Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Engine hoist main beam sizing
| Engine hoist main beam sizing [message #353129] |
Wed, 25 March 2020 16:08  |
Ty Hardiman
Messages: 43
Registered: April 2017
Location: Norman, Oklahoma
Karma: 0
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During this down time I would like to get with my welder and build a hoist & trolley for an "out-the-top" engine removal. I've done a lot of research on the GMCMH photos page, and there are lots of great ideas there. I have some questions about the main beam sizing and I know we have quite a few engineers and experienced people on the GMCnet. I don't want to undersize the main beam but I also don't want it to weigh more than necessary from being oversized. I know my way around lumber but I'm lost when it comes to calculations involving things like "bending moment", "moment of inertia", and "modulus of elasticity". Maybe someone can run a calculation or at least give me real world knowledge.
1. I'm assuming a 144" length with a 700lb engine weight, no more than 100lb beam weight, and an L/360 deflection limit. Are these good numbers? What would be an appropriate safety factor?
2. Is there an advantage between an S or W beams or hollow structural sections (HSS) in terms of weight or any other criteria? Flange beam trolleys seem readily available at HF or Northern Tool, whereas on the GMCMHphoto page it looks like people using HSS beams have made their own trolley.
3. And based on the choice between S, W, or HSS beams, what is the appropriate size & thickness to use?
Thanks all in advance.
Ty
Norman, OK / August 1977 Kingsley / 403 / 3.55 / 16" / Quadrajet
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| Re: Engine hoist main beam sizing [message #353132 is a reply to message #353129] |
Wed, 25 March 2020 16:34  |
Tilerpep
Messages: 404
Registered: June 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC
Karma: 7
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The custom rig used to get mine out, and about to go back in - has a main beam technically cited as "the top of a swingset"! Round, about three inches diameter, stout, found it in the woods, and has served for 1.5 engine replacements. YMMV
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
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| Re: Engine hoist main beam sizing [message #353150 is a reply to message #353132] |
Thu, 26 March 2020 11:31 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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I used an I beam,trolly and chain fall from harbor freight. Shored it up with wood 4 by 4's and a 4 by 6 in the rear wood that I had laying around. The I beam was a bit short so I used a 4 wheel dolly to get the engine to the door. I didn't want to get too elaborate with something i my not use again.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine hoist main beam sizing [message #353153 is a reply to message #353151] |
Thu, 26 March 2020 12:16 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Will do.
Jim Hupy
On Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 10:09 AM John Wright via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Jim,
> Email the photos and drawings to me and I will get them up on the Photo
> site.
>
> J.R. Wright
> GMC Great Laker
> GMCGL Tech Editor
> GMC Eastern States
> GMCMHI
> TZE Zone Restorations
> 78 Buskirk Custom 29.5' Stretch
> 75 Avion (Under going Frame up Restoration)
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 9:49 AM James Hupy via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> I am setting up my out the top gantry is a coach, later today. I will
> take
>> pictures, and provide sketches with dimensions later. Contact me later in
>> the week by e-mail and I will send them to you.
>> Jim Hupy
>> Salem, Oregon
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 9:42 AM roy keen via Gmclist > gmclist@list.gmcnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I used an I beam,trolly and chain fall from harbor freight. Shored it
> up
>>> with wood 4 by 4's and a 4 by 6 in the rear wood that I had laying
>> around.
>>> The I beam was a bit short so I used a 4 wheel dolly to get the engine
> to
>>> the door. I didn't want to get too elaborate with something i my not
> use
>>> again.
>>> --
>>> Roy Keen
>>> Minden,NV
>>> 76 X Glenbrook
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine hoist main beam sizing [message #353154 is a reply to message #353151] |
Thu, 26 March 2020 12:19 |
powwerjon
Messages: 849
Registered: March 2013
Karma: -2
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Senior Member |
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Seems like I have a lot more time on my hands.
J.R. Wright
GMC Great Laker
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMC Eastern States
GMCMHI
TZE Zone Restorations
78 Buskirk Custom 29.5' Stretch
75 Avion (Under going Frame up Restoration)
On Location In Tucson
On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:11 AM James Hupy via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Will do.
> Jim Hupy
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 10:09 AM John Wright via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Jim,
>> Email the photos and drawings to me and I will get them up on the Photo
>> site.
