Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Dieseling?
| Dieseling? [message #64663] |
Tue, 17 November 2009 18:15  |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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It's been a long time since High School auto shop, when these rigs were current. What causes run-on, or dieseling? The rig was just tuned up by Tom Hampton about 3,500 miles ago, but a lot can change with this old beast.
I must admit that I haven't even done the basics - check the timing, look at the plugs, etc. - because I know that the combined wisdom of the net will steer me from gross mistakes and wasted time.
Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: Dieseling? [message #64664 is a reply to message #64663] |
Tue, 17 November 2009 18:20  |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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| ljdavick wrote on Tue, 17 November 2009 19:15 |
It's been a long time since High School auto shop, when these rigs were current. What causes run-on, or dieseling? The rig was just tuned up by Tom Hampton about 3,500 miles ago, but a lot can change with this old beast.
I must admit that I haven't even done the basics - check the timing, look at the plugs, etc. - because I know that the combined wisdom of the net will steer me from gross mistakes and wasted time.
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If it has just started the run-on and has done ok sunce the tune up, I would look for a vacuum leak causing it to idle to fast.
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dieseling? [message #64666 is a reply to message #64663] |
Tue, 17 November 2009 18:24 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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leaking plugs in the bottom of the carb,
choke hung up
etc
in general just a typical carb;>)
this is why I went to a Howell TBI
GENE
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:15 PM, Larry Davick <ljdavick@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> It's been a long time since High School auto shop, when these rigs were
> current. What causes run-on, or dieseling? The rig was just tuned up by Tom
> Hampton about 3,500 miles ago, but a lot can change with this old beast.
>
> I must admit that I haven't even done the basics - check the timing, look
> at the plugs, etc. - because I know that the combined wisdom of the net will
> steer me from gross mistakes and wasted time.
>
>
>
> --
> Larry Davick
> The Mystery Machine
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: Dieseling? [message #64691 is a reply to message #64663] |
Tue, 17 November 2009 21:07 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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"
It's been a long time since High School auto shop, when these rigs were current. What causes run-on, or dieseling? The rig was just tuned up by Tom Hampton about 3,500 miles ago, but a lot can change with this old beast.""
On a GMC it is usually due to a fast idle--either because of the idle setting on the carb, a vacuum leak, or advanced timing--possibly because of a stuck centrifugal advance.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dieseling? [message #64720 is a reply to message #64691] |
Wed, 18 November 2009 01:51 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Wouldn't a stuck centrifugal advance cause the beast to knock like
crazy on the way up to speed?
I'm just trying to think my way around doing some work...
Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
On Nov 17, 2009, at 7:07 PM, Bob de Kruyff wrote:
>
>
> "
> It's been a long time since High School auto shop, when these rigs
> were current. What causes run-on, or dieseling? The rig was just
> tuned up by Tom Hampton about 3,500 miles ago, but a lot can change
> with this old beast.""
>
> On a GMC it is usually due to a fast idle--either because of the
> idle setting on the carb, a vacuum leak, or advanced timing--
> possibly because of a stuck centrifugal advance.
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dieseling? [message #64727 is a reply to message #64720] |
Wed, 18 November 2009 06:39 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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| ljdavick wrote on Wed, 18 November 2009 02:51 |
Wouldn't a stuck centrifugal advance cause the beast to knock like
crazy on the way up to speed?
I'm just trying to think my way around doing some work...
Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
On Nov 17, 2009, at 7:07 PM, Bob de Kruyff wrote:
>
>
> "
> It's been a long time since High School auto shop, when these rigs
> were current. What causes run-on, or dieseling? The rig was just
> tuned up by Tom Hampton about 3,500 miles ago, but a lot can change
> with this old beast.""
>
> On a GMC it is usually due to a fast idle--either because of the
> idle setting on the carb, a vacuum leak, or advanced timing--
> possibly because of a stuck centrifugal advance.
