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| Engine transmission replacement [message #354277] |
Thu, 30 April 2020 09:21  |
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Husker92592
Messages: 137
Registered: August 2013
Location: Temecula ca
Karma: -4
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Senior Member |
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Everyone, I have been searching the forum and I would suspect I am not utilizing the right verbiage but I need to disco and replace my 455 and transmission. I know that it is easier to take the engine trans assembly out of the bottom by raising the coach 3 feet and removing the grill but I do not see this or the removal through the hatch.
Is the a website with detailed instructions? It is time to replace the radiator as well but with out having a 12,000 pound hoist how is this done? Or do we go through the hatch on everything?
If so is the a loaner program for all the hoist and trolleys?
thanks
Grant
1974 GMC Sequoia 26'
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| Re: Engine transmission replacement [message #354280 is a reply to message #354277] |
Thu, 30 April 2020 10:18  |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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When I did mine, I dropped it out the bottom. I had to raise the front end about 32 inches, but did not remove the grille, only the radiator. I took all the accessories off the front of the engine, including the water pump and the harmonic balancer and dropped the entire drivetrain assembly, including the final drive, out the bottom.
I have a simple gantry that Steve Ferguson gave me, made from 2 X 2 tubing and angle iron that I used to suspend the engine with a couple of come-alongs.
It was a lot of work, but not all that difficult. It would have been easier with some help, but I was able to do it all myself with several trips in and out of the coach.
Opinions WILL vary
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine transmission replacement [message #354282 is a reply to message #354277] |
Thu, 30 April 2020 10:23 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Grant,
I can't say it's a good one, but this album documents my first bottom-up
installation of the complete engine/transmission/final drive assemblies.
I'm fortunate to have a drive-on rack, but that just makes getting
underneath easier than jacking the coach up 31"-36"+.
The main thing I'd emphasize is that you should suspend the engine with two
hoists, one using a chain yoke between the 3/8"-16 bolt holes in the rear
of the heads and the other between 3/8"-16 intake manifold bolts FORWARD of
the carb flange. That forward position is necessary to allow the engine to
hang at about 45* so the water pump will clear the front crossmember.
Aside from telling you where the front and rear motor mount bolts are, the
rest is pretty straight forward -- everything's got to come off & be put
back on & if you don't recognize it all, maybe you should try this alone!
:-)
Oh yeah, you mentioned removing the grille -- I don't have any idea why one
would do that.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, Troy-Bilt APU, etc., etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 10:22 AM Grant Schaffer via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Everyone, I have been searching the forum and I would suspect I am not
> utilizing the right verbiage but I need to disco and replace my 455 and
> transmission. I know that it is easier to take the engine trans assembly
> out of the bottom by raising the coach 3 feet and removing the grill but I
> do
> not see this or the removal through the hatch.
>
> Is the a website with detailed instructions? It is time to replace the
> radiator as well but with out having a 12,000 pound hoist how is this done?
> Or
> do we go through the hatch on everything?
>
> If so is the a loaner program for all the hoist and trolleys?
>
> thanks
> Grant
> --
> 1974 GMC Sequoia 26'
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Engine transmission replacement [message #354283 is a reply to message #354277] |
Thu, 30 April 2020 10:46 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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I've done both engine and transmission at different times. I took the engine out the top. If you have a 23' coach, you can lift it out with a stinger hoist. If you have a 26', you will need a trolley and hoist to remove it out the top. The transmission comes out the bottom if the coach is lifted and cribbed so the front is about 18" up at the crossmmember, it can be tilted and worked out and back in. If you're going to do all of it, you might consider pulling the entire front frame clip out the front of the coach. Several folks have done that. Looks to be no worse of a PIA than doing both separately, and it makes it a lot easier to get at stuff.
