Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » End play in rear control arms
| End play in rear control arms [message #350881] |
Mon, 23 December 2019 12:16  |
uprooted
Messages: 72
Registered: December 2019
Location: Hilliard, OH
Karma: 0
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While I wait on the GMCMI thumb drive / manuals to show up, I had a quick technical question so that I can at least know what direction I'm going to have to go with this part of the coach. I BELIEVE the max end play for the intermediate and rear control arms is 1/8" based on what I've seen on this forum. I'm getting around 3/8 of an inch. Here is a short video: https://youtu.be/HuFoGHv9z_A
My questions for the group:
1) Is there any chance I can correct this with end hat adjustment (if they are not seized in place)
2) Will a Tru Track or similar system be a suitable remedy OR
3) With this much play is bogey pin replacement imminent.
Obviously looking to avoid option #3 as this is involved and (I think) a bit more money.
Corey P /
Hilliard, OH /
1974 Glacier 26' /
3.70 FD /
ION Wheels
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| Re: [GMCnet] End play in rear control arms [message #350883 is a reply to message #350881] |
Mon, 23 December 2019 13:30  |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Thrust, or end play is not your only problem. Adjustment will take care of
that, within reason. The real issue is that if you have that much end play,
there is a very strong likelihood that your pins and bushings are
excessively worn also.
That is a bird of a different color. Not adjustable. Remove and
replace is your only good option. $$$$$$ is involved. Bogies need to be
removed from the coach, as the pins are installed from the back side. Not a
simple fix. But, high quality replacement parts are available. The R & R of
the bushings is not easy. There are 4 in each bogie, and they are in a
blind hole, so they cannot be pressed out from the back side. Many tricks
to get them out. But, all are eating into that allotted time that costs
shop labor rates. Will Tru-traks work in lieu of bushings and pins? Not on
my coach. But, do you feel lucky? When you get it all repaired with new
pins and bushings, then tru-traks in not a bad idea to keep it from
happening again. Others may have a different perspective on this.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 10:17 AM Corey via Gmclist
wrote:
> While I wait on the GMCMI thumb drive / manuals to show up, I had a quick
> technical question so that I can at least know what direction I'm going to
> have to go with this part of the coach. I BELIEVE the max end play for the
> intermediate and rear control arms is 1/8" based on what I've seen on this
> forum. I'm getting around 3/8 of an inch. Here is a short video:
> https://youtu.be/HuFoGHv9z_A
>
> My questions for the group:
>
> 1) Is there any chance I can correct this with end hat adjustment (if they
> are not seized in place)
> 2) Will a Tru Track or similar system be a suitable remedy OR
> 3) With this much play is bogey pin replacement imminent.
>
> Obviously looking to avoid option #3 as this is involved and (I think) a
> bit more money.
>
>
>
> --
> Corey P
>
> Hilliard, OH
>
> 1974 Glacier 26'
>
> ION Wheels
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] End play in rear control arms [message #350884 is a reply to message #350883] |
Mon, 23 December 2019 15:13 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Looking at your vidio, I can see that your pin/bushings are worn out.
One can tighten the nut to to 40 ft/lbs, then back off and go 20 ft/lbs to
adjust the side play, but you'll still need to replace the pin and bushing.
True track will not solve the problem, just band aide for a short time.
On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 11:28 AM James Hupy via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Thrust, or end play is not your only problem. Adjustment will take care of
> that, within reason. The real issue is that if you have that much end play,
> there is a very strong likelihood that your pins and bushings are
> excessively worn also.
