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Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched.
[GMCnet] Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched. [message #366129] Sat, 14 August 2021 02:17 Go to next message
BobDunahugh is currently offline  BobDunahugh   United States
Messages: 2465
Registered: October 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Karma: 11
Senior Member
A list of the qualities of a carb. There are NONE.
Before 1988. The carb was king. And high mileage engines were approaching 100,000 miles. Since the changeover to EFI in 1988. 200,000 miles and up are common. Owners get all over about oil. If you want longevity. It lives in EFI.
There are some nice EFI systems out there. Vtech, and Atomic work well. Great for close to home. Just hope that they don't fail. Just outside of a town called Nowhere Villa. Because you just might spend a week there. Counting power poles. For something to do. With the GM Howell. You'll get the part that day. Or the next morning for parts. Since putting a GM/Nowell EFI on. Never had to touch it. And the tail pipe is just pure clean.
Bob Dunahugh
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[GMCnet] Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched. [message #366130 is a reply to message #366129] Sat, 14 August 2021 11:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
Bob,
You and other people that understand the True EFI system and not a
glorified Squirt Gun unit.
Knowledgeable people: Walt Halley, Tom Hampton,Ken Henderson,Randy Van
Winkle ,Fred Hudspeth and three to 400 others that are running the Howell
bases unit with the EBL ECM with GM parts.
We at Applied sell ALL the brands, but get complaints that those Throttle
units are not getting
better mileage and lot are getting less. Why, is the distributor control/
Ignition timing.
Yes, there are slightly more wires to sensors to install, but well worth
it.

On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 12:17 AM Bob Dunahugh wrote:

> A list of the qualities of a carb. There are NONE.
> Before 1988. The carb was king. And high mileage engines were
> approaching 100,000 miles. Since the changeover to EFI in 1988. 200,000
> miles and up are common. Owners get all over about oil. If you want
> longevity. It lives in EFI.
> There are some nice EFI systems out there. Vtech, and Atomic work well.
> Great for close to home. Just hope that they don't fail. Just outside of a
> town called Nowhere Villa. Because you just might spend a week there.
> Counting power poles. For something to do. With the GM Howell. You'll get
> the part that day. Or the next morning for parts. Since putting a GM/Nowell
> EFI on. Never had to touch it. And the tail pipe is just pure clean.
> Bob Dunahugh
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>


--
Jim Kanomata ASE
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
[GMCnet] Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched. [message #366131 is a reply to message #366129] Sat, 14 August 2021 11:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobDunahugh is currently offline  BobDunahugh   United States
Messages: 2465
Registered: October 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Karma: 11
Senior Member
Milage is more in the correct timing. At various throttle position. That's my position. The EBL made the EFI even better. The short cut to destroying a good engine. Keep those junk, way out dated carbs on. That ship is sinking. Bob Dunahugh

________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2021 2:17 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: RE: Fuel injection question for those who have switched.

A list of the qualities of a carb. There are NONE.
Before 1988. The carb was king. And high mileage engines were approaching 100,000 miles. Since the changeover to EFI in 1988. 200,000 miles and up are common. Owners get all over about oil. If you want longevity. It lives in EFI.
There are some nice EFI systems out there. Vtech, and Atomic work well. Great for close to home. Just hope that they don't fail. Just outside of a town called Nowhere Villa. Because you just might spend a week there. Counting power poles. For something to do. With the GM Howell. You'll get the part that day. Or the next morning for parts. Since putting a GM/Nowell EFI on. Never had to touch it. And the tail pipe is just pure clean.
Bob Dunahugh
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[GMCnet] Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched. [message #366132 is a reply to message #366129] Sat, 14 August 2021 11:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
Senior Member
I understand the Howell system with EBL upgrade very well.
But , that being said, bolting adapter plates to a 4 barrel manifold
and then bolting a 2 barrel injector body to them, either the Holley or the
GM one just seems like we are going the wrong way. It raises the air
cleaner so it interferes with the hatch cover, and places it so far to the
rear that some serious interference issues arise with the HEI ignition cap.
And, it looks "Michael rodent" to me.
But, it runs O.K. after it is dialed in. And sensors are standard GM
items, easily found nearly everywhere we travel with our coaches, another
big plus for the Howell or the GM throttle bodies. It is a good system as
is, but personally, for me, there is room for improvement.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Sat, Aug 14, 2021, 9:33 AM Bob Dunahugh wrote:

> Milage is more in the correct timing. At various throttle position.
> That's my position. The EBL made the EFI even better. The short cut to
> destroying a good engine. Keep those junk, way out dated carbs on. That
> ship is sinking. Bob Dunahugh
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bob Dunahugh
> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2021 2:17 AM
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: RE: Fuel injection question for those who have switched.
>
> A list of the qualities of a carb. There are NONE.
> Before 1988. The carb was king. And high mileage engines were
> approaching 100,000 miles. Since the changeover to EFI in 1988. 200,000
> miles and up are common. Owners get all over about oil. If you want
> longevity. It lives in EFI.
> There are some nice EFI systems out there. Vtech, and Atomic work well.
> Great for close to home. Just hope that they don't fail. Just outside of a
> town called Nowhere Villa. Because you just might spend a week there.
> Counting power poles. For something to do. With the GM Howell. You'll get
> the part that day. Or the next morning for parts. Since putting a GM/Nowell
> EFI on. Never had to touch it. And the tail pipe is just pure clean.
> Bob Dunahugh
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:

[GMCnet] Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched. [message #366133 is a reply to message #366132] Sat, 14 August 2021 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
Our Kit does not mount high as we have an Adapter plate that overcomes that.
All that aside, those are minor when it comes to having full
electronic distributor control and parts availability.
You can mount those throttle body Squirt guns and have people complain
about mileage and being on side of road needing a factory part.
We have sold lot of ALL brands and type, so we do have some feel on this.
I have been playing with fuel injection since 1988 and have experianced all
the developments and utilized them on my Cad 540 with twin turbo set
up that has over 300, 000miles..

