| No crank [message #356143] |
Fri, 26 June 2020 16:41  |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
Karma: -1
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Ok, in true form my GMC has a no crank at the camp ground dump station. No head lights, no turning over. This is after it started many times and ran fine after I put the new starter in. I did discover the starter wire had laid up against the header and burnt the jacket. I’ve spliced in a new wire and checked all connections. I was told that the battery was registering fully charged by someone trying to give me a jump. It acts like it has no juice. Any ideas. Just was told the radio works.
Waiting for a tow truck unless there is a burnt fuse involved?
Thanks
Tom
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
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| Re: No crank [message #356145 is a reply to message #356143] |
Fri, 26 June 2020 17:09  |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
Karma: -1
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Update, on the negative ground from battery, I’ve got the connection tighten and I have the ignition on and the blower fan comes on but when I try to start it the fan goes off and additional tries on starting it is dead.
TG
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
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| Re: No crank [message #356149 is a reply to message #356143] |
Fri, 26 June 2020 17:45 |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
Karma: -1
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I do not have a black list. I’m up in a small state park near Weston Mo, Weston State Park.
Matt, I’m not sure on the horn relay, do see the power junction but no fusible link that I can tell. The other inline fuses are looking to be fine.
The strange thing is the blower fan comes on for a brief moment but then stops when I try to start. I’ve checked all grounds and they’re tight.
Not far from home. Kinda giving up on it and having it towed back to storage, that is if I can get anything out of my roadside service, its been 3 hours now and still have not got anyone coming.
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
[Updated on: Fri, 26 June 2020 18:05] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: No crank [message #356152 is a reply to message #356143] |
Fri, 26 June 2020 18:18 |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
Karma: -1
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Is there anyway to jump start this without the solenoid up top at the battery area?
Thanks
TG
Just have to get it to start and back home it goes.
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
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| Re: [GMCnet] No crank [message #356154 is a reply to message #356143] |
Fri, 26 June 2020 18:26 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Tom,
To narrow the search, jump between the battery terminal on the starter and
the adjacent "S"tarter terminal. If the engine turns over, try turning the
ignition ON. It may start and allow you to get to a better work location.
Ken H.
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 5:42 PM tom geiger via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Ok, in true form my GMC has a no crank at the camp ground dump station.
> No head lights, no turning over. This is after it started many times and ran
> fine after I put the new starter in. I did discover the starter wire had
> laid up against the header and burnt the jacket. I’ve spliced in a new
> wire and checked all connections. I was told that the battery was
> registering fully charged by someone trying to give me a jump. It acts
> like it has
> no juice. Any ideas. Just was told the radio works.
>
> Waiting for a tow truck unless there is a burnt fuse involved?
> Thanks
> Tom
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] No crank [message #356157 is a reply to message #356152] |
Fri, 26 June 2020 18:29 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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I'm not sure I understand your question -- are you referring to the boost
relay above the forward batteries? That connects on one side to the engine
battery and on the other side to the house battery. Depressing the Boost
switch on the dash should close that relay, connecting the batteries in
parallel. That's the first thing I'd try in a no-start situation.
Ken H.
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 7:24 PM tom geiger via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Is there anyway to jump start this without the solenoid up top at the
> battery area?
>
> Thanks
> TG
>
> Just have to get it to start and back home it goes.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: No crank [message #356158 is a reply to message #356143] |
Fri, 26 June 2020 20:15 |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Ok update, the GMC is getting towed back to storage and I’ll get back to looking at this and let you guys know.
PS; I tried to jump the solenoid and the starter tried to turn for a brief second amd when I hit the hot feed again it acted like is had no juice to it. So its like a ground or something is overloading something and it cuts off power to the starter. Kinda strange. I check and retighten all the wire connection but nothing changed.
Heading to storage now,
Thanks all, will get back to this
TG
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
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| Re: No crank [message #356159 is a reply to message #356149] |
Fri, 26 June 2020 20:18 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Sir, your symptoms are indicating a bad connection from battery to starter or battery to ground.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p64954-bad-cable.html
Have you tried Holding the battery boost switch on the dash down while starting?
tgeiger wrote on Fri, 26 June 2020 18:45I do not have a black list. I’m up in a small state park near Weston Mo, Weston State Park.
Matt, I’m not sure on the horn relay, do see the power junction but no fusible link that I can tell. The other inline fuses are looking to be fine.
