Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Promoting the GMC
| [GMCnet] Promoting the GMC [message #61166] |
Thu, 22 October 2009 11:36  |
fbhtxak
Messages: 191
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Bill,
Excellent, realistic assessment of the market for GMCMhs... 'Same for many
other "special interest" vehicles.
My observation is that many prospective buyers will seek out "top tier"
vehicles but they aren't willing to pay the owner's cost of putting them
into "top tier" condition. If I were seeking to buy a GMCMh, I would do just
that (and did that when buying our Royale in early'90s). My philosophy is
that buyers/owners of special interest vehicles, including GMCMhs, should
buy/renovate the vehicle for their enjoyment with little concern for future
market worth. 'Just my opinion...
Fred Hudspeth
'78 Royale - Tyler, TX
'82 Airstream Excella 28'Motorhome, Anchorage, AK
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill Bryant
Sent: Thursday, 22 October 2009 5:49 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Promoting the GMC
If I may butt in here for another opinion no one asked for :)
Question- what are we really trying to do here, get the attention of
potential GMC MH owners, or supply really nice pictures of GMCs on a
calendar (not disputing pretty GMCs on a calendar are nice....but to what
purpose).
Focus - Lets be careful to focus on the interests of potential owners (which
may or may not necessarily reflect our own interests).
Who are they - many years of contacts with GMC wantabees tells me that most
are "car guys & gals" like to travel, like classic looks & unique mechanical
vehicles.
Where do you find these people - car shows, cruise ins, RV events.
What have I participated in this year - Vintage RV gathering at Saratoga
Springs, NY, cruise ins, Antique auto flea market/car show (Hershey).
What do I do to interest lookers - Always open house, post general GMC
info on coach (some people don't want to ask) GMCers.org brochures, provide
links for information, provide more information and answer more questions
than you could ever imagine.
At the AACA Hershey car show/flea market there were between 20 & 30 GMCs
there. Some were doggy flea market vending units, some were very nice
coaches. With 9,000 flea market spots vending car stuff & 1,000 show cars &
another 1,000 Antique/Classic cars for sale here is exposure that couldn't
be better. I know I had many contacts, even many of those that passed by
without stopping, you could see the admiration for the GMC as they carefully
looked it over in passing.
Now the part that I or no one likes to hear.
We have been extremely fortunate that the survivorship of these great GMC
Motorhomes has been so high.
There is however I believe a down side. With the aging of vehicles and
ownership we now have a surplus of vehicles when compared to future
ownership. Suvivorship has now created a supply that has exceeded and will
continue to exceed market demand. We may minimized this with an effort to
find new owners, but being realistic, there are just too many GMCs out
there. For the poorer examples I believe that means many will be used as
parts (good as parts supply, sad to see the thinning of complete coaches).
The nice ones will survive and become even more desireable , many of the the
poorer ones will become parts.
Just my opinion.
--
Bill Bryant
1976~PB
1914 Ford
1965 Corvette
GMC MH History CD
GMC Showroom Films DVD
http://bdub.net/billbryant/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Promoting the GMC [message #61180 is a reply to message #61166] |
Thu, 22 October 2009 16:50  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Fred,
As the Aussies say "spot on Mate!"
When I was based in Hong Kong I built custom Harley Davidson's for guys
there in my spare time. The FIRST thing I would tell them is that they WOULD
NOT get what they spent back when they sold it!
There has been banter on the net from time to time vis-à-vis the GMC being
an "investment." IMHO it's not an investment it's a toy!
Investments are:
Bank accounts
Mutual funds
Stocks
Bonds
CD's
Real estate
Etc.
Yeah I know classic cars could be added to the list but if you think that
the GMC falls in that league I think you're deluding yourself! Does anyone
know anyone who, after selling their GMC, made the statement "I sold my GMC
for more than I had in it." If you do please tell me who it was so I can
find out their secret!