On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 9:48 AM James Hupy wrote:

> I understand the Howell system with EBL upgrade very well.
> But , that being said, bolting adapter plates to a 4 barrel manifold
> and then bolting a 2 barrel injector body to them, either the Holley or the
> GM one just seems like we are going the wrong way. It raises the air
> cleaner so it interferes with the hatch cover, and places it so far to the
> rear that some serious interference issues arise with the HEI ignition cap.
> And, it looks "Michael rodent" to me.
> But, it runs O.K. after it is dialed in. And sensors are standard GM
> items, easily found nearly everywhere we travel with our coaches, another
> big plus for the Howell or the GM throttle bodies. It is a good system as
> is, but personally, for me, there is room for improvement.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Sat, Aug 14, 2021, 9:33 AM Bob Dunahugh wrote:
>
>> Milage is more in the correct timing. At various throttle position.
>> That's my position. The EBL made the EFI even better. The short cut to
>> destroying a good engine. Keep those junk, way out dated carbs on. That
>> ship is sinking. Bob Dunahugh
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Bob Dunahugh
>> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2021 2:17 AM
>> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
>> Subject: RE: Fuel injection question for those who have switched.
>>
>> A list of the qualities of a carb. There are NONE.
>> Before 1988. The carb was king. And high mileage engines were
>> approaching 100,000 miles. Since the changeover to EFI in 1988. 200,000
>> miles and up are common. Owners get all over about oil. If you want
>> longevity. It lives in EFI.
>> There are some nice EFI systems out there. Vtech, and Atomic work well.
>> Great for close to home. Just hope that they don't fail. Just outside of
> a
>> town called Nowhere Villa. Because you just might spend a week there.
>> Counting power poles. For something to do. With the GM Howell. You'll get
>> the part that day. Or the next morning for parts. Since putting a
> GM/Nowell
>> EFI on. Never had to touch it. And the tail pipe is just pure clean.
>> Bob Dunahugh
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>


--
Jim Kanomata ASE
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:



Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Re: [GMCnet] Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched. [message #366135 is a reply to message #366132] Sat, 14 August 2021 13:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Van Vlack is currently offline  Bill Van Vlack   United States
Messages: 419
Registered: September 2015
Location: Guemes Island, Washington
Karma: 14
Senior Member
James Hupy wrote on Sat, 14 August 2021 11:48
I understand the Howell system with EBL upgrade very well.
But , that being said, bolting adapter plates to a 4 barrel manifold
and then bolting a 2 barrel injector body to them, either the Holley or the
GM one just seems like we are going the wrong way. It is a good system as
is, but personally, for me, there is room for improvement.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

So, basically, chuck a hunk of aluminum in a mill and machine out spots for four barrels that match the QJ manifold, injectors, FP regulator, IAC, and TPS?


Bill Van Vlack '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid November 2015.

[Updated on: Sat, 14 August 2021 14:05]

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Re: [GMCnet] Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched. [message #366148 is a reply to message #366129] Sat, 14 August 2021 19:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
Senior Member
OK, I am going to try again. I am in Chaumière in my back yard because we haven't had electric power for four days and the house internet is also down because Spectrum won't put a little generator on the amplifier and won't let me run power to it......

Now, what this started out about was that I am one of a very few people that got to run the very same engine with carburetor, TBI and port fuel. The real differences were too small to measure. Test engines are always run on the matrix was developed when they were in the phase 2 prototype stage. So, they were all production intent parts, but hand assembled.

This means that in spite of the advantages that an ECU could provide, these improvements did not express themselves.

Now, when we put that same engine in a vehicle for driveablity testing, then things changed, but honestly, not a lot. It was not until the knock sensor and ECU controlled distributor that real changes appeared and even then they were never seen in the test lab unless some off the wall crazed engineer went looking for what might happen when you get to places in the A/F/T load matrix that were not well defined. Engines are largely sold on the basis WOT horsepower, think about that. If we ran our coaches the way that engine was run on a dyno (maybe my dyno), there are two things that would happen (if you survived), your fuel rate would be very discouraging and you would probably be in a jail somewhere. So, can an EBL ECU and controlled spark fix this? You bet it can. A lot of this showed up in the early EPU road load testing, but the manufacturers answer was just to adjust the tuning to the EPA driving program and call that good. A wonderful demonstration of this was a car that I owned. It was a 2.3 Thunderbird turbo-coupe. Around town, that car was an absolute dog to drive, but get it out of the EPA driving program and it was a rocket ship. This was before the secret modification that the engineers all knew about. (That is a two beer story all on its own.) We also owned a 2.2 minivan that wore out the camshaft before it needed boring. If my son hadn't destroyed it with a lack of required maintenance, I might still be driving it.

An, no Bob, the longevity of the modern engines is not a result of the new controls. It is a result of the the fact that the US OEs were getting their respective asses kick soundly by the foreign companies that paid attention to materials and a manufacturing standards. Chaumière's engine had over 75k on it when #7 piston shed 120° of rings and this prompted me to break it open and replace the worn things. If I had had a real build book for the engine, I could have replaced that one piston and put it back in... (Hint, I didn't)

So, why EBL, a knock senso and new distributor? She runs so well as she is with the cam recommended by Dick and a carburetor that a friend that speaks fluent Rochester trimmed for me, that I just can bear to mess with it (and I have a limited budget). There is a knock sensor, and the wire it lead up and labeled, I just havent done anything with it yet.

