Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Not Again!!! (CV Boot)
| Not Again!!! [message #352054] |
Sat, 08 February 2020 20:02  |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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So I am underneath my coach changing the oil and taking care of a few other maintenance issues (more on that later) and I notice a bunch of grease on the trailing side of my right fender liner. A little feeling around revealed another torn CV boot. I replaced these about 4-1.2 years ago, maybe 25,000 miles, and here one is bad AGAIN!.
Fortunately, I have another shaft and new bolts to replace it with, but it is a heck of a lot of work (just venting) The spare shaft has one of the old 'blue boots' on the outer CV that Dan Gregg gave me (used) several years ago. Those seem to last.
What is the average interval that the rest of you guys are having problems with these newer boots?
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: Not Again!!! [message #352059 is a reply to message #352054] |
Sat, 08 February 2020 20:28  |
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Richard RV
Messages: 631
Registered: July 2012
Location: Full-timer for 12 years, ...
Karma: -17
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Carl,
I've noticed cracks in the boots after only 2-3 years.
The blue boots you mentioned, are those the split boots for repairs?
I've never seen a coach with blue boots. Any info on them?
Richard
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach under construction;
‘76 Edgemont waiting its turn
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| Re: Not Again!!! [message #352060 is a reply to message #352059] |
Sat, 08 February 2020 21:39 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Richard,
The 'blue boots' I am referring to are one piece silicone boots. They have been mentioned here on the GMC Net numerous times in the past. Do a search of the forum and you will find quite a few posts about them. I have one on the left side and it has held up well. I'm hoping the other one I am going to install on eht right side will hold up as well.
Unfortunately, they are no longer available. Dan had a pair, probably salvaged from his old axles when he changed to the one-ton front end. He was gracious enough to give them to me.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: Not Again!!! [message #352066 is a reply to message #352054] |
Sun, 09 February 2020 08:49 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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The Unifit black boots have more pleats so don't pull off as easily. Have held up for me.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Not Again!!! [message #352068 is a reply to message #352054] |
Sun, 09 February 2020 09:15 |
Scott Nutter
Messages: 782
Registered: January 2015
Location: Houston/San Diego
Karma: 4
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Carl,
I've had the same problem but only worse. I only got about 1 1/2 year out of 2 rebuilt axel shafts. And both failures were on the outer boots.
I got the new outer boots from Jim K, and they seem to be working fine.
The old blue super boots were the best. It would be nice if they were still available.
Scott.
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, Dave Lenzi super duty mid axle disc brakes, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera installed MSD Atomic EFI
Houston, Texas
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| Re: [GMCnet] Not Again!!! [message #352070 is a reply to message #352068] |
Sun, 09 February 2020 09:55 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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I put OEM style boots on my coach in 2008 when I rebuilt my entire front
suspension and steering on my 1978 Royale. I have a "Band-it" clamp making
tool, and it works well. My boots are still intact.
But, there is a trick to installing them. Absolutely have the large
end of the boot completely free from grease as well as the inside of the
boot. Clamp the snot out of the big end, and use a plastic zip tie on the
small end. It will move on the shaft instead of twisting the boot and
stressing it beyond the point of elasticity. They might seep a bit of
grease if you have insisted upon overgrazing the joint. Only use the pouch
of that Black, gooey, nasty, lube stuff that comes with the new boots. It
is formulated for constant velocity joints. Just what I do.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Sun, Feb 9, 2020, 7:15 AM Scott Nutter via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Carl,
> I've had the same problem but only worse. I only got about 1 1/2 year out
> of 2 rebuilt axel shafts. And both failures were on the outer boots.
> I got the new outer boots from Jim K, and they seem to be working fine.
> The old blue super boots were the best. It would be nice if they were
> still available.
> Scott.
> --
> Scott Nutter
> 1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final
> drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera
> installed MSD Atomic EFI
> Houston, Texas
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Not Again!!! [message #352071 is a reply to message #352070] |
Sun, 09 February 2020 10:53 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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All that makes good sense Jim. I think, from the distortion on the boot, that it has sipped (spun?). This shaft came initially from Applied GMC and was briefly on a local friend's coach that he later converted to the Manny 1-ton. I think it had, maybe 100 miles on it before I bought it from him.
I guess I can't complain about having to replace them every five years or so, but this is the third time and it is starting to get old. Hopefully the other shaft I have, with the blue silicone 'super boot' will last longer.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: Not Again!!! [message #352077 is a reply to message #352054] |
Sun, 09 February 2020 11:15 |
6cuda6
Messages: 975
Registered: June 2019
Karma: -6
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Is it torn or slit at the folds? If its in the folds it usualy is drive angle related so possibly your ride height maybe off a bit.....if its torn well that can be many things obviously.
Rich Mondor,
Brockville, ON
77 Hughes 2600
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| Re: Not Again!!! [message #352079 is a reply to message #352054] |
Sun, 09 February 2020 11:25 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Take a very close look at the cotter pins on the castellated nuts close to the axle. One of mine died on the way home from L.A. and I found the end of a pin sticking straight down.. ever hard bump drove it into the boot, looked as if.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Not Again!!! [message #352081 is a reply to message #352071] |
Sun, 09 February 2020 11:26 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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There is something to what you say about some boot setups lasting very
well, and others giving very poor service.
