Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Aqueous Foam Fire Extinguishers
| [GMCnet] Aqueous Foam Fire Extinguishers [message #63059] |
Wed, 04 November 2009 07:24  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
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G’day,
Seems I might get lucky! There’s a company here in Sydney that lists Aqueous
Foam Fire Extinguishers on their website. They list two sizes 9 liter and
4.5 liter. I suspect the 4.5 liter will be a good size for the GMC.
As I understand it Kidde used to sell them in the USA and I was wondering if
someone that has one could please advise the dimensions (diameter and
height) and the capacity (quarts)?
Thanks,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Aqueous Foam Fire Extinguishers [message #63065 is a reply to message #63059] |
Wed, 04 November 2009 08:10  |
scott cowden
Messages: 170
Registered: February 2004
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> G’day,
>
> Seems I might get lucky! There’s a company here in Sydney that lists Aqueous
> Foam Fire Extinguishers on their website. They list two sizes 9 liter and
> 4.5 liter. I suspect the 4.5 liter will be a good size for the GMC.
>
> As I understand it Kidde used to sell them in the USA and I was wondering if
> someone that has one could please advise the dimensions (diameter and
> height) and the capacity (quarts)?
>
> Thanks,
> Rob Mueller
Rob;
I can't advise you on the dimensions, but after 30 years in the fire service I can tell you about fire extinguisher sizes and classifications.
In North America Fire Extinguishers have a fire rating assigned by Underwriters Laboratories, UL, but are also generically referred to by weight. The unit's i've seen on the 'net for use in GMC's are likely 5lb 'BC' extinguishers. Extinguishers are rated for the type of fire they will extinguish with a letter- A, B, C, etc and a number [1, 2, 3, etc] which is an indicator of the size of the fire they will effectively fight. For the detail oriented, the baseline rating 1A extinguisher will extinguish a 3 ft square fire of ordinary combustibles [wood, paper, etc]
A= Ordinary Combustibles-wood, paper, fabric, etc
B=Flammable liquids-gasoline, kerosene, alcohol, etc
C=Charged electrical circuits-these are conditions when the electricity is still flowing-the moment the power is off, the fire reverts to a different category, mostly A
Given our application, a multi purpose extinguisher rated 2A10BC is likely the best overall fit. This will work on pretty much anything on fire in the coach except burning metals, and if you've got that going on, get the heck out and call the pro's!
As for AFFF extinguishers [aquaceous film forming foam] I'm not sure that I'd use that on the coach and here's my reasoning:
Fire extinguishers work by breaking the link between the three things required to support combustion- Fuel, Oxygen and Heat.
Water, the most basic extinguisher, works by both cooling the fire and separating the fuel from oxygen.
AFFF works by separating the fuel from oxygen by forming a 'blanket' in between the two. works well on pools of liquid fuel like gas spills and such. It is a lot more difficult for AFFF to form this seal on uneven surfaces like the top of an engine block and is of little use on vertical surfaces or on the underside of horizontal ones.
With AFFF, there are also thermal storage issues- you can't let it freeze.
The next piece of advice is one I give to people that rather falls on deaf ears a lot of the time: The BEST thing anyone can do to deal with fire is to do the things necessary to PREVENT the fire from occuring. Once a fire has ignited, you've already lost and you're in 'damage control,' mode.
For GMC's and RV's in general this means maintenance procedures that protect fuel systems [gasoline and lpg to appliances] , electrical systems [DC and AC], and surprisingly for some, engine and appliance exhaust systems to minimize the potential for a malfunction.
I honest-to-god believe that if the proper level of inspection and maintenance is done, the chance of a fire is absolutely minimized. The number of vehicle fires NOT related to maintenance is pretty small.
Just my red-neck hose-monkey second-coffee musings for a Wednesday morning.
Cheers!
Scott '74 Glacier Orillia, ON, Canada
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| Re: [GMCnet] Aqueous Foam Fire Extinguishers [message #63134 is a reply to message #63065] |
Wed, 04 November 2009 14:58 |
Rick Denney
Messages: 430
Registered: January 2004
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scott cowden writes...
> As for AFFF extinguishers [aquaceous film forming foam] I'm not
> sure that I'd use that on the coach and here's my reasoning:
There was a considerable amount of discussion and research about this
a couple of years ago after Ken Burton had a fire in his coach. He
used several different types of extinguishers to battle the fire,
including both dry chemical and CO2. The CO2 extinguishers knocked
down the flame, but did not kill the combustion or cool the fire so
the flame returned as soon as the extinguisher was spent. The dry
chemical extinguished the flame, but caused so much corrosion that the
cost of repairs and cleanup was much more affected by the damage from
the extinguisher than from fire itself.