The strange thing is the blower fan comes on for a brief moment but then stops when I try to start. I’ve checked all grounds and they’re tight.
Not far from home. Kinda giving up on it and having it towed back to storage, that is if I can get anything out of my roadside service, its been 3 hours now and still have not got anyone coming.
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] No crank [message #356161 is a reply to message #356159] |
Fri, 26 June 2020 20:52 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Tom,
The fusible link looks like an ordinary wire nothing out of the ordinary.
In this picture look on the left side and middle of photo. You will see a
large diameter red wire that connects to a post with other wires. There is
a small black diameter wire (16ga) that gets lost under the group of wires
to the right. This is your fusible link. It connects to a separate stud
that is part of the horn relay.
Fusible link
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BEL784695?partTypeName=Fusible+Link&keywordInput=gm+fusible+link
Horn relay
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ECHHR133?partTypeName=Horn+Relay&keywordInput=horn+relay
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 7:19 PM Charles Boyd via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Sir, your symptoms are indicating a bad connection from battery to starter
> or battery to ground.
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p64954-bad-cable.html
> Have you tried Holding the battery boost switch on the dash down while
> starting?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> tgeiger wrote on Fri, 26 June 2020 18:45
>> I do not have a black list. I’m up in a small state park near Weston
> Mo, Weston State Park.
>>
>> Matt, I’m not sure on the horn relay, do see the power junction but no
> fusible link that I can tell. The other inline fuses are looking to be
>> fine.
>>
>> The strange thing is the blower fan comes on for a brief moment but then
> stops when I try to start. I’ve checked all grounds and they’re
>> tight.
>>
>> Not far from home. Kinda giving up on it and having it towed back to
> storage, that is if I can get anything out of my roadside service, its been
>> 3 hours now and still have not got anyone coming.
>
> --
> C. Boyd
> 76 Crestmont
> East Tennessee
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: [GMCnet] No crank [message #356162 is a reply to message #356154] |
Fri, 26 June 2020 20:54 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Tom,
Forgot the photo of the fusible link in place
www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/combiner-to-diode-isolator/p24994-adding-a-combiner-to-a-stock-diode-isolator.html
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 7:52 PM Bruce Hart wrote:
> Tom,
> The fusible link looks like an ordinary wire nothing out of the ordinary.
> In this picture look on the left side and middle of photo. You will see a
> large diameter red wire that connects to a post with other wires. There is
> a small black diameter wire (16ga) that gets lost under the group of wires
> to the right. This is your fusible link. It connects to a separate stud
> that is part of the horn relay.
>
>
> Fusible link
>
> https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BEL784695?partTypeName=Fusible+Link&keywordInput=gm+fusible+link
>
> Horn relay
>
> https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ECHHR133?partTypeName=Horn+Relay&keywordInput=horn+relay
>
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 7:19 PM Charles Boyd via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Sir, your symptoms are indicating a bad connection from battery to
>> starter or battery to ground.
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p64954-bad-cable.html
>> Have you tried Holding the battery boost switch on the dash down while
>> starting?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> tgeiger wrote on Fri, 26 June 2020 18:45
>>> I do not have a black list. I’m up in a small state park near Weston
>> Mo, Weston State Park.
>>>
>>> Matt, I’m not sure on the horn relay, do see the power junction but no
>> fusible link that I can tell. The other inline fuses are looking to be
>>> fine.
>>>
>>> The strange thing is the blower fan comes on for a brief moment but
>> then stops when I try to start. I’ve checked all grounds and they’re
>>> tight.
>>>
>>> Not far from home. Kinda giving up on it and having it towed back to
>> storage, that is if I can get anything out of my roadside service, its been
>>> 3 hours now and still have not got anyone coming.
>>
>> --
>> C. Boyd
>> 76 Crestmont
>> East Tennessee
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
> --
> Bruce Hart
> 1976 Palm Beach
> Milliken, Co
> GMC=Got More Class
>
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: No crank [message #356166 is a reply to message #356144] |
Sat, 27 June 2020 00:33 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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This sounds like the common poor connection of a battery cable or a fusible link.
Find the fusible line and add a second wire (12 or 14 gauge) across it. It can even be a heavy wire with alligator clips. You do not have to remove the original wire to do this. If that does not work move on the the battery cables.