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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Larry: A stuck advance may or may not cause noticable spark knock, depending on initial timing, temp of engine, and octane of fuel used. Since you just replaced the exhaust gaskets you might look at the vacuum hose going to the charcoal canister where it plugs to the carb. Also PCV hose. Vacuum hoses do get brittle and crack on the ends sometimes. You can use wd-40 to squirt around suspected areas as hose connections and carb base. If idle picks up, bingo. Also pull the vacuum line going to the distributor and suck (apply vacuum) to the advance diaphram and see if it is ruptured or if it will hold vacuum.
As for owning a GMC and getting out of working on it: 
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dieseling? [message #64737 is a reply to message #64663] |
Wed, 18 November 2009 08:12 |
Terry Skinner
Messages: 379
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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I think you need to be more specific. When does it diesel?? Just after
start-up? After driving for a while?? Hot, cold?? Another thing is did
you de-carbon the cylinders?? A very common cause of dieseling is
carbon build-up on the pistons. More info. We are hungry for
info...........Terry
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:15 PM, Larry Davick <ljdavick@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> It's been a long time since High School auto shop, when these rigs were current. What causes run-on, or dieseling? The rig was just tuned up by Tom Hampton about 3,500 miles ago, but a lot can change with this old beast.
>
> I must admit that I haven't even done the basics - check the timing, look at the plugs, etc. - because I know that the combined wisdom of the net will steer me from gross mistakes and wasted time.
>
>
>
> --
> Larry Davick
> The Mystery Machine
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Terry Skinner
253-686-2624
Roy. Washington
'76 GMC
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dieseling? [message #64755 is a reply to message #64737] |
Wed, 18 November 2009 10:41 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Driving back from Ohio (to California) she ran great, no dieseling.
Now when I shut it down, 90% of the time she diesels. After
replacing the first (driver's side) exhaust manifold gasket there was
a significant improvement in power at WOT, and an accompanying ROAR
when I mashed the accelerator - probably unrelated. Took a pleasant
trip to Disneyland when we noticed the passenger side exhaust gasket
began to leak. She started dieseling during the Disney trip. Upon
arriving home I replaced that gasket and seemed to have lost that
power boost and ROAR that I was enjoying.
Now she starts great, runs like a top, but the idle is variable from
a bit too fast, maybe 1,000 - 1,100 rpm to stumbling and too slow,
maybe 400 - 500 rpm. She has never stalled at idle. Both mufflers
were split, and as a short term solution I've had 2 new ones
installed. Don't know how they sound yet, because I asked the guy to
weld on an O2 sensor bung. He did, but he didn't plug it! What a
noise I got out of that last night on my way to the storage yard!
It's clear that there is something whacky going on with my gremlins,
and I'll have to whip them into shape. It's going to have to wait a
little while, though, as we're camping this weekend.
Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
(aren't they all?)
On Nov 18, 2009, at 6:12 AM, Terry Skinner wrote:
> I think you need to be more specific. When does it diesel?? Just after
> start-up? After driving for a while?? Hot, cold?? Another thing is did
> you de-carbon the cylinders?? A very common cause of dieseling is
> carbon build-up on the pistons. More info. We are hungry for
> info...........Terry
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:15 PM, Larry Davick
> <ljdavick@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> It's been a long time since High School auto shop, when these rigs
>> were current. What causes run-on, or dieseling? The rig was just
>> tuned up by Tom Hampton about 3,500 miles ago, but a lot can
>> change with this old beast.
>>
>> I must admit that I haven't even done the basics - check the
>> timing, look at the plugs, etc. - because I know that the combined
>> wisdom of the net will steer me from gross mistakes and wasted time.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Larry Davick
>> The Mystery Machine
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Terry Skinner
> 253-686-2624
> Roy. Washington
> '76 GMC
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dieseling? [message #64904 is a reply to message #64755] |
Thu, 19 November 2009 11:48 |
Terry Skinner
Messages: 379
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Do you have the heat riser blocked?? An over heated carburetor will
give the same symptoms. As for the mufflers you should throw them away
and put one in the back. The roar should be from the secondaries
opening. Do you have the original carburetor?? Has it been rebuilt? By
whom?? Might be that the linkage to the secondaries are out of
adjustment. Sometimes open, some times not so open. Look down the
throttle bore, not running, air cleaner off, then push the accelerator
all the way to the floor. Are they wide open?? All 4 barrels at the
same time as the pedal hits the floor??