If we knew where you are, we'd know if there's anyone close who might give advice or help. If we knew who you are, we'd know who we were speaking to when we met somewhere.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Engine transmission replacement [message #354295 is a reply to message #354277] |
Thu, 30 April 2020 13:02 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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after doing a couple using a gantree crane, I am personally of a belief that going out the top is the easiest. jacking that thing up that high in the front to get the engine down and out, just does not look like something I would want to be doing personally. But I know many that do it that way.
I have also seen people pull the front clip, and they claim that is so they can see and work on suspension, ect.... but for my expeerience working on my 75, that has air lines, brake lines, fuel lines, and such, I would not want to attempt that either.
video of us pulling my engine. took 1 day to take everything off and not that long to actually extract the engine. The trip the new engine took from the engine stand to the bolts installed on the transmission was maybe 10 minutes too. but then took me 2 days of reinstalling the parts and such until I was ready to fire up the new engine.
https://youtu.be/xXbIuA8ii3g
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine transmission replacement [message #354297 is a reply to message #354293] |
Thu, 30 April 2020 13:15 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Several have removed the whole front clip, and fashioned trailing caster
wheels temporarily attached to the back of the clip, so that it can be
rolled out from under the coach.
There is no short-cut easy method to removing and replacing the
engine.
Other factors determine which way works the best for each job. If you
need no transmission or final drive work, then you might consider removing
the engine out the top. If you do need transmission work, then, perhaps the
out the bottom method might work better for you. If your front suspension,
or frame needs attention, then the whole clip removal might appeal to you.
Or, the area that you have to work on your coach might be a determining
factor.
Remember, if your engine has to go in for some machine shop work,
(most do) then your coach sits there while they schedule and repair it.
Another factor.
In most cases that I encounter, the out the top method makes the most
sense for me. I have a large enough shop to allow rolling a cherry picker
around beside the coach, and several engine stands. So, available tools and
equipment also factor in. Just the way it is.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 10:44 AM Grant Schaffer via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Has anyone removed the whole front clip?
> --
> 1974 GMC Sequoia 26'
>
>
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| Re: Engine transmission replacement [message #354299 is a reply to message #354296] |
Thu, 30 April 2020 13:45 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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This is why it is important to be involved in your local clubs.. not only do you meet great people and get an excuse to use your coach. When you are in need, people that know you step up and help out.
there are plans to build your own gantree on the GMC sites, and plenty of photos of some nice gantrees, and some rudimentary gantrees.
when I lost my engine, a few club members I know approached me letting me know they had a gantree that i could use if needed.
if you don't have that availability, I think you are stuck making your own. I think you still need one if you drop it out the bottom, just a short one. Unless you are dealing with a 23'(a cherry picker will reach a 23' engine).
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine transmission replacement [message #354300 is a reply to message #354295] |
Thu, 30 April 2020 13:31 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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My first GMC engine removal was out the top. Since I've got a 23' I was
able to use a long-armed engine hoist through the door.
For the next swap I build a gantry like that shown in the service manual
and took first the transmission and then the engine out the bottom.
Then I bought a completely rebuilt front clip, ready to run. So that
required pulling my clip and installing the new one, plus installing my
clip into the other coach (which my son still has after 10 years or so).
Finally, I've done 2 or 3 engine+transmission+FD changes while on my
service rack. No question whatsoever that this last option is the only one
I'll ever consider again. Of course, I don't have to do all the jacking up
and shoring up that most require -- but I'd still choose that over the
other methods.
JMHO,
Ken "Who once considered changing engines fun" H.
On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 2:02 PM Jon Roche via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> after doing a couple using a gantree crane, I am personally of a belief
> that going out the top is the easiest. jacking that thing up that high
> in
> the front to get the engine down and out, just does not look like
> something I would want to be doing personally. But I know many that do it
> that
> way.
>
> I have also seen people pull the front clip, and they claim that is so
> they can see and work on suspension, ect.... but for my expeerience working
> on my 75, that has air lines, brake lines, fuel lines, and such, I would
> not want to attempt that either.