I will allow that a lot of my recent interest has been repairing the damage related to the failed control arm putting us in the ditch at 60 MPH and the related damage. Not all of that has been managed to my satisfaction yet, but it will be. We feel we owe her that much at least.

One of my mentors along the way told that I should know that, "A waterman and his boat, they take care of each other - you know."

Matt - signing off from my person internet cafe


Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: [GMCnet] Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched. [message #366150 is a reply to message #366148] Sat, 14 August 2021 20:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
6cuda6 is currently offline  6cuda6   Canada
Messages: 975
Registered: June 2019
Karma: -6
Senior Member
Thanks Matt for the information and the insight into the engineering world of motors. I believe if one went with EFI, sensors and variable electronic distributor basic drivability should improve but the same results are there with a well working carb.

My question came about because of our last trip, with short 14 to 17% grades, the Old Switchback (our coach) just worked its @ss off and i thought it might be a worth while investment. It doesnt help that my navigator wife seems to be very proficiant at choosing secondary roads with BIG hills.

Being a mechanic and living by the modo that their is no replacement for displacement or forced asperation when it comes to power, i just need solid proof that tossing 2k on the table for EFI is going to improve things.....2k, when you can wrench for yourself buys you alot of motor parts, so it leaves me at the same point.....is it worth it when your running 9 to 1 compression, cast manifolds, small valve heads, restricted dual plane intake, terrible intake airflow due to clearence restriction with the hatch and only a dual injector TBI?




Matt Colie wrote on Sat, 14 August 2021 20:05
OK, I am going to try again. I am in Chaumière in my back yard because we haven't had electric power for four days and the house internet is also down because Spectrum won't put a little generator on the amplifier and won't let me run power to it......

Now, what this started out about was that I am one of a very few people that got to run the very same engine with carburetor, TBI and port fuel. The real differences were too small to measure. Test engines are always run on the matrix was developed when they were in the phase 2 prototype stage. So, they were all production intent parts, but hand assembled.

This means that in spite of the advantages that an ECU could provide, these improvements did not express themselves.

Now, when we put that same engine in a vehicle for driveablity testing, then things changed, but honestly, not a lot. It was not until the knock sensor and ECU controlled distributor that real changes appeared and even then they were never seen in the test lab unless some off the wall crazed engineer went looking for what might happen when you get to places in the A/F/T load matrix that were not well defined. Engines are largely sold on the basis WOT horsepower, think about that. If we ran our coaches the way that engine was run on a dyno (maybe my dyno), there are two things that would happen (if you survived), your fuel rate would be very discouraging and you would probably be in a jail somewhere. So, can an EBL ECU and controlled spark fix this? You bet it can. A lot of this showed up in the early EPU road load testing, but the manufacturers answer was just to adjust the tuning to the EPA driving program and call that good. A wonderful demonstration of this was a car that I owned. It was a 2.3 Thunderbird turbo-coupe. Around town, that car was an absolute dog to drive, but get it out of the EPA driving program and it was a rocket ship. This was before the secret modification that the engineers all knew about. (That is a two beer story all on its own.) We also owned a 2.2 minivan that wore out the camshaft before it needed boring. If my son hadn't destroyed it with a lack of required maintenance, I might still be driving it.

An, no Bob, the longevity of the modern engines is not a result of the new controls. It is a result of the the fact that the US OEs were getting their respective asses kick soundly by the foreign companies that paid attention to materials and a manufacturing standards. Chaumière's engine had over 75k on it when #7 piston shed 120° of rings and this prompted me to break it open and replace the worn things. If I had had a real build book for the engine, I could have replaced that one piston and put it back in... (Hint, I didn't)

So, why EBL, a knock senso and new distributor? She runs so well as she is with the cam recommended by Dick and a carburetor that a friend that speaks fluent Rochester trimmed for me, that I just can bear to mess with it (and I have a limited budget). There is a knock sensor, and the wire it lead up and labeled, I just havent done anything with it yet.

I will allow that a lot of my recent interest has been repairing the damage related to the failed control arm putting us in the ditch at 60 MPH and the related damage. Not all of that has been managed to my satisfaction yet, but it will be. We feel we owe her that much at least.

One of my mentors along the way told that I should know that, "A waterman and his boat, they take care of each other - you know."

Matt - signing off from my person internet cafe


Rich Mondor, Brockville, ON 77 Hughes 2600

[Updated on: Sat, 14 August 2021 20:00]

