Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] steering again
| [GMCnet] steering again [message #367387] |
Fri, 29 October 2021 12:26  |
Brian Waddell
Messages: 409
Registered: March 2010
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my steering box is 2.5 turns from complete left to complete right. Despite having tried to fix the steering by replacing components and aligning all components and measuring rear wheels and rechecking over and over and having front end shops check the components and alignment ...I still can not steer it with comfort on the hwy. Despite owning this mh for over 20 years, I have never used it because I can not steer it. You guys on this net have tried you r best to rectify my steering issues, but I am the one who gave up out of frustration. I worked on it again this late summer thinking maybe I could drive this thing to the wisconsin rally, that got cancelled for me being canadian. So my question...Could the range of my steering box being 2.5 turns be my problem?????...Thanks
Brian Waddell
77 ele 455
Sperling. manitoba Canada
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| Re: [GMCnet] steering again [message #367553 is a reply to message #367387] |
Fri, 12 November 2021 18:22  |
boybach
Messages: 566
Registered: December 2020
Location: Vancouver Island
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Brian Waddell wrote on Fri, 29 October 2021 10:26my steering box is 2.5 turns from complete left to complete right. Despite having tried to fix the steering by replacing components and aligning all components and measuring rear wheels and rechecking over and over and having front end shops check the components and alignment ...I still can not steer it with comfort on the hwy. Despite owning this mh for over 20 years, I have never used it because I can not steer it. You guys on this net have tried you r best to rectify my steering issues, but I am the one who gave up out of frustration. I worked on it again this late summer thinking maybe I could drive this thing to the wisconsin rally, that got cancelled for me being canadian. So my question...Could the range of my steering box being 2.5 turns be my problem?????...Thanks
Brian Waddell
77 ele 455
Sperling. manitoba Canada
Something I hadn't checked until today ...BUT ...now I find my own steering box is also 2.5 turns lock to lock.
Like you, I find the steering to be squirrely. Less insane than it used to be and now somewhat "handle-able" after performing every check and adjustment recommended on the forum. The coach has no play in front end, the rear bogies are straight without play, the heights are set properly and the tires are new, but it still doesn't behave as I feel it should. Maybe it is the range of the 2.5 box that's causing the problems like you suggest?
Larry
Larry - Victoria BC -
1977 ex-Palm Beach "Ol' Leaky" 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. Atwood helium fridge, water heater & furnace. SS exhaust system, Onan, Iota Converter, R134A, New fuel lines & heat exchange hoses
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| [GMCnet] Re: steering again [message #367555 is a reply to message #367553] |
Sat, 13 November 2021 15:38 |
Brian Waddell
Messages: 409
Registered: March 2010
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We, have gone through the basic Mueller again...again checks out...
Talked to jim K about the steering radius...cost of a box etc..
Ken b brought up the question...What is stopping the turning radius at the end of maximum rt turn and left turn?...As I understand it, the turning stops should be internal to the box, and not the external stops on the lower A arms to knuckle.
Mine is the latter external...in fact ...the wheels do not look right when I am in max turn and get out to look at them ....and...there is resistance to forward motion more than I would expect. Then it snowed and I put the damn thing away for another winter. At this time I think I will replace the box, although what bugs me is that the contributers on this net have generally said that replacing the box had made little if any difference to their steering issues
Brian 77 ele 455
sperling mb canada
________________________________
From: twlldeen@gmail.com
Sent: November 12, 2021 5:22 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Re: steering again
Brian Waddell wrote on Fri, 29 October 2021 10:26
> my steering box is 2.5 turns from complete left to complete right. Despite having tried to fix the steering by replacing components and aligning
> all components and measuring rear wheels and rechecking over and over and having front end shops check the components and alignment ...I still can
> not steer it with comfort on the hwy. Despite owning this mh for over 20 years, I have never used it because I can not steer it. You guys on this
> net have tried you r best to rectify my steering issues, but I am the one who gave up out of frustration. I worked on it again this late summer
> thinking maybe I could drive this thing to the wisconsin rally, that got cancelled for me being canadian. So my question...Could the range of my
> steering box being 2.5 turns be my problem?????...Thanks
>
> Brian Waddell
> 77 ele 455
> Sperling. manitoba Canada
Something I hadn't checked until today ...BUT ...now I find my own steering box is also 2.5 turns lock to lock.
