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| Water Weld [message #349638] |
Fri, 25 October 2019 02:56  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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I apologize if this ends up as a duplicate posting. I have been fighting a DNS problem with Comcast for the last hour and finally had to sign on to my neighbor's WiFi and type it all over again.
I have two tanks that we dropped here and now I will be taking them to Pro-strip to remove all of the outside rust. They put them in a tank large enough for an entire car and soak them to remove the rust chemically. The insides are perfect but wire brushing the bottom outside we opened up some small holes rusted from the outside in.
So now the question is how to patch the holes:
1. I found a product called Water Weld made by JB Weld. It can be applied to wet surfaces and even below the water line in water marine applications. It also can be used on wet / leaking gas tanks. I called them and they say it is definitely applicable for sealing tanks. Since these tanks will come back perfectly clean outside and in, I think this would work very well and could be sanded, ground off fairly flat. After that I intend to paint them with POR-15 and top coat with white or silver rustoleum.
I am looking for opinions from anyone that has used the Water Weld product is product.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
[Updated on: Fri, 25 October 2019 02:58] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Water Weld [message #349643 is a reply to message #349640] |
Fri, 25 October 2019 09:59  |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
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As a belt and suspenders approach, do both. Apply the JB product on the outside and then line the inside with the tank sealer. That should hold things together.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water Weld [message #349646 is a reply to message #349643] |
Fri, 25 October 2019 10:12 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
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Get an Eastwood products catalog. They have POR -15. It is a coating for
the inside of gas tanks. Made just for that purpose. When tanks have been
boiled and de scaled as yours have, it is the cat's meow. Old car hobbyists
swear by the stuff. What I know.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 8:00 AM Carl Stouffer via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> As a belt and suspenders approach, do both. Apply the JB product on the
> outside and then line the inside with the tank sealer. That should hold
> things together.
>
> --
> Carl Stouffer
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive,
> Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
> Eagles,
> Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: Water Weld [message #349654 is a reply to message #349640] |
Fri, 25 October 2019 15:36 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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Yes I plan to paint them with POR-15 after I have sealed everything up. I have used it before on several thing ans still have some in my basement stored upside down. I still will have to get some more. It is available locally here.
Does anybody know specifically about Water Weld?
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water Weld [message #349659 is a reply to message #349656] |
Fri, 25 October 2019 17:33 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
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They make and market a whole host of different products. Yes, the tank
sealer is what is needed here. A number of my hot rod and restoration
buddies use it. IF THE TANK IS PREPPED CORRECTLY, you can use it and forget
about it.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 3:24 PM Richard via Gmclist
wrote:
> Ken, I think Jim's referring to POR-15's Fuel Tank Sealer, not the
> standard POR-15 paint.
> https://www.amazon.com/POR-15-49208-Gray-Sealer-Fluid_Ounces/dp/B00B3I2NWG/
>
> Richard
> --
> '77 Birchaven TZE...777
> '76 Palm Beach with 18,477 miles on it.
>
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| Re: Water Weld [message #349661 is a reply to message #349638] |
Fri, 25 October 2019 17:49 |
MikeB
Messages: 133
Registered: December 2018
Location: South Bama
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Ken
I've used water weld on my sprayer tank which I believe is polypropylene. Where the tank bolts down the hole for the bolts and washers wallowed out and cracked. It worked pretty good but the difficulty was getting a rough enough surface for the putty to actually adhere good. However as Jim H was mentioning the POR-15 makes a great inside tank sealer for rust AND holes. I've used in several antique tractor gas tanks. Works exceptionally well especially if the tank is already etched/cleaned.
M Beam
75’ Avion
TBI EBL , 3.70 LSD and other stuff
Zuki Sidekick,
Dozier Al
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water Weld [message #349680 is a reply to message #349661] |
Sat, 26 October 2019 12:34 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
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My experience with that it was not good as it started flaking.
I had a fellow GMC guys that claim they knew how to do it right.
Well I never got money back.
On Fri, Oct 25, 2019 at 3:50 PM mtb8114--- via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Ken
> I've used water weld on my sprayer tank which I believe is polypropylene.
> Where the tank bolts down the hole for the bolts and washers wallowed out
> and cracked. It worked pretty good but the difficulty was getting a rough
> enough surface for the putty to actually adhere good. However as Jim H was
> mentioning the POR-15 makes a great inside tank sealer for rust AND holes.
> I've used in several antique tractor gas tanks. Works exceptionally well
> especially if the tank is already etched/cleaned.
> --
> M Beam
> 75’ Avion
> TBI EBL , 3.70 LSD and other stuff
> Zuki Sidekick,
> Dozier Al
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water Weld [message #349681 is a reply to message #349680] |
Sat, 26 October 2019 14:51 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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jimk wrote on Sat, 26 October 2019 12:34My experience with that it was not good as it started flaking.
I had a fellow GMC guys that claim they knew how to do it right.
Well I never got money back.
I have had feedback off net from two guys that both said they had problems with the stuff flaking. Jim now is #3. One used POR-15 and the other used Red-Kote. Since the inside is not rusted, I am thinking about not coating the inside. A local radiator shop also told me after looking at it to leave the inside alone and repair the holes from the outside only. He wanted to solder the holes from the outside only. That is why I keep going back to soaking them to de-rust the entire tank and using Water Weld for JB Weld.