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[GMCnet] Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched. [message #366153 is a reply to message #366131] Sun, 15 August 2021 01:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobDunahugh is currently offline  BobDunahugh   United States
Messages: 2465
Registered: October 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Karma: 11
Senior Member
Matt. We need to agree. That we have brought up two angles to the same point. Materials, and oils have come a long way. EFI equipped engines. Will have cleaner crankcases, and oil. With the carb. My engine oil was black at 3000 miles. With the GM/Howell EFI/EBL. The oil is translucent at 3000 miles.. That black is a byproduct of combustion. Carbon. Carbon is also a great abrasive. Every 2 years. For the last 18 years of owning a GMC. I've used my inspection camera. To look at my pistons, valves, and combustion chambers. They became a lot cleaner. With the EFI. You can't get a tissue stained. By whipping the inside of my tail pipe. Plus. I only use ethanol gas.
(As a fun note. Interesting little facts. The Corvair engines operated better. When unleaded fuels were introduced. You can run E-85 gas in them. With a minor timing change. And a main Jet change. Some engines had 2 carburetors. Some had 4 carbs. Or a turbo. If you have an issue with one side of the engine. You can shut that side off. And drive home on the other side. It's a flat 6. The stock crank, and rods. Can run up to 8000 RPM's. And yes. I've twisted the output end of the crankshaft off a few times while shifting. The stock head temp gauge in the dash. Starts at 200. The middle number is 400. The high number is 600 degrees. My road race engines are at 173 cubic inches. Most dino runs. Come in the 240, to 263 HP. Carb. No turbo. Fun little engines. About 9 years ago. A few of us. Rented Talladega for the day. My 69 Yenko. Had an average lap speed of 142.2. At just under 8000 RPMs in 4th. Ford had that car built. Have the documentation of that.
Bob Dunahugh.
________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2021 11:33 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched.

Milage is more in the correct timing. At various throttle position. That's my position. The EBL made the EFI even better. The short cut to destroying a good engine. Keep those junk, way out dated carbs on. That ship is sinking. Bob Dunahugh

________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2021 2:17 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: RE: Fuel injection question for those who have switched.

A list of the qualities of a carb. There are NONE.
Before 1988. The carb was king. And high mileage engines were approaching 100,000 miles. Since the changeover to EFI in 1988. 200,000 miles and up are common. Owners get all over about oil. If you want longevity. It lives in EFI.
There are some nice EFI systems out there. Vtech, and Atomic work well. Great for close to home. Just hope that they don't fail. Just outside of a town called Nowhere Villa. Because you just might spend a week there. Counting power poles. For something to do. With the GM Howell. You'll get the part that day. Or the next morning for parts. Since putting a GM/Nowell EFI on. Never had to touch it. And the tail pipe is just pure clean.
Bob Dunahugh
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[GMCnet] Re: Fuel Injection question for those who have switched. [message #366157 is a reply to message #366129] Sun, 15 August 2021 08:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobDunahugh is currently offline  BobDunahugh   United States
Messages: 2465
Registered: October 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Karma: 11
Senior Member
The Q- jet has always been considered to be. The finest carb ever built. I agree 100 %. As to fuel to air ratios. In its 3 ranges. Idle, midrange, and power. To get it back to its original performance. A rebuild must be put on a flow bench. For true calibration. I know of no one that does that anymore. Otherwise. Truely. The carb just got cleaned. And some new parts installed. For our application. The GM/Howell . Is our best choice. By what has been said here in the past. Our new fuels are blended to be used in an EFI system. Not in the venturi of a carb. The Q-jet can never be rebuilt. To come close to the performance of EFI, with proper spark control.
Bob Dunahugh
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[GMCnet] Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched. [message #366169 is a reply to message #366153] Mon, 16 August 2021 09:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Keith V is currently offline  Keith V   United States
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
Senior Member
The ONLY issue with using the GM TB is the spreadbore intake it has to bolt to.
The correct fix would be a redesigned intake that took the TB directly.
There is absolutely no reason to run big/little injectors, our engines don't make that much power to need that much fuel control.
Also the stock air cleaner should be replaced, it's small and noisy. Put the Specter aluminum hat on and lower your cockpit Db esp with a remote air cleaner like the duramax unit.
________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2021 1:25 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched.

Matt. We need to agree. That we have brought up two angles to the same point. Materials, and oils have come a long way. EFI equipped engines. Will have cleaner crankcases, and oil. With the carb. My engine oil was black at 3000 miles. With the GM/Howell EFI/EBL. The oil is translucent at 3000 miles.. That black is a byproduct of combustion. Carbon. Carbon is also a great abrasive. Every 2 years. For the last 18 years of owning a GMC. I've used my inspection camera. To look at my pistons, valves, and combustion chambers. They became a lot cleaner. With the EFI. You can't get a tissue stained. By whipping the inside of my tail pipe. Plus. I only use ethanol gas.
(As a fun note. Interesting little facts. The Corvair engines operated better. When unleaded fuels were introduced. You can run E-85 gas in them. With a minor timing change. And a main Jet change. Some engines had 2 carburetors. Some had 4 carbs. Or a turbo. If you have an issue with one side of the engine. You can shut that side off. And drive home on the other side. It's a flat 6. The stock crank, and rods. Can run up to 8000 RPM's. And yes. I've twisted the output end of the crankshaft off a few times while shifting. The stock head temp gauge in the dash. Starts at 200. The middle number is 400. The high number is 600 degrees. My road race engines are at 173 cubic inches. Most dino runs. Come in the 240, to 263 HP. Carb. No turbo. Fun little engines. About 9 years ago. A few of us. Rented Talladega for the day. My 69 Yenko. Had an average lap speed of 142.2. At just under 8000 RPMs in 4th. Ford had that car built. Have the documentation of that.
Bob Dunahugh.
________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2021 11:33 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched.

Milage is more in the correct timing. At various throttle position. That's my position. The EBL made the EFI even better. The short cut to destroying a good engine. Keep those junk, way out dated carbs on. That ship is sinking. Bob Dunahugh

________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2021 2:17 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: RE: Fuel injection question for those who have switched.