I bought six 1949-1951 MK V Jaguar Saloon cars in the 1980's when I was
based in Australia as a field rep for Hamilton Standard. My plan was to
restore them and sell them as I was SURE they would go up in value. Well I
was wrong! You can buy a complete MK V for about the same price I paid for
them twenty odd years ago plus the cost to restore one nowadays is more than
the market value! :-(
To me the value of a GMC is the in fun I have had working on them, the tours
Helen and I have taken in the USA, and the people we have come to know
through owning one!
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Fred Hudspeth
Sent: Friday, 23 October 2009 3:37 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Promoting the GMC
Bill,
Excellent, realistic assessment of the market for GMCMhs... 'Same for many
other "special interest" vehicles.
My observation is that many prospective buyers will seek out "top tier"
vehicles but they aren't willing to pay the owner's cost of putting them
into "top tier" condition. If I were seeking to buy a GMCMh, I would do just
that (and did that when buying our Royale in early'90s). My philosophy is
that buyers/owners of special interest vehicles, including GMCMhs, should
buy/renovate the vehicle for their enjoyment with little concern for future
market worth. 'Just my opinion...
Fred Hudspeth
'78 Royale - Tyler, TX
'82 Airstream Excella 28'Motorhome, Anchorage, AK
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Promoting the GMC [message #61204 is a reply to message #61180] |
Thu, 22 October 2009 18:44 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Thu, 22 October 2009 17:50 |
Fred,
As the Aussies say "spot on Mate!"
When I was based in Hong Kong I built custom Harley Davidson's for guys there in my spare time. The FIRST thing I would tell them is that they WOULD NOT get what they spent back when they sold it!
There has been banter on the net from time to time vis-à-vis the GMC being an "investment." IMHO it's not an investment it's a toy!
Investments are:
Bank accounts
Mutual funds
Stocks
Bonds
CD's
Real estate
<snip>
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Rob,
Maybe they once were, but in the current world, I have to disagree (based entirely on some painful personal experience):
Bank accounts - now pay way less than the rate of inflation
Mutual funds - are impossible to gage because each is different
Stocks - may become worthless overnight (like GM)
Bonds - Federal problematic, municipal may fail because of declining real estate values
CD's - see bank accounts
Real estate - not around here(MI), maybe in OZ - I can't sell my holdings for what I owe - let alot the equity I held two years ago.
At least I can move into the coach when I walk away from everything I own in this state.
They say it will come back - Right
Just like the mills of New Bedford or the mines of West Virginia (I'm not gonna hold my breath and wait).
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Promoting the GMC [message #61211 is a reply to message #61204] |
Thu, 22 October 2009 19:04 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Matt,
Guess I should have prefaced investments are with "In theory!"
Sorry to hear of your pain but how about a guy whose "investments" are all
in the USA that retires to Australia when the exchange rate is $1.00 AUD =
$0.55 USD. Today it's $1.00 AUD = $0.91 USD!
As my Dad used to say; "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer!"
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Matt Colie
Sent: Friday, 23 October 2009 10:45 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Promoting the GMC
Rob,
Maybe they once were, but in the current world, I have to disagree (based
entirely on some painful personal experience):
Bank accounts - now pay way less than the rate of inflation
Mutual funds - are impossible to gage because each is different
Stocks - may become worthless overnight (like GM)
Bonds - Federal problematic, municipal may fail because of declining real
estate values
CD's - see bank accounts
Real estate - not around here(MI), maybe in OZ - I can't sell my holdings
for what I owe - let alot the equity I held two years ago.
At least I can move into the coach when I walk away from everything I own in
this state.
They say it will come back - Right
Just like the mills of New Bedford or the mines of West Virginia (I'm not
gonna hold my breath and wait).
--
Matt & Mary Colie
'73 Glacier 23 Chaumiere (say show-me-air)
SE Michigan
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GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
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List Information and Subscription Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Promoting the GMC [message #61263 is a reply to message #61166] |
Fri, 23 October 2009 07:56 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Fred,
You are right on with your comment. I have a larger number of potential buyers looking for "nicve" coaches at bargain prices. They cannot find them at the prices they think they should pay (they have listened too much to people why say you should be able to buy a nice coach for under $20,000). When I discuss what it would take to actually bring a coach up to their unrealistic expectations they are shocked at what that costs.