Keep going...........Terry
On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 8:41 AM, Larry Davick <ljdavick@comcast.net> wrote:
> Driving back from Ohio (to California) she ran great, no dieseling.
>
> Now when I shut it down, 90% of the time she diesels. After
> replacing the first (driver's side) exhaust manifold gasket there was
> a significant improvement in power at WOT, and an accompanying ROAR
> when I mashed the accelerator - probably unrelated. Took a pleasant
> trip to Disneyland when we noticed the passenger side exhaust gasket
> began to leak. She started dieseling during the Disney trip. Upon
> arriving home I replaced that gasket and seemed to have lost that
> power boost and ROAR that I was enjoying.
>
> Now she starts great, runs like a top, but the idle is variable from
> a bit too fast, maybe 1,000 - 1,100 rpm to stumbling and too slow,
> maybe 400 - 500 rpm. She has never stalled at idle. Both mufflers
> were split, and as a short term solution I've had 2 new ones
> installed. Don't know how they sound yet, because I asked the guy to
> weld on an O2 sensor bung. He did, but he didn't plug it! What a
> noise I got out of that last night on my way to the storage yard!
>
> It's clear that there is something whacky going on with my gremlins,
> and I'll have to whip them into shape. It's going to have to wait a
> little while, though, as we're camping this weekend.
>
> Larry Davick
> The Mystery Machine
> (aren't they all?)
>
> On Nov 18, 2009, at 6:12 AM, Terry Skinner wrote:
>
>> I think you need to be more specific. When does it diesel?? Just after
>> start-up? After driving for a while?? Hot, cold?? Another thing is did
>> you de-carbon the cylinders?? A very common cause of dieseling is
>> carbon build-up on the pistons. More info. We are hungry for
>> info...........Terry
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:15 PM, Larry Davick
>> <ljdavick@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> It's been a long time since High School auto shop, when these rigs
>>> were current. What causes run-on, or dieseling? The rig was just
>>> tuned up by Tom Hampton about 3,500 miles ago, but a lot can
>>> change with this old beast.
>>>
>>> I must admit that I haven't even done the basics - check the
>>> timing, look at the plugs, etc. - because I know that the combined
>>> wisdom of the net will steer me from gross mistakes and wasted time.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Larry Davick
>>> The Mystery Machine
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Terry Skinner
>> 253-686-2624
>> Roy. Washington
>> '76 GMC
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Terry Skinner
253-686-2624
Roy. Washington
'76 GMC
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| Re: Dieseling? [message #64909 is a reply to message #64663] |
Thu, 19 November 2009 12:14 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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it seems to be a very common problem with the secondaries not opening or partially opening. you have to either take the slack out of the accelerator cable or bend the pedal up so it has more travel.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dieseling? [message #64923 is a reply to message #64904] |
Thu, 19 November 2009 14:15 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Terry,
I doubt the crossover is blocked, but the PO did some very good things to this coach. Hey - I don't remember ever reading praise for a PO before! I guess I got lucky. Anyway, blocking the crossovers with the stainless plug and gasket is on my list, but not this weekend - we're going camping!
I've just replaced the mufflers as a cheap stop-gap since the existing ones had split. This was probably exacerbated by the dieseling. She now purrs just like she's supposed to. And, oddly, for the short while I ran it last night the idle was stable. Fast, but stable, which leads me to suspect a vacuum leak. Could a leaky muffler cause the idle to stumble?
I do intend to fiddle with the carb over the weekend, and maybe spray some WD 40 on the vacuum lines while the wife and kinder are playing. I really was astounded by the ROAR from the carb once the secondaries opened. Our trip back from Ohio did not seem to be lacking for power, but what a difference it made when they opened up. I have to snip that little tab off of the choke... The throttle peddle is fully pulling the cable - no need to bend it.
And as you suggest - I'll Keep Going!
Thanks,
Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Skinner" <gmcnut@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:48:55 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dieseling?