I am confused at this point.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water Weld [message #349683 is a reply to message #349681] |
Sat, 26 October 2019 15:12 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Ken,
From what I see, the coating is rigid ,so when coated in our thin tank,
they will not flex rough.
We sent two tanks to East coast, ended up eating freight and tellig
customer to dump the tanks.
On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 12:52 PM Ken Burton via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> jimk wrote on Sat, 26 October 2019 12:34
>> My experience with that it was not good as it started flaking.
>> I had a fellow GMC guys that claim they knew how to do it right.
>> Well I never got money back.
>
> I have had feedback off net from two guys that both said they had problems
> with the stuff flaking. Jim now is #3. One used POR-15 and the other used
> Red-Kote. Since the inside is not rusted, I am thinking about not coating
> the inside. A local radiator shop also told me after looking at it to
> leave the inside alone and repair the holes from the outside only. He
> wanted to solder the holes from the outside only. That is why I keep
> going
> back to soaking them to de-rust the entire tank and using Water Weld for
> JB Weld.
>
> I am confused at this point.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water Weld [message #349686 is a reply to message #349683] |
Sat, 26 October 2019 15:49 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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POR-15 Video instructions specifically warn about leaving too much coating
in the tank for the reasons you mentioned. They recommend turning the tanks
in a position where excess coating can drain out. But, if the tanks have
many pinholes, I personally would not trust them. They are cheesy enough
without the rust.
But, I have a very distinct dislike for welding heat anywhere near an
old gas tank. I absolutely will not weld one. No exceptions. My good friend
and I were taking a knee dent out of a Honda Motorcycle gas tank. We
flushed the tank repeatedly with a caustic solution, and dried it in the
sun. No discernible odor of gasoline remained, and I then purged the tank
with my tig welding mix. Totally inert gas, right?
We ground off the paint around the dent, and used his pin welder with
the intentions of welding a whole row of pins to pull out the crease in the
dent. On the second pin, the tank exploded, turned inside out, and left
both of us with ringing ears, but otherwise unscathed. Never again. I've
had my warning. You do as you wish. But, oil can bottoms on big, flat gas
tanks are a problem looking for a solution. I don't have a perfect one.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Sat, Oct 26, 2019, 1:12 PM Jim Kanomata via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Ken,
> From what I see, the coating is rigid ,so when coated in our thin tank,
> they will not flex rough.
> We sent two tanks to East coast, ended up eating freight and tellig
> customer to dump the tanks.
>
> On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 12:52 PM Ken Burton via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> jimk wrote on Sat, 26 October 2019 12:34
>>> My experience with that it was not good as it started flaking.
>>> I had a fellow GMC guys that claim they knew how to do it right.
>>> Well I never got money back.
>>
>> I have had feedback off net from two guys that both said they had
> problems
>> with the stuff flaking. Jim now is #3. One used POR-15 and the other
> used
>> Red-Kote. Since the inside is not rusted, I am thinking about not
> coating
>> the inside. A local radiator shop also told me after looking at it to
>> leave the inside alone and repair the holes from the outside only. He
>> wanted to solder the holes from the outside only. That is why I keep
>> going
>> back to soaking them to de-rust the entire tank and using Water Weld for
>> JB Weld.
>>
>> I am confused at this point.
>> --
>> Ken Burton - N9KB
>> 76 Palm Beach
>> Hebron, Indiana
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water Weld [message #349696 is a reply to message #349686] |
Sat, 26 October 2019 19:34 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I personally would not trust any kind of epoxy type of fuel cell repair on
a steel gas tank. Especially a labyrinth baffled tank. Are there not plenty
of donors with decent tanks? I’ve had 2 77s and I’m four for four.
Sully
Bellevue wa.
On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 1:47 PM James Hupy via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> POR-15 Video instructions specifically warn about leaving too much coating
> in the tank for the reasons you mentioned. They recommend turning the tanks
> in a position where excess coating can drain out. But, if the tanks have
> many pinholes, I personally would not trust them. They are cheesy enough
> without the rust.
> But, I have a very distinct dislike for welding heat anywhere near an
> old gas tank. I absolutely will not weld one. No exceptions. My good friend
> and I were taking a knee dent out of a Honda Motorcycle gas tank. We
> flushed the tank repeatedly with a caustic solution, and dried it in the
> sun. No discernible odor of gasoline remained, and I then purged the tank
> with my tig welding mix. Totally inert gas, right?
> We ground off the paint around the dent, and used his pin welder with
> the intentions of welding a whole row of pins to pull out the crease in the
> dent. On the second pin, the tank exploded, turned inside out, and left
> both of us with ringing ears, but otherwise unscathed. Never again. I've
> had my warning. You do as you wish. But, oil can bottoms on big, flat gas
> tanks are a problem looking for a solution. I don't have a perfect one.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Sat, Oct 26, 2019, 1:12 PM Jim Kanomata via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Ken,
>> From what I see, the coating is rigid ,so when coated in our thin tank,
>> they will not flex rough.