A list of the qualities of a carb. There are NONE.
Before 1988. The carb was king. And high mileage engines were approaching 100,000 miles. Since the changeover to EFI in 1988. 200,000 miles and up are common. Owners get all over about oil. If you want longevity. It lives in EFI.
There are some nice EFI systems out there. Vtech, and Atomic work well. Great for close to home. Just hope that they don't fail. Just outside of a town called Nowhere Villa. Because you just might spend a week there. Counting power poles. For something to do. With the GM Howell. You'll get the part that day. Or the next morning for parts. Since putting a GM/Nowell EFI on. Never had to touch it. And the tail pipe is just pure clean.
Bob Dunahugh
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Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
[GMCnet] Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched. [message #366171 is a reply to message #366169] Mon, 16 August 2021 10:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
Senior Member
Yes, I have done all the work arounds to jury rig another remote air
cleaner to take the place of what the factory designed for the air flow
requirements of a spreadbore quadrajet Carburetor that flows waaayyy more
air than a square bore holley. So, the stock air cleaner was entirely
adequate as engineered.
That still leaves us with a 2 barrel throttle body "mickey moused"
onto a spreadbore intake manifold with adapters and ill fitting gaskets and
lots of silicone sealer.
If you think that is an improvement over a spreadbore 4 barrel
throttle body, than I am wasting my time trying to convince you otherwise.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Mon, Aug 16, 2021, 7:56 AM Keith V wrote:

> The ONLY issue with using the GM TB is the spreadbore intake it has to
> bolt to.
> The correct fix would be a redesigned intake that took the TB directly.
> There is absolutely no reason to run big/little injectors, our engines
> don't make that much power to need that much fuel control.
> Also the stock air cleaner should be replaced, it's small and noisy. Put
> the Specter aluminum hat on and lower your cockpit Db esp with a remote air
> cleaner like the duramax unit.
> ________________________________
> From: Bob Dunahugh
> Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2021 1:25 AM
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: [GMCnet] Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched.
>
> Matt. We need to agree. That we have brought up two angles to the same
> point. Materials, and oils have come a long way. EFI equipped engines.
> Will have cleaner crankcases, and oil. With the carb. My engine oil was
> black at 3000 miles. With the GM/Howell EFI/EBL. The oil is translucent at
> 3000 miles.. That black is a byproduct of combustion. Carbon. Carbon is
> also a great abrasive. Every 2 years. For the last 18 years of owning a
> GMC. I've used my inspection camera. To look at my pistons, valves, and
> combustion chambers. They became a lot cleaner. With the EFI. You can't
> get a tissue stained. By whipping the inside of my tail pipe. Plus. I only
> use ethanol gas.
> (As a fun note. Interesting little facts. The Corvair engines
> operated better. When unleaded fuels were introduced. You can run E-85 gas
> in them. With a minor timing change. And a main Jet change. Some engines
> had 2 carburetors. Some had 4 carbs. Or a turbo. If you have an issue with
> one side of the engine. You can shut that side off. And drive home on the
> other side. It's a flat 6. The stock crank, and rods. Can run up to 8000
> RPM's. And yes. I've twisted the output end of the crankshaft off a few
> times while shifting. The stock head temp gauge in the dash. Starts at 200.
> The middle number is 400. The high number is 600 degrees. My road race
> engines are at 173 cubic inches. Most dino runs. Come in the 240, to 263
> HP. Carb. No turbo. Fun little engines. About 9 years ago. A few of us.
> Rented Talladega for the day. My 69 Yenko. Had an average lap speed of
> 142.2. At just under 8000 RPMs in 4th. Ford had that car built. Have the
> documentation of that.
> Bob Dunahugh.
> ________________________________
> From: Bob Dunahugh
> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2021 11:33 AM
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched.
>
> Milage is more in the correct timing. At various throttle position.
> That's my position. The EBL made the EFI even better. The short cut to
> destroying a good engine. Keep those junk, way out dated carbs on. That
> ship is sinking. Bob Dunahugh
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bob Dunahugh
> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2021 2:17 AM
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: RE: Fuel injection question for those who have switched.
>
> A list of the qualities of a carb. There are NONE.
> Before 1988. The carb was king. And high mileage engines were
> approaching 100,000 miles. Since the changeover to EFI in 1988. 200,000
> miles and up are common. Owners get all over about oil. If you want
> longevity. It lives in EFI.
> There are some nice EFI systems out there. Vtech, and Atomic work well.
> Great for close to home. Just hope that they don't fail. Just outside of a
> town called Nowhere Villa. Because you just might spend a week there.
> Counting power poles. For something to do. With the GM Howell. You'll get
> the part that day. Or the next morning for parts. Since putting a GM/Nowell
> EFI on. Never had to touch it. And the tail pipe is just pure clean.
> Bob Dunahugh
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
_______________________________________________
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[GMCnet] Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched. [message #366175 is a reply to message #366169] Mon, 16 August 2021 11:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Biggamehunter is currently offline  Biggamehunter   United States
Messages: 17
Registered: April 2021
Karma: 0
Junior Member
For those in the know, why not use the GM adaptor from the BBC truck  TBI set up . No RTV needed . Uses  hot water to help warm up and no throttle body icing. then you can use a Specter carb hat and a remote air cleaner.
Michael Orlandi 

On Monday, August 16, 2021, 07:56:35 AM PDT, Keith V wrote:

The ONLY issue with using the GM TB is the spreadbore intake it has to bolt to.
The correct fix would be a redesigned intake that took the TB directly.
There is absolutely no reason to run big/little injectors, our engines don't make that much power to need that much fuel control.
Also the stock air cleaner should be replaced, it's small and noisy. Put the Specter aluminum hat on and lower your cockpit Db esp with a remote air cleaner like the duramax unit.
________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2021 1:25 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched.