And "Mac the fire guy", who has been working the FMCA circuit putting
on demonstrations about fire safety, has been a big advocate of the
designer foam extinguishers that are classed as AFFF. The advantage to
the foam is that it cools the fire in addition to knocking down the
combustion, so that the fire does not re-ignite as soon as the oxygen
source is restored. The AFFF foam is also not corrosive.
Also, dry chemical extinguishers are prone to settling, and may not be
effective when the fire happens, if they sit for a period of years.
Kidde sold an AFFF "designer foam" extinguisher of similar size to a
5-pound dry chemical extinguisher.
I also recall that the foam includes an antifreeze, and that the
minimum storage temperature was well below freezing, but it still
should be brought in for the winter for folks who live up north.
Kidde's price for these was too high to compete with the cheapie
chemical extinguishers and they never effectively told their story to
justify the higher price, so they seem to have abandoned them as a
retail product.
To answer Rob's question: The Kidde foam extinguisher is about five
inches in diameter and maybe 15 inches tall (going from memory).
Rick "who put the extinguisher in the garage when winterizing" Denney
'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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| Re: [GMCnet] Aqueous Foam Fire Extinguishers [message #63139 is a reply to message #63134] |
Wed, 04 November 2009 15:36 |
scott cowden
Messages: 170
Registered: February 2004
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Keep in mind a couple of things, here. The size of the extinguisher,the agent used and the skill of the operator all impact the success of the fight. A 5 lb extinguisher, regardless of the agent, has pretty limited capabilities.
Talk to your local Fire Dept. and see if a fire ext. course is available in your area. This training is critical to your success using an extinguisher in the event of a fire.
It's true that Dry Chem extinguishers can be pretty corrosive if left on the area for more than a few hours after the fire is put out. If the area is hosed down after the fire [within a day or two], there is no corrosion from the agent as it's water soluble.
AFFF has been improved quite a bit over the years. The early stuff I worked with as a young fire fighter was protein-based and made from chicken feathers we were told. It could be VERY nasty. In my business, we buy foam in 5 gallon pails and the new stuff doesn't reek the way the old stuff did, but there's such a range of products that are all classed as AFFF that I couln't begin to tell you what some of the new stuff is made from.
BUt to debunk a myth or two:
Dry chemical fire extinguishers, which are mostly filled with Sodium Bicarbonate, do not 'cake' or pack down as previously thought. This is providing, of course, that the unit was properly handled during the filling process, of course, otherwise all bets are off. We used to regularly invert them to 'shake up' the agent but this was later shown in studies to be unnecessary.
Carbon Dioxide fire extinguishers do, in fact, extinguish fires by cooling. They also, as a side effect, provide some measure of oxygen removal, but only as long as a blanket of the gas is covering the surface of the fuel.
A concerted attack on a fire with a small extinguisher should be coordinated with the removal of the fuel source. I'm a big fan of the front mounted battery switch to depower the entire coach. Know where the shut off for the propane is located. Shut the coach ignition off. If you have an electric fuel pump, having its' operation tied to oil pressure [no oil pressure, no fuel pump] or some other measure so that it doesn't keep pumping in the event of an accident or other issue, is a good idea.
Key factors, all;
1. The best fire is one that never started- as I said earlier-do your maintenance, check all systems regularly and do the upkeep.
2. If you're not familiar with the operation of an extinguisher, don't use it. get out then dial 9-1-1.
3. If you discover a fire, raise the alarm before fighting the fire. Delaying the 9-1-1 call often greatly increases damage and risks to you.
4. Small extinguishers are just that-small. if the fire is large or threatens your means of escape, get out, then call 9-1-1.
5. Depower the affected systems as mentioned above as part of your fire fighting to help ensure the small extinguisher can do the rest.
Scott '74 Glacier Orillia, ON, Canada-where 'Every week is Fire Prevention Week"
> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 15:58:01 -0500
> From: rick@rickdenney.com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Aqueous Foam Fire Extinguishers
>
> scott cowden writes...
>
> > As for AFFF extinguishers [aquaceous film forming foam] I'm not
> > sure that I'd use that on the coach and here's my reasoning:
>
> There was a considerable amount of discussion and research about this
> a couple of years ago after Ken Burton had a fire in his coach. He
> used several different types of extinguishers to battle the fire,
> including both dry chemical and CO2. The CO2 extinguishers knocked
> down the flame, but did not kill the combustion or cool the fire so
> the flame returned as soon as the extinguisher was spent. The dry
> chemical extinguished the flame, but caused so much corrosion that the
> cost of repairs and cleanup was much more affected by the damage from
> the extinguisher than from fire itself.
