Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Batteries (House or car)
| Batteries [message #356036] |
Wed, 24 June 2020 00:54  |
thigh19
Messages: 92
Registered: July 2019
Location: Vancouver Wa
Karma: 1
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Okay, probably been covered, but pretty sure my batteries are ready for replacement. Question first, i have 2 6 volt golf cart batteries back by the generator, assuming house batteries.
Under the hood i have 2 large 12 volt batteries. Are these both engine batteries? Or is one a house battery?
I plan on a battery disconnect switch, or maybe a barrel switch cause something is drawing the batteries down that i cant find.
What is the recommendation for batteries?
We’re pulling out of town middle of next week, if that matters.
Thanx
Thom High
73 GMC Sequoia
Vancouver Washington 98682
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| Re: [GMCnet] Batteries [message #356037 is a reply to message #356036] |
Wed, 24 June 2020 01:20  |
johnd01
Messages: 354
Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
Karma: -1
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The 2 in the back are house batteries, and one of the batteries in the
front is a general-purpose battery that is in the house circuit. The
battery closes to the engine is probably the chassis battery. Google the
battery model numbers to make sure which one is which. The big lead
positive from the chassis battery should go to the starter.
Last time I changed batteries I got the 12 volts batteries from Wallmart
and the golf cart batteries from Costco. I hear sams club is another place
to get batteries. I put knife switches in my battery circuits to prevent
discharge or I plug the coach in an let the charging system keep them hot.
On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 10:55 PM Thom High via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Okay, probably been covered, but pretty sure my batteries are ready for
> replacement. Question first, i have 2 6 volt golf cart batteries back by the
> generator, assuming house batteries.
> Under the hood i have 2 large 12 volt batteries. Are these both engine
> batteries? Or is one a house battery?
> I plan on a battery disconnect switch, or maybe a barrel switch cause
> something is drawing the batteries down that i cant find.
> What is the recommendation for batteries?
> We’re pulling out of town middle of next week, if that matters.
> Thanx
> Thom High
> 73 GMC Sequoia
> Vancouver Washington 98682
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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--
*John Phillips*
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Johnd01
John Phillips
Avion A2600 TZE064V101164
Rancho Cordova, CA (Sacramento)
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| Re: Batteries [message #356040 is a reply to message #356036] |
Wed, 24 June 2020 08:14 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Keep the 2 6V house batteries in back series wired as one 12V battery. Up front run just one Group 78 battery. (If the GM side terminals have been removed by PO you will need a dual or top post engine battery). Available with 850CCA and over 1000CA there is no reason to parallel 2 engine batteries. Paralleling creates a hazard, shortens battery life, and presents an unnecessary constant load to alternator, even when they are fully charged.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Batteries [message #356043 is a reply to message #356042] |
Wed, 24 June 2020 11:56 |
Silvernort
Messages: 95
Registered: June 2019
Location: Rock Springs, WI
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On the subject of batteries: Why would I want to have the house batteries charged by the alternator? Every place this thing gets parked has shore power plus I have a very nice working generator (usually used for house AC when driving). From what I get from previous threads charging the house batteries with the alternator puts a lot of strain on the alternator so why do it if you don't have to? Anybody here delete that option?
Cheers
Shane Harvey
1973 26' "Packer Backer", 1976 Palm Beach, 1965 Dart
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| Re: Batteries [message #356044 is a reply to message #356043] |
Wed, 24 June 2020 12:08 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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On batteries, I tend to favor Wal-Mart. With 4400 stores in the US, you are almost near one, no matter how remote you travel. I have had one fail, no questions asked, here's your replacement. Most Lead-Acid and Sealed Lead-Acid are made by Johnson Controls. labels are changed to suit the final vendor.
If you decide to change to one of the various LI battery families, your current charger and alternator will not properly charge these batteries. Entirely different charging voltages and cycles.
Tom, with SLA's from Sam's
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: Batteries [message #356046 is a reply to message #356044] |
Wed, 24 June 2020 12:17 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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The second battery up front could be paralleled to either your house batteries, or your chassis battery, depending on how it is hooked up. Unless you do a lot of dry camping or you have a large solar charging system, I would do as John L suggests and just run the two GC-2s in the back for your house and one 12v up front for your chassis.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: Batteries [message #356050 is a reply to message #356036] |
Wed, 24 June 2020 13:03 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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It’s a bonus to have house charged and ready while you drive. That way gen can easily be started and you have a backup plan. Really isn’t that hard on alternator unless all batteries are depleated. Then the rate tapers anyway it’s a no brainer. The real improvements are smart converter and adding a combiner to isolator. Everything is then automatic
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Batteries [message #356051 is a reply to message #356046] |
Wed, 24 June 2020 13:08 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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More than likely, the second battery up front is set up to be a "Boost"
battery, and is totally independent from either the other engine battery,
or the 2ea 6 volt batteries in the generator compartment. It's only
function is to start the coach when all the other batteries are discharged.