I just shot this problem on a garden tractor tonight and I have seen it several times on GMCs. If the battery cables are clean, as in wire brush clean and shiny, it still does not mean they are making a good enough electrical connection to carry a couple of hundred amps needed while starting. They will some times carry a lighter loads like lights or instrumentation.
First remove both battery cables and shine them clean on both ends with a battery or wire brush. Clean the battery posts the same way. Then take a flat and rat tail file and remove a little but of metal on all of the cleaned shiny surfaces. Reinstall and tighten the cables with their freshly exposed metal surface of these cables.
On the one tonight it was failing on the positive cable. I also saw this on my coach on the negative cable. It can happen either polarity and either cable end. I had one coach that I worked on that was so intermittent that I removed every cable and sanded all of them with coarse sand paper. The owner never had that problem again.
Those are my thoughts.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: No crank [message #356169 is a reply to message #356143] |
Sat, 27 June 2020 06:57 |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Well, got the motorhome back to storage, that was a nice amount of money on a tow bill. I have roadside insurance with the American Family Insurance that I have all my insurance with but that will not be the case anymore. Pretty inept operation at least on the dispatch part of the process. Was not impressed at all. They never found anyone in the area to tow. We had to find a tow service ourselves and submit the bill. Platte City a small town near by is right next to I-29 and has plenty of tow and mechanic services for 18 wheeler trucks so I don’t what the heck that dispatcher was doing. Anyhow will be looking at Good Sam’s or something of the like. It took 5 hours to get a tow truck out there. I can see this if I was stranded out in the middle of nowhere but we were 10 mins from Platte. So that added to the frustration.
So back to the wiring. I think I follow what you guys are saying and I will go thru all the connection and clean. The negative ground is going to a spot on the underside of the engine block. Is there another better place to ground. That spot seemed to be a little oily. I tried to clean that connection as best I could but was not confident in the connection. In fact I saw old wiring and old relays all in the area of the isolator. What do you guys do for getting that in better condition? Is there wiring harnesses for all this stuff? I’ve always felt the scariest gremlins on this coach has been the electrical. And that coupled with my history of not doing electrical very well does not results in good outcomes. But if I dig into this was wondering about getting it all cleaned up. Like some of the connections were looking pretty crusty.
Thank you all for the immediate help when I was in the situation. We’ve always joked about “Sugar Pie” over the years. We imagine her as a Janis Joplin type that had some pretty rough partying times back in the 70’s and that when I got her is when she went into rehab. So I think she even the score a bit with our jokes leaving us stranded at the dump station. On the bright side of it, everyone pulling into the little park were very understanding and thank God there was another water filling location further down the park. So no dumping needed. If she did this on Sunday when we were leaving, total different story.
Anyhow, I’ll get back to this when things cool off. Right now pretty hot to work on her.
Thanks all,
TG
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
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| Re: No crank [message #356172 is a reply to message #356169] |
Sat, 27 June 2020 09:36 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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When you jumped the connection at the starter, you narrowed the tested items down to the bare minimum. Rest of the coach wiring is not involved. Just the starter, the cable feeding it (which should be directly from the battery terminal),the ground cable and connection to engine block, the battery connections themselves, and 1 more thing that is rare but has been the problem for me once: THE BUSS BAR INSIDE THE BATTERY. Happened to a few customers and relatives too. It will pass an electronic type of load test but not a real loaded starter motor. It kinda reheals itself with the acid and makes a full voltage connection again but breaks down under high current. Intermittancy of your breakdown and lots of mechanical action at the battery terminals (wrenching)are the exact symptoms and causes, along with cheaply made batteries.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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| Re: No crank [message #356173 is a reply to message #356143] |
Sat, 27 June 2020 10:40 |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Well, the weird thing was on that solenoid jump I did is that it briefly activated the starter but then subsequent attempts to jump the started resulted in no spark or current, completely dead. But it seemed to come back after a minute or so. It seemed like a heavy load happened which initiated some kind of surge protector to shut down all power. Same happened when I heard the defrost blower fan going when I would turn the ignition key to run position, but as soon as I turned it to the start position everything would shut down.
TG
76 Eleganza 2
Kansas City, Mo
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
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| Re: No crank [message #356174 is a reply to message #356173] |
Sat, 27 June 2020 10:45 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Yep...BTDT. Swap out your crank battery for known good from another car to continue testing/diagnosing/solving. Counter-wrench on terminals to avoid stressing the buss bars inside batteries.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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