>
> And "Mac the fire guy", who has been working the FMCA circuit putting
> on demonstrations about fire safety, has been a big advocate of the
> designer foam extinguishers that are classed as AFFF. The advantage to
> the foam is that it cools the fire in addition to knocking down the
> combustion, so that the fire does not re-ignite as soon as the oxygen
> source is restored. The AFFF foam is also not corrosive.
>
> Also, dry chemical extinguishers are prone to settling, and may not be
> effective when the fire happens, if they sit for a period of years.
>
> Kidde sold an AFFF "designer foam" extinguisher of similar size to a
> 5-pound dry chemical extinguisher.
>
> I also recall that the foam includes an antifreeze, and that the
> minimum storage temperature was well below freezing, but it still
> should be brought in for the winter for folks who live up north.
>
> Kidde's price for these was too high to compete with the cheapie
> chemical extinguishers and they never effectively told their story to
> justify the higher price, so they seem to have abandoned them as a
> retail product.
>
> To answer Rob's question: The Kidde foam extinguisher is about five
> inches in diameter and maybe 15 inches tall (going from memory).
>
> Rick "who put the extinguisher in the garage when winterizing" Denney
>
> '73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
> Northern Virginia
>
> _______________________________________________
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> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Aqueous Foam Fire Extinguishers [message #63194 is a reply to message #63134] |
Thu, 05 November 2009 07:04 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
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When I had the fire in the '55 a couple of months ago, the fuel fire
turned into an electrical and fuel fire. The dry chem extinguisher
(once I located it in my smoke filled garage) made quick work of
extinguishing the fire, and the fire in the carpet under the car.
But, as Ken Burton found out, it left one heckuva freaking mess. I am
still finding that darn powder everywhere in the garage and it took
well over a day to clean the car up enough to work on it.
The AFFF is not much more than an animal blood product, non corrosive
(you can even eat the stuff) and works well on most fires. Storage in
4 climates is the problem. I now have one of those extinguisher Dan
Gregg sells in each motorhome and will be much more careful in the
future with this new garbage we have to burn in our vehicles.
On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 1:58 PM, Rick Denney <rick@rickdenney.com> wrote:
> scott cowden writes...
>
>> As for AFFF extinguishers [aquaceous film forming foam] I'm not
>> sure that I'd use that on the coach and here's my reasoning:
>
> There was a considerable amount of discussion and research about this
> a couple of years ago after Ken Burton had a fire in his coach. He
> used several different types of extinguishers to battle the fire,
> including both dry chemical and CO2. The CO2 extinguishers knocked
> down the flame, but did not kill the combustion or cool the fire so
> the flame returned as soon as the extinguisher was spent. The dry
> chemical extinguished the flame, but caused so much corrosion that the
> cost of repairs and cleanup was much more affected by the damage from
> the extinguisher than from fire itself.
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Aqueous Foam Fire Extinguishers [message #63206 is a reply to message #63194] |
Thu, 05 November 2009 09:05 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Here is a link for RV Safety Systems. They have elaborate systems but also offer small rechargeable extinguishers. They also are on the RV show circuit, demonstrating their products, and driving a bus conversion.
http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/index.htm
Dennis Sexton
73 GMC
Germantown, TN
USA
-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Ferguson <botiemad11@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thu, Nov 5, 2009 7:04 am
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Aqueous Foam Fire Extinguishers
When I had the fire in the '55 a couple of months ago, the fuel fire
urned into an electrical and fuel fire. The dry chem extinguisher
once I located it in my smoke filled garage) made quick work of
xtinguishing the fire, and the fire in the carpet under the car.
ut, as Ken Burton found out, it left one heckuva freaking mess. I am
till finding that darn powder everywhere in the garage and it took
ell over a day to clean the car up enough to work on it.
The AFFF is not much more than an animal blood product, non corrosive
you can even eat the stuff) and works well on most fires. Storage in
climates is the problem. I now have one of those extinguisher Dan
regg sells in each motorhome and will be much more careful in the
uture with this new garbage we have to burn in our vehicles.
On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 1:58 PM, Rick Denney <rick@rickdenney.com> wrote:
scott cowden writes...
> As for AFFF extinguishers [aquaceous film forming foam] I'm not
> sure that I'd use that on the coach and here's my reasoning:
There was a considerable amount of discussion and research about this
a couple of years ago after Ken Burton had a fire in his coach. He
used several different types of extinguishers to battle the fire,
including both dry chemical and CO2. The CO2 extinguishers knocked
down the flame, but did not kill the combustion or cool the fire so
the flame returned as soon as the extinguisher was spent. The dry
chemical extinguished the flame, but caused so much corrosion that the
cost of repairs and cleanup was much more affected by the damage from
the extinguisher than from fire itself.
