in the fuel level to run too high.
My last thought is fuel pressure too high causing the same problem as dirt in the carb.
I'll bet the choke isn't openeing all the way.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Big black sooty curb [message #66076 is a reply to message #66041] |
Mon, 30 November 2009 09:18 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Larry,
It could also be a flood of condensate mixed with crap in the exhaust
system. If it is parked at a curb, the coach may be leaning just
enough to let the condensate pool until you rpm the engine up a bit
and blow it all out at once.
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 1:17 AM, Larry Davick <ljdavick@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> With the power out for 28 hours I parked the Palm Beach on the curb and ran an extension cord to the fridge. I noticed a big black sooty mess at the curb by my exhaust pipe. Not the Onan, the coach's exhaust pipe.
>
> I know the idle has been lousy lately, but it seems I must be running a bit rich. Any suggestions as to what would cause this sooty mess?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Larry Davick
> The Mystery Machine
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Big black sooty curb [message #66085 is a reply to message #66076] |
Mon, 30 November 2009 10:29 |
Gary Worobec
Messages: 867
Registered: May 2005
Karma: -1
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That is exactly what I get. Did not have it with the old exhaust system but
have it with the new. Definitely a condensation pool somewhere in the system
that blows the soot out on start up.
Thanks
Gary and Joanne Worobec
1973 GMC Glacier
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Ferguson" <botiemad11@gmail.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 7:18 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Big black sooty curb
Larry,
It could also be a flood of condensate mixed with crap in the exhaust
system. If it is parked at a curb, the coach may be leaning just
enough to let the condensate pool until you rpm the engine up a bit
and blow it all out at once.
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 1:17 AM, Larry Davick <ljdavick@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> With the power out for 28 hours I parked the Palm Beach on the curb and
> ran an extension cord to the fridge. I noticed a big black sooty mess at
> the curb by my exhaust pipe. Not the Onan, the coach's exhaust pipe.
>
> I know the idle has been lousy lately, but it seems I must be running a
> bit rich. Any suggestions as to what would cause this sooty mess?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Larry Davick
> The Mystery Machine
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Big black sooty curb [message #66093 is a reply to message #66082] |
Mon, 30 November 2009 11:41 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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| ljdavick wrote on Mon, 30 November 2009 10:23 |
Ken,
Interesting thought about the fuel pressure. I just had an electric
pump installed recently.
Thanks,
Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
|
what pump did you use? some of them have too high a pressure for our application.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] Big black sooty curb [message #66108 is a reply to message #66093] |
Mon, 30 November 2009 13:24 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Fred,
I'm not sure which pump it is, but I'll find out as soon as I hear from Nick at Jim K's place.
The reason I'm thinking the fuel pump is the culprit is this: I had the fuel lines replaced at Jim K's place and an electric pump installed. When I drove it home it drove very poorly on the freeway at WOT - stumbling, etc., as if it were starving for fuel. So I brought it back to Jim's place where Donnie adjusted the pump. Now it drives great on the road, but the idle has become worse and worse. Now it's so stinky and running so poorly that I routinely put it in neutral and rev it to 1,000 rpm at stop lights. I'd turn if off, but it diesels now too! I know better, but we just want to go places and I haven't blocked out the time to work on the coach. It's possible, I suppose that I have a vacuum leak (though I've sprayed some WD-40 on the vacuum lines), or that the carburetor is falling apart, but I'm looking for a smoking gun.
My long term (within a year) plan is to go with TBI and an electronic distributor, but it's just not in the budget right now. (Also I'm selfishly waiting for the big-boys to play with theirs and figure out the sweet-spot! Bleeding edge just isn't my style.) I do plan to install the blocked intake gaskets this month. Maybe I should install a fuel pressure gauge - any favorites?
She ran great coming back from Ohio, except for the fuel leaks, so I'm leaning more and more toward the fuel pump. I have a call in to Nick at Jim K's place to talk about the fuel pump. He'll certainly get back to me today.
Does this sound far-fetched to any of you, or is this plausible enough to pursue.
I'm getting more long-winded with every post.
Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
----- Original Message -----
From: "fred veenschoten" <fredntoni@cox.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 9:41:14 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Big black sooty curb
what pump did you use? some of them have too high a pressure for our application.
--
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
_______________________________________________
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] Big black sooty curb [message #66166 is a reply to message #66108] |
Mon, 30 November 2009 18:57 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| ljdavick wrote on Mon, 30 November 2009 13:24 |
Fred,
I'm not sure which pump it is, but I'll find out as soon as I hear from Nick at Jim K's place.
