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 yikes!! [message #356838] |
Thu, 16 July 2020 09:56  |
Fipp
Messages: 26
Registered: December 2017
Location: Aledo, Illinois
Karma: -1
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Junior Member |
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Just waved goodbye to my wife and daughter on their first 4 hour camping trip with the gmc! I have a question, on my last trip I started playing with the fuel switch. I have always of course left it on "Main" but decided to switch it to auxilliary and noticed a difference in the gas guage. I realize they are connected and about as accurate as a COVID test but I am wondering which is more accurate main or auxilliary. Any answers.
Scott D. Fippinger
Aledo, Illinois
1976 Royale
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| Re: [GMCnet] yikes!! [message #356840 is a reply to message #356839] |
Thu, 16 July 2020 11:10  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Exactly what Emery says.
At 4 hours driving they should run 200 to 240 miles and that is not enough to run out of fuel if they left with full tanks. They would probably use less than 25 gallons and the tanks hold 50. I would tell them to run about 200 miles, read both gauges, fill up, and then judge which gauge is more accurate. While my gauges do work, I drive by hours (an airplane habit) and then fill up. In town driving for any extended period of time will mess up your time calculations.
Also only reading the gauges while sitting on or driving on flat land. Going up or down hill will transfer gas between tanks and mess up your readings.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] yikes!! [message #356842 is a reply to message #356840] |
Thu, 16 July 2020 11:29 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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My variation on Ken B's 200 mile rule is to run on the Main tank until WE
need to stop, or the engine misses for the first time; then switch to Aux
and stop at the next gas station (knowing that the remaining 6 gallons
should take me 30-50 miles). Of course, knowing that my EFI always returns
excess fuel to the Aux tank gives me confidence in that 6 gallon reserve.
Ken H.
On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 12:11 PM Ken Burton via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Exactly what Emery says.
>
> At 4 hours driving they should run 200 to 240 miles and that is not enough
> to run out of fuel if they left with full tanks. They would probably use
> less than 25 gallons and the tanks hold 50. I would tell them to run
> about 200 miles, read both gauges, fill up, and then judge which gauge is
> more
> accurate. While my gauges do work, I drive by hours (an airplane habit)
> and then fill up. In town driving for any extended period of time will mess
> up your time calculations.
>
> Also only reading the gauges while sitting on or driving on flat land.
> Going up or down hill will transfer gas between tanks and mess up your
> readings.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: yikes!! [message #356843 is a reply to message #356838] |
Thu, 16 July 2020 12:39 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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they can bounce around alot. Always switch tanks periodically. When I ran a carb, I always had a pusher electric pump that came on when you switched to Aux. so I always switched to Aux, let the pump "prime" the carb. Start the engine and switch back to Main a little later. you want to keep that fuel selector solenoid working once in a while. You let it sit forever, it will not work when you need it.
now that I have 2 electric pumps and the efi returns lines into the filler neck, it seems my fuel usage between the tanks is a little different. my gauges seem to be accurate to tell me I have "gas" but gas transfers between tanks alittle more, so I switch between tanks often after dropping below 1/2 on the Main.
HOWEVER - if you are sending wife and kids out in the GMC, tell them to fill that sucker up every 200 miles. or basically send them out with full tanks, and tell them to fill the tanks before they drive home!. I also experienced some fuel transfer when going up and down hills, and also when parked on inclines. so fuller tanks are peace of mind!
lastly- Make sure they understand about how to fill up the GMC. I forgot that part, and when my wife first filled up the gmc, she set the pump on full-go. and got sprayed when it burped back at her. She was not happy!
fun times. When my wife and kids took the GMC their first time without me... They all 3 had the same story of Mom passing some sunday driver in a corvette and left him in the dust. kids had to run to the back window to let mom know when she could merge back in.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: [GMCnet] yikes!! [message #356844 is a reply to message #356842] |
Thu, 16 July 2020 12:40 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Ken Henderson wrote on Thu, 16 July 2020 11:29My variation on Ken B's 200 mile rule is to run on the Main tank until WE
need to stop, or the engine misses for the first time; then switch to Aux
and stop at the next gas station (knowing that the remaining 6 gallons
should take me 30-50 miles). Of course, knowing that my EFI always returns
excess fuel to the Aux tank gives me confidence in that 6 gallon reserve.
Ken H.
Hi Ken,
I wasn't trying to give him a 200 mile rule. I was trying to tell him that driving for 4 hours was not going to put them anywhere near empty and not to worry about it.