Right now, reality does not meet expectations. The value of doing this work most are not understanding and the ones that do though have been looking at "SOB's" and recognize the value. This is how I weed out those that "get it".
People are looking for more than a good condition, well maintained original coach. They want it all and with the way the economy is they feel they can get it really cheap! In some cases they might but usually the coaches that are out there do not fit their need. I have a coach on my lot for $8000 than with a little work can be awesome-- I do not have the $ it needs to get it to that level and with most people not able to see the potential in their minds eye-- the coach is sitting here!
$10-20,000 coaches would sell if they were what people want, the customers are out there but like I said they are looking for more than is possible at the price.
Jim Bounds
------------------------
----- Original Message ----
From: Fred Hudspeth <fbhtxak@sbcglobal.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thu, October 22, 2009 12:36:56 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] Promoting the GMC
Bill,
Excellent, realistic assessment of the market for GMCMhs... 'Same for many
other "special interest" vehicles.
My observation is that many prospective buyers will seek out "top tier"
vehicles but they aren't willing to pay the owner's cost of putting them
into "top tier" condition. If I were seeking to buy a GMCMh, I would do just
that (and did that when buying our Royale in early'90s). My philosophy is
that buyers/owners of special interest vehicles, including GMCMhs, should
buy/renovate the vehicle for their enjoyment with little concern for future
market worth. 'Just my opinion...
Fred Hudspeth
'78 Royale - Tyler, TX
'82 Airstream Excella 28'Motorhome, Anchorage, AK
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill Bryant
Sent: Thursday, 22 October 2009 5:49 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Promoting the GMC
If I may butt in here for another opinion no one asked for :)
Question- what are we really trying to do here, get the attention of
potential GMC MH owners, or supply really nice pictures of GMCs on a
calendar (not disputing pretty GMCs on a calendar are nice....but to what
purpose).
Focus - Lets be careful to focus on the interests of potential owners (which
may or may not necessarily reflect our own interests).
Who are they - many years of contacts with GMC wantabees tells me that most
are "car guys & gals" like to travel, like classic looks & unique mechanical
vehicles.
Where do you find these people - car shows, cruise ins, RV events.
What have I participated in this year - Vintage RV gathering at Saratoga
Springs, NY, cruise ins, Antique auto flea market/car show (Hershey).
What do I do to interest lookers - Always open house, post general GMC
info on coach (some people don't want to ask) GMCers.org brochures, provide
links for information, provide more information and answer more questions
than you could ever imagine.
At the AACA Hershey car show/flea market there were between 20 & 30 GMCs
there. Some were doggy flea market vending units, some were very nice
coaches. With 9,000 flea market spots vending car stuff & 1,000 show cars &
another 1,000 Antique/Classic cars for sale here is exposure that couldn't
be better. I know I had many contacts, even many of those that passed by
without stopping, you could see the admiration for the GMC as they carefully
looked it over in passing.
Now the part that I or no one likes to hear.
We have been extremely fortunate that the survivorship of these great GMC
Motorhomes has been so high.
There is however I believe a down side. With the aging of vehicles and
ownership we now have a surplus of vehicles when compared to future
ownership. Suvivorship has now created a supply that has exceeded and will
continue to exceed market demand. We may minimized this with an effort to
find new owners, but being realistic, there are just too many GMCs out
there. For the poorer examples I believe that means many will be used as
parts (good as parts supply, sad to see the thinning of complete coaches).
The nice ones will survive and become even more desireable , many of the the
poorer ones will become parts.
Just my opinion.
--
Bill Bryant
1976~PB
1914 Ford
1965 Corvette
GMC MH History CD
GMC Showroom Films DVD
http://bdub.net/billbryant/
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Promoting the GMC [message #61271 is a reply to message #61180] |
Fri, 23 October 2009 08:41 |
bryant374
Messages: 563
Registered: May 2004
Location: Pleasant Valley, NY 12569
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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snip
>
To me the value of a GMC is the in fun I have had working on them, the tours
Helen and I have taken in the USA, and the people we have come to know
through owning one!
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
>
For those of you that haven't been there, this says it all!