>
> video of us pulling my engine. took 1 day to take everything off and not
> that long to actually extract the engine. The trip the new engine took
> from the engine stand to the bolts installed on the transmission was maybe
> 10 minutes too. but then took me 2 days of reinstalling the parts and
> such until I was ready to fire up the new engine.
>
>
> https://youtu.be/xXbIuA8ii3g
> --
> Jon Roche
> 75 palm beach
> EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
> St. Cloud, MN
> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Engine transmission replacement [message #354308 is a reply to message #354277] |
Thu, 30 April 2020 18:36 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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OK, Here he comes again......
Ready, I have a barn with a nice lift. It is a nice lift that I installed about a decade before Chaumière came to live with us. The lift is 7K capable and way toward the back of the bay. It can lift half a coach that can fit in the door. The barn was built with a 10' side wall and then the PO poured about a 3" floor in there. (OK, so now I am at 9'9" and maybe I'll tell you about the door later.) This is why I changed to a low profile A/C.
Something went wrong on the eclipse run to Paducah, the lube oil consumption went from less than a quart in 2Kmiles to more than a quart in 500. Well something had to be done. The engine had been out before, that was a given, but I knew nothing more than that. The stack of receipts were no help. I had to take a local GMC friend up to see Dave Lenzi. While there we were looking at one of his 8.1 builds. He had a front frame there on some casters. I was telling him that I was not looking forward to taking the engine out. He suggested that I do it his way. Out the front.
Dave explained that the casters were new when he took up doing the 8.1 builds. He had previously just rolled the frame section out on 3 floor jacks. Of course, Dave would have three floor jacks.
With the grill out, the steering box and battery tray removed, the coolant drained and the A/C opened (and a whole big lot of little stuff - electrics, brake, fuel and air (it's a 73) there is then the torsion bars and the dozen big bolts that hold the front frame to the rest, it comes out. If your coach is old enough to have the three tube cab supports, the A/C pump can interfere, so watch for that.
Once clear of the body, you can then clear things away to lift the engine to your Heavy Duty engine stand. With whole engine in the middle of a working bay and now able to get the good torch on it, I successfully removed the exhaust parts. When I got the engine back together and wanted to both test run it and brake in the new cam, I had a complete stand ready.
Someone remarked here that doing much of the front dress in the coach was reminiscent of building a ship in a bottle. I agree, while alternators aren't that bad, changing fan clutches and water pumps are memorable. This case, I could put the engine is with the front dress complete.
It turns out that there are some other considerations too. I could not separate the exhaust at the manifold and only a few of the manifold fasteners were removable. This became a big non-issue. I really don't like having a torch in a vehicle. I had to break the exhaust at the turn to the rear. I knew that would work because I have replaced the long run to the rear only a couple of years prior and it was still dripping anti-seize. Ready?? Here comes the "Oh - 5h1t" moment.... The top of both mufflers were about to breach. Big Rust patches and flakes. That would have been a read about it in the news event for sure.
From there until run-in was largely just measuring and twisting wrenches. (I always do build books.) Putting it back in was just the reverse. I did fill the barn with smoke during the run-in even with the new exhaust pointed out the door.
She was back together and then we did the run to Amana and home, then and Albany and home, so that was a 3200 mile break-in run.
Here comes another "Here he goes AGAIN". This all served me well for a reason I hope nobody else gets to know. The next spring were there in Tallahassee. When we get places we always look for friends in striking range, and there were two. One was a sailing friend on Jekyll Island GA and other was my brother in Columbia SC. We departed Jekyll Island and were about 10 miles into SC, then the right lower control arm failed and we went into the ditch in the median at 60MPH. With a lot of help from the community, we got her repaired enough to get our wounded coach home. I knew the frame was bent, but until I measured it, I did know how much. I couldn't get a frame shop to even touch it. The pass car places said it was too big and the truck places said it was too small. There are other issues too. So, I cast around for a good (including not rusted) replacement frame section. Dolph had one and was coming my way. So, guess what I did for the second time in a year.....
