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| Engines [message #350046] |
Tue, 12 November 2019 08:20  |
LNelson
Messages: 335
Registered: December 2008
Location: Springfield, MO
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I need to start thinking about my retirement (even though I am only 72) and getting my coach to a mechanical condition where I can motor on down the road with some confidence. I am a worrier by nature so I am always thinking about "what is going to happen" next. This is our second GMC. We drove our last one from Lower MO to Spokane, pretty much non-stop, back in 2000, with two families and a dog, heading to a womens NCAA Regional B-Ball game (beat Duke, and then Washington on our way to the Final Four). We left it running for fueling/Big Mac's/and dog walking duty. No problems. (Then I bought a GM bus.....another story).
My engine has about 112,000 miles on it, I assume the same for the tranny. Right now, except for my soon-to-be replaced tires, I would drive this coach to California or Florida. My oil analysis is tracking a strong engine. But....I am pricing my options. In my earlier years, I would pull the heads, have them done, maybe drop the pistons and re-ring/hone the cylinders, etc. A gasket set + machine shop + some of my labor = a stronger engine. I have no interest in re-inventing the wheel. I have priced the S and J engine, on the other hand. I think I have a shop that would do the swap (they jack the front up and drop the engine out the bottom. I don't think I have it in me to do that, and I don't WANT to do it unless I have to (replace with MY labor). I have even looked at selling the coach and trying something else (the CAsita trailers look very interesting to me).....
I am considering ordering the engine, and ordering a tranny, and put them in my hangar for future transplant. Don't know what the shelf life is on a tranny. Is Manny still building them?
Love our GMC. Wife loves it, too. Nothing wrong as I write this. Just dreaming......
Larry
Larry Nelson Springfield, MO
Ex GMC'er, then GM Busnut
now '77 Eleganza ARS WB0JOT
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engines [message #350049 is a reply to message #350046] |
Tue, 12 November 2019 09:25  |
Olly Schmidt
Messages: 1265
Registered: February 2014
Location: Germany and Scottsville, ...
Karma: 8
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Senior Member |
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On 12.11.19 15:20, Larry Nelson via Gmclist wrote:
> I am considering ordering the engine, and ordering a tranny, and put
> them in my hangar for future transplant. Don't know what the shelf
> life is on a tranny. Is Manny still building them?
>
> Love our GMC. Wife loves it, too. Nothing wrong as I write this. Just
> dreaming......
I am of the mantra:
Don't fix what's not broken.
Old stuff breaks. New stuff breaks. Use it, if things fail, get them
fixed and in the meantime enjoy the beautiful area you are stranded in.
At least that's the way I tick.
--
Best regards
Peer Oliver Schmidt
PGP KeyID: 0x4196BF22
'76a 26' Eleganza II - Virginia, US
'73 23' Sequoia - Schleswig-Holstein, Germany
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Best regards
Olly Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x18a9 3a1f 4196 bf22
'76a Eleganza II, VA
'73 Sequoia, SH, Germany
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engines [message #350050 is a reply to message #350049] |
Tue, 12 November 2019 09:48 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Larry, both engines and transmissions can go "sour" in long term storage.
Steps can be taken to improve long term storage, and often involve some
stinky stuff like cosmoline. And lots and lots of Olive Drab or Camo
colored sticky fabric tape. Sticks like nothing else I have ever
encountered. If you have high humidity and/or extreme changes in
temperature, storage life will be dramatically reduced.
I am very familiar with cosmoline. Once while in the Military, our
squad went to Fort Lewis/Camp Murray/Mchord field and de-mothballed a bunch
of M-211 deuce an a half that were shipped back from the Korean Conflict. I
stunk like that stuff long after the repeated showers were but a memory.
Great trucks. Mfg date, 1953, 0 miles on the clocks. The tarps always did
smell like the stuff, years later.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Tue, Nov 12, 2019, 7:26 AM Peer Oliver Schmidt via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> On 12.11.19 15:20, Larry Nelson via Gmclist wrote:
>> I am considering ordering the engine, and ordering a tranny, and put
>> them in my hangar for future transplant. Don't know what the shelf
>> life is on a tranny. Is Manny still building them?
>>
>> Love our GMC. Wife loves it, too. Nothing wrong as I write this. Just
>> dreaming......
>
> I am of the mantra:
>
> Don't fix what's not broken.
>
> Old stuff breaks. New stuff breaks. Use it, if things fail, get them
> fixed and in the meantime enjoy the beautiful area you are stranded in.
>
> At least that's the way I tick.
>
> --
> Best regards
>
> Peer Oliver Schmidt
> PGP KeyID: 0x4196BF22
> '76a 26' Eleganza II - Virginia, US
> '73 23' Sequoia - Schleswig-Holstein, Germany
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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| Re: Engines [message #350055 is a reply to message #350046] |
Tue, 12 November 2019 12:49 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Larry,
Last year I torn down a 455 that had failed a piston about 80k after a rebuild. From what I saw, if it has a non-plastic timing chain, that is probably a 150~200K engine. I would not be surprised if my refresh does that. I wanted it to, so I did replace some things that were still in the service limit.
I have been an engine guy for all of my life and when I open one up, the first thing I do is a full inspection and measurement. This was really a good engine. If I could have found out who made the surviving pistons, I could have replaced that one and sent it out again. The valves were good, but I had the guides re-sleeved. I replaced the main bearings only because it would never be easier. The cam followers (lifters) are made with a huge radius face, but these would not rock on my surface plate. So I replaced them, the springs (because it was easy) and put in the cam that Dick Paterson recommended. The timing chain has worn more than it should because the oiler for it had plugged up.