The reason I'm thinking the fuel pump is the culprit is this: I had the fuel lines replaced at Jim K's place and an electric pump installed. When I drove it home it drove very poorly on the freeway at WOT - stumbling, etc., as if it were starving for fuel. So I brought it back to Jim's place where Donnie adjusted the pump. Now it drives great on the road, but the idle has become worse and worse. Now it's so stinky and running so poorly that I routinely put it in neutral and rev it to 1,000 rpm at stop lights. I'd turn if off, but it diesels now too! I know better, but we just want to go places and I haven't blocked out the time to work on the coach. It's possible, I suppose that I have a vacuum leak (though I've sprayed some WD-40 on the vacuum lines), or that the carburetor is falling apart, but I'm looking for a smoking gun.
My long term (within a year) plan is to go with TBI and an electronic distributor, but it's just not in the budget right now. (Also I'm selfishly waiting for the big-boys to play with theirs and figure out the sweet-spot! Bleeding edge just isn't my style.) I do plan to install the blocked intake gaskets this month. Maybe I should install a fuel pressure gauge - any favorites?
She ran great coming back from Ohio, except for the fuel leaks, so I'm leaning more and more toward the fuel pump. I have a call in to Nick at Jim K's place to talk about the fuel pump. He'll certainly get back to me today.
Does this sound far-fetched to any of you, or is this plausible enough to pursue.
I'm getting more long-winded with every post.
Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
----- Original Message -----
From: "fred veenschoten" <fredntoni@cox.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 9:41:14 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Big black sooty curb
what pump did you use? some of them have too high a pressure for our application.
--
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
_______________________________________________
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List Information and Subscription Options:
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Jim knows what pump to use but there could be other issue there. do you still have the mechanical pump? how is the electric pump wired up?
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] Big black sooty curb [message #66169 is a reply to message #66166] |
Mon, 30 November 2009 19:00 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
|
Senior Member |
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|
The mechanical pump has been removed and blocked off. The electric pump is a Carter, and is actuated with the ignition switch.
Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
----- Original Message -----
From: "fred veenschoten" <fredntoni@cox.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 4:57:55 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Big black sooty curb
ljdavick wrote on Mon, 30 November 2009 13:24
> Fred,
>
> I'm not sure which pump it is, but I'll find out as soon as I hear from Nick at Jim K's place.
>
> The reason I'm thinking the fuel pump is the culprit is this: I had the fuel lines replaced at Jim K's place and an electric pump installed. When I drove it home it drove very poorly on the freeway at WOT - stumbling, etc., as if it were starving for fuel. So I brought it back to Jim's place where Donnie adjusted the pump. Now it drives great on the road, but the idle has become worse and worse. Now it's so stinky and running so poorly that I routinely put it in neutral and rev it to 1,000 rpm at stop lights. I'd turn if off, but it diesels now too! I know better, but we just want to go places and I haven't blocked out the time to work on the coach. It's possible, I suppose that I have a vacuum leak (though I've sprayed some WD-40 on the vacuum lines), or that the carburetor is falling apart, but I'm looking for a smoking gun.
>
> My long term (within a year) plan is to go with TBI and an electronic distributor, but it's just not in the budget right now. (Also I'm selfishly waiting for the big-boys to play with theirs and figure out the sweet-spot! Bleeding edge just isn't my style.) I do plan to install the blocked intake gaskets this month. Maybe I should install a fuel pressure gauge - any favorites?
>
> She ran great coming back from Ohio, except for the fuel leaks, so I'm leaning more and more toward the fuel pump. I have a call in to Nick at Jim K's place to talk about the fuel pump. He'll certainly get back to me today.
>
> Does this sound far-fetched to any of you, or is this plausible enough to pursue.
>
> I'm getting more long-winded with every post.
>
> Larry Davick
> The Mystery Machine
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "fred veenschoten" <fredntoni@cox.net>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 9:41:14 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Big black sooty curb
>
> what pump did you use? some of them have too high a pressure for our application.
>
> --
> Fred V
> '77 Royale RB 455
> P'cola, Fl
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Jim knows what pump to use but there could be other issue there. do you still have the mechanical pump? how is the electric pump wired up?
--
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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List Information and Subscription Options:
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Big black sooty curb [message #66176 is a reply to message #66169] |
Mon, 30 November 2009 19:20 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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| ljdavick wrote on Mon, 30 November 2009 20:00 |
The mechanical pump has been removed and blocked off. The electric pump is a Carter, and is actuated with the ignition switch.
Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
----- Original Message -----
From: "fred veenschoten" <fredntoni@cox.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 4:57:55 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Big black sooty curb
ljdavick wrote on Mon, 30 November 2009 13:24
> Fred,
>
> I'm not sure which pump it is, but I'll find out as soon as I hear from Nick at Jim K's place.