You can determine that to be the case, by checking where the cables go. If
the + cable goes to the boost switch, that is what it is used for.
If, indeed it is in parallel with the engine battery, your best bet
would be to discontinue that practice. In certain cases parallel batteries
are not safe. Not to say that is your case, but it pays to check it out.
If you have a 12 volt D.C. to 120 Volt A.C. converter connected to your
house batteries, that is a likely cause of your battery drain, as is the 12
volt circuit for your refrigerator. That is enough to keep you busy hunting
drains for a while.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Wed, Jun 24, 2020, 10:18 AM Carl Stouffer via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> The second battery up front could be paralleled to either your house
> batteries, or your chassis battery, depending on how it is hooked up.
> Unless you
> do a lot of dry camping or you have a large solar charging system, I would
> do as John L suggests and just run the two GC-2s in the back for your house
> and one 12v up front for your chassis.
> --
> Carl Stouffer
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive,
> Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
> Eagles,
> Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
>
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Batteries [message #356052 is a reply to message #356042] |
Wed, 24 June 2020 13:19 |
johnd01
Messages: 354
Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
Karma: -1
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You need the house battery upfront if you are going to use the house
battery to start the engine if the chassis battery fails. My coach has
about # 10 wire between the house banks and that is not enough to start an
engine from the rear house battery.
On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 9:50 AM Thom High via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> JohnL455 wrote on Wed, 24 June 2020 06:14
>> Keep the 2 6V house batteries in back series wired as one 12V battery.
> Up front run just one Group 78 battery. (If the GM side terminals have
>> been removed by PO you will need a dual or top post engine battery).
> Available with 850CCA and over 1000CA there is no reason to parallel 2
> engine
>> batteries. Paralleling creates a hazard, shortens battery life, and
> presents an unnecessary constant load to alternator, even when they are
> fully
>> charged.
>
> So do i only need one battery up front?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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*John Phillips*
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Johnd01
John Phillips
Avion A2600 TZE064V101164
Rancho Cordova, CA (Sacramento)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Batteries [message #356054 is a reply to message #356052] |
Wed, 24 June 2020 14:24 |
stu@97381.com, Emery
Messages: 232
Registered: June 2020
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John
That is not necessarily true. My 1977 GMC has a much larger cable to the up front boost solenoid and is more than adequate to start my engine.
What year do you have? Perhaps a prior owner modified yours.
In addition to the large factory installed wire from the rear boost solenoid to the front solenoid, I added a #10 gauge wire to the front from the smart charger that I had installed a long time ago. That wire will charge the front battery from my Statpower charger but is not used for a boost. Are you sure that you don’t have a larger wire from the rear bank to the front bank?
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
> On Jun 24, 2020, at 12:19 PM, John Phillips via Gmclist wrote:
>
> You need the house battery upfront if you are going to use the house
> battery to start the engine if the chassis battery fails. My coach has
> about # 10 wire between the house banks and that is not enough to start an
> engine from the rear house battery.
>
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 9:50 AM Thom High via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> JohnL455 wrote on Wed, 24 June 2020 06:14
>>> Keep the 2 6V house batteries in back series wired as one 12V battery.
>> Up front run just one Group 78 battery. (If the GM side terminals have
>>> been removed by PO you will need a dual or top post engine battery).
>> Available with 850CCA and over 1000CA there is no reason to parallel 2
>> engine
>>> batteries. Paralleling creates a hazard, shortens battery life, and
>> presents an unnecessary constant load to alternator, even when they are
>> fully
>>> charged.
>>
>> So do i only need one battery up front?
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
> --
>
> *John Phillips*
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Batteries [message #356056 is a reply to message #356054] |
Wed, 24 June 2020 15:10 |
johnd01
Messages: 354
Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
Karma: -1
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I have a 1975 Avion VIN A26000 built on a 1974 chassis. The leads to the
rear house batteries are #10 which are about 30 feet long. I do not think
the rear house batteries could start the engine without the front house
12-volt battery. The front house battery is a dual purpose battery, high
cranking amps that can start an engine and still do deep cycle.
On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 12:24 PM Emery Stora via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> John
> That is not necessarily true. My 1977 GMC has a much larger cable to the
> up front boost solenoid and is more than adequate to start my engine.
> What year do you have? Perhaps a prior owner modified yours.
