Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Tire question.....again
| Tire question.....again [message #353841] |
Thu, 16 April 2020 10:56  |
6cuda6
Messages: 975
Registered: June 2019
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So after much boredom and reading about coach weights and articles from weigh-ins etc as i need 6 new tires....has anyone put "E" load rating on the front and "D" load rating on the rear [same brand of course if possible)?
The reason im asking is: 1 = cost and 2 = tread design....so if one wanted something with a more aggressive tread design for better drive traction but not wanting/needing that on the rear (or the noise for that matter).
Rich Mondor,
Brockville, ON
77 Hughes 2600
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| Re: Tire question.....again [message #353843 is a reply to message #353841] |
Thu, 16 April 2020 11:41  |
Scott Nutter
Messages: 782
Registered: January 2015
Location: Houston/San Diego
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Carl S should be able to help you out on this one. I believe he is running dodge 8" rims up front with a bigger tire, with a more aggressive tread pattern. He runs a lot on dirt/sand roads.
Scott.
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, Dave Lenzi super duty mid axle disc brakes, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera installed MSD Atomic EFI
Houston, Texas
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| Re: Tire question.....again [message #353844 is a reply to message #353841] |
Thu, 16 April 2020 11:46 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
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I was doing the opposite, with a 255/70R16 LR-D on my 8" wide Dodge Truck wheels on the front (BFG All Terrains) and 225/75R16 LR-E on the rear. I wasn't worried about the weight capacity on the front tires since they were bigger and were rated to carry a fair amount more weight than the smaller rear tires anyway.
I think you might find a D rated tire hard to find. There are plenty of options in an E rated tire.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/mechanical/p34781-dodge-front-wheels.html
I have since switched to Cooper 245/70R16 AT-3 LR-E on the front. The BFGs wore out too fast.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: Tire question.....again [message #353845 is a reply to message #353841] |
Thu, 16 April 2020 12:16 |
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Richard RV
Messages: 631
Registered: July 2012
Location: Full-timer for 12 years, ...
Karma: -17
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Rich,
Which tire would you carry as a spare - D or E? Same question goes for Carl with two different size tires.
The front wheels get the most wear by far. Having the same tires allows you to rotate the tires and always have the best tires on the front.
Two new tires up front every two years, and shift the best four back is a good rule of thumb.
Richard
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach under construction;
‘76 Edgemont waiting its turn
[Updated on: Thu, 16 April 2020 12:18] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Tire question.....again [message #353852 is a reply to message #353845] |
Thu, 16 April 2020 12:43 |
6cuda6
Messages: 975
Registered: June 2019
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My thought was more along the lines that they would time out before anything else.
Richard RV wrote on Thu, 16 April 2020 13:16Rich,
Which tire would you carry as a spare - D or E? Same question goes for Carl with two different size tires.
The front wheels get the most wear by far. Having the same tires allows you to rotate the tires and always have the best tires on the front.
Two new tires up front every two years, and shift the best four back is a good rule of thumb.
Richard
Rich Mondor,
Brockville, ON
77 Hughes 2600
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| Re: Tire question.....again [message #353853 is a reply to message #353841] |
Thu, 16 April 2020 12:58 |
Scott Nutter
Messages: 782
Registered: January 2015
Location: Houston/San Diego
Karma: 4
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Carl has the quadbag system. He could isolate out the rear tires so he could make it to a tire shop, within a reasonable distance, with a flat. My spare would be the front tire..
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, Dave Lenzi super duty mid axle disc brakes, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera installed MSD Atomic EFI
Houston, Texas
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| Re: Tire question.....again [message #353855 is a reply to message #353853] |
Thu, 16 April 2020 13:23 |
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Richard RV
Messages: 631
Registered: July 2012
Location: Full-timer for 12 years, ...
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Scott,
I find it very unsettling to see people mention that scenario with the quadrabags. Yes, theoretically you can lift the one wheel and drive on 3 rear tires. Not theoretically, it's severely overloading both the tire and the rim on the wounded side.
E range tires, at 80 psi, and the Alcoa rims are both rated for a maximum load of about 2750 pounds. A typical weight coach would overload the tire and the rim by about 30-40%, and on some of the coaches I've helped weigh it'd be closer to 60%. To my way of thinking that's like asking "I'm in a bad situation, how can I make it worse...?"