Bill Bryant
PO 1976~PB (owned 34 years)
1914 Ford (owned 70 years)
1965 Corvette (owned 39 years)
GMC Motorhome History
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| Re: [GMCnet] Promoting the GMC [message #61299 is a reply to message #61271] |
Fri, 23 October 2009 11:28 |
nchapekis
Messages: 165
Registered: February 2004
Location: Ypsilanti, MI
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| bryant374 wrote on Fri, 23 October 2009 09:41 |
There is however I believe a down side. With the aging of vehicles and ownership we now have a surplus of vehicles when compared to future ownership. Suvivorship has now created a supply that has exceeded and will continue to exceed market demand. We may minimize this with an effort to find new owners, but being realistic, there are just too many GMCs out there.
|
It's too bad that there are not more offspring of GMC owners interested in these coaches. There are, of course, some cases of this, but would seem that those that grew up with GMCs as kids don't have much appreciation for the uniqueness of these motorhomes. I don't think that's really the case. Actually, I think most current owners purchased their coaches after their kids were grown, many just in time for retirement. It remains to be seen, therefore, if new retirees will continue to see the cost, design, and social advantages of GMC ownership. The problem is, as time goes on, the recollection of these coaches when new is fading. That's why promotion is so important.
Nick Chapekis
Ypsilanti, MI
former owner - 78 Kingsley
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| Re: [GMCnet] Promoting the GMC [message #61302 is a reply to message #61299] |
Fri, 23 October 2009 12:46 |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164
Registered: September 2009
Location: East NC
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Do we have to be that pesamistic?
It's about reaching the right people. How many new bodies do we need to buy up every viable coach in need of restoration?
A few hundred?
Go shop for a usable motohome under $5k- meet the people in that realm. There are young, mechanically savvy, people with more skill than money who would be willing to buy a 20 yo SOB and spend a pile of money and time to make it decent (mostly fixing leaks) knowing it will continue to depreciate faster than they can put gas in it.
Meanwhile, that same guy could buy a $5000 GMC and put forth the same effort and while he'll never see all his money back, he will have something worth keeping.
We just need to find that guy and show him the math.
Where is that guy now? - he's scouring craigslist, negotiating with his wife and lusting after motorhomes when he takes the family to camping in the popup. And occasionally he goes to an RV trade show.
And while he's on cragslist he sees a GMC for $6K and can't figure out why the other 1974 MH- (Winnebego Brave) is listed in the same relative condition for $1200.
The GMC seller uses words like, 'Classic', 'collectable' 'restoration', which in Craigslist vernacular is often code for CRAP
dave
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Promoting the GMC Long Reply [message #61329 is a reply to message #61302] |
Fri, 23 October 2009 16:01 |
russmehl
Messages: 22
Registered: September 2009
Location: Rochester, Michigan
Karma: 0
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Dave has pretty well nailed my demographics, except maybe the younger part. 
I bought a GMC because:
1. Improved financial situation
2. Style and handling
3. Body construction
The Story:
In 2005, I wanted to pull a 2000# trailer to a 4x4 meet in Colorado. An RV seemed the right answer. I went looking at newer Class C's and got the price fright. Turned to Ebay, discovered the Vixen. Entry price and towing ability squashed that. Looked at GMC's, either absolute junk or way out of my range. I bought a '72 Brave with a 318 ($1500) and began my education. Learned to repair roof leaks. Decided the 318 wasn't big enough. Back to Ebay and found a '76 Brave ($1526). Rubber roof, working Onan, low miles. No dinette, windows leak, all the tanks leak, manifolds cracked. Steering box leaks. Got most of it "fixed" before we left. It has done a passable job of hauling us around for the last 4 years. But the body is getting pin holes and the wood is rotting.
I stored the Brave across the aisle from a restored GMC for two years, and that fueled the latent GMC virus in my blood.
One night I went to Ebay, to "check" the RV market. A Vixen auction to watch, couple of GMC's caught my eye. I kept coming back to one that claimed all the mechanical work had been done. And then it started keeping me awake at night... So I bought it.