Like you, I find the steering to be squirrely. Less insane than it used to be and now somewhat "handle-able" after performing every check and
adjustment recommended on the forum. The coach has no play in front end, the rear bogies are straight without play, the heights are set properly and
the tires are new, but it still doesn't behave as I feel it should. Maybe it is the range of the 2.5 box that's causing the problems like you
suggest?
Larry
--
Larry - Victoria BC -
1977 ex-Palm Beach "Ol' Leaky" 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. Atwood helium fridge, water heater & furnace. SS
exhaust system, Onan, Iota Converter, R134A, New fuel lines & heat exchange hoses
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| [GMCnet] Re: steering again [message #367556 is a reply to message #367555] |
Sat, 13 November 2021 16:10 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Remember this point: tie rod ends, ball joints, and all similarly made
products that are a tiny bit loose in the center of their travel, while
remaining tight at the extreme left/right or up/ down positions reflect the
fact that they spend the majority of their lives at the straight ahead or
mid point of their travel ranges. When you are traveling down the road,
only tiny bits of motion are required to keep your vehicle going straight
down the road. This is just a FACT OF LIFE!
So, they can be quite worn out in the middle of their travel ranges,
and still feel quite new at their extreme travel ranges. This applies to
steering boxes and steering shaft joints like the cross and yoke in the
bottom of the GMC shaft, the square blue slip joint, and the Ruzeppa
constant velocity ball joint the upper part of the shaft.
You add all those tiny bits of slop up at the end of the day, the
tires can move quite a ways without transmitting that movement to the
steering wheel in your hands. NO SINGLE PART is more important than any
other. Steering slop is a added sum of all the tiny bits of motion
together.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Sat, Nov 13, 2021, 1:39 PM Brian Waddell wrote:
> We, have gone through the basic Mueller again...again checks out...
> Talked to jim K about the steering radius...cost of a box etc..
> Ken b brought up the question...What is stopping the turning radius at the
> end of maximum rt turn and left turn?...As I understand it, the turning
> stops should be internal to the box, and not the external stops on the
> lower A arms to knuckle.
> Mine is the latter external...in fact ...the wheels do not look right when
> I am in max turn and get out to look at them ....and...there is resistance
> to forward motion more than I would expect. Then it snowed and I put the
> damn thing away for another winter. At this time I think I will replace the
> box, although what bugs me is that the contributers on this net have
> generally said that replacing the box had made little if any difference to
> their steering issues
> Brian 77 ele 455
> sperling mb canada
> ________________________________
> From: twlldeen@gmail.com
> Sent: November 12, 2021 5:22 PM
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: [GMCnet] Re: steering again
>
> Brian Waddell wrote on Fri, 29 October 2021 10:26
>> my steering box is 2.5 turns from complete left to complete right.
> Despite having tried to fix the steering by replacing components and
> aligning
>> all components and measuring rear wheels and rechecking over and over
> and having front end shops check the components and alignment ...I still can
>> not steer it with comfort on the hwy. Despite owning this mh for over
> 20 years, I have never used it because I can not steer it. You guys on this
>> net have tried you r best to rectify my steering issues, but I am the
> one who gave up out of frustration. I worked on it again this late summer
>> thinking maybe I could drive this thing to the wisconsin rally, that got
> cancelled for me being canadian. So my question...Could the range of my
>> steering box being 2.5 turns be my problem?????...Thanks
>>
>> Brian Waddell
>> 77 ele 455
>> Sperling. manitoba Canada
>
> Something I hadn't checked until today ...BUT ...now I find my own
> steering box is also 2.5 turns lock to lock.
>
> Like you, I find the steering to be squirrely. Less insane than it used to
> be and now somewhat "handle-able" after performing every check and
> adjustment recommended on the forum. The coach has no play in front end,
> the rear bogies are straight without play, the heights are set properly and
> the tires are new, but it still doesn't behave as I feel it should. Maybe
> it is the range of the 2.5 box that's causing the problems like you
> suggest?