My procedure in the GMC is similar to yours. My gauges work and so does the low fuel light. I have never run a tank dry but I have run down to the low fuel light. Again since I run every thing on time, the gauges are just a back up to my mental calculations.
I ran out of gas once on final but still made it OK. We aren't playing that game again in the air or in my GMC.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: yikes!! [message #356855 is a reply to message #356838] |
Thu, 16 July 2020 18:17 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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They are the same when tanks are full and track together until fuel level gets below connecting fill tube. Then they become independent so they SHOULD Read differently depending on how much you have used out of each independent tank. However, even if level is below the connecting tube, this can change if coach encounters a steep nose up or nose down situation.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] yikes!! [message #356859 is a reply to message #356844] |
Thu, 16 July 2020 19:41 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Out of gas on final!?! Never had that happen! Maybe having 9300 gallons
of JP-4 aboard, and a guy sitting behind me just to keep track of it had
something to do with that! :-))
Ken H.
On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 1:41 PM Ken Burton via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Ken Henderson wrote on Thu, 16 July 2020 11:29
>> My variation on Ken B's 200 mile rule is to run on the Main tank until WE
>> need to stop, or the engine misses for the first time; then switch to Aux
>> and stop at the next gas station (knowing that the remaining 6 gallons
>> should take me 30-50 miles). Of course, knowing that my EFI always
> returns
>> excess fuel to the Aux tank gives me confidence in that 6 gallon reserve.
>>
>> Ken H.
>
> Hi Ken,
>
> I wasn't trying to give him a 200 mile rule. I was trying to tell him
> that driving for 4 hours was not going to put them anywhere near empty and
> not
> to worry about it.
>
> My procedure in the GMC is similar to yours. My gauges work and so does
> the low fuel light. I have never run a tank dry but I have run down to the
> low fuel light. Again since I run every thing on time, the gauges are
> just a back up to my mental calculations.
>
> I ran out of gas once on final but still made it OK. We aren't playing
> that game again in the air or in my GMC.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] yikes!! [message #356860 is a reply to message #356839] |
Thu, 16 July 2020 20:00 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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No fuel in a heavier than air craft has all the makings of a pucker
producing situation. Light planes at least have a pretty fair dead stick
glide ratio. Big, heavily laden military aircraft, not so much. Somebody's
gonna have to answer some pretty hard questions if they survive it. We are
lucky, we can just pull over.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 5:43 PM Ken Henderson via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Out of gas on final!?! Never had that happen! Maybe having 9300 gallons
> of JP-4 aboard, and a guy sitting behind me just to keep track of it had
> something to do with that! :-))
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 1:41 PM Ken Burton via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Ken Henderson wrote on Thu, 16 July 2020 11:29
>>> My variation on Ken B's 200 mile rule is to run on the Main tank until
> WE
>>> need to stop, or the engine misses for the first time; then switch to
> Aux
>>> and stop at the next gas station (knowing that the remaining 6 gallons
>>> should take me 30-50 miles). Of course, knowing that my EFI always
>> returns
>>> excess fuel to the Aux tank gives me confidence in that 6 gallon
> reserve.
>>>
>>> Ken H.
>>
>> Hi Ken,
>>
>> I wasn't trying to give him a 200 mile rule. I was trying to tell him
>> that driving for 4 hours was not going to put them anywhere near empty
> and
>> not
>> to worry about it.
>>
>> My procedure in the GMC is similar to yours. My gauges work and so does
>> the low fuel light. I have never run a tank dry but I have run down to
> the
>> low fuel light. Again since I run every thing on time, the gauges are
>> just a back up to my mental calculations.
>>
>> I ran out of gas once on final but still made it OK. We aren't playing
>> that game again in the air or in my GMC.
>> --
>> Ken Burton - N9KB
>> 76 Palm Beach
>> Hebron, Indiana
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] yikes!! [message #356862 is a reply to message #356838] |
Thu, 16 July 2020 20:17 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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On ours, the main tank gage is more accurate. The aux gage reads high.Sent from my U.S.Cellular© Smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Fipp via Gmclist Date: 7/16/20 9:56 AM (GMT-06:00) To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org Cc: Fipp Subject: [GMCnet] yikes!! Just waved goodbye to my wife and daughter on their first 4 hour camping trip with the gmc! I have a question, on my last trip I started playing withthe fuel switch. I have always of course left it on "Main" but decided to switch it to auxilliary and noticed a difference in the gas guage. Irealize they are connected and about as accurate as a COVID test but I am wondering which is more accurate main or auxilliary. Any answers.-- Scott D. FippingerAledo, Illinois1976 Royale_______________________________________________GMCnet mailing listUnsubscribe or Change List Options:http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] yikes!! [message #356871 is a reply to message #356859] |
Fri, 17 July 2020 01:31 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Ken Henderson wrote on Thu, 16 July 2020 19:41Out of gas on final!?! Never had that happen! Maybe having 9300 gallons
of JP-4 aboard, and a guy sitting behind me just to keep track of it had something to do with that!  )
Ken H.