> In addition to the large factory installed wire from the rear boost
> solenoid to the front solenoid, I added a #10 gauge wire to the front from
> the smart charger that I had installed a long time ago. That wire will
> charge the front battery from my Statpower charger but is not used for a
> boost. Are you sure that you don’t have a larger wire from the rear bank
> to the front bank?
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Frederick, CO
>
>> On Jun 24, 2020, at 12:19 PM, John Phillips via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> You need the house battery upfront if you are going to use the house
>> battery to start the engine if the chassis battery fails. My coach has
>> about # 10 wire between the house banks and that is not enough to start
> an
>> engine from the rear house battery.
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 9:50 AM Thom High via Gmclist > gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> JohnL455 wrote on Wed, 24 June 2020 06:14
>>>> Keep the 2 6V house batteries in back series wired as one 12V battery.
>>> Up front run just one Group 78 battery. (If the GM side terminals have
>>>> been removed by PO you will need a dual or top post engine battery).
>>> Available with 850CCA and over 1000CA there is no reason to parallel 2
>>> engine
>>>> batteries. Paralleling creates a hazard, shortens battery life, and
>>> presents an unnecessary constant load to alternator, even when they are
>>> fully
>>>> charged.
>>>
>>> So do i only need one battery up front?
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *John Phillips*
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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*John Phillips*
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Johnd01
John Phillips
Avion A2600 TZE064V101164
Rancho Cordova, CA (Sacramento)
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| Re: Batteries [message #356057 is a reply to message #356049] |
Wed, 24 June 2020 15:57 |
Silvernort
Messages: 95
Registered: June 2019
Location: Rock Springs, WI
Karma: 0
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>>Shane,
I believe you will find that no owner that has traveled much would ever think disabling that part of the original system.
Ego, that is a completely rash and invalid assumption. If that were the case, why have a house bank at all? My house battery does not start the APU.
Many of us dry camp or even boondock places that there is no shore power available. If the system is properly maintained, the main engine alternator can accommodate that extra load with little difficulty.
Matt <<
Not making any assumptions, asking a question.
With that, from this thread (and others) it sounds like there are a lot of different battery setups we all have. I kinda like ones such as Thom's, what with 2 6v in back, Still following what people are saying vis the best location (front or back). As to the cables, it would seem one is going to be running a long big one no matter what cuz if you have them in back and the alternator has to be in on the charge biz, you'd need one from front to back. Or if the batteries are up front then you still need one back to the panel etc.
I do know my 73 is totally jazzed up, however. As I got it last year, the rear 12v on;y starts the generator. In the front are 2 12v, one of which is a deep cycle the other is dead. And the deep cycle is wired to the starting system. Not exactly factree...
Shane Harvey
1973 26' "Packer Backer", 1976 Palm Beach, 1965 Dart
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| Re: [GMCnet] Batteries [message #356058 is a reply to message #356056] |
Wed, 24 June 2020 17:43 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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I have this to say about lead acid batteries. Many, many, are very similar.
A wal-mart battery is likely made by Gould National or a similar
manufacturer. As are Auto Zone, Napa, etc.
When I went to General Motors Training, GM Delco Division still made
their batteries. Our instructor told us that the heavier the battery was,
the better it was. GM built their batteries with a higher fluid reserve
than many others. Also, their plates were attached by the shortest path
possible between cells, and they were suspended quite a ways from the
bottom of the battery case. Also as shock resistant to jarring, and
vibration as they could engineer them. They also were more expensive than
many others, which they attributed to using all virgin materials, not
recycled lead. I always thought they made a superior product. Don't know
about how they do it today.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Wed, Jun 24, 2020, 1:11 PM John Phillips via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> I have a 1975 Avion VIN A26000 built on a 1974 chassis. The leads to the
> rear house batteries are #10 which are about 30 feet long. I do not think
> the rear house batteries could start the engine without the front house
> 12-volt battery. The front house battery is a dual purpose battery, high
> cranking amps that can start an engine and still do deep cycle.
>
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 12:24 PM Emery Stora via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> John
>> That is not necessarily true. My 1977 GMC has a much larger cable to the
>> up front boost solenoid and is more than adequate to start my engine.
>> What year do you have? Perhaps a prior owner modified yours.
>> In addition to the large factory installed wire from the rear boost
>> solenoid to the front solenoid, I added a #10 gauge wire to the front
> from
>> the smart charger that I had installed a long time ago. That wire will
>> charge the front battery from my Statpower charger but is not used for a
>> boost. Are you sure that you don’t have a larger wire from the rear bank
>> to the front bank?