>
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
> --
> Larry - Victoria BC -
>
> 1977 ex-Palm Beach "Ol' Leaky" 40,000 miles, PO said everything working
> but forgot the word NOT. Atwood helium fridge, water heater & furnace. SS
> exhaust system, Onan, Iota Converter, R134A, New fuel lines & heat
> exchange hoses
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Re: steering again [message #367557 is a reply to message #367556] |
Sat, 13 November 2021 18:08 |
boybach
Messages: 566
Registered: December 2020
Location: Vancouver Island
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I don't have any slop in the front end components below the steering column; all parts have been replaced with new parts.
The steering box might be a used part though, (looks old) and even though I performed the centering procedure, re-coated the blue shaft and replaced the boot, I still think there's something amiss.
As I mentioned yesterday, the steering box is 2-1/2 turns lock to lock. Odd thing is, it's 1-1/2 turns one way from center and only 1 turn in the other.
That would suggest the steering box isn't on center, but AFAIK I did the steering box centering by the book. Weird! Maybe these 2-1/2 turn boxes are set up differently? Just a WAG.
Larry
Larry - Victoria BC -
1977 ex-Palm Beach "Ol' Leaky" 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. Atwood helium fridge, water heater & furnace. SS exhaust system, Onan, Iota Converter, R134A, New fuel lines & heat exchange hoses
[Updated on: Sat, 13 November 2021 18:10] Report message to a moderator |
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| [GMCnet] Re: steering again [message #367558 is a reply to message #367557] |
Sat, 13 November 2021 19:04 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
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Larry,
1.5 turns 1 way and 1.0 the other is WEIRD! Does that travel rotate the
wheels equally in each direction? Have you confirmed that by comparing the
proximity of the knuckle stops to those on the A-arms? In any case, I
seriously doubt that the box is "on center" -- which would, of course,
explain your erratic steering.
Personally, I'd pull and disassemble that steering box TOMORROW and find
out what's going on. ('Tho' I might get an OEM box before "Tommorowing it"
-- "just in case".) :-)
Please continue to keep us posted.
Ken H.
On Sat, Nov 13, 2021 at 7:08 PM wrote:
> I don't have any slop in the front end components below the steering
> column; all parts have been replaced with new parts.
>
> The steering box might be a used part though, (looks old) and even though
> I performed the centering procedure, re-coated the blue shaft and replaced
> the boot, I still think there's something amiss.
> As I mentioned yesterday, the steering box is 2-1/2 turns lock to lock.
> Odd thing is, it's 1-1/2 turns one way from center and only 1 turn in the
> other.
> That would suggest the steering box isn't on center, but AFAIK I did the
> steering box centering by the book. Weird!
>
> Larry
> --
> Larry - Victoria BC -
>
> 1977 ex-Palm Beach "Ol' Leaky" 40,000 miles, PO said everything working
> but forgot the word NOT. Atwood helium fridge, water heater & furnace. SS
> exhaust system, Onan, Iota Converter, R134A, New fuel lines & heat
> exchange hoses
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Re: steering again [message #367559 is a reply to message #367558] |
Sat, 13 November 2021 19:55 |
boybach
Messages: 566
Registered: December 2020
Location: Vancouver Island
Karma: 4
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Ken - I was on my own when I tested the steering so I couldn't check outside or what was happening below. I don't know -yet- what is causing the "stops", the box or the steering arms etc.
On Monday I'll be do the winterizing and there'll be a couple of us so I can take a better look.
Of course Monday's weather forecast is for pi$$ing rain so perfect time to be laying underneath the coach.
I was surprised at the result when I tried the lock to lock thing, I didn't force the steering wheel and ATM I have no clue what was restricting (if anything) the wheels in the 1-turn direction. Prior to this check I can't say I felt my turning ability was limited and I did about a 800 miles this summer with things set like this, mainly on narrow minor roads. Kinda got used to it I guess and managed OK ...highway speeds were a bit of a challenge though.
<edit>It's beginning to sound like I might have assembled the intermediate shaft incorrectly?
When I did the steering box centering job a few months back, I used the magnet indicators to make sure things were aligned properly and used the drill before inserting the bolt to make sure the lower shaft splines fit in the right position.