>>
>> J.R. Wright
>> GMC Great Laker
>> GMCGL Tech Editor
>> GMC Eastern States
>> GMCMHI
>> TZE Zone Restorations
>> 78 Buskirk Custom 29.5' Stretch
>> 75 Avion (Under going Frame up Restoration)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 9:49 AM James Hupy via Gmclist > gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I am setting up my out the top gantry is a coach, later today. I will
>> take
>>> pictures, and provide sketches with dimensions later. Contact me later
> in
>>> the week by e-mail and I will send them to you.
>>> Jim Hupy
>>> Salem, Oregon
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 9:42 AM roy keen via Gmclist >> gmclist@list.gmcnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I used an I beam,trolly and chain fall from harbor freight. Shored it
>> up
>>>> with wood 4 by 4's and a 4 by 6 in the rear wood that I had laying
>>> around.
>>>> The I beam was a bit short so I used a 4 wheel dolly to get the
> engine
>> to
>>>> the door. I didn't want to get too elaborate with something i my not
>> use
>>>> again.
>>>> --
>>>> Roy Keen
>>>> Minden,NV
>>>> 76 X Glenbrook
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine hoist main beam sizing [message #353155 is a reply to message #353151] |
Thu, 26 March 2020 12:08 |
powwerjon
Messages: 849
Registered: March 2013
Karma: -2
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Senior Member |
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Jim,
Email the photos and drawings to me and I will get them up on the Photo
site.
J.R. Wright
GMC Great Laker
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMC Eastern States
GMCMHI
TZE Zone Restorations
78 Buskirk Custom 29.5' Stretch
75 Avion (Under going Frame up Restoration)
On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 9:49 AM James Hupy via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> I am setting up my out the top gantry is a coach, later today. I will take
> pictures, and provide sketches with dimensions later. Contact me later in
> the week by e-mail and I will send them to you.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 9:42 AM roy keen via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org>
> wrote:
>
>> I used an I beam,trolly and chain fall from harbor freight. Shored it up
>> with wood 4 by 4's and a 4 by 6 in the rear wood that I had laying
> around.
>> The I beam was a bit short so I used a 4 wheel dolly to get the engine to
>> the door. I didn't want to get too elaborate with something i my not use
>> again.
>> --
>> Roy Keen
>> Minden,NV
>> 76 X Glenbrook
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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| Re: Engine hoist main beam sizing [message #353156 is a reply to message #353129] |
Thu, 26 March 2020 12:46 |
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wally
Messages: 643
Registered: August 2004
Location: Omaha Nebraska
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Ty Hardiman wrote on Wed, 25 March 2020 16:08During this down time I would like to get with my welder and build a hoist & trolley for an "out-the-top" engine removal. I've done a lot of research on the GMCMH photos page, and there are lots of great ideas there. I have some questions about the main beam sizing and I know we have quite a few engineers and experienced people on the GMCnet. I don't want to undersize the main beam but I also don't want it to weigh more than necessary from being oversized. I know my way around lumber but I'm lost when it comes to calculations involving things like "bending moment", "moment of inertia", and "modulus of elasticity". Maybe someone can run a calculation or at least give me real world knowledge.
1. I'm assuming a 144" length with a 700lb engine weight, no more than 100lb beam weight, and an L/360 deflection limit. Are these good numbers? What would be an appropriate safety factor?
2. Is there an advantage between an S or W beams or hollow structural sections (HSS) in terms of weight or any other criteria? Flange beam trolleys seem readily available at HF or Northern Tool, whereas on the GMCMHphoto page it looks like people using HSS beams have made their own trolley.
3. And based on the choice between S, W, or HSS beams, what is the appropriate size & thickness to use?
Thanks all in advance.
Ty
Our top beam 94" long 2 inch square tube 1/4" wall. It's been battle tested.
Wally Anderson
Omaha NE
75 Glenbrook
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| Re: Engine hoist main beam sizing [message #353169 is a reply to message #353129] |
Fri, 27 March 2020 07:57 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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I used Chuck Boyd's. You have to take the rear view mirror off, but beyond that it'[s easy. Get a helper to set it up and take it down. Chuck's could pick the coach up without much strain.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Engine hoist main beam sizing [message #353179 is a reply to message #353178] |
Fri, 27 March 2020 23:15 |
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Richard RV
Messages: 631
Registered: July 2012
Location: Full-timer for 12 years, ...
Karma: -17
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Senior Member |
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Jerry Sitzlar wrote on Fri, 27 March 2020 23:01Johnny,
I helped Chuck set that sucker up once upon a time. It took 4 very old men to lift that main beam and put it in place. I think you could have 4 engines hanging from that beam.