It was a dumb move on my part. A lot of things let up to it including a dead battery and having to prop the plane at the start of the trip. Then after about 3 hours of flying I landed at Centralia, Ill assuming that the battery had charged up during the fight. The FBO was closed so no fuel and the battery was still dead. The other 2 planes I was with had already gone on to our camping destination. I tried to start the plane which engaged the bendix gear into the flywheel and it by design would not retract. That left the starter engaged. (On a Prestolite aircraft starter the bendix disengages when the engine starts with the flywheel spinning the bendix goes back to retract position.)
It took us about 2 hours of pulling the prop to start it. By that time it was getting dark and I had to make it to an unlighted grass strip. I buzzed the runway once when I got there and one of the other airplanes already down 2 hours earlier pulled on to the far end of the strip with lights on so I could see the far end. Anyway, after all of that I did not check the fuel and ran out on a close pattern short final. I just made it, with the stall warning going off at the threshold using while using no flaps. I touched down within 50 feet of the end of the runway which was surrounded by trees. The prop was still wind milling so I still had a mediocre landing light. The next morning one of the other planes flew out and brought me back 10 gallons of fuel and some jumper cables. This was at Stephen A Forbes State Park in Illinois about 50 years ago.
It was a very dumb move. I have never come close to running out of fuel in anything since then except Laurie's Zero Turn lawnmower.
Oh yes, the reason the battery would not charge is the master switch relay coil gets its power from the battery side and not the alternator side, so it never got energized to put the battery on line. The next morning after starting it with jumpers I briefly shorted the relay coil to the alternator side and never had another problem.
Aren't you glad you asked. I will never forget it.
Ken B.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: yikes!! [message #356878 is a reply to message #356838] |
Fri, 17 July 2020 08:04 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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The last engine got lousy mileage, sputter at about 180 - 190 miles, so I set 150 as maximum ride before pisscall and gas. Haven't run the new one far enough yet to tell but given the way it runs, I suspect much better mileage.
I learned the hard way to never trust someone else to preflight the airplane. Hey after all, he was a license examiner designee for commercial and instrument, corporate pilot and decades of experience. And looked for bubbles when he drained the gascolators on the hot ramp. No bubbles from either tank. One of which was full of fresh gas, the other of which we drained about five gallons of water from the next day. He never noticed one tank's drain evaporated way faster than the other on the hot ramp. Swapped tanks an hour into the flight, it quit like the switch was off, and I nearly busted the valve handle swapping back. I was all lined up on the then unopened I 65 about a thousand feet up when it decided to run. I went home on the good tank and landed a little wiong heavy, changed underwear and pondered.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: yikes!! [message #356886 is a reply to message #356838] |
Fri, 17 July 2020 10:48 |
kingd
Messages: 592
Registered: June 2004
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Especially for Ken Burton, a friend of mine who is a Canadian but was a pilot for United Airlines actually
knows the person who was the Captain on the "gimli" glider. He told me lots of stuff about that flight that
never made it to the media. So to get it straight. kilograms, pounds and inches on a dip stick. Want to bet that
something would go wrong sooner or later? The "nasty" part about the Air Transat thing was that the guys that did it weren't on the plane
so they didn't get to go on the the "no fuel ordeal".
I ran out of fuel on ! 75 just into Georgia in the MH coming home from Disney World. Unbeknown to me I had a defect in the tank to fuel gauge
system, Drove by time/miles after that. SHE was NOT happy.
DAVE KING
lurker, wannabe
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Re: yikes!! [message #356894 is a reply to message #356838] |
Fri, 17 July 2020 12:55 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Matt. Right. I oversimplified my explanation due to typing fatigue. The reason is because of where the fill pipes are located in the fore aft plain
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] yikes!! [message #356916 is a reply to message #356881] |
Sat, 18 July 2020 02:57 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I remember reading about Transat in the Azores. That one had a fuel leak on one side and the pilots exacerbated the problem by transferring fuel from the good side to the bad side. That transferred fuel went over board also.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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