Before I took it all apart, I was pretty careful to mark the position of the blue shaft and the CV halves, so it seems to me that when I re-assembled the blue shaft or the CV, I must have mixed up the markings OR the PARTS WERE ALREADY MISALIGNED by the PO ...after all, I tried centering the box in the first place to try and sort out the extremely scary steering, right?
So if this is the problem, any suggestions as to how to proceed?
Larry
There's a mention of the 2-1/2 turn steering box on page 2 of this .pdf
http://www.gmceast.com/technical/Wirth_GMCMH_Steering_Box.pdf
Larry - Victoria BC -
1977 ex-Palm Beach "Ol' Leaky" 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. Atwood helium fridge, water heater & furnace. SS exhaust system, Onan, Iota Converter, R134A, New fuel lines & heat exchange hoses
[Updated on: Sun, 14 November 2021 03:00] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Re: steering again [message #367560 is a reply to message #367559] |
Sun, 14 November 2021 11:36 |
Bill Van Vlack
Messages: 419
Registered: September 2015
Location: Guemes Island, Washington
Karma: 14
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I'm guessing there was a local magnetic disturbance when you centered the box and the shaft flat wasn't truly lined up with the cover plate. By definition, center is halfway along the lead screw because that is the region where the lead screw is machined to provide slightly more resistance to the ball/screw movement. At that point there should be equal turns of the stub shaft (hence steering wheel) each way (assuming that either the internal stops or the knuckle/LCA collision stops are what prevents more turns of the steering wheel). If a good 70's car box was modified to add GMC stops, then the box should work.
So how's this for an approach...
- Turn the steering wheel lock-to-lock and verify whether the box has internal stops and there's nothing else preventing the box from turning the wheels. If no internal stops, get a proper GMC box or find some proper stops and install them.
- If there are internal stops, turn the steering wheel half way between stops; presumably the steering wheel won't be straight up. I'll bet it's 90 deg off, (half of 1-1/2 minus 1 turns) which would imply it's the blue shaft clocking that's wrong.
- Make sure the steering wheel is on it's marks; if not, remove it and make it so
- Disconnect the steering box and don't let the box input shaft move while making corrections.
- Turn the steering wheel until it's straight up and down, and brace it so that it doesn't move.
- Now find the combination of blue shaft and cv joint adjustments that connect the centered box with the centered steering wheel, and connect the box to the steering wheel.
- Adjust the tie rod ends or drag link to make the tires point straight ahead with zero toe.
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid November 2015.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Re: steering again [message #367561 is a reply to message #367560] |
Sun, 14 November 2021 13:28 |
boybach
Messages: 566
Registered: December 2020
Location: Vancouver Island
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Bill Van Vlack wrote on Sun, 14 November 2021 09:36
- Turn the steering wheel lock-to-lock and verify whether the box has internal stops and there's nothing else preventing the box from turning the wheels. If no internal stops, get a proper GMC box or find some proper stops and install them.
- If there are internal stops, turn the steering wheel half way between stops; presumably the steering wheel won't be straight up. I'll bet it's 90 deg off, (half of 1-1/2 minus 1 turns) which would imply it's the blue shaft clocking that's wrong.
- Make sure the steering wheel is on it's marks; if not, remove it and make it so
- Disconnect the steering box and don't let the box input shaft move while making corrections.
- Turn the steering wheel until it's straight up and down, and brace it so that it doesn't move.
- Now find the combination of blue shaft and cv joint adjustments that connect the centered box with the centered steering wheel, and connect the box to the steering wheel.
- Adjust the tie rod ends or drag link to make the tires point straight ahead with zero toe.
Thanks a bunch, will follow these directions to the T! I have an adjustable drag link - wasn't clear before how to get the wheels straight ahead after adjustment - now I get it - thanks!
Will report back after I FINALLY get it set up!
Larry
Larry - Victoria BC -
1977 ex-Palm Beach "Ol' Leaky" 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. Atwood helium fridge, water heater & furnace. SS exhaust system, Onan, Iota Converter, R134A, New fuel lines & heat exchange hoses
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| Re: [GMCnet] steering again [message #367562 is a reply to message #367387] |
Sun, 14 November 2021 13:50 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Larry,
Something to check while you are at it and only if you have not already:
Pop the horn button off and look at top of that shaft. When built, there was a chisel mark at straight ahead. If it is not right there, that will tell you a good place to start.