Matt. We need to agree. That we have brought up two angles to the same point.  Materials, and oils have come a long way.  EFI equipped engines. Will have cleaner crankcases, and oil. With the carb. My engine oil was black at 3000 miles. With the GM/Howell EFI/EBL. The oil is translucent at 3000 miles.. That black is a byproduct of combustion. Carbon. Carbon is also a great abrasive. Every 2 years. For the last 18 years of owning a GMC. I've used my inspection camera. To look at my pistons, valves, and combustion chambers.  They became a lot cleaner. With the EFI. You can't get a tissue stained. By whipping the inside of my tail pipe. Plus. I only use ethanol gas.
    (As a fun note.  Interesting little facts. The Corvair engines operated better. When unleaded fuels were introduced.  You can run E-85 gas in them. With a minor timing change. And a main Jet change. Some engines had 2 carburetors. Some had 4 carbs. Or a turbo. If you have an issue with one side of the engine. You can shut that side off. And drive home on the other side. It's a flat 6. The stock crank, and rods. Can run up to 8000 RPM's. And yes. I've twisted the output end of the crankshaft off a few times while shifting. The stock head temp gauge in the dash. Starts at 200. The middle number is 400. The high number is 600 degrees. My road race engines are at 173 cubic inches.  Most dino runs. Come in the 240, to 263 HP. Carb. No turbo. Fun little engines. About 9 years ago. A few of us. Rented Talladega for the day. My 69 Yenko. Had an average lap speed of 142.2. At just under 8000 RPMs in 4th. Ford had that car built. Have the documentation of that.
Bob Dunahugh.
________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2021 11:33 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched.

Milage is more in the correct timing. At various throttle position.  That's my position. The EBL made the EFI even better. The short cut to destroying a good engine. Keep those junk, way out dated carbs on. That ship is sinking.  Bob Dunahugh

________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2021 2:17 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: RE: Fuel injection question for those who have switched.

A list of the qualities of a carb.  There are NONE.
  Before 1988. The carb was king. And high mileage engines were approaching 100,000 miles. Since the changeover to EFI in 1988. 200,000 miles and up are common.  Owners get all over about oil. If you want longevity. It lives in EFI.
There are some nice EFI systems out there. Vtech, and Atomic work well. Great for close to home. Just hope that they don't fail. Just outside of a town called Nowhere Villa. Because you just might spend a week there. Counting power poles. For something to do. With the GM Howell. You'll get the part that day. Or the next morning for parts. Since putting a GM/Nowell EFI on. Never had to touch it. And the tail pipe is just pure clean.
Bob Dunahugh
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Michael Orlandi Fairfield, Ca 1973 GMC Canyonlands Lenzi knuckles/ hubs
[GMCnet] Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched. [message #366176 is a reply to message #366175] Mon, 16 August 2021 12:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Keith V is currently offline  Keith V   United States
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
Senior Member
If I remember correctly, It's pretty thick and I'd rather have the spacer betwix the TB and the intake hat.
All thats needed for an adapter is a piece of 1/4 or 5/16 plate with some holes in it. I made my own. Works great
________________________________
From: MICHAEL ORLANDI
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021 11:34 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched.

For those in the know, why not use the GM adaptor from the BBC truck TBI set up . No RTV needed . Uses hot water to help warm up and no throttle body icing. then you can use a Specter carb hat and a remote air cleaner.
Michael Orlandi

On Monday, August 16, 2021, 07:56:35 AM PDT, Keith V wrote:

The ONLY issue with using the GM TB is the spreadbore intake it has to bolt to.
The correct fix would be a redesigned intake that took the TB directly.
There is absolutely no reason to run big/little injectors, our engines don't make that much power to need that much fuel control.
Also the stock air cleaner should be replaced, it's small and noisy. Put the Specter aluminum hat on and lower your cockpit Db esp with a remote air cleaner like the duramax unit.
________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2021 1:25 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched.

Matt. We need to agree. That we have brought up two angles to the same point. Materials, and oils have come a long way. EFI equipped engines. Will have cleaner crankcases, and oil. With the carb. My engine oil was black at 3000 miles. With the GM/Howell EFI/EBL. The oil is translucent at 3000 miles.. That black is a byproduct of combustion. Carbon. Carbon is also a great abrasive. Every 2 years. For the last 18 years of owning a GMC. I've used my inspection camera. To look at my pistons, valves, and combustion chambers. They became a lot cleaner. With the EFI. You can't get a tissue stained. By whipping the inside of my tail pipe. Plus. I only use ethanol gas.
(As a fun note. Interesting little facts. The Corvair engines operated better. When unleaded fuels were introduced. You can run E-85 gas in them. With a minor timing change. And a main Jet change. Some engines had 2 carburetors. Some had 4 carbs. Or a turbo. If you have an issue with one side of the engine. You can shut that side off. And drive home on the other side. It's a flat 6. The stock crank, and rods. Can run up to 8000 RPM's. And yes. I've twisted the output end of the crankshaft off a few times while shifting. The stock head temp gauge in the dash. Starts at 200. The middle number is 400. The high number is 600 degrees. My road race engines are at 173 cubic inches. Most dino runs. Come in the 240, to 263 HP. Carb. No turbo. Fun little engines. About 9 years ago. A few of us. Rented Talladega for the day. My 69 Yenko. Had an average lap speed of 142.2. At just under 8000 RPMs in 4th. Ford had that car built. Have the documentation of that.
Bob Dunahugh.
________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2021 11:33 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched.