I have one regular customer that I did an engine swap for just early
last year. He had a torn boot on that coach when we did the swap, so I
replaced both the axle assemblies with reconditioned ones from a vendor
(not Jim K.) He came back 2 months ago for an oil change/lube service, and
to upgrade an engine oil cooler. Upon checking the boots, one was torn. So,
we yanked the axle assembly, cut off the old boot, and disassembled the
outer joint, cleaned and inspected the joint, re lubed it and installed a
new Dorman boot, using Band-it clamp on the big end, and zip tie on the
small end.
This in not my first rodeo where boots are concerned, been wrestling
with them since the swing axle VW's were popular.
I suspect, but have no empirical evidence to support my suspicions,
that ride height settings might have an effect here. I really don't know.
Some last well, and some do not.
I know that there exists out there a pneumatic tool that expands the
small end of the boot enough to install the boot without disassembling the
joint. That is stretching the heck out of that boot. Could this be a cause.
Perhaps.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Sun, Feb 9, 2020, 8:54 AM Carl Stouffer via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> All that makes good sense Jim. I think, from the distortion on the boot,
> that it has sipped (spun?). This shaft came initially from Applied GMC and
> was briefly on a local friend's coach that he later converted to the Manny
> 1-ton. I think it had, maybe 100 miles on it before I bought it from
> him.
>
> I guess I can't complain about having to replace them every five years or
> so, but this is the third time and it is starting to get old. Hopefully the
> other shaft I have, with the blue silicone 'super boot' will last longer.
> --
> Carl Stouffer
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive,
> Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
> Eagles,
> Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Not Again!!! [message #352083 is a reply to message #352081] |
Sun, 09 February 2020 11:47 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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Also good advice on the cotter pins and the ride height. I don't think either of those are the problem, but I'll check both. I haven't paid much attention to the ride height since I rebuilt the front suspension 10 years ago. It's probably time to double check it.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: Not Again!!! [message #352086 is a reply to message #352054] |
Sun, 09 February 2020 12:17 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Probably also a good idea (for several reasons) not to go holding full lock on the steering whenever possible.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Not Again!!! [message #352127 is a reply to message #352087] |
Tue, 11 February 2020 09:04 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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Although I don't have this one out yet, it seems to look a lot like the last one that failed, kind of distorted and twisted. What Jim H says about not clamping the small end really tight makes sense as it would allow some movement in the boot.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc-gmc/p59007-distorted-cv-boot.html
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] Not Again!!! [message #352129 is a reply to message #352127] |
Tue, 11 February 2020 09:10 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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Also, I have heard off net from a couple of other people that the standard boot, as pictured, is 'junk' and the Dorman boots with more pleats works much better. Vendors take note.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc-gmc/p59004-distorted-cv-boot.html
As we all know, the clearances are really tight and the problem might be caused by my penchant for driving on dirt roads, causing gravel to get in there and tear the boot. I understand this is a somewhat common problem with front wheel drive vehicles in general.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: Not Again!!! [message #352227 is a reply to message #352054] |
Mon, 17 February 2020 12:17 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Looks to me like a chemical incompatibility between the boot and grease or some other outside chemical attack. Distorted and crazed and puckered and I bet it's no longer pliable. Could it have been hit with Brakeclean or something similar?
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Not Again!!! [message #352228 is a reply to message #352054] |
Mon, 17 February 2020 13:10 |
Scott Nutter
Messages: 782
Registered: January 2015
Location: Houston/San Diego
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Carl,
That is exactly how my last two boots looked when they split. I talked to the rebuilder in Ocala Florida, and he said that when he puts the boot and grease on the joint he also squeezes out all the air and pulls the small end of the boot to the first indent to band it in place. My guess is that the boots might be a little too short, so it creates a vacuum inside the boot causing the boot to collapse at the rib. Then over time it fails..
Jim K was kind enough to send me new boots with grease. I reinstalled the new boots, but didn't extract any air..2000 miles on the new boots so far with no distortion at the rib.. maybe the cause?? Seems plausible.
Scott.
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, Dave Lenzi super duty mid axle disc brakes, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera installed MSD Atomic EFI
Houston, Texas
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| Re: Not Again!!! [message #352229 is a reply to message #352228] |
Mon, 17 February 2020 13:33 |
mghamms
Messages: 466
Registered: March 2016
Location: Ware, Massachusetts
Karma: 2
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I don't have any experience with the gmc boots but.
I had a Vw vanagon. I changed the cv joints and boots with parts from jc Whitney.
The joints lasted forever but the boots only a few months.
Bought Vw original boots from the dealer and all was good. Lasted about 10 years.
I think some boots just are junk. But I see no what to tell by looking at em.
Buy name brand from a trusted source.
1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts
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| Re: Not Again!!! [message #352230 is a reply to message #352229] |
Mon, 17 February 2020 13:36 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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I looked up my records last night. The boot lasted about 5 years and 20,000 miles. Guess I don't really have anything to complain about (?)
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: Not Again!!! [message #352232 is a reply to message #352230] |
Mon, 17 February 2020 19:34 |
mghamms
Messages: 466
Registered: March 2016
Location: Ware, Massachusetts
Karma: 2
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As far as I know the boots on mine are original 43 years old.
So 5 years is not that great.
Carl S. wrote on Mon, 17 February 2020 13:36I looked up my records last night. The boot lasted about 5 years and 20,000 miles. Guess I don't really have anything to complain about (?)
1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts
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