| Battery issue [message #64477] |
Mon, 16 November 2009 11:46  |
Oldngray
Messages: 544
Registered: August 2009
Location: Punta Gorda Florida
Karma: 0
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In a earlier post I mentioned removing my buzz box and installing the Intellicharger. I tried starting the engine this morning and was greeted with a dead battery. The coach is on shore power and the little green light is blinking once every 5 or 6 seconds which tells me that it is in the maintenance mode. The house batteries are fully charged. I thought that all of the coach batteries were charged by shore power.
What did I do wrong in the installation to not have the engine battery being charged? All I did was disconnect the buzz box and used the same wires to hook up the new.
Richard MacDonald
Punta Gorda, Florida
Sold our TZE April 2015
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| Re: [GMCnet] Battery issue [message #64481 is a reply to message #64479] |
Mon, 16 November 2009 12:16  |
Oldngray
Messages: 544
Registered: August 2009
Location: Punta Gorda Florida
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Thanks for the explanation, I am not sure which Posts I am supposed to connect, the PO had made up a jumper just for thar purpose but again, I don't know where to connect it. I am still uncertain as to what you mean by a random failure. The only item that is powered with the key off is the Radio which shows time. Is the Engine Battery supposed to be maintained/charged while on shore power?
Richard MacDonald
Punta Gorda, Florida
Sold our TZE April 2015
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| Re: [GMCnet] Battery issue [message #64527 is a reply to message #64477] |
Mon, 16 November 2009 16:19 |
Rick Denney
Messages: 430
Registered: January 2004
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Richard MacDonald writes...
> In a earlier post I mentioned removing my buzz box and installing
> the Intellicharger. I tried starting the engine this morning and
> was greeted with a dead battery. The coach is on shore power and the
> little green light is blinking once every 5 or 6 seconds which tells
> me that it is in the maintenance mode. The house batteries are
> fully charged. I thought that all of the coach batteries were charged by shore power.
You did nothing wrong except believe this assumption, which is
completely excusable because the converter *should* charge the engine
battery.
Now that you have a converter capable of properly maintaining
batteries, you need to purchase a Yandina C100 Combiner
(www.yandina.com usually has refurb models for cheap). Wire the two
big red leads to each end of your isolator (do NOT shorten them), and
the black lead to ground. Bundle up and ignore the green lead.
After doing that, when there is a charge-level voltage on the house
side, the combiner will combine the two batteries. When you are dry
camping, though, they will de-combine and you won't run your engine
battery down.
The factory isolator arrangement allows the engine alternator to
charge the house battery, but it does not allow the house converter to
charge or maintain the engine battery.
Rick "a violation of expectations" Denney
'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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'73 Glacier 230 "Jaws"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Battery issue [message #64529 is a reply to message #64481] |
Mon, 16 November 2009 16:26 |
Rick Denney
Messages: 430
Registered: January 2004
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Richard MacDonald writes...
> Thanks for the explanation, I am not sure which Posts I am supposed
> to connect, the PO had made up a jumper just for thar purpose but
> again, I don't know where to connect it. I am still uncertain as to
> what you mean by a random failure. The only item that is powered
> with the key off is the Radio which shows time. Is the Engine
> Battery supposed to be maintained/charged while on shore power?
The jumper is a "manual" combiner. An automatic one as I describe in
my other post will be more useful, and you won't have to worry about
forgetting it's there.
The isolator is that finned aluminum device mounted on the firewall
right under the passenger's windwhield wiper, behind the access hatch.
Just wire the two red leads of a combiner to the top and bottom
terminals of that device.
Here's a picture of a factory arrangement showing the usual location
of the isolator.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=5261
And if you are interested in more theory:
http://www.gmceast.com/technical/ look down the page for my article on
the electrical system.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3677 for
pictures of a system without an isolator. (But leave your isolator
right where it is--that's the better answer for most folks.)
Rick "and then check your chassis circuits for what is draining the
engine battery" Denney
'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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| Re: [GMCnet] Battery issue [message #64530 is a reply to message #64486] |
Mon, 16 November 2009 16:29 |
Rick Denney
Messages: 430
Registered: January 2004
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Dan Gregg writes...
