Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Troubleshooting coach vibrations using the NVH app on phone
| Troubleshooting coach vibrations using the NVH app on phone [message #370765] |
Wed, 16 November 2022 20:11  |
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RF_Burns
Messages: 2277
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada
Karma: 3
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Has anyone used the NVH app for cellphones to track down vibrations and shaking in your coach?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1cr3QaOzGY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAQ2AM5Y5sA
Its an app from Vibrate Software that uses the sensors in your smart phone to detect and analyze vibrations. Using the GPS function for speed and accelerometer for vibration, it can determine whether the vibration is from the wheels, transmission, drivetrain, or engine.
I have a shake that starts at about 60+ MPH that's driving me crazy. It feels like a tire balance issue. I had Counteract beads which worked fine till a few years ago. I thought maybe they were breaking down or clumping together with moisture as sometimes they seemed to work better after going over railway tracks. So I had them removed and the wheels balanced with weights before going to the maritimes. Well it was worse! It occurred to me that I saw the tire guy putting my tire pressure sensors back on after re-installing the wheels... had he balanced them without the TPS installed! So I went back and they claimed the sensors would not affect the balance. Well they are 0.7oz so that throws them off... I paid to have it done all over again and they were all off by the weight of the TPS!!
Well it was marginally better but still shook too much for comfort. So I took the wheels to another place and had them break the bead on the tires. I took them home and put 4oz of AirSoft beads in them. Well that is marginally better, but it certainly still shakes.
So I'm wondering if its a tire issue, belt separating or something that the balancer does not pick up. My tires were new in 2013, so they will be replaced in the spring.
Anyway, I came across this video (and others) on YouTube. The app seems to work wonders diagnosing the issues and suggesting fixes. Just wonder if anyone has used it. The app costs $99, but that less than the cost of a tire balancing!
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
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| Re: Troubleshooting coach vibrations using the NVH app on phone [message #370770 is a reply to message #370765] |
Fri, 18 November 2022 07:08  |
kingd
Messages: 592
Registered: June 2004
Karma: 2
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To Bruce and anyone interested.
I am a PITA with Tire Shops when it comes to tire balance.
unfortuneately for them I know what a GOOD balance job feels like and really don't want to accept anything less.
Try to inspect your wheel/tire assembly off the ground. Use some method to check for "out of round" before removing the
wheels. I was surprised at how little "run out" I could feel
Ask the tire shop if you can watch how they spin the assembly. Do they locate off the hub hole or the
bolt holes ?
Does the run out on their machine look the same as you saw on the vehicle?
A lot of Canadian Tire stores have a balancing method called "ROAD FORCE"
The equipment is made by a well know tire balancing company. Try that
If your buying new tires in the spring, I suggest living with what you have for now.
Let us know if you find anything.
DAVE KING
lurker, wannabe
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Re: Troubleshooting coach vibrations using the NVH app on phone [message #370771 is a reply to message #370765] |
Fri, 18 November 2022 08:42 |
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RF_Burns
Messages: 2277
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada
Karma: 3
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Dave,
Interestingly the local tire shop has the Hunter Road Force machine, although I don't think their guys know how to use it properly. This was the place that I had remove the CounterAct beads and balance them with weights, then I saw them installing the Tire Pressure Monitor Sensors (TPMS) AFTER balancing. It's a TireCraft francise where you don't get to talk to the guy who actually does the work. When I went back to complain about the shake and that I saw the guy installing the TPMS after balancing, the front counter guy told me that the TPMS does not affect the balance!
He finally agreed to test one wheel again, and it was out by the amount of the TPMS weight. I still had to pay them to redo it (discounted the price a bit), I did not see them use the "Road Force" wheel against the tire. If I was them with a return customer I would have been checking the tires too. I would have gladly replaced a faulty tire and likely replaced all of them if they showed me one was faulty.
Funny you mention Canadian Tire. When I had the blowout back in 2013, it was my initial set of Michelins and they were 5 years old, so I decided to replace all 6. I was in Hamilton when it happened and found a CTC that had 6 Michelins in-stock. BUT they would not install them for me saying they do not work on any vehicle larger than a pickup truck. Their overhead doors had even been limited to about 7 feet opening height and would not do the work on the apron! I finally found a Kal Tire store (I believe) that had 4 tires the right size and could do install them that day (Friday afternoon), but they were Toyo Open-Country tires. I went ahead and had them installed, then bought 2 Toyo's more at a local tire shop when we got home. I really like the Toyo's. They are quieter and until this shake came along, gave a much smoother ride in my opinion.
So to the local TireCraft, I am already a PITA customer. My experience with CTC auto service has never been good, so I avoid them... the store is Ok though.
The coach is parked in the shop for the winter. Hopefully I will be able to afford new tires in the spring! I'm not sure if I'll be buying them from the local guy, or if I'll go someplace else.