I've lived in spittin' distance of Pontiac, MI most of my life. I suspect that local knowledge has an influence on my RV choices... so I was an easy convert.
and my first "drivable" car was a Corvair!
Russ & Linda Mehlenbacher
Rochester Hills, Michigan
'76 Eleganza
'74 Sequoia
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| Re: [GMCnet] Promoting the GMC [message #61539 is a reply to message #61302] |
Sun, 25 October 2009 07:45 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Dave,
I have not read all of this thread but all you are talking about is nothing new for me, I field questions from prospective owners all the time. Yes, many are figuring this out but there are many that though their heart is in the right place right next to their tool box they just cannot get their arms around what it really takes to bring back a 30+ year old machine. You just cannot patch it day after day and expect to have a machine you can get up on the highway andf rely upon. Also, rigging a GMC many times just does not work well, when there is a problem with something you just need to spend the time and bucks to fix it right and that is not possible for many.
I had a guy that was given a Revcon when the brakes failed in his front yard. His brother said "keep it" and bummed a ride home. He limped it over to me where I called around for a new master cylinder-- a new brake master for a GMC is not over $100, a rebuilt brake master for that Revcon was over $500 from thier specialty supplier-- I told him he was smoking good stuff and started hunting-- I found it for @$250 but still that choked they guy. He just did not have the $ to fix it right. I did get the master but the same specialty supplier wanter @$400 for a good used brake drum so I just scuffed up what he had and that was it. The brakes still sucked but he did have some. That is sad-- there are many out there that simply cannot fund a motorhome--- they are not cheap, they are a luxury unless you are living in it and if thats true you probably still do not have the bucks to fix the ole girl up right.
No, you hit a nail square when you said there are more coaches out there than folks looking for them right now. It is a buyers market which means the sale prices wiull be low. Of course that does not mean the cost or working on them drops-- labor costs, people have to eat, mechanics have to buy tools and parts must be paid for. So folks buy a basket case really cheap ($3000) then freak out when it costs more than that to just do the basic maintenance stuff everyone should do when a coach is purchased (tires, brake check, baseline on fluids, motor freshen up, fuel tank hoses, etc). If someone purchases a $3000 motorhome and expects to drive it home-- well, they are standing out there on that thin limb with me trying to pay the bills messing with these things!
Feaks me out when a guy questions me when I install 8 new spark plugs and a set of wires to make his motor run smoother. He says "ALL of the plugs and wires weren't bad were they?". Hey, you laugh! I charge 30 minutes ($40) to check out his front suspension and tighten then ping his lower ball joints that were loose, what do you say when he asks was that necessary? When you are at that end of the pool, it's really hard to swim in the sludge!
People that understand what it is to keep their machine safe and reliable are fewer and those are the ones though that seek out what we do. We have ample work, I cannot save them all though. It takes work to maintain these machines, it takes $ to buy correct, quality parts and it tyakes folks who know what to do to install, adjust and maintain the coaches. You just can't put out a call for people with those attributes-- they must be developed.
This is our challenge, to get those that do have the wearwithall to have and maintain a machine such as a GMC to see how cool and cost effective these things are. Like I said I do that all day. Sometimes I feel like a farmer laying out seeds all day!
Jim Bounds
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----- Original Message ----
From: dave silva <gmc@davesilva.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Fri, October 23, 2009 1:46:14 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Promoting the GMC
Do we have to be that pesamistic?
It's about reaching the right people. How many new bodies do we need to buy up every viable coach in need of restoration?
A few hundred?
Go shop for a usable motohome under $5k- meet the people in that realm. There are young, mechanically savvy, people with more skill than money who would be willing to buy a 20 yo SOB and spend a pile of money and time to make it decent (mostly fixing leaks) knowing it will continue to depreciate faster than they can put gas in it.
Meanwhile, that same guy could buy a $5000 GMC and put forth the same effort and while he'll never see all his money back, he will have something worth keeping.
We just need to find that guy and show him the math.
Where is that guy now? - he's scouring craigslist, negotiating with his wife and lusting after motorhomes when he takes the family to camping in the popup. And occasionally he goes to an RV trade show.
