| Dead coach [message #349326] |
Wed, 16 October 2019 12:41  |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
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Drove 220 miles. Coach was running just fine. Gas stop about 50 miles before stop. Everything running OK. Stopped for the night. Next morning no start other than a brief cough and die. Since then nothing. I had a somewhat complicated fuel system. It has been reconfigured to KISS. In tank pumps to filter to check valve to carb. Got fuel to carb as accel pump does the squirt thing. Got spark at distributor. Went so far as to have a carb shipped in. This carb was running a GMC just fine a week ago before it was replaced by EFI. Patterson engine and distributor with 20k on them.
I know this has got to be something very simple. I just don't know what it could be.
Oh great collective brain trust, got any ideas.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: Dead coach [message #349327 is a reply to message #349326] |
Wed, 16 October 2019 12:43  |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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midlf wrote on Wed, 16 October 2019 12:41Drove 220 miles. Coach was running just fine. Gas stop about 50 miles before stop. Everything running OK. Stopped for the night. Next morning no start other than a brief cough and die. Since then nothing. I had a somewhat complicated fuel system. It has been reconfigured to KISS. In tank pumps to filter to check valve to carb. Got fuel to carb as accel pump does the squirt thing. Got spark at distributor. Went so far as to have a carb shipped in. This carb was running a GMC just fine a week ago before it was replaced by EFI. Patterson engine and distributor with 20k on them.
I know this has got to be something very simple. I just don't know what it could be.
Oh great collective brain trust, got any ideas.
BTW we're at Logansport IN.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dead coach [message #349330 is a reply to message #349328] |
Wed, 16 October 2019 13:18 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Nelson wrote on Wed, 16 October 2019 12:59Timing chain ?
I never say never. Could be but I doubt a Patterson engine would slip a tooth.
I have a timing light along. Can that be used on a cranking engine to check the timing?
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: Dead coach [message #349332 is a reply to message #349331] |
Wed, 16 October 2019 13:21 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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Make sure there is spark at end of plug wires...
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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| Re: Dead coach [message #349334 is a reply to message #349331] |
Wed, 16 October 2019 13:30 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
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Bullitthead wrote on Wed, 16 October 2019 13:19Distributor rotor or contact gave up?
I pulled the cap to see if the dizzy went round and round. It did. I'll check again looking for those items.
Fortunately we are at a vey nice campground. Parts stores and other shopping easily available. Thank heavens for the toad.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: Dead coach [message #349335 is a reply to message #349326] |
Wed, 16 October 2019 13:33 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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midlf wrote on Wed, 16 October 2019 13:41Drove 220 miles. Coach was running just fine. Gas stop about 50 miles before stop. Everything running OK. Stopped for the night. Next morning no start other than a brief cough and die. Since then nothing. I had a somewhat complicated fuel system. It has been reconfigured to KISS. In tank pumps to filter to check valve to carb. Got fuel to carb as accel pump does the squirt thing. Got spark at distributor. Went so far as to have a carb shipped in. This carb was running a GMC just fine a week ago before it was replaced by EFI. Patterson engine and distributor with 20k on them.
I know this has got to be something very simple. I just don't know what it could be.
Oh great collective brain trust, got any ideas.
Steve,
Yes, use the timing light.
You know it has fuel, so I vote for an ignition issue. Has it been converted to HEI? If that is the case, suspect the ignition. So, hook up the timing light and if it is at all irregular, then suspect something in the HEI.
I kind of hate to tell you this, but checking spark by pulling a wire is enough to kill an HEI. If it is dead, the timing light won't flash.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Dead coach [message #349336 is a reply to message #349335] |
Wed, 16 October 2019 13:40 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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[quote title=Matt Colie wrote on Wed, 16 October 2019 13:33]midlf wrote on Wed, 16 October 2019 13:41
Steve,
Yes, use the timing light.
You know it has fuel, so I vote for an ignition issue. Has it been converted to HEI? If that is the case, suspect the ignition. So, hook up the timing light and if it is at all irregular, then suspect something in the HEI.
I kind of hate to tell you this, but checking spark by pulling a wire is enough to kill an HEI. If it is dead, the timing light won't flash.
Matt
Pertronics. I did not open circuit the HV but had a screwdriver to ground acting as a spark gap. Timing light will tell if it's toast.
I carry a complete spare distributor.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dead coach [message #349338 is a reply to message #349336] |
Wed, 16 October 2019 13:52 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
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Filled with diesel by mistake?
