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| Fridge [message #362121] |
Sun, 31 January 2021 08:40  |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
Karma: -1
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Sorry guys, I know this subject has been beat to death but I wanted to get everyone’s input on it. I am debating about a fridge upgrade to a 2 way propane fridge but am starting to see and read some scary stuff pertaining to fires with them. So I’be got a very dependable fridge that I was told by the PO they had put a new high efficient cooling unit and compressor in. Considering the safety of the all electric fridge is there a better way to maintain its running on a off grid situation. Solar panels, small quiet portable generator? It does have a healthy 6k Oman that I had a full work over, new panel and gaskets and seals, carb rebuilt. Only had 300 hrs on it when I bought it but just time had taken its toll. Anyhow it’s healthy.
Just to give some background on this subject matter I’ve been debating with myself on going all in on this motorhome and get it where I want it for long trips to national parks, or just start looking for a good used diesel pusher that’s give a bit more livable space and more umph going up the mountains and the brakes as well. Well in looking I came across some salvage RV that had some fires that did some substantial damage to the skin and substructure of the coach around the fridge. Just got me rethinking on this.
Thanks,
TG
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
[Updated on: Sun, 31 January 2021 08:56] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Fridge [message #362122 is a reply to message #362121] |
Sun, 31 January 2021 09:55  |
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Richard RV
Messages: 631
Registered: July 2012
Location: Full-timer for 12 years, ...
Karma: -17
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An RV salvage yard will show you all the different ways an RV can burn. A visit is an education and eye opening, but it's a small subset of RV deaths. As far as I know there are exactly zero RVs, or any vehicle for that matter, that are immune to fire, and they all have their susceptibilities. Far more RVs die from leaks and rotted wood than from fires, but it is essential that owners are aware where fires are likely to start and to pay extra attention to inspection and maintenance of those areas.
Propane refrigerator fires are most commonly due to lack of due diligence - frequent inspection and maintenance is mandatory. Same goes for electrical and engine systems.
Diesel pushers can burn at the back where the motor is and where the exhaust extends up inside the rear corner. If they're lucky they only lose the back bedroom - still enough to total a coach. I saw a nifty making-lemonade-from-lemons burned DP at Arizona RV Salvage in Phoenix. Instead of rebuilding the rear of the bus they cut off the rear bedroom and put in a 5th wheel hitch - the combined length was about 60' or 65'.
Mac the Firefight guy gave a seminar in Quartzsite to a group of 4x4 towing DPers where he informed the group that a common cause of DP fires was a passenger side (IIRC) front tire blowout. My thoughts at that - say what...? It seems that the front radiator's coolant lines are susceptible to a flailing 22.5" steel belt from a blowout, and antifreeze does burn, even a 50/50 mix (water is boiled off).
There are trade-offs in everything. Propane is great for boondocking, especially in colder weather. There may be a GMCer who boondocks with electric heat, but I don't know of any and if they do they have a lot invested in batteries and solar panels and still have to run the generator every day.
Tom, is the new compressor in your refrigerator a Danfoss? The Danfoss compressors are very efficient and used by most of the refrigerator manufacturers, and those refrigerators are popular with boaters. Cue Matt Colie.
Richard
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach under construction;
‘76 Edgemont waiting its turn
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| Re: Fridge [message #362123 is a reply to message #362121] |
Sun, 31 January 2021 10:20 |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
Karma: -1
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Richard, great write up. This certainly makes sense. It does relieve my mind a bit on doing a propane fridge. As far as what kind of compressor I have I would imagine it’s not the latest and greatest because I purchased the GMC in 2000. So I would think it’s not the absolute most efficient. I have read about routing the propane line to avoid the wheel well in case of a steel belt blowout. The other concerning part is the venting of my fridge space. I do have a vent on the side of the coach at the fridge compartment, along with a vent at the roof above. But the vent on the side of the compartment is above the floor by 4 inches or so. In that I think I will need to drill holes in the floor to vent out any propane from any leaks. This is the part that kinda spooks me. I guess maybe I can see if there is a propane sniffer that can send a alarm by Bluetooth to a alarm inside the coach as well to my phone?? Any chance of such thing?
Thanks
TG
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
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| Re: Fridge [message #362126 is a reply to message #362121] |
Sun, 31 January 2021 14:10 |
Tom Katzenberger
Messages: 399
Registered: June 2019
Location: Kingsville, MD
Karma: 4
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Wonderful points on safety! Thank you Guys.
Tom & Oki Katzenberger,
Kingsville, Maryland,
1977 23' Birchaven, 455 C.I.D., Micro Level, Howell EBL-EFI Spark Control, Macerator, York Air Compressor, 6 Wheel Disc, Quadra Bag, Onan W/Bovee Ignition
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| Re: Fridge [message #362127 is a reply to message #362123] |
Sun, 31 January 2021 16:05 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Most fridges are not installed
Properly. Even at factory.