And while he's on cragslist he sees a GMC for $6K and can't figure out why the other 1974 MH- (Winnebego Brave) is listed in the same relative condition for $1200.
The GMC seller uses words like, 'Classic', 'collectable' 'restoration', which in Craigslist vernacular is often code for CRAP
dave
--
1972 Revcon 250- the other front wheel drive motorhome. http://www.davesilva.com/revcon
Parting out 1974 GMC 26- http://www.davesilva.com/gmc
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GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Promoting the GMC [message #61558 is a reply to message #61539] |
Sun, 25 October 2009 11:22 |
Tin Gerbil
Messages: 236
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver Island, B.C.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Jim;
Next time you need a brake drum for a Flatnose Revcon, go to Dexter
Axle. They still have bins full of them for $84 complete with new
bearings. The drum is a standard trailer drum casting, still in use.
The machining/bearing size is peculiarly to Revcon so it takes 2 weeks
to get through their system. I posted this in the Revcon archives @ 3
years ago. Mickey Mouse (MM) is able to live off of an orphan with
fewer than 150 on the road. He charges $650 exchange for a steering
relay arm and similar prices for all the other parts. His custom $250
front discs are Ford with 1/4" turned of the diameter. The ball joints
and tie rod ends come in plain un-numbered white boxes. The numbers are
on the Revcon site. There are not many truly unique Revcon parts. They
just assembled them using truck parts from the Big 3. The Slantnose is
a very scary machine with a unique, no longer available Borg Warner
transmission and an upside down Eaton forklift final drive. A Revcon is
the best bang for he initial dollar out there, but then look out. An
FMC is a similar bargain. This is why I don't own either, but do have a
GMC.
Gordon
Jim Bounds wrote:
> Dave,
>
> I have not read all of this thread but all you are talking about is
> nothing new for me, I field questions from prospective owners all the
> time. Yes, many are figuring this out but there are many that though
> their heart is in the right place right next to their tool box they
> just cannot get their arms around what it really takes to bring back
> a 30+ year old machine. You just cannot patch it day after day and
> expect to have a machine you can get up on the highway andf rely
> upon. Also, rigging a GMC many times just does not work well, when
> there is a problem with something you just need to spend the time and
> bucks to fix it right and that is not possible for many.
>
> I had a guy that was given a Revcon when the brakes failed in his
> front yard. His brother said "keep it" and bummed a ride home. He
> limped it over to me where I called around for a new master
> cylinder-- a new brake master for a GMC is not over $100, a rebuilt
> brake master for that Revcon was over $500 from thier specialty
> supplier-- I told him he was smoking good stuff and started hunting--
> I found it for @$250 but still that choked they guy. He just did not
> have the $ to fix it right. I did get the master but the same
> specialty supplier wanter @$400 for a good used brake drum so I just
> scuffed up what he had and that was it. The brakes still sucked but
> he did have some. That is sad-- there are many out there that simply
> cannot fund a motorhome--- they are not cheap, they are a luxury
> unless you are living in it and if thats true you probably still do
> not have the bucks to fix the ole girl up right.
>
> No, you hit a nail square when you said there are more coaches out
> there than folks looking for them right now. It is a buyers market
> which means the sale prices wiull be low. Of course that does not
> mean the cost or working on them drops-- labor costs, people have to
> eat, mechanics have to buy tools and parts must be paid for. So
> folks buy a basket case really cheap ($3000) then freak out when it
> costs more than that to just do the basic maintenance stuff everyone
> should do when a coach is purchased (tires, brake check, baseline on
> fluids, motor freshen up, fuel tank hoses, etc). If someone
> purchases a $3000 motorhome and expects to drive it home-- well, they
> are standing out there on that thin limb with me trying to pay the
> bills messing with these things!
>
> Feaks me out when a guy questions me when I install 8 new spark plugs
> and a set of wires to make his motor run smoother. He says "ALL of
> the plugs and wires weren't bad were they?". Hey, you laugh! I
> charge 30 minutes ($40) to check out his front suspension and tighten
> then ping his lower ball joints that were loose, what do you say when
> he asks was that necessary? When you are at that end of the pool,
> it's really hard to swim in the sludge!