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
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| Re: Troubleshooting coach vibrations using the NVH app on phone [message #370772 is a reply to message #370765] |
Fri, 18 November 2022 09:30 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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I bought my own spin balancing machine about 15 years ago as I have multiple vehicles and want to fix imbalance issues as needed. I do not have a tire machine. I take assemblies to tire place for mounting, dismounting, balancing. I always check balance on all their just balanced work to save redo time. With big chain stores I find I have to rebalance 50% of their work. Some are fine some off .50 to .75. Close but not 0.00. Enough to be annoying. I check them all multiple times as I’m not on the clock and results are consistent as to good/bad repeatability so not machine error. Part of the problem when in a hurry is not getting the wheel properly “homed” on the cone or using the wrong cone. I always spin the wheel by hand as I tighten the clamp. Helps clear any burs/dirt. The large center holes on our wheels make it more difficult. Backside corrosion needs to be cleaned off. Emery had noted using an 8 lug adaptor on the machine helped with accuracy. I don’t have one so just use the large cone and be sure to home the assembly. Once at 0.00, I rotate the assembly like 30° on the machine and retest for 0.00. I have had great balance longevity on the GMC both with the LTX and HT3 tires not needing rebalance. We have a great one man tire professional shop near O’hare called Tire Service. Lee posts daily on FB showing the mistakes he fixes from the big chain tire stores. Bead sealer over corrosion, torn beads, wrong weights, weights over old weights, plugs instead of patches, 4 oz imballances, botched TPMS etc. It’s both alarming and dangerous. I’d never go near a chain store tire place with any of my vehicles. Carry in at worst, then check balance before install.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
[Updated on: Fri, 18 November 2022 09:41] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Troubleshooting coach vibrations using the NVH app on phone [message #370777 is a reply to message #370765] |
Sun, 20 November 2022 11:26 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Looks like app is very vehicle specific. And based on 4 tire vehicles. Even if you can build your own vehicle and it can do a six wheel vehicle, can it discern the rears as separate, being they share the common boggie box? I’m betting no. In the case of the BMW, both issues could have been found with a simple visual inspection, no app needed. Bent wheel and perished rubber support. Not rocket surgery.
I suspect worn inner 1 ton CVs. There have been a lot of reported 1ton wear outs. This causes galling, bind and elliptical orbit of the shaft. My guess is on a 1ton truck, 4x4 is disengaged 98% of the time and free wheeling. When engaged, propulsion is shared with rear axle. Perhaps the duty cycle is being exceeded on a TZE. I’d inspect those first. Or even have someone drive while you observe with hatch off when the vibration is in progress as a start. Also be sure support bearing is good (assuming 1ton still has that, not sure).
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
[Updated on: Sun, 20 November 2022 11:29] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Troubleshooting coach vibrations using the NVH app on phone [message #370780 is a reply to message #370765] |
Mon, 21 November 2022 14:40 |
skip2
Messages: 544
Registered: September 2011
Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Also there is quite a bit of adjustment for aligning the right axle bearing carrier so it come out of the transaxle squarely. Never heard what it will produce if not right.
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
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| Re: Troubleshooting coach vibrations using the NVH app on phone [message #370782 is a reply to message #370765] |
Tue, 22 November 2022 07:44 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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I had a drone/ groan sound coming from rear. Thought it was tread pattern on LTX. When I got HT3s I had same sound. It turned out to be leading rear outer passenger bearing was rough. By mileage, bearings were not due for service. It was quiet until warmed up and speeds over 62-63. But this was a drone not tire speed shaking. If you can figure out if L or R rear, then swap out with spare to get a change in symptoms, you can find it. You then have a 50/50 of finding it in one swap and pretty much 100% of finding it in 2 moves if only 1 tire is defective or unbalanced.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Troubleshooting coach vibrations using the NVH app on phone [message #370795 is a reply to message #370765] |
Sun, 27 November 2022 15:46 |
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Richard RV
Messages: 631
Registered: July 2012
Location: Full-timer for 12 years, ...
Karma: -17
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Senior Member |
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Bruce,
I'd bought a Steelman Wireless Chassis Ear with the four transmitters to locate and identify noises and vibrations. I had very high hopes for it. I figured on placing the 4 wireless transmitters clamped to the chassis around the suspected location of the noise, and switch transmitter channels while driving to home in on the noise. Looked good on paper...sent it back as it worked great in the building and at a distance but I couldn't get it to work consistently and reliably on the GMC.
I downloaded the free version of an iPhone app, Toolbox - Smart Meter Tools, that has a slew of tools that can utilize the numerous sensors smartphones have. Decibel meter, metronome, seismometer, barometer, altimeter and many more. I've only played around with it and haven't used it for actual diagnostics. I put the phone on a quiet 30" tower heater that's running and the seismometer showed a good signal, even though I could barely feel the vibration with my fingers.
I was thinking the metronome could help determine which of the various engine parts was making noise based on the RPMs - adjust the metronome to the same speed as the engine noise.
You could also use the barometer to measure the height of the GMC!
Richard
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach under construction;
‘76 Edgemont waiting its turn
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