Many front end shops never bother to balance the offset between the tie rods. They would get the toe right and then pull the wheel and put it back on at straight ahead. During the history of vehicles, many only had one adjustable tie rod.
If it is not there, come back and tell us and I or someone will tell you where to start.
Trust me, this is well worth doing. When you get it right, you will be thankful that you did.
Just so you know, it took me a solid day and an half to get mine right.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] steering again [message #367567 is a reply to message #367562] |
Sun, 14 November 2021 23:10 |
boybach
Messages: 566
Registered: December 2020
Location: Vancouver Island
Karma: 4
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I'd like to get it absolutely clear in my brainbox on the procedure of straightening the wheels after I get the column/steering box clocked correctly ... let's assume for the moment that I do have a steering box with internal stops and manage to correct the blue shaft/steering wheel relationship. In doing the centering presumably I'd turned the steering wheel to the mid point which caused the wheels to point away from straight ahead, right?
...so am I right in thinking that if the wheels are parallel and aligned before I start doing anything I'll be able to return BOTH wheels to the straight ahead position by adjusting only the drag link -or will I need to adjust the tie rod ends also?
Just trying to be careful and not mess up
Larry
Larry - Victoria BC -
1977 ex-Palm Beach "Ol' Leaky" 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. Atwood helium fridge, water heater & furnace. SS exhaust system, Onan, Iota Converter, R134A, New fuel lines & heat exchange hoses
[Updated on: Sun, 14 November 2021 23:10] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] steering again [message #367568 is a reply to message #367567] |
Mon, 15 November 2021 00:40 |
Bill Van Vlack
Messages: 419
Registered: September 2015
Location: Guemes Island, Washington
Karma: 14
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Yes, if you adjust the drag link, both wheels will correct the same amount. Once you adjust them straight you should check to see if the tie rods have equal room to adjust both ways. If you want to 'center' them, turn each one the same amount in opposite directions - so one adjusts away from the coach centerline and the other towards it so that their angle of turn remains the same. Then turn the drag link again to make them point straight ahead.
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid November 2015.
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| Re: [GMCnet] steering again [message #367569 is a reply to message #367568] |
Mon, 15 November 2021 02:34 |
boybach
Messages: 566
Registered: December 2020
Location: Vancouver Island
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Bill Van Vlack wrote on Sun, 14 November 2021 22:40Yes, if you adjust the drag link, both wheels will correct the same amount. Once you adjust them straight you should check to see if the tie rods have equal room to adjust both ways. If you want to 'center' them, turn each one the same amount in opposite directions - so one adjusts away from the coach centerline and the other towards it so that their angle of turn remains the same. Then turn the drag link again to make them point straight ahead.
Thanks Bill I think I finally have it straight now all I have to do is get the coach "straight" 
Larry
Larry - Victoria BC -
1977 ex-Palm Beach "Ol' Leaky" 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. Atwood helium fridge, water heater & furnace. SS exhaust system, Onan, Iota Converter, R134A, New fuel lines & heat exchange hoses
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| [GMCnet] Re: steering again [message #367570 is a reply to message #367569] |
Mon, 15 November 2021 04:55 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Larry,
I haven't seen it mentioned in this latest thread: When the wheels are
straight ahead, the Relay Arm and the Idler Arm should each be parallel to
the frame's side rails. This can only be achieved by correctly adjusting
the individual tie rod ends.
Ken H.
On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 3:34 AM wrote:
> Bill Van Vlack wrote on Sun, 14 November 2021 22:40
>> Yes, if you adjust the drag link, both wheels will correct the same
> amount. Once you adjust them straight you should check to see if the tie
> rods
>> have equal room to adjust both ways. If you want to 'center' them, turn
> each one the same amount in opposite directions - so one adjusts away from
>> the coach centerline and the other towards it so that their angle of
> turn remains the same. Then turn the drag link again to make them point
>> straight ahead.