>
> People that understand what it is to keep their machine safe and
> reliable are fewer and those are the ones though that seek out what
> we do. We have ample work, I cannot save them all though. It takes
> work to maintain these machines, it takes $ to buy correct, quality
> parts and it tyakes folks who know what to do to install, adjust and
> maintain the coaches. You just can't put out a call for people with
> those attributes-- they must be developed.
>
> This is our challenge, to get those that do have the wearwithall to
> have and maintain a machine such as a GMC to see how cool and cost
> effective these things are. Like I said I do that all day.
> Sometimes I feel like a farmer laying out seeds all day!
>
> Jim Bounds -----------------------
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ---- From: dave silva <gmc@davesilva.com> To:
> gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org Sent: Fri, October 23, 2009 1:46:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Promoting the GMC
>
>
>
> Do we have to be that pesamistic?
>
> It's about reaching the right people. How many new bodies do we need
> to buy up every viable coach in need of restoration?
>
> A few hundred?
>
> Go shop for a usable motohome under $5k- meet the people in that
> realm. There are young, mechanically savvy, people with more skill
> than money who would be willing to buy a 20 yo SOB and spend a pile
> of money and time to make it decent (mostly fixing leaks) knowing it
> will continue to depreciate faster than they can put gas in it.
>
> Meanwhile, that same guy could buy a $5000 GMC and put forth the same
> effort and while he'll never see all his money back, he will have
> something worth keeping.
>
>
> We just need to find that guy and show him the math.
>
> Where is that guy now? - he's scouring craigslist, negotiating with
> his wife and lusting after motorhomes when he takes the family to
> camping in the popup. And occasionally he goes to an RV trade show.
>
>
> And while he's on cragslist he sees a GMC for $6K and can't figure
> out why the other 1974 MH- (Winnebego Brave) is listed in the same
> relative condition for $1200.
>
> The GMC seller uses words like, 'Classic', 'collectable'
> 'restoration', which in Craigslist vernacular is often code for CRAP
>
> dave
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Gordon
'74 Canyon Lands "Tin Gerbil"
Vancouver Island, B.C.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Promoting the GMC [message #61565 is a reply to message #61558] |
Sun, 25 October 2009 11:53 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Gordon
You sure know how to get a point across between what you and Jim say about parts for the Revcon and FMC the GMC parts are cheap and plentiful.
Roy
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Promoting the GMC- [message #61571 is a reply to message #61539] |
Sun, 25 October 2009 12:07 |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164
Registered: September 2009
Location: East NC
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Does anyone want to buy my flatnose? Probably not on this board.
Gordon, Why do i need to buy bell cranks from you know who?
Any competent machinist can change a bushing, right?
And why do I need to use that particular master cylinder?
Any big truck master cyl would move the fluid right? (with a little research)\
Thanks
Dave
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Promoting the GMC [message #61649 is a reply to message #61539] |
Sun, 25 October 2009 21:23 |
Kim David McNeill Sim
Messages: 26
Registered: May 2008
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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On Oct 25, 2009, at 8:45 AM, Jim Bounds wrote:
> This is our challenge, to get those that do have the wearwithall to
> have and maintain a machine such as a GMC to see how cool and cost
> effective these things are. Like I said I do that all day.
> Sometimes I feel like a farmer laying out seeds all day!
>
Jim,
It is one thing to see how to do something but quite another to have
the ability to actually do it.
I am a newbie as you know, but please, if it takes you feeling like a
farmer laying out seeds all day, keep seeding. There are a lot of guys
like me who need a place to get solid information and parts from all
the ground work you do.
I have talked to you asked questions, had you yell at me - with good
reason, I might add, but you were right, and I am a very very green
newbie. Yes I "see" my way around with a wrench.But most people with
my capabilities would never have committed to a GMC, but it was a
dream we have had, Why not jump at it? I will learn my way around the
GMC, but generally I will need to find someone who has far more
mechanical know how and abilities then I will ever have and pay them.
I do dream of having our coach on the road this next Summer, where we
will go is well up in the air, because by then who knows what will
happen with our economy? But we keep dreaming.