Jerry
I helped break it down once and I think there were five of us. Fifth one was mostly a spotter. Still felt dangerous. That sucker's heavy!
Ty was asking whether 1/360 was acceptable deflection. Chuck's probably has an immeasurably low amount of deflection.
Ty, deflection is not really a concern with an engine hoist. The 1/360 criteria is really meant to address deflection in a building's structure. More deflection than that and things start cracking. Think plaster and tile.
Richard
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach under construction;
‘76 Edgemont waiting its turn
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| Re: Engine hoist main beam sizing [message #353185 is a reply to message #353129] |
Sat, 28 March 2020 07:45 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Well, at age 74 I managed to erect and knock Chuck's down after engine removal - solo except for putting the main beam in the coach. That took me and a cousin I 'Tom Sawyered' into helping me move it. I can lift one end , and hook the upright on it, then lift the other end and do the same. Wish I'd had a couple more folks it would of gone quicker.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Engine hoist main beam sizing [message #353236 is a reply to message #353129] |
Sun, 29 March 2020 07:37 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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You could buy the parts for the cost of shipping that thing. Put the tailgate down, strap it in and haul iit in your truck.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine hoist main beam sizing [message #353251 is a reply to message #353236] |
Sun, 29 March 2020 10:29 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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I built a carrier on my Bronco II for the beam. Still have the carrier, but
the Bronco is long gone. The carrier mounts to the front tow bar brackets,
and is stabilized fore and aft by bolting it to the mounting holes in the
beam. The beam rests on the roof top carrier and extends forward to the
carrier. Secured by ratchet straps, to the carrier. Easy, secure. Anyone
wants it, let me know. Too much $$$$ to ship. But, you can pick it up, and
carry it in the back seat or the wayback in a SUV.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Sun, Mar 29, 2020, 5:38 AM Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> You could buy the parts for the cost of shipping that thing. Put the
> tailgate down, strap it in and haul iit in your truck.
>
> --johnny
> --
> Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> in hell
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: Engine hoist main beam sizing [message #353390 is a reply to message #353129] |
Tue, 31 March 2020 20:12 |
Ty Hardiman
Messages: 43
Registered: April 2017
Location: Norman, Oklahoma
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Jim Hupy and Chuck Boyd, can you guys post the dimension, length & wall thickness of your main beam? I was thinking of using 2x3, 2x4, or 3x3 tubing, still trying to get the right thickness - .250 will weigh over 100 lbs on a 144" 3x3. The recent post on GMCMHphotos looks like 2x2 by .250, but it's an 84" beam. Wally uses the same size on a 94" beam.
Norman, OK / August 1977 Kingsley / 403 / 3.55 / 16" / Quadrajet
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine hoist main beam sizing [message #353393 is a reply to message #353390] |
Tue, 31 March 2020 20:28 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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My main beam is a Heavy Duty Steel "H" section beam. 138" long. 2 1/2"
Wide, 3" High. 1/4" wall thickness.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 6:13 PM Ty Hardiman via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Jim Hupy and Chuck Boyd, can you guys post the dimension, length & wall
> thickness of your main beam? I was thinking of using 2x3, 2x4, or 3x3
> tubing,
> still trying to get the right thickness - .250 will weigh over 100 lbs on
> a 144" 3x3. The recent post on GMCMHphotos looks like 2x2 by .250, but it's
> an 84" beam. Wally uses the same size on a 94" beam.
> --
> Norman, OK / August 1977 Kingsley / 403 / 3.55 / 16" / Quadrajet
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: Engine hoist main beam sizing [message #353421 is a reply to message #353158] |
Wed, 01 April 2020 09:52 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Richard RV wrote on Thu, 26 March 2020 13:31Ty,
Some pictures were posted the other day on the photo site of a gantry and dolly. Might help with your design decisions.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g7285-engine-hoist.html
Richard
The hoist used in my shop to pull engines, fortunately not mine, has a 4 or 5" beam. It is too heavy.. It takes two struggling to handle the beam.
One feature the posted pictures shows::
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/engine-hoist/p67104-tanderson-gantry-05.html
A stepped arrangement at the front of the beam. This allows the beam to be further forward in the coach. This allows the beam to be higher in the coach. It also allows the front support to be further forward giving more forward room for the engine lift.
;
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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I will admit that price and availability ( delivered from Ga by Rick M) was the guiding reason I bought it sight unseen. It is strong and does work good and available for loan, pick up and return only, no shipping.