-
teve Ferguson
76 EII
ierra Vista, AZ
rethane bushing source
ww.bdub.net/ferguson/
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Aqueous Foam Fire Extinguishers [message #63547 is a reply to message #63206] |
Mon, 09 November 2009 07:53 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I too have been getting involved recently in fire suppression systems. Can't figure out if I am hearing more about it because I am aware more but man, it sure feels like there has been a spike in fires in RV's lately. probably it's more I've been watching and listening but the reality of it is we really need to address this.
Ralph from Fire Fight is here in my backyard in Melbourne and I have been spending much time with him and talking about this. He is very into the industry right now and has built custom for the GMC (because he has one) automatic systems for our engine, generator and frig areas. He has used Halon in the past mainly because it had been used with success in commercial & military application. He also set up a way to reclaim Halon to offer this pro stuff. The auto system he uses is really nice, very professional and the stuff works. It is cheaper than anything else you can do, does not screw the world the way the powder stuff does and hey, he's one of us so I support him. I also sell the systems and I gotta tell ya, after researching the internet (check it out), the cost of a big automatic Halon system for the motor at $225 is CHEAP!!!!!
Because Halon is going away now and the fact that technology is progressing, the AFFF he is using is the best he can find (and there are differences in AFFF types) I think for the application of the motor and generator, the AFFF is the way to go for the future. It will stay on the area, cool the heat source and does not invade the area and screw up everything the way the powder does. It is water soluable, does not corrode. It is automatic, when the compartment reaches a temp, the system popps off and the fire is handled.
A am jumping on the automatic fire suppression bandwagon big time starting the first of the year and you will have to hear me yell about this. Everyone with a motorhome needs an automatic fire suppression system in it-- in the motor, in the generator and in the firg area if it has LP. There are too many people I can tell you have been effected by fire-- we all have been playing games not looking at this. Scott Cowden is a professional firefighter-- he will tell you-- we all need this!
The new AFFF systems I feel will work best in the motor and generator, the Halon works very well too but I feel after a time, the Halon gas will dissipate in the more open compartments. Whatever, I do not feel the costic soda stuff is good for a motorhome, makes to much damage itself.
I have seen it first hand. I'm working with Ralph to offer soon a package of hand held AFFF and HFC-227 (the new Halon replacement product) for the inside of the coach, if you have to get protected in stages, that should be first. Then he will have the AFFF & HFC-227 systems packages for the engine, frig generator real soon.
Dan is our "man on the street" on fire suppression systems and we should support his efforts. next year automatic fire suppression will be the big push, there are no negatives-- heck you evevn get a discount on your instuance if you have an automatic fire suppression system in your coach. The only bugger is just getting it and I think no one can say you should not. Give me a call if you wanna do this, give Dan a call, call someone but you need to do something.
www.firefight1.com is where to go, also on the front page of my web site www.gmccoop.com
Jim Bounds
---------------------
----- Original Message ----
From: "dennisfsexton@aol.com" <dennisfsexton@aol.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thu, November 5, 2009 10:05:59 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Aqueous Foam Fire Extinguishers
Here is a link for RV Safety Systems. They have elaborate systems but also offer small rechargeable extinguishers. They also are on the RV show circuit, demonstrating their products, and driving a bus conversion.
http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/index.htm
Dennis Sexton
73 GMC
Germantown, TN
USA
-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Ferguson <botiemad11@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thu, Nov 5, 2009 7:04 am
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Aqueous Foam Fire Extinguishers
When I had the fire in the '55 a couple of months ago, the fuel fire
urned into an electrical and fuel fire. The dry chem extinguisher
once I located it in my smoke filled garage) made quick work of
xtinguishing the fire, and the fire in the carpet under the car.
ut, as Ken Burton found out, it left one heckuva freaking mess. I am
till finding that darn powder everywhere in the garage and it took
ell over a day to clean the car up enough to work on it.
The AFFF is not much more than an animal blood product, non corrosive
you can even eat the stuff) and works well on most fires. Storage in
climates is the problem. I now have one of those extinguisher Dan
regg sells in each motorhome and will be much more careful in the
uture with this new garbage we have to burn in our vehicles.
On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 1:58 PM, Rick Denney <rick@rickdenney.com> wrote:
scott cowden writes...