Kim
Kim and Pat Simmons
'76 Eleganza II
New Richmond, Ohio
TZE166V101526
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| Re: [GMCnet] Promoting the GMC- [message #61687 is a reply to message #61571] |
Mon, 26 October 2009 06:53 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Hey, I feel your pain on parts for the Revcon, being the bearer of the bad news I feel the frustration as badly as the customer.
First, Revcon used a sideways mounted custom brake master-- look at it, it's really weird. I did find it outside of MM but because it was really obscure, it was expensive. Yes, you might be able to cobble up a rig to something easier to find but I just don';t play around with brakes-- I put in what was DOT approved.
Next, the "bell crank" has 2 fittings, yes the bushing can be refitted but the ball end is also a consideration. A local machinest cannot mess with that, it's pinched into place. I do have a company that does custom one off stuff like that ---- for the price!
See, from there you should talk about windshields and what it takes to install them into the under trim gasket-- what a B*&^%. Then there are the side windows, the rear suspension, the R&R of the motor out the front-- man what a pain! Ther exterior chrome and trim, the interior trim and window surrounds, ---- on and on. To bring a vintage coach back to today it takes literally piles of small pickey little pieces/parts that can be sourced around but think about it this way:
If I need a particular light or something, on a GMC I sit down at my data base and get it-- for a machine like a Revcon, FMC, Airstream or something else-- I have to get out the books, search for the part or at least something that will work-- the time alone to do that process on the volume of pieces/parts needed to work through the coach will add a pile of work. What happens if through your best research there is some "unexpected result' stemming from what you tried. Then you have to go back and start again.\
This is what it takes to do custom work, this is what happens when you get off the path, out of the box, out on that shaky limb and at that point all bets on what it will take to do something are off. There are just so many options, you must do your best and that may not sometimes make things happen the first time. Time is $, there is no way around it.
Example, when we built the 454 for the Revcon motor job, we taylored the specs from our 455 build-- it worked pretty well but there were differences, the motror seemed to run hotter-- all way the same-- what gives! Valves needed to be readjusted, good thing a Chevy motor has adjustments where an Olds does not!
Every issue is different, I would not throw away your Revcon just because you have to pay big bucks for a master cylinder-- I would however flush the brake system every year! Yes, it is much easier to maintain a GMC, there are more around also so the cost is more competitive but you have a most unque machine and if renovated well will turn heads. Keep it and make your plans to bring it up to standard carefully.
Jim Bounds
----------------------
----- Original Message ----
From: dave silva <gmc@davesilva.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sun, October 25, 2009 1:07:23 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Promoting the GMC-
Does anyone want to buy my flatnose? Probably not on this board.
Gordon, Why do i need to buy bell cranks from you know who?
Any competent machinist can change a bushing, right?
And why do I need to use that particular master cylinder?
Any big truck master cyl would move the fluid right? (with a little research)\
Thanks
Dave
--
1972 Revcon 250- the other front wheel drive motorhome. http://www.davesilva.com/revcon
Parting out 1974 GMC 26- http://www.davesilva.com/gmc
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| Re: [GMCnet] Promoting the GMC- [message #61703 is a reply to message #61687] |
Mon, 26 October 2009 08:06 |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164
Registered: September 2009
Location: East NC
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Jim,
Thanks for the "encouragement"
I'll keep the Revcon until it stops being fun. Fortunately, The flatnose has the 455 and just about everything is either GMC or tornado. Except the brake MC and boost.
I think the pinched fitting on my bell crank is good. It's wet with grease and does not appear to move. The other end has all the slop. So I may let my local machinist have a crack at it. But if it needs specialized attention the price to beat is $400 so let me know if you or your specialty machine shop wants the work.
But part of why I hang out here and why I initiated the threads about promoting the GMC is because of the Revcon experience. It no longer has critical mass to remain viable. My 'hobby' is travel- not RV restoration.
I know a little about promotion and packaging a message and I'd like to see this community do more to maintain critical mass. You and the other vendors can't do it all.
A few years ago you could find support for the Clark Cortez.
Thanks
Dave
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
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