Do you have the heat riser blocked?? An over heated carburetor will
give the same symptoms. As for the mufflers you should throw them away
and put one in the back. The roar should be from the secondaries
opening. Do you have the original carburetor?? Has it been rebuilt? By
whom?? Might be that the linkage to the secondaries are out of
adjustment. Sometimes open, some times not so open. Look down the
throttle bore, not running, air cleaner off, then push the accelerator
all the way to the floor. Are they wide open?? All 4 barrels at the
same time as the pedal hits the floor??
Keep going...........Terry
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dieseling? [message #64936 is a reply to message #64923] |
Thu, 19 November 2009 16:08 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Larry,
I had problems with dieseling in Double Trouble and blew out two pairs of
mufflers when it backfired upon shutdown!
I solved the problem by adjusting the idle to around 600-650 with the trans
in drive.
I used the tool below to adjust the idle jets:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29911
BTW - until I could get the carb adjusted I shut the engine down with the
trans in Drive which kept the engine from dieseling.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry Davick
Sent: Friday, 20 November 2009 7:15 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dieseling?
Terry,
I doubt the crossover is blocked, but the PO did some very good things to
this coach. Hey - I don't remember ever reading praise for a PO before! I
guess I got lucky. Anyway, blocking the crossovers with the stainless plug
and gasket is on my list, but not this weekend - we're going camping!
I've just replaced the mufflers as a cheap stop-gap since the existing ones
had split. This was probably exacerbated by the dieseling. She now purrs
just like she's supposed to. And, oddly, for the short while I ran it last
night the idle was stable. Fast, but stable, which leads me to suspect a
vacuum leak. Could a leaky muffler cause the idle to stumble?
I do intend to fiddle with the carb over the weekend, and maybe spray some
WD 40 on the vacuum lines while the wife and kinder are playing. I really
was astounded by the ROAR from the carb once the secondaries opened. Our
trip back from Ohio did not seem to be lacking for power, but what a
difference it made when they opened up. I have to snip that little tab off
of the choke... The throttle peddle is fully pulling the cable - no need to
bend it.
And as you suggest - I'll Keep Going!
Thanks,
Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Skinner" <gmcnut@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:48:55 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dieseling?
Do you have the heat riser blocked?? An over heated carburetor will
give the same symptoms. As for the mufflers you should throw them away
and put one in the back. The roar should be from the secondaries
opening. Do you have the original carburetor?? Has it been rebuilt? By
whom?? Might be that the linkage to the secondaries are out of
adjustment. Sometimes open, some times not so open. Look down the
throttle bore, not running, air cleaner off, then push the accelerator
all the way to the floor. Are they wide open?? All 4 barrels at the
same time as the pedal hits the floor??
Keep going...........Terry
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dieseling? [message #65048 is a reply to message #64972] |
Fri, 20 November 2009 12:10 |
Rick Denney
Messages: 430
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Gary Casey writes...
> Does the comment about putting a single muffler in the back apply
> only to 26's? In my 23 there appears to be not enough length to put
> much more than a token muffler back there.
Unfortunately, yes. Ken Henderson managed to squeeze a muffler back
there, but only by doing some customizing. He has some pictures on the
net, but I can't figure a way to list his albums and he'll have to
find it and post it.
The single-muffler kits, though, won't work out of the box.
Rick "preferring a side exhaust that doesn't hang below the bumper"
Denney
'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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'73 Glacier 230 "Jaws"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dieseling? [message #65050 is a reply to message #65048] |
Fri, 20 November 2009 12:15 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4453
Dennis (helping Rick Denney) Sexton
73 GMC
Germantown, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Denney <rick@rickdenney.com>
To: Gary Casey <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Fri, Nov 20, 2009 12:10 pm
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dieseling?
Gary Casey writes...
> Does the comment about putting a single muffler in the back apply
only to 26's? In my 23 there appears to be not enough length to put
much more than a token muffler back there.
Unfortunately, yes. Ken Henderson managed to squeeze a muffler back
here, but only by doing some customizing. He has some pictures on the
et, but I can't figure a way to list his albums and he'll have to
ind it and post it.
The single-muffler kits, though, won't work out of the box.
Rick "preferring a side exhaust that doesn't hang below the bumper"
enney
'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
orthern Virginia
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MCnet mailing list
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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