>
> The reason I'm thinking the fuel pump is the culprit is this: I had the fuel lines replaced at Jim K's place and an electric pump installed. When I drove it home it drove very poorly on the freeway at WOT - stumbling, etc., as if it were starving for fuel. So I brought it back to Jim's place where Donnie adjusted the pump. Now it drives great on the road, but the idle has become worse and worse. Now it's so stinky and running so poorly that I routinely put it in neutral and rev it to 1,000 rpm at stop lights. I'd turn if off, but it diesels now too! I know better, but we just want to go places and I haven't blocked out the time to work on the coach. It's possible, I suppose that I have a vacuum leak (though I've sprayed some WD-40 on the vacuum lines), or that the carburetor is falling apart, but I'm looking for a smoking gun.
>
> My long term (within a year) plan is to go with TBI and an electronic distributor, but it's just not in the budget right now. (Also I'm selfishly waiting for the big-boys to play with theirs and figure out the sweet-spot! Bleeding edge just isn't my style.) I do plan to install the blocked intake gaskets this month. Maybe I should install a fuel pressure gauge - any favorites?
>
> She ran great coming back from Ohio, except for the fuel leaks, so I'm leaning more and more toward the fuel pump. I have a call in to Nick at Jim K's place to talk about the fuel pump. He'll certainly get back to me today.
>
> Does this sound far-fetched to any of you, or is this plausible enough to pursue.
>
> I'm getting more long-winded with every post.
>
> Larry Davick
> The Mystery Machine
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "fred veenschoten" <fredntoni@cox.net>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 9:41:14 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Big black sooty curb
>
> what pump did you use? some of them have too high a pressure for our application.
>
> --
> Fred V
> '77 Royale RB 455
> P'cola, Fl
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Jim knows what pump to use but there could be other issue there. do you still have the mechanical pump? how is the electric pump wired up?
--
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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Sir: I basicly had the same issue when I replaced a faulty mechanical pump with an electric pump from NAPA on a trip to Florida. Upon returning home the electric pump started leaking and I replaced with Auto Zone replacement mechanical, took the electric pump off and all issues cleared up. 4 years ago. Still going...  Did get my money back from NAPA.
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] Big black sooty curb [message #66189 is a reply to message #66179] |
Mon, 30 November 2009 20:58 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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So much of our parts are made in China where qulity control does not exist.
We use Carter Elecric pumps. I have had other shops caution us on these pumps.
Looks like we will need to use a pressure regulator.
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 5:35 PM, Charles Boyd <covered-wagon@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> ljdavick wrote on Mon, 30 November 2009 20:25
>> Expensive school, this GMC...
>>
>> Larry Davick
>> The Mystery Machine
>>
>> Sir: I basicly had the same issue when I replaced a faulty mechanical pump with an electric pump from NAPA on a trip to Florida. Upon returning home the electric pump started leaking and I replaced with Auto Zone replacement mechanical, took the electric pump off and all issues cleared up. 4 years ago. Still going... :) Did get my money back from NAPA.
>> --
>> C. Boyd
>> 76 Crestmont by Midas
>> East Tennessee
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
>
>
>
>
> When I bought my GMC, I replaced wheel bearings and tires and went to Florida and back pulling a trailer. Â Used it almost every weekend for about 1 1/2 years spending practically nothing. Â Then Jim B turned me on to the NET. Â Expensive school, this NET....
> --
> C. Boyd
> 76 Crestmont by Midas
> East Tennessee
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Big black sooty curb [message #66198 is a reply to message #66189] |
Mon, 30 November 2009 21:19 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 9:58 PM, Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com> wrote:
> So much of our parts are made in China where qulity control does not
> exist...
I had an interesting conversation on that very topic over Thanksgiving: Our
daughter & SIL recently taught in China for two years. They explained that
Chinese culturally consider their obligations to their immediate circle to
be totally important, with anyone and anything outside of minimal
importance. They saw it mostly in the propensity to cheat -- helping
friends, regardless of any broader implications, including the certain
knowledge that they'd be failed if caught (they still had to fulfill their
obligation to their neighbor, knowing that the neighbor would then be
obligated to reciprocate). In production, that same tendency appears:
Anything they can do, any corner they can cut, to improve the profit for
the employer (immediate circle) is OK -- the customer's loss is HIS problem,
not theirs.
I've heard similar tales from others who've done business, or tried to, in
China. Dave Greenberg may or may not agree.
Ken H.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Big black sooty curb [message #66202 is a reply to message #66178] |
Mon, 30 November 2009 21:49 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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| ljdavick wrote on Mon, 30 November 2009 19:25 |
Expensive school, this GMC...
Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
|
the electric pump is very nice to have if needed as in the case of vapor lock or a dry carb after sitting for a long time. it does need to be controllable. i have a switch on the dash for it others wire it to the tank selector valve so it comes on when the aux tank is selected. if you make this change you will have the best of both worlds.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] Big black sooty curb [message #66225 is a reply to message #66076] |
Tue, 01 December 2009 00:14 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Please do not hop on the pump as being the problem without first verifying that the choke is operating normally.
If you believe the pump is an issue install a fuel pressure gauge and verify it's output pressure. It should be 4 to 6 pounds.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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