> That is a bird of a different color. Not adjustable. Remove and
> replace is your only good option. $$$$$$ is involved. Bogies need to be
> removed from the coach, as the pins are installed from the back side. Not a
> simple fix. But, high quality replacement parts are available. The R & R of
> the bushings is not easy. There are 4 in each bogie, and they are in a
> blind hole, so they cannot be pressed out from the back side. Many tricks
> to get them out. But, all are eating into that allotted time that costs
> shop labor rates. Will Tru-traks work in lieu of bushings and pins? Not on
> my coach. But, do you feel lucky? When you get it all repaired with new
> pins and bushings, then tru-traks in not a bad idea to keep it from
> happening again. Others may have a different perspective on this.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 10:17 AM Corey via Gmclist
> wrote:
>
>> While I wait on the GMCMI thumb drive / manuals to show up, I had a quick
>> technical question so that I can at least know what direction I'm going
> to
>> have to go with this part of the coach. I BELIEVE the max end play for
> the
>> intermediate and rear control arms is 1/8" based on what I've seen on
> this
>> forum. I'm getting around 3/8 of an inch. Here is a short video:
>> https://youtu.be/HuFoGHv9z_A
>>
>> My questions for the group:
>>
>> 1) Is there any chance I can correct this with end hat adjustment (if
> they
>> are not seized in place)
>> 2) Will a Tru Track or similar system be a suitable remedy OR
>> 3) With this much play is bogey pin replacement imminent.
>>
>> Obviously looking to avoid option #3 as this is involved and (I think) a
>> bit more money.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Corey P
>>
>> Hilliard, OH
>>
>> 1974 Glacier 26'
>>
>> ION Wheels
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] End play in rear control arms [message #350898 is a reply to message #350892] |
Mon, 23 December 2019 21:41 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Forget machine shop, we can rent you the reamer and good instrucuu tru oo
and heat treated pins
On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 6:16 PM Corey via Gmclist
wrote:
> From what I've seen so far, the bogie pin replacement project is tons of
> fun :lol: . I've seen the write up on this job, and understand it will
> require help from a machine shop. Any other tips or tricks out there?
> --
> Corey P
>
> Hilliard, OH
>
> 1974 Glacier 26'
>
> ION Wheels
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] End play in rear control arms [message #350909 is a reply to message #350899] |
Tue, 24 December 2019 09:21 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I did the reamer, pins ,and bushings from Jim and yes it was a ton of work
but it does make the bogey unit like new. You might find that your bushings
are not terrible but the pins are badly worn. If you can get the hats to
move in the bogey box and your new pins do not have a lot of free play when
test fitted you might be able to just run the new pins on the existing
bushings. The bronze bushings in mine had wear but most of the wear was on
the pins. I had already purchased the bushings so I removed the old and
installed the new. The bushing removal and re installation is the worst
part of the job imho.
Sully
Bellevue wa
On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 9:11 PM Corey via Gmclist
wrote:
> I may take you up on that Jim. I will call later in the week... unless
> you're open tomorrow?
> --
> Corey P
>
> Hilliard, OH
>
> 1974 Glacier 26'
>
> ION Wheels
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] End play in rear control arms [message #350958 is a reply to message #350898] |
Wed, 25 December 2019 19:47 |
jessfarr
Messages: 100
Registered: August 2004
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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All old ford solid I beam front axle folks know all bout using them reamers and fitting the pin stuff.
jofarr, Soddy daisy tn
26 footers, 74, 76 & 78
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Kanomata via Gmclist
Reply-To:
To:
Cc: Jim Kanomata
Sent: 12/23/2019 10:41:04 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] End play in rear control arms
________________________________________________________________________________
Forget machine shop, we can rent you the reamer and good instrucuu tru oo
and heat treated pins
On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 6:16 PM Corey via Gmclist
wrote:
> From what I've seen so far, the bogie pin replacement project is tons of
> fun :lol: . I've seen the write up on this job, and understand it will
> require help from a machine shop. Any other tips or tricks out there?
> --
> Corey P
>
> Hilliard, OH
>
> 1974 Glacier 26'
>
> ION Wheels
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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jesse farr, soddy tn USA '74 Canyonlands 260
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| Re: [GMCnet] End play in rear control arms [message #350959 is a reply to message #350958] |
Wed, 25 December 2019 20:25 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Yep, it is cut a tiny bit, try the pin, repeat until it will go together,
tightly. Grease often. It will last longer than you are likely to need it.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Wed, Dec 25, 2019, 5:47 PM Jesse Farr via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> All old ford solid I beam front axle folks know all bout using them
> reamers and fitting the pin stuff.