> You can eliminate this problem with a combiner in place of the
> isolator.
Dan, you don't need to remove the isolator to install a combiner, and
not doing so keeps the alternator line from being energized except
when the alternator is actually turning. That's an advantage for some.
I wouldn't buy a new isolator, but nowadays if I still had one, I'd
just put the combiner right on top of it. Gene Fisher's idea--and a
good one.
Rick "keeping it easy" Denney
'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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| Re: Battery issue [message #64538 is a reply to message #64477] |
Mon, 16 November 2009 17:27 |
Oldngray
Messages: 544
Registered: August 2009
Location: Punta Gorda Florida
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Thank you all once again. Hope someday I will be knowledgeable enuf to help others too.
This forum is a blessing for all. Trust that it will continue.
In God I trust.
Best Regards,
Richard MacDonald
Punta Gorda, Florida
Sold our TZE April 2015
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| Re: [GMCnet] Battery issue [message #64560 is a reply to message #64477] |
Mon, 16 November 2009 19:13 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Richard,
As several have said you could install a combiner to eliminate the
problem of charging your chassis battery which is not charge when the
house battery is being charged. The most direct and simple way to
charge the coach battery is to put a jumper across the boost relay.
You can use a 14/16 Ga. wire with clips on the end as the quick and
dirty way. This method has been use by many GMCers over the years
including myself until I install a separate trickle charger that runs
when ever the coach is plugged into house power. That is what work
for me.
Here are several ways to do it.
<http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=7740>
<http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=12094>
<http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=12521>
<http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=24993>
J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
TZE Zone Restorations
77 Eleganza Custom (For Sale)
1975 Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan
>
>
> In a earlier post I mentioned removing my buzz box and installing
> the Intellicharger. I tried starting the engine this morning and
> was greeted with a dead battery. The coach is on shore power and the
> little green light is blinking once every 5 or 6 seconds which tells
> me that it is in the maintenance mode. The house batteries are
> fully charged. I thought that all of the coach batteries were
> charged by shore power.
> What did I do wrong in the installation to not have the engine
> battery being charged? All I did was disconnect the buzz box and
> used the same wires to hook up the new.
> --
> Richard MacDonald
> Punta Gorda, Florida
> 76 Edgemonte
> 94 K2500 6.5 Turbo Diesel Silverado
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: Battery issue [message #64570 is a reply to message #64477] |
Mon, 16 November 2009 19:56 |
idrob
Messages: 645
Registered: January 2005
Location: Central Idaho
Karma: 0
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| Oldngray wrote on Mon, 16 November 2009 09:46 |
In a earlier post I mentioned removing my buzz box and installing the Intellicharger. I tried starting the engine this morning and was greeted with a dead battery. The coach is on shore power and the little green light is blinking once every 5 or 6 seconds which tells me that it is in the maintenance mode. The house batteries are fully charged. I thought that all of the coach batteries were charged by shore power.
What did I do wrong in the installation to not have the engine battery being charged? All I did was disconnect the buzz box and used the same wires to hook up the new.
|
Aside from the question of how to use the PD to charge the engine battery, is why was it dead to begin with? Do you have some small load that is killing it? A check should be made to see if that is happening. Things like a radio which has electronic station keeping can do it over time. So can leaving things like the compartment lights on by accident. The engine battery should not run down by itself unless there is some load on it. I no longer own my GMC, but when I did, I could leave it over the winter and still start it in the spring without charging the battery. So, check that out while you are looking for things to do... LOL.
Rob Allen
former owner of '76 x-PB
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| Re: Battery issue [message #64573 is a reply to message #64570] |
Mon, 16 November 2009 20:21 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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""Aside from the question of how to use the PD to charge the engine battery, is why was it dead to begin with? Do you have some small load that is killing it? A check should be made to see if that is happening. Things like a radio which has electronic station keeping can do it over time. So can leaving things like the compartment lights on by accident. The engine battery should not run down by itself unless there is some load on it. I no longer own my GMC, but when I did, I could leave it over the winter and still start it in the spring without charging the battery. So, check that out while you are looking for things to do... LOL.""