YMMV, but the load ratings don't.
Unless it's truly an emergency it's just a bad idea.
Richard
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach under construction;
‘76 Edgemont waiting its turn
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| Re: Tire question.....again [message #353858 is a reply to message #353841] |
Thu, 16 April 2020 14:27 |
Scott Nutter
Messages: 782
Registered: January 2015
Location: Houston/San Diego
Karma: 4
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Richard,
I completely understand your way of thinking on this. But on the other hand, it is nice to know that it can be done. But only as a last case scenario.
I would still carry the front as a spare. If the rear had a flat I would disconnect the tow vehicle, pull off the rear tire and drive it to the nearest tire shop for replacement. But only after I found a safe place to pull over. The quadrabags gives you that option of finding a safe spot.
Scott.
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, Dave Lenzi super duty mid axle disc brakes, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera installed MSD Atomic EFI
Houston, Texas
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| Re: Tire question.....again [message #353860 is a reply to message #353855] |
Thu, 16 April 2020 14:35 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Richard has been to and worked every weigh-in we have done at the GMCMI rallies. He has seen how much weight and out of balance the rears carry on a lot of coaches. The idea of riding on a single tire more than a few hundred feet bothers me as much as it bothers him.
First of all to even get to the rated weight rating on the remaining tire you will need to stop, get out an air compressor, and air up the tire to 80 PSI. Even then you are around 1300 pounds over weight of the tire and wheel. The weight the tire is carrying is supported almost entirely by the air contained inside it. So to carry that amount of weight very far I suspect some additional air pressure, well over 80 PSI, would be required. I went to the Micheline inflation tables for an LT 225-75/R16 which end at 80 PSI. Extrapolating that info it looks like for every 5 psi added the tire can carry an additional 250 to 300 pounds. So it appears that the air would have to be aired up to something a little over 100 PSI to carry all of the the weight on one tire. That still does not help the wheel capacity.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Tire question.....again [message #353862 is a reply to message #353860] |
Thu, 16 April 2020 14:55 |
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Richard RV
Messages: 631
Registered: July 2012
Location: Full-timer for 12 years, ...
Karma: -17
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Thank you, Ken. I really enjoy helping weigh the coaches. It's a lot of fun and pretty critical information. We've seen some interesting load and ride height "techniques", that's for sure! Thanks for doing all the hard work.
Your point about the tire load vs. psi is of course crucial. The idea of maxing out the rated air pressure and then adding 50% more than the rated load could lead to..."exciting developments" with the good tire on that side! Then there's the question of an eccentrically loaded bogey box and the quadrabag hard parts and airbags. What's their maximum rated load? Ever been tested to destruction on a singly loaded wheel? Even if the quadrabag set up could take the punishment the weak link is still the tire/wheel.
The whole scenario is just screaming to have something happen that's way more catastrophic than a flat tire. The best outcome of a failure would be two flat tires, and it gets exponentially more damaging and costly from there.
If you're broke down in a traffic lane at night, hell yes, get off the highway and onto the shoulder. Then call for a tow.
Richard
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach under construction;
‘76 Edgemont waiting its turn
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| Re: Tire question.....again [message #353867 is a reply to message #353841] |
Thu, 16 April 2020 16:38 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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They say Load range D tires can handle our weight just fine. but for me personally, from experience running a fleet of trucks/vans delivering over the pacific NW backin late 90's, taught me that we had load range D on our trucks and tires were failing. We went with all load Range E, and the flat tire problem went away. These were trucks that were inspected and weighed. It was not a constant problem, but one flat tire a month was a hassle. I personally will only consider load range E tires for my coach. the extra cost is not worth worrying about.
my stimulus check just hit my bank account and so far my wife and I have been consitered essential and paychecks are still showing up weekly. So if things settle down in the next month, I will be out shopping for another 4 load range E tires to mount on the 4 alcoas I picked up last fall to replace my 7 year old 16" firestone transforces.
as far as spares. I have a pretty old good looking spare. It is a 16.5 ". I have run that on my front after chippawa falls rally, and I also have the 8" wide dodge wheels. So as long as a spare holds air, I am good because it just needs to get me to the next tire store. I am not sure i will put one of my 16" steel w/ the 7 year old transforces on as my spare. I am not sure it will clear my 80mm front calipers if needed. I may check when I do the tire swapping. I will probably keep hauling around my 10 year old 16.5" rim/tire until I come across another alcoa rim for the spare.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: Tire question.....again [message #353868 is a reply to message #353845] |
Thu, 16 April 2020 16:40 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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I just carry a rear wheel/tire, and an extra set of lug nuts for a spare. It will fit on the front just like the stock set-up. It may handle a little differently, but I don't see it as a problem.