>
> jofarr, Soddy daisy tn
> 26 footers, 74, 76 & 78
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jim Kanomata via Gmclist
> Reply-To:
> To:
> Cc: Jim Kanomata
> Sent: 12/23/2019 10:41:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] End play in rear control arms
>
> ________________________________________________________________________________
>
> Forget machine shop, we can rent you the reamer and good instrucuu tru oo
> and heat treated pins
>
> On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 6:16 PM Corey via Gmclist >
> wrote:
>
>> From what I've seen so far, the bogie pin replacement project is tons of
>> fun :lol: . I've seen the write up on this job, and understand it will
>> require help from a machine shop. Any other tips or tricks out there?
>> --
>> Corey P
>>
>> Hilliard, OH
>>
>> 1974 Glacier 26'
>>
>> ION Wheels
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] End play in rear control arms [message #350964 is a reply to message #350959] |
Wed, 25 December 2019 22:56 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Our reamer is one the guides on the other hole so it automaticity line up
straight.
If you use a short one your fooling yourself.
On Wed, Dec 25, 2019 at 6:21 PM James Hupy via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Yep, it is cut a tiny bit, try the pin, repeat until it will go together,
> tightly. Grease often. It will last longer than you are likely to need it.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Wed, Dec 25, 2019, 5:47 PM Jesse Farr via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> All old ford solid I beam front axle folks know all bout using them
>> reamers and fitting the pin stuff.
>>
>> jofarr, Soddy daisy tn
>> 26 footers, 74, 76 & 78
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jim Kanomata via Gmclist
>> Reply-To:
>> To:
>> Cc: Jim Kanomata
>> Sent: 12/23/2019 10:41:04 PM
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] End play in rear control arms
>>
>>
> ________________________________________________________________________________
>>
>> Forget machine shop, we can rent you the reamer and good instrucuu tru oo
>> and heat treated pins
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 6:16 PM Corey via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> From what I've seen so far, the bogie pin replacement project is tons
> of
>>> fun :lol: . I've seen the write up on this job, and understand it will
>>> require help from a machine shop. Any other tips or tricks out there?
>>> --
>>> Corey P
>>>
>>> Hilliard, OH
>>>
>>> 1974 Glacier 26'
>>>
>>> ION Wheels
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> --
>> Jim Kanomata
>> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
>> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
>> http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
>> 1-800-752-7502
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] End play in rear control arms [message #350967 is a reply to message #350964] |
Thu, 26 December 2019 11:33 |
jessfarr
Messages: 100
Registered: August 2004
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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No argument there.
jofarr, Soddy daisy tn
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Kanomata via Gmclist
Reply-To:
To:
Cc: Jim Kanomata
Sent: 12/25/2019 11:56:42 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] End play in rear control arms
________________________________________________________________________________
Our reamer is one the guides on the other hole so it automaticity line up
straight.
If you use a short one your fooling yourself.
On Wed, Dec 25, 2019 at 6:21 PM James Hupy via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Yep, it is cut a tiny bit, try the pin, repeat until it will go together,
> tightly. Grease often. It will last longer than you are likely to need it.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Wed, Dec 25, 2019, 5:47 PM Jesse Farr via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> All old ford solid I beam front axle folks know all bout using them
>> reamers and fitting the pin stuff.
>>
>> jofarr, Soddy daisy tn
>> 26 footers, 74, 76 & 78
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jim Kanomata via Gmclist
>> Reply-To:
>> To:
>> Cc: Jim Kanomata
>> Sent: 12/23/2019 10:41:04 PM
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] End play in rear control arms
>>
>>
> ________________________________________________________________________________
>>
>> Forget machine shop, we can rent you the reamer and good instrucuu tru oo
>> and heat treated pins
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 6:16 PM Corey via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> From what I've seen so far, the bogie pin replacement project is tons
> of
>>> fun :lol: . I've seen the write up on this job, and understand it will
>>> require help from a machine shop. Any other tips or tricks out there?