It's interesting you say that. I have never worried about the house charger (in my case a 55 amp Iota) charging the cranking or chassis battery. My coach can sit for months without having to charge the chassis battery. However, the reverse cannot be said about the house batteries (4 6V golfcart units). Even when totally isolated they lose a significant charge in even a few weeks. I have a poor man's 1 way combiner that has worked well for my lifestyle. When the engine is running, a simple solenoid connects all batteries and when off, the coach batteries are isolated.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: Battery issue [message #64600 is a reply to message #64570] |
Tue, 17 November 2009 07:02 |
Oldngray
Messages: 544
Registered: August 2009
Location: Punta Gorda Florida
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Heh, don't need to look for things, they wave flags at ya. I am thinking that it is the Radio. Will experiment a bit.
Aside from the question of how to use the PD to charge the engine battery, is why was it dead to begin with? Do you have some small load that is killing it? A check should be made to see if that is happening. Things like a radio which has electronic station keeping can do it over time. So can leaving things like the compartment lights on by accident. The engine battery should not run down by itself unless there is some load on it. I no longer own my GMC, but when I did, I could leave it over the winter and still start it in the spring without charging the battery. So, check that out while you are looking for things to do... LOL.
[/quote]
Richard MacDonald
Punta Gorda, Florida
Sold our TZE April 2015
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| Re: Battery issue [message #64612 is a reply to message #64573] |
Tue, 17 November 2009 10:36 |
idrob
Messages: 645
Registered: January 2005
Location: Central Idaho
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Bob de Kruyff wrote on Mon, 16 November 2009 18:21 |
"
It's interesting you say that. I have never worried about the house charger (in my case a 55 amp Iota) charging the cranking or chassis battery. My coach can sit for months without having to charge the chassis battery. However, the reverse cannot be said about the house batteries (4 6V golfcart units). Even when totally isolated they lose a significant charge in even a few weeks. I have a poor man's 1 way combiner that has worked well for my lifestyle. When the engine is running, a simple solenoid connects all batteries and when off, the coach batteries are isolated.
|
Bob: same thing, you must have some small load somewhere that is pulling your house batteries down, or they themselves must have an issue if they are "totally isolated" and still lose a charge in a few weeks. I had an SOB that drove me nuts with this problem, I finally found that the automatic TV antenna motor system always drew current, even when the antenna was down, and the thing appeared to be off. It was not fully off, and the 60 mA draw, over time, would drag the house batteries down.
I would be glad to look with you for the problem, I am in the area again for the winter. I enjoyed our lunch with Chris last year.
Rob Allen
former owner of '76 x-PB
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| Re: [GMCnet] Battery issue [message #64619 is a reply to message #64573] |
Tue, 17 November 2009 12:16 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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one way to look for this load, is to:
remove the battery cable form that battery
put a test lamp between the battery and the cable
start removing fuses, wires, etc until the light goes out
here are some other hints
http://gmcmotorhome.info/chassis.html#leak
gene
On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 6:21 PM, Bob de Kruyff <NEXT2POOL@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> ""Aside from the question of how to use the PD to charge the engine
> battery, is why was it dead to begin with? Do you have some small load that
> is killing it? A check should be made to see if that is happening. Things
> like a radio which has electronic station keeping can do it over time. So
> can leaving things like the compartment lights on by accident. The engine
> battery should not run down by itself unless there is some load on it. I no
> longer own my GMC, but when I did, I could leave it over the winter and
> still start it in the spring without charging the battery. So, check that
> out while you are looking for things to do... LOL.""
>
> It's interesting you say that. I have never worried about the house charger
> (in my case a 55 amp Iota) charging the cranking or chassis battery. My
> coach can sit for months without having to charge the chassis battery.
> However, the reverse cannot be said about the house batteries (4 6V golfcart
> units). Even when totally isolated they lose a significant charge in even a
> few weeks. I have a poor man's 1 way combiner that has worked well for my
> lifestyle. When the engine is running, a simple solenoid connects all
> batteries and when off, the coach batteries are isolated.
>
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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