That said, I have never had a flat or a separation that I have had to change except on the rears, in almost 12 years and over 45,000 miles.
Most, even 26' coaches run about 65 psi all the way around. That is the max pressure for a load range D tire anyway, so theoretically a load range E tire is not necessary. But, like I pointed out earlier, you will probably find it difficult to even find a 225/75 tire in LR-D.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: Tire question.....again [message #353870 is a reply to message #353841] |
Thu, 16 April 2020 16:51 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Caerl, if the diameter is different by very much across the front, particularly if you have a limited slip differential, don't use it there. Stick a good back tire up front and throw the outlaw on the back.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Tire question.....again [message #353871 is a reply to message #353841] |
Thu, 16 April 2020 16:55 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Cooper HT3s with very quiet tread and M/S rating in E load were last bought by me at about $120 per tire. When on sale. Can you beat that with Ds that could he very hard to find and marginal on a heavy coach? Why?
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Tire question.....again [message #353875 is a reply to message #353871] |
Thu, 16 April 2020 18:41 |
6cuda6
Messages: 975
Registered: June 2019
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Sadly the cheapest 225/75 you can find here, un mounted without taxes etc is 125 each for some brand ive never heard of....anything i would call "house hold brand" starts at about 150 each.... so lets call it a grand plus 13% tax which is nuts.....
JohnL455 wrote on Thu, 16 April 2020 17:55Cooper HT3s with very quiet tread and M/S rating in E load were last bought by me at about $120 per tire. When on sale. Can you beat that with Ds that could he very hard to find and marginal on a heavy coach? Why?
Rich Mondor,
Brockville, ON
77 Hughes 2600
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| Re: Tire question.....again [message #353878 is a reply to message #353841] |
Thu, 16 April 2020 19:53 |
kingd
Messages: 592
Registered: June 2004
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Rich, I have a connection to a tire shop in Brampton. There don't do Michelin.
Would you like me to ask them abut 6 tires for you?
DAVE KNG
TORONTO
DAVE KING
lurker, wannabe
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Re: Tire question.....again [message #353883 is a reply to message #353870] |
Thu, 16 April 2020 20:39 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Johnny Bridges wrote on Thu, 16 April 2020 14:51Carl, if the diameter is different by very much across the front, particularly if you have a limited slip differential, don't use it there. Stick a good back tire up front and throw the outlaw on the back.
--johnny
Johnny,
There is a scant quarter inch difference between the diameter of the 245/70 and the 225/75. I'm not worried about that small of a difference. I don't think it will heat up the LSD very much. Of course, I have yet to try that theory out.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: Tire question.....again [message #353884 is a reply to message #353841] |
Thu, 16 April 2020 20:54 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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The Farm and Fleet runs buy 3 get one free. So for us just 25% off on 6 And a $70 pre paid visa card as well. Big Cooper volume dealer so fresh date codes. Happens like 4 times a year. I brought in 3 wheels at a time so 2 trips (using spare and junk tire place holder). So I did jacking and torquing.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Tire question.....again [message #353889 is a reply to message #353878] |
Fri, 17 April 2020 06:01 |
6cuda6
Messages: 975
Registered: June 2019
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No harm in asking him Dave....thanks. Not worries about Michelin, that'ss whats on there now and they are badly weather cracked so i'm gun shy on them again [although they did make the 800mile trip home from the PO's the way they are....lol....i just know the probably wont pass a safety inspection they way they are]
kingd wrote on Thu, 16 April 2020 20:53Rich, I have a connection to a tire shop in Brampton. There don't do Michelin.
Would you like me to ask them abut 6 tires for you?
DAVE KNG
TORONTO
Rich Mondor,
Brockville, ON
77 Hughes 2600
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