Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Ignition key won't go to start position
| [GMCnet] Ignition key won't go to start position [message #63441] |
Sun, 08 November 2009 09:42  |
KB
Messages: 1262
Registered: September 2009
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We've been working on brakes, airbags, etc, and have the rear
of the coach up on blocks for a few weeks now. Decided to start
the engine today, and.... can't. The key won't
turn to start it. It will go to accessory, lock, or on positions,
but not to start.
Any ideas on what could suddenly have failed in the ignition
switch while the coach is sitting up on blocks??
Very discouraging...
thanks,
Karen
1973 23' Canyonlands
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Karen
1975 26'
San Jose, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition key won't go to start position [message #63454 is a reply to message #63441] |
Sun, 08 November 2009 11:42  |
jayrabe
Messages: 509
Registered: June 2009
Location: Portland, OR
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The Sacramento coach I looked at this week had that problem. The current owner explained that you had to turn the key as far as it would go in the start position with normal force, then really crank on it to force it to turn just a bit farther until it started. I tried it and it worked, but it felt like I was going to bend or break the key off eventually by using that much force.
Jay "still searching" Rabe
> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 07:42:11 -0800
> From: kab7@sonic.net
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: [GMCnet] Ignition key won't go to start position
>
> We've been working on brakes, airbags, etc, and have the rear
> of the coach up on blocks for a few weeks now. Decided to start
> the engine today, and.... can't. The key won't
> turn to start it. It will go to accessory, lock, or on positions,
> but not to start.
>
> Any ideas on what could suddenly have failed in the ignition
> switch while the coach is sitting up on blocks??
>
> Very discouraging...
>
> thanks,
> Karen
> 1973 23' Canyonlands
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition key won't go to start position [message #63464 is a reply to message #63441] |
Sun, 08 November 2009 13:54 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
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Karen,
The switch itself is located on the steering column beneath the dash,
operated by a rod from the lock. Loosen the screws holding the switch and
move it with the key in the Start position to see if you can get the starter
to operate. If not, you'll probably have to remove the steering wheel. For
GMC MH specific instructions, see the article by Richard Sowers in the Tech
Pubs section at www.gmceast.com.
HTH,
Ken H.
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 10:42 AM, KB <kab7@sonic.net> wrote:
> ... The key won't
> turn to start it. It will go to accessory, lock, or on positions,
> but not to start.
> Karen
> 1973 23' Canyonlands
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition key won't go to start position [message #63484 is a reply to message #63441] |
Sun, 08 November 2009 17:04 |
David L Greenberg
Messages: 899
Registered: January 2004
Location: Port St Lucie, FL
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On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 07:42:11 -0800 KB <kab7@sonic.net> writes:
> We've been working on brakes, airbags, etc, and have the rear
> of the coach up on blocks for a few weeks now. Decided to start
> the engine today, and.... can't. The key won't
> turn to start it. It will go to accessory, lock, or on positions,
> but not to start.
>
Is the steering wheel locked? Turn the wheel one way or the other while
you trun the key.
David Lee Greenberg
Port St Lucie, FL
Dedicated to the Preservation of the Classic GMC Motorhome
http://GMCmhRegistry.com
48 Packard Super Eight http://www.picturetrail.com/gmcregistry
____________________________________________________________
Interior Design
The Art Institutes. Get info on the interior design program.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition key won't go to start position [message #63491 is a reply to message #63441] |
Sun, 08 November 2009 17:51 |
KB
Messages: 1262
Registered: September 2009
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> Karen,
>
> The switch itself is located on the steering column beneath the dash,
> operated by a rod from the lock. Loosen the screws holding the switch and
> move it with the key in the Start position to see if you can get the starter
> to operate. If not, you'll probably have to remove the steering wheel. For
> GMC MH specific instructions, see the article by Richard Sowers in the Tech
> Pubs section at www.gmceast.com.
>
> HTH,
>
> Ken H.
Thanks. I removed the screws on that switch and still can't
move the key to start. The more I manipulate the lock and key,
the worse it gets. It now will rarely budge out of the lock
position, and will no longer move to the accessory position.
Karen
1973 23' canyonlands that I'm very rapidly losing my enthusiasm for.
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Karen
1975 26'
San Jose, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition key won't go to start position [message #63499 is a reply to message #63441] |
Sun, 08 November 2009 18:46 |
KB
Messages: 1262
Registered: September 2009
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Oddly, the steering wheel doesn't lock, even with the key in "lock" position.
Since I also can't get it out of "park" in this state, I don't
know that it could be driven if it were somehow started. The lock is even
worse now after all my efforts, with much less mobility than earlier.
>
> On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 07:42:11 -0800 KB <kab7@sonic.net> writes:
>> > We've been working on brakes, airbags, etc, and have the rear
>> > of the coach up on blocks for a few weeks now. Decided to start
>> > the engine today, and.... can't. The key won't
>> > turn to start it. It will go to accessory, lock, or on positions,
>> > but not to start.