Personally if the oil analysis looks good, leave it alone. Just be sure to give it the care it deserves.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engines [message #350057 is a reply to message #350055] |
Tue, 12 November 2019 14:42 |
Rich Kinas
Messages: 113
Registered: July 2019
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I have never had an engine oil analysis performed to determine engine
condition. Is this common and who does it? I've built 5.0's, 283's, 350's
but never actually thought about checking before I dove straight in..
Rich
On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 1:50 PM Matt Colie via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Larry,
>
> Last year I torn down a 455 that had failed a piston about 80k after a
> rebuild. From what I saw, if it has a non-plastic timing chain, that is
> probably a 150~200K engine. I would not be surprised if my refresh does
> that. I wanted it to, so I did replace some things that were still in the
> service limit.
>
> I have been an engine guy for all of my life and when I open one up, the
> first thing I do is a full inspection and measurement. This was really a
> good engine. If I could have found out who made the surviving pistons, I
> could have replaced that one and sent it out again. The valves were good,
> but I had the guides re-sleeved. I replaced the main bearings only
> because it would never be easier. The cam followers (lifters) are made
> with a
> huge radius face, but these would not rock on my surface plate. So I
> replaced them, the springs (because it was easy) and put in the cam that
> Dick
> Paterson recommended. The timing chain has worn more than it should
> because the oiler for it had plugged up.
>
> Personally if the oil analysis looks good, leave it alone. Just be sure
> to give it the care it deserves.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Rich Kinas
1976 Elaganza II
Orlando, FL
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engines [message #350059 is a reply to message #350057] |
Tue, 12 November 2019 16:02 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Rich Kinas wrote on Tue, 12 November 2019 15:42I have never had an engine oil analysis performed to determine engine
condition. Is this common and who does it? I've built 5.0's, 283's, 350's but never actually thought about checking before I dove straight in..
Rich
Rich,
I am a ship's engineer by trade, and when engines are capitol equipment, they tend to get better care. That might be because a bearing shell is 500$ and a power piston set is 5000$. The only reason to spend the money on an engine that you are about to tear down would be to qualify the results. But you should be able to do most of what really matters with a visual inspection at that point.
I do not bother with most of my passcar engines as they are disposable. But as the coach would (and nearly did) cost a lot to replace, I have worked with several testing suppliers. I do not know how many GMCers do this, but I do know that it is more than a few.
Most recently with <https://www.blackstone-labs.com>. They track individual engines and will also supply fleet data for the GMC motorhomes. If you contact them and they will send you test kits. The analysis cost 28$us now. I have used them most of the time of ownership. They identified an internal coolant leak and I was then aware of and was able to prevent it from causing more damage.
It is best to start when you think an engine is in good condition and keep track of what changes happen. Blackstone regularly provides a little synopsis of the result. While they have good experience, I will advise you to think about them on your own as you may be aware of something that they are not.
With this rebuild, I am going to be restarting a regular sampling after the next oil service. I makes no sense to do lube oil analysis when first breaking in new components.
I hope that this is a helpful answer but if I raised more questions, I will do my best to clear them up.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engines [message #350067 is a reply to message #350059] |
Tue, 12 November 2019 20:32 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Majority of fleets use the oil analysis to keep track of the major engine
condition.
I use it to see what is happening.
Lot of it is a general condition and it does not show exact.
On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 2:03 PM Matt Colie via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Rich Kinas wrote on Tue, 12 November 2019 15:42
>> I have never had an engine oil analysis performed to determine engine
>> condition. Is this common and who does it? I've built 5.0's, 283's,
> 350's but never actually thought about checking before I dove straight in..
>>
>> Rich
>
> Rich,
>
> I am a ship's engineer by trade, and when engines are capitol equipment,
> they tend to get better care. That might be because a bearing shell is 500$
> and a power piston set is 5000$. The only reason to spend the money on an
> engine that you are about to tear down would be to qualify the results.
> But you should be able to do most of what really matters with a visual
> inspection at that point.
>
> I do not bother with most of my passcar engines as they are disposable.
> But as the coach would (and nearly did) cost a lot to replace, I have worked
> with several testing suppliers. I do not know how many GMCers do this,
> but I do know that it is more than a few.
>
> Most recently with . They track
> individual engines and will also supply fleet data for the GMC motorhomes.
> If you
> contact them and they will send you test kits. The analysis cost 28$us
> now. I have used them most of the time of ownership. They identified an
> internal coolant leak and I was then aware of and was able to prevent it
> from causing more damage.
>
> It is best to start when you think an engine is in good condition and keep
> track of what changes happen. Blackstone regularly provides a little
> synopsis of the result. While they have good experience, I will advise
> you to think about them on your own as you may be aware of something that
> they
> are not.
>
> With this rebuild, I am going to be restarting a regular sampling after
> the next oil service. I makes no sense to do lube oil analysis when first
> breaking in new components.
>
> I hope that this is a helpful answer but if I raised more questions, I
> will do my best to clear them up.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: Engines [message #350076 is a reply to message #350046] |
Wed, 13 November 2019 08:12 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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I don't know how good your hearing is, but for me a lot about engine condition can be determined just by listening. (I'm a retired sound man) I would not go the route of doing the top half as you suggest and nothing on bottom. My engine fail early into ownership was rod bearing due to sludge ingestion from PO neglect. We got a good quart of sludge out of bottom of pan on disassembly. My oil changes did not remove it. But if you know your history and it runs good no noises, not down in power, no excess blowby--- I'd leave it.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Engines [message #350081 is a reply to message #350046] |
Wed, 13 November 2019 10:01 |
Larry
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I'm with John and others on this. Change the oil and filter. Pour in your choice of oil and run it 3K miles. When you change the oil again, take a sample and send to Blackstone Labs. If the analysis is normal, just drive it. JWID
Larry 
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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