> As for AFFF extinguishers [aquaceous film forming foam] I'm not
> sure that I'd use that on the coach and here's my reasoning:
There was a considerable amount of discussion and research about this
a couple of years ago after Ken Burton had a fire in his coach. He
used several different types of extinguishers to battle the fire,
including both dry chemical and CO2. The CO2 extinguishers knocked
down the flame, but did not kill the combustion or cool the fire so
the flame returned as soon as the extinguisher was spent. The dry
chemical extinguished the flame, but caused so much corrosion that the
cost of repairs and cleanup was much more affected by the damage from
the extinguisher than from fire itself.
-
teve Ferguson
76 EII
ierra Vista, AZ
rethane bushing source
ww.bdub.net/ferguson/
______________________________________________
MCnet mailing list
ist Information and Subscription Options:
ttp://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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List Information and Subscription Options:
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List Information and Subscription Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Aqueous Foam Fire Extinguishers [message #63553 is a reply to message #63059] |
Mon, 09 November 2009 09:20 |
David L Greenberg
Messages: 899
Registered: January 2004
Location: Port St Lucie, FL
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 05:53:50 -0800 (PST) Jim Bounds <gmccoop@yahoo.com>
writes:
> I too have been getting involved recently in fire suppression
> systems. Can't figure out if I am hearing more about it because I
> am aware more but man, it sure feels like there has been a spike in
> fires in RV's lately. probably it's more I've been watching and
> listening but the reality of it is we really need to address this.
>
I learned just yesterday Ray Alden lost his Coca Cola model to an engine
fire. Insurance company paid off very generously on his Agreed Value
policy and declared the coach totalled.
He doesn't know the cause but Judy says she was behind him in the Bentley
(they were returning home from a Bentley show) and she saw smoke coming
from below the coach. I would guess tranny fluid catching fire but it
could have been something else.
I am trying to find out who the insurance co sold it to we we might be
able to get someone to diagnose the cause.
David Lee Greenberg
Port St Lucie, FL
Dedicated to the Preservation of the Classic GMC Motorhome
http://GMCmhRegistry.com
48 Packard Super Eight http://www.picturetrail.com/gmcregistry
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| Re: [GMCnet] Aqueous Foam Fire Extinguishers [message #63559 is a reply to message #63554] |
Mon, 09 November 2009 10:14 |
 |
ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Dennis,
Did the car ever "explode" or was it more of a continual burn. I may
be mistaken, but car explosions are the property of Hollywood, and
not reality. There was a video going around a year or so ago where a
fire company set a car on fire and let it burn just to illustrate the
characteristics of a car fire. The narration was very well done and
I wish I could find it to share, as I think it was extremely
informative. I don't remember how much fuel was in the thing, but
they were trying to replicate a real-world situation. That sucker
burned away, but the only "explosions" came from the tires as they
popped. Of course it didn't have a big bottle of propane on board...
It's good to know that I'm not driving a modern day Hindenburg!
I'm glad no one was injured.
Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
On Nov 9, 2009, at 7:32 AM, dennisfsexton@aol.com wrote:
>
> A close to home reminder -- but not a GMC -- as a passing car
> caught fire and burned across the street from our house yesterday.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=31512
>
>
> Dennis Sexton
> 73 GMC
> Germantown, TN
> USA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David L Greenberg <davegreenberg1@juno.com>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Mon, Nov 9, 2009 9:20 am
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Aqueous Foam Fire Extinguishers
>
>
>
>
> n Mon, 9 Nov 2009 05:53:50 -0800 (PST) Jim Bounds <gmccoop@yahoo.com>
> rites:
> I too have been getting involved recently in fire suppression
> systems. Can't figure out if I am hearing more about it because I
> am aware more but man, it sure feels like there has been a spike in
> fires in RV's lately. probably it's more I've been watching and
> listening but the reality of it is we really need to address this.
>
> learned just yesterday Ray Alden lost his Coca Cola model to an
> engine
> ire. Insurance company paid off very generously on his Agreed Value
> olicy and declared the coach totalled.
> He doesn't know the cause but Judy says she was behind him in the
> Bentley
> they were returning home from a Bentley show) and she saw smoke coming
> rom below the coach. I would guess tranny fluid catching fire but it
> ould have been something else.
> I am trying to find out who the insurance co sold it to we we might be
> ble to get someone to diagnose the cause.
>
> avid Lee Greenberg
> ort St Lucie, FL
> edicated to the Preservation of the Classic GMC Motorhome
> ttp://GMCmhRegistry.com
> 8 Packard Super Eight http://www.picturetrail.com/gmcregistry
> ___________________________________________________________
> edical Billing & Coding
> arn your medical billing and coding degree, 100% online! Enroll now.