>>> --
>>> Corey P
>>>
>>> Hilliard, OH
>>>
>>> 1974 Glacier 26'
>>>
>>> ION Wheels
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> --
>> Jim Kanomata
>> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
>> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
>> http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
>> 1-800-752-7502
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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jesse farr, soddy tn USA '74 Canyonlands 260
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| Re: End play in rear control arms [message #351474 is a reply to message #350881] |
Mon, 20 January 2020 19:08 |
uprooted
Messages: 72
Registered: December 2019
Location: Hilliard, OH
Karma: 0
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Member |
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I received the pin and bushing kit today from Applied and three of the pins were the old style, single grease hole in the middle of the pin. I called but unfortunately they only have two of the correct kind left (grease holes in line with bushings) and are going to get those out to me. It will be a while before they get more of the correct kind in stock. I am left with one pin that will be the old style single hole in middle of pin. Question for the group... I am on a bit of a time crunch and want to move ahead with this project. What would you do... live with one pin with single grease hole? Drill it out and make additional grease holes in line with the bushings?
Thanks
Corey P /
Hilliard, OH /
1974 Glacier 26' /
3.70 FD /
ION Wheels
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| Re: End play in rear control arms [message #351476 is a reply to message #350881] |
Mon, 20 January 2020 19:40 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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If I understand correctly the grease hole is in the dead space between inner and outer bushings. Much like air in a balloon pushed in all directions, so will the grease. I think this is the original GM type design. The problem was when neglected for years the old grease hardened. If you grease before each trip I suspect you will see old grease bleeding from inner and outers.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: End play in rear control arms [message #351500 is a reply to message #350881] |
Tue, 21 January 2020 14:30 |
uprooted
Messages: 72
Registered: December 2019
Location: Hilliard, OH
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Yes this is correct, in the dead space between the bushings. If we keep it greased is this a big deal?
Corey P /
Hilliard, OH /
1974 Glacier 26' /
3.70 FD /
ION Wheels
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| Re: End play in rear control arms [message #351522 is a reply to message #351474] |
Wed, 22 January 2020 15:52 |
Glenn
Messages: 92
Registered: February 2004
Location: Northwestern Ontario
Karma: 2
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Member |
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I would hope that you would get what you paid for. Send them back and expect a refund for you shipping costs.
HTH.........
Glenn
76 Glensbroke
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| Re: [GMCnet] End play in rear control arms [message #351700 is a reply to message #351476] |
Tue, 21 January 2020 06:49 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Corey,
IIRC, you're correct about the 1/8" movement specification, but I can find
no reference to it in the absurdly sketchy information and instructions in
the "Rear Suspension" section of manual X7525. That said, I "rebuilt" my
XBirchaven's rear suspension in 1998, using that manual, awfully built
parts, poor guidance, and my own ignorance. As a result, my rear
suspension, basically untouched aside from lubrication since then, is
undoubtedly in POOR condition after ~120,000 miles.
However, I have done a couple of things, not affecting the important
suspension arm bushings, that have enabled me to continue ignoring those
fundamentals: Most importantly, I installed a used set of "true tracks"
many years ago. Those simple frame-mounted tracks to retain control
arm-mounted cam follower bearings continue to constrain the ends of the
control arms to only vertical motion -- preventing the "end play"
illustrated in your video. Those are the only salvation for my poor rear
suspension condition. The second "upgrade" was installation of "Manny
Brakes", including, importantly, his variation of the "true tracks" (I was
able to retain the original frame-mounted tracks). Those "true tracks" are
the only element of the Manny Brakes to affect the alignment of the
suspension, but I would NOT have installed any braking improvement that
eliminated them.
So, I think you're in about the same position I was when I installed True
Tracks, but probably better if your control arm bushings are original.
True Tracks should enable you to set and maintain accurate toe-in for years
to come.
JMHO,
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, Troy-Bilt APU, etc., etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 8:41 PM John R. Lebetski via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> If I understand correctly the grease hole is in the dead space between
> inner and outer bushings. Much like air in a balloon pushed in all
> directions,
> so will the grease. I think this is the original GM type design. The
> problem was when neglected for years the old grease hardened. If you grease
> before each trip I suspect you will see old grease bleeding from inner
> and outers.
> --
> John Lebetski
> Woodstock, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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. I've seen the write up on this job, and understand it will require help from a machine shop. Any other tips or tricks out there?