>
> Thanks Bill I think I finally have it straight now all I have to do is get
> the coach "straight" :lol:
>
> Larry
>
> --
> Larry - Victoria BC -
>
> 1977 ex-Palm Beach "Ol' Leaky" 40,000 miles, PO said everything working
> but forgot the word NOT. Atwood helium fridge, water heater & furnace. SS
> exhaust system, Onan, Iota Converter, R134A, New fuel lines & heat
> exchange hoses
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] steering again [message #367571 is a reply to message #367387] |
Mon, 15 November 2021 08:12 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Correction needs to be done, as Ken says, so that tires and wheels straight puts the steering linkage (relay and idler and associated parts) centered and parallel. You should have already established center of box with 12 on the steering wheel. Now you know 12 on wheel is center on box. Lastly you adjust drag link so steering wheel (and box) are back on center when you are going straight.
Understand that you can have steering wheel and box on center, toe at zero and tires and wheel straight, and have the steering linkage off to either side. The system will be asymmetrical with turn in toe and turn sharper one way than the other and be a terror to drive. Once all set up correctly, the drag link is only to be used for fine nuisance recentering of the steering wheel (and therefore box) so you don’t upset the correct toe. Larger adjustments will force the idler and relay away from true center.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
[Updated on: Mon, 15 November 2021 08:14] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] steering again [message #367572 is a reply to message #367571] |
Mon, 15 November 2021 10:05 |
Bill Van Vlack
Messages: 419
Registered: September 2015
Location: Guemes Island, Washington
Karma: 14
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JohnL455 wrote on Mon, 15 November 2021 08:12
Understand that you can have steering wheel and box on center, toe at zero and tires and wheel straight, and have the steering linkage off to either side.
So, an additional step would be to adjust the drag link until the levers are pointing straight back, then adjust the tie rod ends equally to bring the wheels back to straight - correct?
If so, I'd add/revise my earlier recipe..
Quote:- - Turn the steering wheel lock-to-lock and verify whether the box has internal stops and there's nothing else preventing the box from turning the wheels. If no internal stops, get a proper GMC box or find some proper stops and install them.
- If there are internal stops, turn the steering wheel half way between stops; presumably the steering wheel won't be straight up. I'll bet it's 90 deg off, (half of 1-1/2 minus 1 turns) which would imply it's the blue shaft clocking that's wrong.
- Make sure the steering wheel is on it's marks; if not, remove it and make it so
- Disconnect the steering box and don't let the box input shaft move while making corrections.
- Turn the steering wheel until it's straight up and down, and brace it so that it doesn't move.
- Now find the combination of blue shaft and cv joint adjustments that connect the centered box with the centered steering wheel, and connect the box to the steering wheel.
- Adjust the drag link so that the relay arms point straight back
- Adjust the tie rod ends to make the tires point straight ahead with zero toe.
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid November 2015.
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| Re: [GMCnet] steering again [message #367573 is a reply to message #367387] |
Mon, 15 November 2021 10:17 |
boybach
Messages: 566
Registered: December 2020
Location: Vancouver Island
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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When I initially went through the process of centering the box a few months ago (without getting the shaft and steering wheel clocked properly), I checked the the Relay Arm and the Idler Arm and they were straight and parallel to the side rails when the wheels were straight ahead.
Now, my plan is to set the steering wheel at the mid point, (won't be at 12 o'clock) which will of course point the wheels to one side due to the incorrect clocking of the shaft etc ..then, keeping the steering wheel where it is (and the steering box now centered), mark and disconnect the shaft. Next, keeping the steering box and wheels where they are, re-clock the shaft to match the steering wheel at 12.
If all goes well, I would now have the steering wheel and box on center but with the wheels off center/not straight ahead, right?
I don't know how much they would be off until I can do a visual check either today or tomorrow.
So - can I use the adjustable drag link to straighten the wheels or not?