>> >
>
> Is the steering wheel locked? Turn the wheel one way or the other while
> you turn the key.
>
> David Lee Greenberg
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Karen
1975 26'
San Jose, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition key won't go to start position [message #63519 is a reply to message #63499] |
Sun, 08 November 2009 20:31 |
Kosier
Messages: 834
Registered: February 2008
Karma: 1
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Thump the key with the well-known "blunt object". You may have
some
stuck tumblers in the lock cylinder.
Gary Kosier
77EII & 77PB
Newark, Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: "KB" <kab7@sonic.net>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Ignition key won't go to start position
> Oddly, the steering wheel doesn't lock, even with the key in
> "lock" position.
> Since I also can't get it out of "park" in this state, I don't
> know that it could be driven if it were somehow started. The
> lock is even
> worse now after all my efforts, with much less mobility than
> earlier.
>
>>
>> On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 07:42:11 -0800 KB <kab7@sonic.net> writes:
>>> > We've been working on brakes, airbags, etc, and have the
>>> > rear
>>> > of the coach up on blocks for a few weeks now. Decided to
>>> > start
>>> > the engine today, and.... can't. The key won't
>>> > turn to start it. It will go to accessory, lock, or on
>>> > positions,
>>> > but not to start.
>>> >
>>
>> Is the steering wheel locked? Turn the wheel one way or the
>> other while
>> you turn the key.
>>
>> David Lee Greenberg
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition key won't go to start position [message #63540 is a reply to message #63452] |
Mon, 09 November 2009 06:24 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
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Karen,
Hold the shift lever in the park position (Firmly) and try the key.
If that fails, try giggling the shift lever while pushing in, and
turning the key.
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 10:05 AM, KB <kab7@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> Oye.
>> Try WD-40 and jiggling key.
>> Also try a different key if you have one.
>>
>> If all else fails then you might have to resort to this -
>> http://www.keybitslockandkey.com/losangeleslocksmith/manual/gm/gmlock.htm
>>
>
> Thanks for the pointer. I've tried all the keys, tapping, silicone spray,
> moving the tilt wheel, moving the shift lever to the amount possible... nothing.
>
> Is there a trick to removing the lock without disassembling the steering column??
> Or am I now going to have to find a steering wheel removal tool...
>
> Very frustrating...
>
> thanks,
> Karen
> 1973 23' Canyonlands
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition key won't go to start position [message #63558 is a reply to message #63441] |
Mon, 09 November 2009 10:06 |
KB
Messages: 1262
Registered: September 2009
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Tried thumping. Just seems to have made it worse since it won't move out of "lock" now :-(
Karen
1973 23' canyonlands patience remover
>
> Thump the key with the well-known "blunt object". You may have
> some
> stuck tumblers in the lock cylinder.
>
> Gary Kosier
> 77EII & 77PB
> Newark, Ohio
>> > Oddly, the steering wheel doesn't lock, even with the key in
>> > "lock" position.
>> > Since I also can't get it out of "park" in this state, I don't
>> > know that it could be driven if it were somehow started. The
>> > lock is even
>> > worse now after all my efforts, with much less mobility than
>> > earlier.
>> >
>>> >>
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Karen
1975 26'
San Jose, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition key won't go to start position [message #63563 is a reply to message #63558] |
Mon, 09 November 2009 10:50 |
Charles
Messages: 455
Registered: January 2004
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Have you tried disconnecting the Steering shaft lock rod from the
switch assembly where they connect together on the column under
the dash? If the key will turn when you have them disconnected
from each other the problem is in the Switch mechanism screwed
to the column. If the key won't rotate with them disconnected then the
problem is at the ignition key switch and you will need to remove
the steering wheel to get to the problem.
Look at picture in parts book on page 16-8 items 2 and 26.
Charles Wersal
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Charles Wersal
Duncanville, Texas
26 foot 1975 Glenbrook
Pandora's Box
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition key won't go to start position [message #63585 is a reply to message #63558] |
Mon, 09 November 2009 12:45 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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| KB wrote on Mon, 09 November 2009 08:06 |
Tried thumping. Just seems to have made it worse since it won't move out of "lock" now 
Karen
1973 23' canyonlands patience remover
|
Karen,
This might be a bit different from your problem, but you may be seeing the beginnings of what happened to our coach...
My '74 key quit at a dumping station with other folks behind me. I turned it to start and something let go. It had been hard to turn COuldn't get it out of park. Mine was slightly different in that the key rotated, but did nothing. It would unlock the steering, but it would not come out of park, turned on no power to dash or starter. It just flopped around.