>>
>> Emery Stora
>> 77 Kingsley
>> Frederick, CO
>>
>>> On Jun 24, 2020, at 12:19 PM, John Phillips via Gmclist > gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> You need the house battery upfront if you are going to use the house
>>> battery to start the engine if the chassis battery fails. My coach has
>>> about # 10 wire between the house banks and that is not enough to start
>> an
>>> engine from the rear house battery.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 9:50 AM Thom High via Gmclist >> gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> JohnL455 wrote on Wed, 24 June 2020 06:14
>>>> > Keep the 2 6V house batteries in back series wired as one 12V
> battery.
>>>> Up front run just one Group 78 battery. (If the GM side terminals
> have
>>>> > been removed by PO you will need a dual or top post engine battery).
>>>> Available with 850CCA and over 1000CA there is no reason to parallel 2
>>>> engine
>>>> > batteries. Paralleling creates a hazard, shortens battery life, and
>>>> presents an unnecessary constant load to alternator, even when they
> are
>>>> fully
>>>> > charged.
>>>>
>>>> So do i only need one battery up front?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *John Phillips*
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
> --
>
> *John Phillips*
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] Batteries [message #356060 is a reply to message #356056] |
Wed, 24 June 2020 18:19 |
richshoop
Messages: 190
Registered: April 2017
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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That wire is capable of handling coach battery charging only.
> On 06/24/2020 1:10 PM John Phillips via Gmclist wrote:
>
>
> I have a 1975 Avion VIN A26000 built on a 1974 chassis. The leads to the
> rear house batteries are #10 which are about 30 feet long. I do not think
> the rear house batteries could start the engine without the front house
> 12-volt battery. The front house battery is a dual purpose battery, high
> cranking amps that can start an engine and still do deep cycle.
>
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 12:24 PM Emery Stora via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> John
>> That is not necessarily true. My 1977 GMC has a much larger cable to the
>> up front boost solenoid and is more than adequate to start my engine.
>> What year do you have? Perhaps a prior owner modified yours.
>> In addition to the large factory installed wire from the rear boost
>> solenoid to the front solenoid, I added a #10 gauge wire to the front from
>> the smart charger that I had installed a long time ago. That wire will
>> charge the front battery from my Statpower charger but is not used for a
>> boost. Are you sure that you don’t have a larger wire from the rear bank
>> to the front bank?
>>
>> Emery Stora
>> 77 Kingsley
>> Frederick, CO
>>
>>> On Jun 24, 2020, at 12:19 PM, John Phillips via Gmclist > gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> You need the house battery upfront if you are going to use the house
>>> battery to start the engine if the chassis battery fails. My coach has
>>> about # 10 wire between the house banks and that is not enough to start
>> an
>>> engine from the rear house battery.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 9:50 AM Thom High via Gmclist >> gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> JohnL455 wrote on Wed, 24 June 2020 06:14
>>>> > Keep the 2 6V house batteries in back series wired as one 12V battery.
>>>> Up front run just one Group 78 battery. (If the GM side terminals have
>>>> > been removed by PO you will need a dual or top post engine battery).
>>>> Available with 850CCA and over 1000CA there is no reason to parallel 2
>>>> engine
>>>> > batteries. Paralleling creates a hazard, shortens battery life, and
>>>> presents an unnecessary constant load to alternator, even when they are
>>>> fully
>>>> > charged.
>>>>
>>>> So do i only need one battery up front?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *John Phillips*
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
> --
>
> *John Phillips*
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: Batteries [message #356063 is a reply to message #356036] |
Wed, 24 June 2020 20:17 |
kingd
Messages: 592
Registered: June 2004
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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On the TV show How Its Made and from other sources, here's what I think I
Know about "flooded lead acid " batteries.All USA bAttery manufacturers must use
A certain percentage of recycled lead in their process to promte lead recycling.
I guess that means a manufacturer could produce premium batteries using only
Virgin lead. They said there were at the time only 7 battery manufacturers in
The USA. Feel free to add more to this. I believe the Manufacturer that TV show was filmed at was EXIDE
Just what I thnk I know.
DAVE KING
lurker, wannabe
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
[Updated on: Wed, 24 June 2020 20:21] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Batteries [message #356068 is a reply to message #356063] |
Thu, 25 June 2020 10:28 |
Silvernort
Messages: 95
Registered: June 2019
Location: Rock Springs, WI
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Ok, summation questions: house batteries better in front or back or "a wash"?
2- 6v in series or one 12v or, again, either it don't matter?
Thanks,
Cheers
Shane Harvey
1973 26' "Packer Backer", 1976 Palm Beach, 1965 Dart
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