> ttp://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=M1CZL-
> f8Yr8Mddng_19XvwAAJ1Csyv5OnZl2mKFYY98JLnqKAAQAAAAFAAAAAGDlkD4AAAMlAAAA
> AAAAAAAAAAAAAANiUQAAAAA=
> ______________________________________________
> MCnet mailing list
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>
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] Aqueous Foam Fire Extinguishers [message #63561 is a reply to message #63554] |
Mon, 09 November 2009 10:21 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Yes, Ray Aldens coach was one I was talking about. It seems like his was fueled by trans fluid. After climbing the bridge at the Intercoastal, the fire started-- thats when the most pressure would be in the trans. And yes, you have to seriously consider the second fire because of the heat source still being there. The foam the fire dept used is probably the stuff I'm talking about. That really is the way to go, it not only is water based which cools the heat source, it stays on the surface to help with thesecondary fire starting up.
We need to talk about this but after folks understand the issue do something about it. I hung a foam AFFF extinguisher on my Suzuki towd yesterday and will certainly have something with me from now on.
Guys, this really is important stuff!
Jim Bounds
--------------------------
----- Original Message ----
From: "dennisfsexton@aol.com" <dennisfsexton@aol.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Mon, November 9, 2009 10:32:37 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Aqueous Foam Fire Extinguishers
A close to home reminder -- but not a GMC -- as a passing car caught fire and burned across the street from our house yesterday.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=31512
Dennis Sexton
73 GMC
Germantown, TN
USA
-----Original Message-----
From: David L Greenberg <davegreenberg1@juno.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Mon, Nov 9, 2009 9:20 am
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Aqueous Foam Fire Extinguishers
n Mon, 9 Nov 2009 05:53:50 -0800 (PST) Jim Bounds <gmccoop@yahoo.com>
rites:
I too have been getting involved recently in fire suppression
systems. Can't figure out if I am hearing more about it because I
am aware more but man, it sure feels like there has been a spike in
fires in RV's lately. probably it's more I've been watching and
listening but the reality of it is we really need to address this.
learned just yesterday Ray Alden lost his Coca Cola model to an engine
ire. Insurance company paid off very generously on his Agreed Value
olicy and declared the coach totalled.
He doesn't know the cause but Judy says she was behind him in the Bentley
they were returning home from a Bentley show) and she saw smoke coming
rom below the coach. I would guess tranny fluid catching fire but it
ould have been something else.
I am trying to find out who the insurance co sold it to we we might be
ble to get someone to diagnose the cause.
avid Lee Greenberg
ort St Lucie, FL
edicated to the Preservation of the Classic GMC Motorhome
ttp://GMCmhRegistry.com
8 Packard Super Eight http://www.picturetrail.com/gmcregistry
___________________________________________________________
edical Billing & Coding
arn your medical billing and coding degree, 100% online! Enroll now.
ttp://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=M1CZL-f8Yr8Mddng_19XvwAAJ1Csyv5OnZl2mKFYY98JLnqKAAQAAAAFAAAAAGDlkD4AAAMlAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANiUQAAAAA=
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MCnet mailing list
ist Information and Subscription Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Aqueous Foam Fire Extinguishers [message #63566 is a reply to message #63559] |
Mon, 09 November 2009 11:03 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Larry,
No explosion -- but the flames were quite impressive. Even with the fog nozzle the fire dept was using the flames would flare up substantially.At several points the gas would run down the street, igniting the falen leaves as it went.
Watching them axe the trunk and hood open was also impressive.
This was "her car" and the husband said -- "my Porsche did this same thing about 20 months ago"
Dennis Sexton
73 GMC
Germantown, TN
USA
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Davick <ljdavick@comcast.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Mon, Nov 9, 2009 10:14 am
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Aqueous Foam Fire Extinguishers
Dennis,
Did the car ever "explode" or was it more of a continual burn. I may
e mistaken, but car explosions are the property of Hollywood, and
ot reality. There was a video going around a year or so ago where a
ire company set a car on fire and let it burn just to illustrate the
haracteristics of a car fire. The narration was very well done and
wish I could find it to share, as I think it was extremely
nformative. I don't remember how much fuel was in the thing, but
hey were trying to replicate a real-world situation. That sucker
urned away, but the only "explosions" came from the tires as they
opped. Of course it didn't have a big bottle of propane on board...
It's good to know that I'm not driving a modern day Hindenburg!
I'm glad no one was injured.