Milage is more in the correct timing. At various throttle position. That's my position. The EBL made the EFI even better. The short cut to destroying a good engine. Keep those junk, way out dated carbs on. That ship is sinking. Bob Dunahugh

________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2021 2:17 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: RE: Fuel injection question for those who have switched.

A list of the qualities of a carb. There are NONE.
Before 1988. The carb was king. And high mileage engines were approaching 100,000 miles. Since the changeover to EFI in 1988. 200,000 miles and up are common. Owners get all over about oil. If you want longevity. It lives in EFI.
There are some nice EFI systems out there. Vtech, and Atomic work well. Great for close to home. Just hope that they don't fail. Just outside of a town called Nowhere Villa. Because you just might spend a week there. Counting power poles. For something to do. With the GM Howell. You'll get the part that day. Or the next morning for parts. Since putting a GM/Nowell EFI on. Never had to touch it. And the tail pipe is just pure clean.
Bob Dunahugh
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Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
[GMCnet] Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched. [message #366182 is a reply to message #366176] Mon, 16 August 2021 18:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
Your coach runs low RPM and with the full electronic distributor the two
barrel does very well even with the adapter.
This is not a racing engine set up.
I believe there was a dyno run done on the unit and it surpassed the Quadra
jet as the full electronic distributor did a lot to over come the flow
issue.

On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 10:46 AM Keith V wrote:

> If I remember correctly, It's pretty thick and I'd rather have the spacer
> betwix the TB and the intake hat.
> All thats needed for an adapter is a piece of 1/4 or 5/16 plate with some
> holes in it. I made my own. Works great
> ________________________________
> From: MICHAEL ORLANDI
> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021 11:34 AM
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: [GMCnet] Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched.
>
> For those in the know, why not use the GM adaptor from the BBC truck TBI
> set up . No RTV needed . Uses hot water to help warm up and no throttle
> body icing. then you can use a Specter carb hat and a remote air cleaner.
> Michael Orlandi
>
> On Monday, August 16, 2021, 07:56:35 AM PDT, Keith V my427v8@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> The ONLY issue with using the GM TB is the spreadbore intake it has to
> bolt to.
> The correct fix would be a redesigned intake that took the TB directly.
> There is absolutely no reason to run big/little injectors, our engines
> don't make that much power to need that much fuel control.
> Also the stock air cleaner should be replaced, it's small and noisy. Put
> the Specter aluminum hat on and lower your cockpit Db esp with a remote air
> cleaner like the duramax unit.
> ________________________________
> From: Bob Dunahugh
> Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2021 1:25 AM
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: [GMCnet] Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched.
>
> Matt. We need to agree. That we have brought up two angles to the same
> point. Materials, and oils have come a long way. EFI equipped engines.
> Will have cleaner crankcases, and oil. With the carb. My engine oil was
> black at 3000 miles. With the GM/Howell EFI/EBL. The oil is translucent at
> 3000 miles.. That black is a byproduct of combustion. Carbon. Carbon is
> also a great abrasive. Every 2 years. For the last 18 years of owning a
> GMC. I've used my inspection camera. To look at my pistons, valves, and
> combustion chambers. They became a lot cleaner. With the EFI. You can't
> get a tissue stained. By whipping the inside of my tail pipe. Plus. I only
> use ethanol gas.
> (As a fun note. Interesting little facts. The Corvair engines
> operated better. When unleaded fuels were introduced. You can run E-85 gas
> in them. With a minor timing change. And a main Jet change. Some engines
> had 2 carburetors. Some had 4 carbs. Or a turbo. If you have an issue with
> one side of the engine. You can shut that side off. And drive home on the
> other side. It's a flat 6. The stock crank, and rods. Can run up to 8000
> RPM's. And yes. I've twisted the output end of the crankshaft off a few
> times while shifting. The stock head temp gauge in the dash. Starts at 200.
> The middle number is 400. The high number is 600 degrees. My road race
> engines are at 173 cubic inches. Most dino runs. Come in the 240, to 263
> HP. Carb. No turbo. Fun little engines. About 9 years ago. A few of us.
> Rented Talladega for the day. My 69 Yenko. Had an average lap speed of
> 142.2. At just under 8000 RPMs in 4th. Ford had that car built. Have the
> documentation of that.
> Bob Dunahugh.
> ________________________________
> From: Bob Dunahugh
> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2021 11:33 AM
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched.
>
> Milage is more in the correct timing. At various throttle position.
> That's my position. The EBL made the EFI even better. The short cut to
> destroying a good engine. Keep those junk, way out dated carbs on. That
> ship is sinking. Bob Dunahugh
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bob Dunahugh
> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2021 2:17 AM
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: RE: Fuel injection question for those who have switched.
>
> A list of the qualities of a carb. There are NONE.
> Before 1988. The carb was king. And high mileage engines were
> approaching 100,000 miles. Since the changeover to EFI in 1988. 200,000
> miles and up are common. Owners get all over about oil. If you want
> longevity. It lives in EFI.
> There are some nice EFI systems out there. Vtech, and Atomic work well.
> Great for close to home. Just hope that they don't fail. Just outside of a
> town called Nowhere Villa. Because you just might spend a week there.
> Counting power poles. For something to do. With the GM Howell. You'll get
> the part that day. Or the next morning for parts. Since putting a GM/Nowell
> EFI on. Never had to touch it. And the tail pipe is just pure clean.
> Bob Dunahugh
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>