I stood on my head and fiddled with the rod that goes into the ignition switch (on the column, down by your feet). Remember, I was blocking a dumping station thinking, we would have to lift the front of this thing to even get it out of the way. I got a hold on the little rod that goes into the the switch, and wiggled it around. TO be clear, I am wiggling the bottom of it, trying to free something up in the column. For unknown reasons, something went click up there and it came out of park. I was jerking on the shift lever as I wiggled. Then I worked it up with a pair of pliers and screwdriver. The heater fan came on! Kept pushing. Got it started. Drove it to a camp sight. At this point the shift lever had quit locking in park. The key still unlocks the steering. It needs a key but once the key is in, the switch turns as if it is connected to nothing, mainly because it is not.
Solution: I got home from that trip using a coat hanger bent to work the ignition switch. I put a piece of metal rod (actually it was an old cleaning rod from a 22 rifle) down next to the left of the steering column. Its round ring comes up just under the tilt lever. The bottom I bent into an L just like the original rod.
Pull it up a bit, and all the lights and goodies come on. Pull it up a bit more and the starter cranks. When it starts, let go of the ring and it returns to run.
Why do you drive around like that, George? Because when I started to work on the steering wheel at the top, it barfed out a potmetal gizmo at the bottom that was 1) broken and 2) bent. One look at that, and I thought... hmmm I could go to a junk yard and try to find one and then tear my column apart and try to install it. Or, I can use my rod.
So, once the piece got untangled in there, my key works but other than unlocking steering, it is usless. WHen driving I keep it clear over in the start position.
Dangers: 1) You can start my coach in drive. If someone steals it some day and runs into a tree and gets cut up, well, next time don't steal my coach. 2) If you are not careful, you can push the rod down too far when you shut down and leave the accessories on... runs down the battery. My solution for that is to turn on the heater fan for a second to make sure all is off. For some reason, I don't get dash telltales on in acc.
I think when I "fix" this, it will be with an entire new (different vehicle) steering column. In the meantime, it reminds me of my diesel tractor days... with a shut down rod to turn off the injectors.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition key won't go to start position [message #63606 is a reply to message #63441] |
Mon, 09 November 2009 16:20 |
KB
Messages: 1262
Registered: September 2009
Karma: 0
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Wow, George. That story alone makes it very nearly worthwhile to have suffered this problem. :-)
Counting my blessings now, I am glad it decided to break at home, and not say,
waiting in line to get off a ferry...
thanks!
Karen
1973 23' Patience Tester
> This might be a bit different from your problem, but you may be seeing the beginnings of what happened to our coach...
>
> My '74 key quit at a dumping station with other folks behind me. I turned it to start and something let go. It had been hard to turn COuldn't get it out of park. Mine was slightly different in that the key rotated, but did nothing. It would unlock the steering, but it would not come out of park, turned on no power to dash or starter. It just flopped around.
>
> I stood on my head and fiddled with the rod that goes into the ignition switch (on the column, down by your feet). Remember, I was blocking a dumping station thinking, we would have to lift the front of this thing to even get it out of the way. I got a hold on the little rod that goes into the the switch, and wiggled it around. TO be clear, I am wiggling the bottom of it, trying to free something up in the column. For unknown reasons, something went click up there and it came out of park. I was jerking on the shift lever as I wiggled. Then I worked it up with a pair of pliers and screwdriver. The heater fan came on! Kept pushing. Got it started. Drove it to a camp sight. At this point the shift lever had quit locking in park. The key still unlocks the steering. It needs a key but once the key is in, the switch turns as if it is connected to nothing, mainly because it is not.
>
> Solution: I got home from that trip using a coat hanger bent to work the ignition switch. I put a piece of metal rod (actually it was an old cleaning rod from a 22 rifle) down next to the left of the steering column. Its round ring comes up just under the tilt lever. The bottom I bent into an L just like the original rod.
>
> Pull it up a bit, and all the lights and goodies come on. Pull it up a bit more and the starter cranks. When it starts, let go of the ring and it returns to run.
>
> Why do you drive around like that, George? Because when I started to work on the steering wheel at the top, it barfed out a potmetal gizmo at the bottom that was 1) broken and 2) bent. One look at that, and I thought... hmmm I could go to a junk yard and try to find one and then tear my column apart and try to install it. Or, I can use my rod.
>
> So, once the piece got untangled in there, my key works but other than unlocking steering, it is usless. WHen driving I keep it clear over in the start position.
>
> Dangers: 1) You can start my coach in drive. If someone steals it some day and runs into a tree and gets cut up, well, next time don't steal my coach. 2) If you are not careful, you can push the rod down too far when you shut down and leave the accessories on... runs down the battery. My solution for that is to turn on the heater fan for a second to make sure all is off. For some reason, I don't get dash telltales on in acc.
>
> I think when I "fix" this, it will be with an entire new (different vehicle) steering column. In the meantime, it reminds me of my diesel tractor days... with a shut down rod to turn off the injectors.
> -- '74 Eleganza SE Best Wishes, George
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Karen
1975 26'
San Jose, CA
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