>> We sent two tanks to East coast, ended up eating freight and tellig
>> customer to dump the tanks.
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 12:52 PM Ken Burton via Gmclist > gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> jimk wrote on Sat, 26 October 2019 12:34
>>>> My experience with that it was not good as it started flaking.
>>>> I had a fellow GMC guys that claim they knew how to do it right.
>>>> Well I never got money back.
>>>
>>> I have had feedback off net from two guys that both said they had
>> problems
>>> with the stuff flaking. Jim now is #3. One used POR-15 and the other
>> used
>>> Red-Kote. Since the inside is not rusted, I am thinking about not
>> coating
>>> the inside. A local radiator shop also told me after looking at it to
>>> leave the inside alone and repair the holes from the outside only. He
>>> wanted to solder the holes from the outside only. That is why I
> keep
>>> going
>>> back to soaking them to de-rust the entire tank and using Water Weld
> for
>>> JB Weld.
>>>
>>> I am confused at this point.
>>> --
>>> Ken Burton - N9KB
>>> 76 Palm Beach
>>> Hebron, Indiana
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jim Kanomata
>> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
>> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
>> http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
>> 1-800-752-7502
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water Weld [message #349716 is a reply to message #349681] |
Sun, 27 October 2019 15:17 |
Ernest Dankert
Messages: 133
Registered: May 2007
Location: Ogden, New York
Karma: 1
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You got good advice on soldering. Scrub (steel wool) and use an industrial soldering iron. I have one I can loan you
for the shipping. I had a '79 Chevy Custom Pick up with a holy tank. I tried torch soldering, torch brazing and gave up.
If the holes are near stretched metal, corners or sides the cooling metal will crack the repair. A small piece of tinned
copper will allow a good repair. This is what I have:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/CRL-250-Watt-Heavy-Duty-Soldering-Iron-P250T/193127738744?hash=item2cf74f6d78:g:XlsAAOSwzwxdjmdM
I use a shop vac to blow air through the tank if flame soldering. In the fill and out the gas gauge port. My '71 Chevy
Cheyenne with the tank behind the drivers seat had pretty bad cab dropsy from rust. Coming home from night class I took a
rail crossing too fast and the tank bounced off the pointy frame bolts. Dropped about 3 gallons of gas in the cab.
What a weekend. Sawed the frame bolts off and flame soldered the tank.
1977 Eleganza II
Ogden NY
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water Weld [message #349751 is a reply to message #349716] |
Tue, 29 October 2019 09:38 |
GMC.LES
Messages: 505
Registered: April 2014
Karma: -2
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Senior Member |
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I’ve repaired numerous gas tanks over the years with solder. The trick is to displace all Compressible gases with water. Gases/air can expand, water will not. This is why pressure testing of vessels should be done with a liquid. If there is a rupture, the escaping contents only make a little boom :)
How I’ve always done it is to fill the fuel tank with water, leaving as small a space a possible internally to allow only the repair surface to be above the waterline. I then use a combination of a heat gun and a very large soldering iron to get the job done. I have occasionally used a propane torch for thicker materials, but having flame near a fuel tank always adds enormous risk.
I must mention 2 more details that I do.
First is a thorough cleaning of the tank interior BEFORE attempting a repair. The tank gets washed with strong detergents and HOT water, then an acid wash, then another detergent wash. If it smells of gas when left in the sun, I repeat the process. Being impatient with this part of the process leads to bigger accidents.
Second, I use a 10” thick solid concrete wall as a barrier between me and the tank. Most of the tank repairs I’ve done are on corners and edges. This allows me to lean the tank up against the 4’ concrete wall. I stand on the other side when doing the repair. The hope is that any tank rupture would be deflected away from me, reducing potential injury.
Repairing with solder has been the most durable method for me. I’ve never seen a solder repair leak, even 30+ years later. The same tanks have rusted through right beside the solder repair.
Repairing fuel tanks is a risk that should not be taken lightly.
Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'
> On Oct 27, 2019, at 4:17 PM, Ernest Dankert via Gmclist wrote:
>
> You got good advice on soldering. Scrub (steel wool) and use an industrial soldering iron. I have one I can loan you
> for the shipping. I had a '79 Chevy Custom Pick up with a holy tank. I tried torch soldering, torch brazing and gave up.
> If the holes are near stretched metal, corners or sides the cooling metal will crack the repair. A small piece of tinned
> copper will allow a good repair. This is what I have:
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/CRL-250-Watt-Heavy-Duty-Soldering-Iron-P250T/193127738744?hash=item2cf74f6d78:g:XlsAAOSwzwxdjmdM
>
> I use a shop vac to blow air through the tank if flame soldering. In the fill and out the gas gauge port. My '71 Chevy
> Cheyenne with the tank behind the drivers seat had pretty bad cab dropsy from rust. Coming home from night class I took a
> rail crossing too fast and the tank bounced off the pointy frame bolts. Dropped about 3 gallons of gas in the cab.
> What a weekend. Sawed the frame bolts off and flame soldered the tank.
> --
> 1977 Eleganza II
> Ogden NY
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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