--
Jim Kanomata ASE
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Re: [GMCnet] Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched. [message #366911 is a reply to message #366129] Tue, 21 September 2021 16:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thigh19 is currently offline  thigh19   United States
Messages: 92
Registered: July 2019
Location: Vancouver Wa
Karma: 1
Member
Okay, the Howell fuel injection is the greatest think in the world, I get it. Now to anger a few, I’m using the Fitech fuel injection on 2 of my vehicles, one being my 73 Sequoia, and have had no problems once I figured out the return line. I know I won’t be able to change anyone’s mind on this topic, but for the cost of the Howell system, I can buy 3 Fitech complete systems.
Re: [GMCnet] Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched. [message #366913 is a reply to message #366911] Tue, 21 September 2021 18:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lqqkatjon is currently offline  lqqkatjon   United States
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
Senior Member
Fwiw. I did not buy a kit and came out pretty much the same cost of a fi-tech. Maybe a couple hundred more if I add in the tablet, and the other bells and whistles like fuel
Pressure gauge, my Bluetooth wide band o2 and such.



Jon Roche 75 palm beach EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now. St. Cloud, MN http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
Re: [GMCnet] Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched. [message #366928 is a reply to message #366911] Wed, 22 September 2021 20:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
Senior Member
thigh19 wrote on Tue, 21 September 2021 17:49
Okay, the Howell fuel injection is the greatest think in the world, I get it. Now to anger a few, I’m using the Fitech fuel injection on 2 of my vehicles, one being my 73 Sequoia, and have had no problems once I figured out the return line. I know I won’t be able to change anyone’s mind on this topic, but for the cost of the Howell system, I can buy 3 Fitech complete systems.
Tom,

I'm glad that you can buy all those systems, but I have two problems.
First is that Fitech is woefully lacking specifics on the website.
While I do see a O2 sensor there, there is no indication of how it is used.
Second, there is no indication that a knock sensor is there, without the loop closure on knock to optimize timing, you do not have engine management, just a fancy altitude corrected carburetor.

If you can think of an engine management system. If I haven't owned one, was only because my job required that I drive one the company provided.

The reason I still run a quadra-bog (as we call the early generation) is that mine works well. I rarely go over 9KMSL and it still works. Changing out of a working igntion that reliably fires 0.065 plugs would only have charm if it could controlled by an integral and self calbrating sensor. Sometime I would like to tell you what we did to include a working knock sensor in any engine family. It is not all that simple to include such a thing.

Matt writing from the International


Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
[GMCnet] Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched. [message #366931 is a reply to message #366928] Wed, 22 September 2021 21:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
Tom,
Apparently you do not know that a Fi Tec lacks Distributor control .
Same as what I ran on my cad back in 1988.

On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 6:12 PM Matt Colie wrote:

> thigh19 wrote on Tue, 21 September 2021 17:49
>> Okay, the Howell fuel injection is the greatest think in the world, I
> get it. Now to anger a few, I’m using the Fitech fuel injection on 2 of my
>> vehicles, one being my 73 Sequoia, and have had no problems once I
> figured out the return line. I know I won’t be able to change anyone’s mind
>> on this topic, but for the cost of the Howell system, I can buy 3 Fitech
> complete systems.
>
> Tom,
>
> I'm glad that you can buy all those systems, but I have two problems.
> First is that Fitech is woefully lacking specifics on the website.
> While I do see a O2 sensor there, there is no indication of how it is
> used.
> Second, there is no indication that a knock sensor is there, without the
> loop closure on knock to optimize timing, you do not have engine management,
> just a fancy altitude corrected carburetor.
>
> If you can think of an engine management system. If I haven't owned one,
> was only because my job required that I drive one the company provided.
>
> The reason I still run a quadra-bog (as we call the early generation) is
> that mine works well. I rarely go over 9KMSL and it still works. Changing
> out of a working igntion that reliably fires 0.065 plugs would only have
> charm if it could controlled by an integral and self calbrating sensor.
> Sometime I would like to tell you what we did to include a working knock
> sensor in any engine family. It is not all that simple to include such a
> thing.
>
> Matt writing from the International
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL,
> GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum
> Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>


--
Jim Kanomata ASE
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:


Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Re: [GMCnet] Re: Fuel injection question for those who have switched. [message #367066 is a reply to message #366129] Tue, 05 October 2021 18:40 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
jhbridges is currently offline  jhbridges   United States
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
Senior Member
Ladiea, I got a couple questions here. My current coach fits the MSD Atomic. It was a California coach, and I was given to believe CARB would accept the MSD Atomic. Holley still sells them alongside the Sniper, perhaps because it's certified?
Next up, will CARB accept the Howell setup? If not, it's gonna be relegated to older coaches in California.
Next, there was and may still be an outboard timing box to use with the MSD. Would this give the same improvement as the EBL setup with the Howell? My coach has two wideband O2 sensors, one feeding the ratio gauge on the dash and the other feeding the MSD Atomic injection. For all of Jim's mentions, the GM throttle body is the same squirt setup as the all in one units, just differently and perhaps more closely controlled.
Now I put many miles - six digits - on a Kia with direct injection. Gave it to the kid a year ago, it's still doing well. Replaced it with another Kia, this'n is port injected. The direct injection is the ultimate answer, as long as the proper materials are used in the engine to overcome the lack of wet intake valve stems. The Kia was the same displacement as my Datsun cammer wagon from the late 60s. Modern manufacturing, camming, and control give a 35% power increase in a more reliable and longer lived engine. For an eiohtfold price increase over 45 years.

--johnny


Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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