They are massive massive numbers of propane fridges that do not catch fire.
If installed properly, maintained, and any recalls dealt with. i would(and do as i have a dometic rm2652 w way fridge in my gmc) do not loose any sleep worrying about a fridge
Fire. You can always add fire supression if you want too.
Propane fridge in my opinion is the way to go for boondocking/off grid. There are some newer all electric fridges that do well, but are twice the cost of a 2 way absorption fridge.
Gmc will get you more places to camp because of it’s size and maneuvering. A diesel pusher will have more room inside and also climb and tow thing better.
But I dont think finacially you can beat a gmc over a diesel pusher.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fridge [message #362133 is a reply to message #362127] |
Sun, 31 January 2021 23:24 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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The NEW units have overcome that fire issue.
Lot of the GMC owners are storing combustals in the Refrigerator rear
compartment.
Put up an separator and keep them at least 2-3 " away from the hot spot.
On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 2:06 PM Jon Roche via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Most fridges are not installed
> Properly. Even at factory.
>
> They are massive massive numbers of propane fridges that do not catch
> fire.
>
> If installed properly, maintained, and any recalls dealt with. i
> would(and do as i have a dometic rm2652 w way fridge in my gmc) do not
> loose any
> sleep worrying about a fridge
> Fire. You can always add fire supression if you want too.
>
>
> Propane fridge in my opinion is the way to go for boondocking/off grid.
> There are some newer all electric fridges that do well, but are twice the
> cost of a 2 way absorption fridge.
>
>
> Gmc will get you more places to camp because of it’s size and
> maneuvering. A diesel pusher will have more room inside and also climb
> and tow
> thing better.
>
> But I dont think finacially you can beat a gmc over a diesel pusher.
> --
> Jon Roche
> 75 palm beach
> EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
> St. Cloud, MN
> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fridge [message #362136 is a reply to message #362133] |
Mon, 01 February 2021 09:07 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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I'm guilty of storing a LOT of stuff in the Dometic RM2652 compartment of
my 23': A 1-1/2hp 120vac air compressor (repackaged Sears) and coiled 25'
hose, a 3+ton bottle jack, a couple of 25' extension cords, wheel chocks,
and a couple of 4x4 blocks for shoring. Nothing highly combustible and all
separated from the back of the refer with an expanded metal "fence" by
about 3". The recessed floor of the compartment is ventilated with 3
screened 1" holes in it to prevent trapped LPG.
JWID for 20 years w/o problems.
Ken H.
On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 12:25 AM Jim Kanomata via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> The NEW units have overcome that fire issue.
> Lot of the GMC owners are storing combustals in the Refrigerator rear
> compartment.
> Put up an separator and keep them at least 2-3 " away from the hot spot.
>
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 2:06 PM Jon Roche via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Most fridges are not installed
>> Properly. Even at factory.
>>
>> They are massive massive numbers of propane fridges that do not catch
>> fire.
>>
>> If installed properly, maintained, and any recalls dealt with. i
>> would(and do as i have a dometic rm2652 w way fridge in my gmc) do not
>> loose any
>> sleep worrying about a fridge
>> Fire. You can always add fire supression if you want too.
>>
>>
>> Propane fridge in my opinion is the way to go for boondocking/off grid.
>> There are some newer all electric fridges that do well, but are twice
> the
>> cost of a 2 way absorption fridge.
>>
>>
>> Gmc will get you more places to camp because of it’s size and
>> maneuvering. A diesel pusher will have more room inside and also climb
>> and tow
>> thing better.
>>
>> But I dont think finacially you can beat a gmc over a diesel pusher.
>> --
>> Jon Roche
>> 75 palm beach
>> EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
>> St. Cloud, MN
>> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.gmcrvparts.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Fridge [message #362216 is a reply to message #362121] |
Fri, 05 February 2021 07:08 |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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I just store my water hose in there now. I guess I can try to store that somewhere else.
Good to hear the new 2 ways have resolved the fire issue. Is there make and model recommended as replacements?
Thanks
Tom
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
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| Re: Fridge [message #362219 is a reply to message #362123] |
Fri, 05 February 2021 09:40 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I really think you are over thinking this a little bit. First do NOT drill holes in the refrigerator cabinet floor. The refrigerator is technically outside air while underneath the floor is a cabinet and inside air. With holes, if you had a leak there would be a path to dump propane inside the coach.
I have propane a powered refrigerator and I love it. I have had both Norcold and Dometic brands and would never consider electric. If fire in the refrigerator is bothering you place an automatic fire extinguisher in the refrigerator cabinet screwed to the floor. Jim K has some that would work well.