Larry Davick
he Mystery Machine
On Nov 9, 2009, at 7:32 AM, dennisfsexton@aol.com wrote:
>
A close to home reminder -- but not a GMC -- as a passing car
caught fire and burned across the street from our house yesterday.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=31512
Dennis Sexton
73 GMC
Germantown, TN
USA
-----Original Message-----
From: David L Greenberg <davegreenberg1@juno.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Mon, Nov 9, 2009 9:20 am
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Aqueous Foam Fire Extinguishers
n Mon, 9 Nov 2009 05:53:50 -0800 (PST) Jim Bounds <gmccoop@yahoo.com>
rites:
I too have been getting involved recently in fire suppression
systems. Can't figure out if I am hearing more about it because I
am aware more but man, it sure feels like there has been a spike in
fires in RV's lately. probably it's more I've been watching and
listening but the reality of it is we really need to address this.
learned just yesterday Ray Alden lost his Coca Cola model to an
engine
ire. Insurance company paid off very generously on his Agreed Value
olicy and declared the coach totalled.
He doesn't know the cause but Judy says she was behind him in the
Bentley
they were returning home from a Bentley show) and she saw smoke coming
rom below the coach. I would guess tranny fluid catching fire but it
ould have been something else.
I am trying to find out who the insurance co sold it to we we might be
ble to get someone to diagnose the cause.
avid Lee Greenberg
ort St Lucie, FL
edicated to the Preservation of the Classic GMC Motorhome
ttp://GMCmhRegistry.com
8 Packard Super Eight http://www.picturetrail.com/gmcregistry
___________________________________________________________
edical Billing & Coding
arn your medical billing and coding degree, 100% online! Enroll now.
ttp://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=M1CZL-
f8Yr8Mddng_19XvwAAJ1Csyv5OnZl2mKFYY98JLnqKAAQAAAAFAAAAAGDlkD4AAAMlAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAANiUQAAAAA=
______________________________________________
MCnet mailing list
ist Information and Subscription Options:
ttp://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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MCnet mailing list
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Aqueous Foam Fire Extinguishers [message #63574 is a reply to message #63547] |
Mon, 09 November 2009 11:33 |
Rick Denney
Messages: 430
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
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Jim Bounds writes...
> I too have been getting involved recently in fire suppression
> systems. Can't figure out if I am hearing more about it because I
> am aware more but man, it sure feels like there has been a spike in
> fires in RV's lately. probably it's more I've been watching and
> listening but the reality of it is we really need to address this.
Some thoughts:
1. For Rob, my Kidde AFFF "designer foam" extinguisher is 2 liters,
and is rated 7A80B. For electrical fires (the C rating), yank the
shore power cable and then it's an A (stuff that burns) or B (fuel)
fire.
2. All the aqueous foam materials I've seen have a minimum storage
temperature to avoid freezing so hard that it damages the system. Jim,
as you explore this, make sure the stuff you find will work where
temps go below 0. For a portable that we carry in the coach, we can
pull it out and put it in the garage during winter storage. But for an
integrated automatic system, that isn't a convenient option. Or is it?
3. If there was a reasonably priced automatic AFFF system for the
engine compartment, I would buy it.
4. Squirrels and other rodents eat fuel lines. They particularly seem
to like brand new ones. I drove my Toyota truck all the way to
Baltimore with a fuel line dribbling gasoling onto fron suspension,
where it didn't do any harm (with some luck, of course). The lines on
the top of my other Toyota truck were also eaten, and you all know
about the issues I've had on the coach. Part of this equation is
protecting fuel lines from rodent damage. I'm usign stainless-braid
fuel lines, and though I don't think that would stop a determined
squirrel, it has at least prevented more damage from field mice. It is
a miracle none of our problems with "rural rodents" has caused a more
serious problem.
5. Transmission coolant lines to rust out and break, and tranny fluid
is flammable. That's another source. That hasn't happened to me. I
replaced mine with stainless lines from Tom Hampton.
6. Float valves that don't seal will cause fuel to spill over the top
of the engine. This is a Bad Thing. And, yes, it's happened to me.
Rick "who worries about this with reason" Denney
'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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'73 Glacier 230 "Jaws"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Aqueous Foam Fire Extinguishers [message #63656 is a reply to message #63574] |
Tue, 10 November 2009 06:38 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
|
|
To your remarks:
2. All the aqueous foam materials I've seen have a minimum storage
temperature to avoid freezing so hard that it damages the system. Jim,
as you explore this, make sure the stuff you find will work where
temps go below 0. For a portable that we carry in the coach, we can
pull it out and put it in the garage during winter storage. But for an
integrated automatic system, that isn't a convenient option. Or is it?
3. If there was a reasonably priced automatic AFFF system for the
engine compartment, I would buy it.