That trip report is still being assembled.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Engine transmission replacement [message #354309 is a reply to message #354277] |
Thu, 30 April 2020 18:40 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Let me point out, I did engine once out the top and transmission several times (don't ask) out the bottom. Never removed the final drive or the drive axles for either. I borrowed a friend's trolley. Had it not been available, I would have had to make one. The engine and at least one of the transmissions were done single handed. At no time did I need to get under the coach directly beneath the stuff being removed. I did both over a period of several days, since there was no hurry. Two people should cut the required time more than in half. A fair shade tree mechanic (me) had no great trouble. Take lots of pictures and make copious notes. Since I didn't I'm still sorting out my cruise control. Since my time is available, I saved substantial loot. I believe Jim Bounds says they figure 9 hours to R&R an engine. At Atlanta rates, that's just over a thousand dollars. Manny Travao does a transmission out in about an hour and back in about the same. When you have done as many as he, you can probably do the same. Otherwise figure the best part of a day each way.
As with everything on the GMC, first time's a Learning Experience.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Engine transmission replacement [message #354310 is a reply to message #354277] |
Thu, 30 April 2020 19:00 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Knock on wood, I have so far had better luck than Colie. When I lost a rear wheel, I got it back out of the median. I believe his disappeared into the swamp. When the engine lunched I was maybe a hundred yards from a roadside rest into which I rattled and coasted - And I had bought the RV tow inshoance off FMCA. A negotiated extra hundred landed it in my yard and it ran enough to move into its shed from where the wrecker had to drop it on the driveway. When the transmission expired, the wrecker service guy said he was sending a wrecker up to Knoxville either that evening or the next day and if I could wait, he'd cut me a deal to take it to Chuck Boyd's shop where there was room. He cut me a hell of a deal, I never got a bill and he never ran the credit card. The driver had the address, and called me on the phone "I think I'm here, there's six more of these here". I told him he was, drop it where it would be out of the way.
On the theory that I have probably used up all my available GMC luck on these escapades, I now do rather more planning, and pay rather more attention to repairs and upgrades. Throughout, I have had help and support from GMCers across the country. I try to pay it forward. Reach out the the clubs, there's one or two near you.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine transmission replacement [message #354321 is a reply to message #354310] |
Fri, 01 May 2020 09:56 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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There are some basic tricks I learned from the Older guys back in 1980 that
will save you lot of extra work that you never see in publication. Feel
free to call so we can discuss.
At least get an idea of some basics and save frustration.
On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 5:01 PM Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Knock on wood, I have so far had better luck than Colie. When I lost a
> rear wheel, I got it back out of the median. I believe his disappeared into
> the swamp. When the engine lunched I was maybe a hundred yards from a
> roadside rest into which I rattled and coasted - And I had bought the RV tow
> inshoance off FMCA. A negotiated extra hundred landed it in my yard and
> it ran enough to move into its shed from where the wrecker had to drop it on
> the driveway. When the transmission expired, the wrecker service guy said
> he was sending a wrecker up to Knoxville either that evening or the next
> day and if I could wait, he'd cut me a deal to take it to Chuck Boyd's
> shop where there was room. He cut me a hell of a deal, I never got a bill
> and
> he never ran the credit card. The driver had the address, and called me
> on the phone "I think I'm here, there's six more of these here". I told him
> he was, drop it where it would be out of the way.
>
> On the theory that I have probably used up all my available GMC luck on
> these escapades, I now do rather more planning, and pay rather more
> attention
> to repairs and upgrades. Throughout, I have had help and support from
> GMCers across the country. I try to pay it forward. Reach out the the
> clubs,
> there's one or two near you.
>
> --johnny
> --
> Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> in hell
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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