Do not forget the other things in your coach, like the main engine, the onan, the gas stove and the furnace. They all have the potential of catching fire. I would worry about the Onan and main engine followed by the furnace, stove, and finally the refrigerator. This is from someone who has had a fire and won fighting it. In my case the main engine caught fire and caused over 10K in damage.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fridge [message #362221 is a reply to message #362219] |
Fri, 05 February 2021 10:50 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Ken B's right: You DON'T want to dump LPG into the coach. When I
mentioned my vent holes, I should have mentioned that my refrigerator
compartment is fiberglassed up about a foot, with a 1" high "dam" across
just behind the refer base. That dam prevents any water getting from the
almost-exposed outer portion of the compartment into the house side. It's
in that protected area that my ventilation PIPES (NOT merely holes) are
located, extending down into the wheel well. Those pipes have wads of
stainless steel wool in them to keep critters out.
Ken H.
On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 10:41 AM Ken Burton via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> I really think you are over thinking this a little bit. First do NOT
> drill holes in the refrigerator cabinet floor. The refrigerator is
> technically
> outside air while underneath the floor is a cabinet and inside air. With
> holes, if you had a leak there would be a path to dump propane inside the
> coach.
>
> I have propane a powered refrigerator and I love it. I have had both
> Norcold and Dometic brands and would never consider electric. If fire in
> the
> refrigerator is bothering you place an automatic fire extinguisher in the
> refrigerator cabinet screwed to the floor. Jim K has some that would work
> well.
>
> Do not forget the other things in your coach, like the main engine, the
> onan, the gas stove and the furnace. They all have the potential of
> catching
> fire. I would worry about the Onan and main engine followed by the
> furnace, stove, and finally the refrigerator. This is from someone who has
> had a
> fire and won fighting it. In my case the main engine caught fire and
> caused over 10K in damage.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fridge [message #362223 is a reply to message #362219] |
Fri, 05 February 2021 11:13 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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As to Ken Bs post, most of the GMC fires I have seen or heard about started
in the engine bay with a fuel or electrical fire.
Sully
Bellevue wa
On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 7:41 AM Ken Burton via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> I really think you are over thinking this a little bit. First do NOT
> drill holes in the refrigerator cabinet floor. The refrigerator is
> technically
> outside air while underneath the floor is a cabinet and inside air. With
> holes, if you had a leak there would be a path to dump propane inside the
> coach.
>
> I have propane a powered refrigerator and I love it. I have had both
> Norcold and Dometic brands and would never consider electric. If fire in
> the
> refrigerator is bothering you place an automatic fire extinguisher in the
> refrigerator cabinet screwed to the floor. Jim K has some that would work
> well.
>
> Do not forget the other things in your coach, like the main engine, the
> onan, the gas stove and the furnace. They all have the potential of
> catching
> fire. I would worry about the Onan and main engine followed by the
> furnace, stove, and finally the refrigerator. This is from someone who has
> had a
> fire and won fighting it. In my case the main engine caught fire and
> caused over 10K in damage.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fridge [message #362227 is a reply to message #362223] |
Fri, 05 February 2021 11:31 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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I have repaired fire damage in several GMC coaches. From what I have seen
personally, electrical fires in the 12 volt systems lead the list, next
comes flexible fuel lines combined with plastic see-through fuel filters,
and lastly comes transmission fluid leaks sprayed onto hot exhaust systems.
I haven't dealt with any propane fires, but I always check the compartments
for combustible materials.
Onboard fire suppression in the engine compartment, fridge
compartment, and Onan generator compartment are a very wise addition, as
well. Jim Bounds as well as Applied GMC both have very good systems for
sale.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Fri, Feb 5, 2021, 9:14 AM Todd Sullivan via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> As to Ken Bs post, most of the GMC fires I have seen or heard about started
> in the engine bay with a fuel or electrical fire.
>
> Sully
> Bellevue wa
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 7:41 AM Ken Burton via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> I really think you are over thinking this a little bit. First do NOT
>> drill holes in the refrigerator cabinet floor. The refrigerator is
>> technically
>> outside air while underneath the floor is a cabinet and inside air. With
>> holes, if you had a leak there would be a path to dump propane inside the
>> coach.
>>
>> I have propane a powered refrigerator and I love it. I have had both
>> Norcold and Dometic brands and would never consider electric. If fire in
>> the
>> refrigerator is bothering you place an automatic fire extinguisher in the
>> refrigerator cabinet screwed to the floor. Jim K has some that would
> work
>> well.
>>
>> Do not forget the other things in your coach, like the main engine, the
>> onan, the gas stove and the furnace. They all have the potential of
>> catching
>> fire. I would worry about the Onan and main engine followed by the
>> furnace, stove, and finally the refrigerator. This is from someone who
> has
>> had a
>> fire and won fighting it. In my case the main engine caught fire and
>> caused over 10K in damage.
>> --
>> Ken Burton - N9KB
>> 76 Palm Beach
>> Hebron, Indiana
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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