Dude, don't go places where it's that cold! The best way to winterize your coach is to fill the gas tank and drive it south! That said, I'm sorry I live down here for a good reason. The automatic "Fire Fight" systems can be removed without much trouble. Thats one of the things I like about them-- it is a totally self contained sysyem, no wires or anything. The new AFFF remote mounted system will have incorporated a really high quality shut off valve where you can actually remove the tank without discharging it! The systems with the head built in will have no problem removing them.
No wires, I feel a safety system needs to do it's job with as few associated controls and wires as possible. Some of the automatic systems do all sorts of reporting on conditions-- heck you will know when you get a fire and what you want is for it to be put out. Each fire bottle has a heat strip so you can find out how hot it got. For "wow" effect it's good info but hey, I don;t care as long as the system put the fire out!
Most artivles on the internet say you should expect to pay up to $2500 for a good automatic fire suppressuion system-- the current all Halon automatc system from Fire Fight is only $225, the AFFF system will be under $400 and it will do the job right now! With the fact that your insurance folks will snile and give you a discount if you install one of these, I mean it is a positive economic move on many fronts!
If well diggers are scattering because of the cold, man thats just too cold to be there-- go somewhere else. Don;t subject your baby to such conditions. Don't say I did not protect my investment because it was too cold! Come on down here, your fire extinguishers will not freeze-- just another reason to live in paradise!
Jim Bounds
------------------------------
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| Re: [GMCnet] Aqueous Foam Fire Extinguishers [message #63671 is a reply to message #63656] |
Tue, 10 November 2009 09:46 |
Rick Denney
Messages: 430
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Jim Bounds writes...
> If well diggers are scattering because of the cold, man thats just
> too cold to be there-- go somewhere else. Don;t subject your baby
> to such conditions. Don't say I did not protect my investment
> because it was too cold! Come on down here, your fire extinguishers
> will not freeze-- just another reason to live in paradise!
Making the tank (at least) easily removeable by, say, use of a
hand-operated clip would solve the winter storage problem well enough.
There are already too many people in Florida, and too difficult to
work with agencies likely to be my client. I'm a registered engineer
in Florida because the company I worked (and work) for thought it was
the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Alas that is not the case,
except maybe for those in the RV biz.
So, I'll muddle along up here in four-season land. Given the number of
similarly afflicted GMC owners, a system that can survive winter
storage will substantially increase the market for it.
Rick "knowing that some would rather live under a bridge and be in
Florida, but not one of them" Denney
'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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| Re: [GMCnet] Aqueous Foam Fire Extinguishers [message #63677 is a reply to message #63671] |
Tue, 10 November 2009 10:17 |
GMC_LES
Messages: 569
Registered: October 2009
Location: Montreal
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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JimB,
Don't forget about us Canucks!
YES we choose to live in the cold with our GMCs, and YES we would love to
live in a warmer climate. The reality is that we are situated in the great
white north AND we need fire protection just as much as the rest of you
lucky B*st**ds to the south! ;) Some of us even use our coaches in the cold!
I will be investing in some sort of fire protection and the system will need
to withstand freezing temps. I cannot be sure to get to the bottles to
remove them before the cold hits. We typically have winterization chores to
do around the home before things freeze. The RV is just one of them. Being
that most of the automatic fire fighting systems are hidden behind access
panels, it would be very easy to forget them, especially for those of us
with CRS.
Regarding both the Halon and AAAF systems currently recommended for the GMC,
what is the lowest safe storage temp and what is the max temp that the
automatic systems release at?
Thanks,
Les Burt
Montreal
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Rick Denney
Sent: November 10, 2009 10:46 AM
To: Jim Bounds
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Aqueous Foam Fire Extinguishers
Jim Bounds writes...
> If well diggers are scattering because of the cold, man thats just
> too cold to be there-- go somewhere else. Don;t subject your baby
> to such conditions. Don't say I did not protect my investment
> because it was too cold! Come on down here, your fire extinguishers
> will not freeze-- just another reason to live in paradise!
Making the tank (at least) easily removeable by, say, use of a
hand-operated clip would solve the winter storage problem well enough.
There are already too many people in Florida, and too difficult to
work with agencies likely to be my client. I'm a registered engineer
in Florida because the company I worked (and work) for thought it was
the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Alas that is not the case,
except maybe for those in the RV biz.
So, I'll muddle along up here in four-season land. Given the number of
similarly afflicted GMC owners, a system that can survive winter
storage will substantially increase the market for it.
Rick "knowing that some would rather live under a bridge and be in
Florida, but not one of them" Denney
'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress
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