Larry
Larry - Victoria BC -
1977 ex-Palm Beach "Ol' Leaky" 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. Atwood helium fridge, water heater & furnace. SS exhaust system, Onan, Iota Converter, R134A, New fuel lines & heat exchange hoses
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| Re: [GMCnet] steering again [message #367576 is a reply to message #367573] |
Mon, 15 November 2021 11:18 |
Bill Van Vlack
Messages: 419
Registered: September 2015
Location: Guemes Island, Washington
Karma: 14
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Senior Member |
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boybach wrote on Mon, 15 November 2021 10:17When I initially went through the process of centering the box a few months ago (without getting the shaft and steering wheel clocked properly), I checked the the Relay Arm and the Idler Arm and they were straight and parallel to the side rails when the wheels were straight ahead.
Now, my plan is to set the steering wheel at the mid point, (won't be at 12 o'clock) which will of course point the wheels to one side due to the incorrect clocking of the shaft etc ..then, keeping the steering wheel where it is (and the steering box now centered), mark and disconnect the shaft. Next, keeping the steering box and wheels where they are, re-clock the shaft to match the steering wheel at 12.
If all goes well, I would now have the steering wheel and box on center but with the wheels off center/not straight ahead, right?
I don't know how much they would be off until I can do a visual check either today or tomorrow.
So - can I use the adjustable drag link to straighten the wheels or not?
Larry
I think the next step would be to use the adjustable link to bring the relay arms pointing straight back, then use the tie rod adjustments to straighten the wheels; moving then in synch to retain the toe alignment. I think I did mine backwards... I moved the tie rods until they were in the center of their adjustments and then straightened the wheels with the adjustable drag link. The relay arms ended up pretty much straight back. I'll have to do it the right way in the Spring.
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid November 2015.
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| [GMCnet] Re: steering again [message #367577 is a reply to message #367573] |
Mon, 15 November 2021 11:00 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Most later coaches do NOT have an adjustable drag link. Your coach is a 77.
So, it may or may not have been fitted with one from the factory.
So, my question for you is this. "What would you do if you did not
have an adjustable link?"
If your coach has ever been to an alignment shop, I would bet good
money on two things. 1. Your steering wheel has been pulled and reassembled
differently than how it came apart. And 2. Your tie rods have been
adjusted. Just how they do things.
I have a Jerry Work alignment kit with gunfight lasers, and a
professional camber/caster set that centers either on your wheels, or if
the wheels are removed, on the hub. It is damn touchy, and will check down
to a 1/10 of a degree.
I had my doubts about Jerry's toe gage, so, I double and triple
checked it for accuracy. Should have known better, because when Jerry does
anything, you can bet your boots that it is right. It is just not in his
nature to do anything half-a$$#d.
Between those two tools, and Rob Mullers adjustment procedure, it is
possible to very accurately bring these coaches to as good as any '70's
vehicle can be. These coaches are not self driving devices like modern cars
with rack and pinion steering. They require constant driver attention. So,
that is the facts of the GMC MOTORHOME. Passenger car components adapted
for use in a 10,000 pound, 26 foot long, 6 wheels on the ground, slab sided
barn door. A sports car, it ain't.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Mon, Nov 15, 2021, 8:17 AM wrote:
> When I initially went through the process of centering the box a few
> months ago (without getting the shaft and steering wheel clocked properly),
> I
> checked the the Relay Arm and the Idler Arm and they were straight and
> parallel to the side rails when the wheels were straight ahead.
>
> Now, my plan is to set the steering wheel at the mid point, (won't be at
> 12 o'clock) which will of course point the wheels to one side due to the
> incorrect clocking of the shaft etc ..then, keeping the steering wheel
> where it is (and the steering box now centered), mark and disconnect the
> shaft.
> Next, keeping the steering box and wheels where they are, re-clock the
> shaft to match the steering wheel at 12.
> If all goes well, I would now have the steering wheel and box on center
> but with the wheels off center/not straight ahead, right?
>
> I don't know how much they would be off until I can do a visual check
> either today or tomorrow.
>
> So - can I use the adjustable drag link to straighten the wheels or not?
>
> Larry
> --
> Larry - Victoria BC -
>
> 1977 ex-Palm Beach "Ol' Leaky" 40,000 miles, PO said everything working
> but forgot the word NOT. Atwood helium fridge, water heater & furnace. SS
> exhaust system, Onan, Iota Converter, R134A, New fuel lines & heat
> exchange hoses
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
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