Sully
Bellevue wa
On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 11:49 AM Steve Southworth via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> [quote title=Matt Colie wrote on Wed, 16 October 2019 13:33]midlf wrote on
> Wed, 16 October 2019 13:41
>> Steve,
>>
>> Yes, use the timing light.
>> You know it has fuel, so I vote for an ignition issue. Has it been
> converted to HEI? If that is the case, suspect the ignition. So, hook up
> the
>> timing light and if it is at all irregular, then suspect something in
> the HEI.
>>
>> I kind of hate to tell you this, but checking spark by pulling a wire is
> enough to kill an HEI. If it is dead, the timing light won't flash.
>>
>> Matt
>
>
> Pertronics. I did not open circuit the HV but had a screwdriver to ground
> acting as a spark gap. Timing light will tell if it's toast.
>
> I carry a complete spare distributor.
> --
> Steve Southworth
> 1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
> 1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
> Palmyra WI
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: Dead coach [message #349339 is a reply to message #349326] |
Wed, 16 October 2019 14:09 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Anybody reading this. an inductive Timing light is a very inexpensive tool that can be very handy to quickly see if you are dealing with a spark or fuel issue. simplest way I have found to make sure you have spark for sure, without tearing apart things.
So do as Matt and others suggested, hook up the timing light, and zip tie the trigger and crank the engine. That will very easily and quickly tell you if you have spark. a litte twisting and con-torsion and you can double check it is sparking near TDC.
another easy thing to try, is to use a mustard squeeze bottle, to fill up the carb.
I would suspect a wire on the distributor or such causing an issue. if you are pertronixs, there are a few ways to wire that up on the old points system where you have to deal with resistor and the extra wire off starter, that could be causing some issue. you need to make sure you know what voltage the distributor is getting at ignition "on" as well as what it sees while cranking.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dead coach [message #349340 is a reply to message #349338] |
Wed, 16 October 2019 14:17 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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sgltrac wrote on Wed, 16 October 2019 13:52Filled with diesel by mistake?
Sully
Bellevue wa
I would say "how in the hell could someone do that". That is until my FIL did that on a trip from Stugis. He got pumped out and filled up. We made him ride tail end of the pack. His bike just stunk of diesel. Took about two tankfuls before it got to be acceptable, but still noticeable.
Nope - no diesel. Station I filled up at didn't have diesel. When I was working on the fuel system it only smelled like gas.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: Dead coach [message #349342 is a reply to message #349339] |
Wed, 16 October 2019 14:21 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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lqqkatjon wrote on Wed, 16 October 2019 14:09Anybody reading this. an inductive Timing light is a very inexpensive tool that can be very handy to quickly see if you are dealing with a spark or fuel issue. simplest way I have found to make sure you have spark for sure, without tearing apart things.
So do as Matt and others suggested, hook up the timing light, and zip tie the trigger and crank the engine. That will very easily and quickly tell you if you have spark. a litte twisting and con-torsion and you can double check it is sparking near TDC.
another easy thing to try, is to use a mustard squeeze bottle, to fill up the carb.
I would suspect a wire on the distributor or such causing an issue. if you are pertronixs, there are a few ways to wire that up on the old points system where you have to deal with resistor and the extra wire off starter, that could be causing some issue. you need to make sure you know what voltage the distributor is getting at ignition "on" as well as what it sees while cranking.
Pertronix is wired like HEI. Direct from ignition switch. Resistor wire is no longer used.
Spouse can do the cranking while I attempt to see the marks.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dead coach [message #349343 is a reply to message #349340] |
Wed, 16 October 2019 14:22 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
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Well that is good news for sure. I know unlikely but if you had spark and
fuel and no fire.........
Sully
On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 12:18 PM Steve Southworth via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> sgltrac wrote on Wed, 16 October 2019 13:52
>> Filled with diesel by mistake?
>>
>> Sully
>> Bellevue wa
>
> I would say "how in the hell could someone do that". That is until my FIL
> did that on a trip from Stugis. He got pumped out and filled up. We made
> him ride tail end of the pack. His bike just stunk of diesel. Took about
> two tankfuls before it got to be acceptable, but still noticeable.
>
> Nope - no diesel. Station I filled up at didn't have diesel. When I was
> working on the fuel system it only smelled like gas.
> --
> Steve Southworth
> 1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
> 1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
> Palmyra WI
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dead coach [message #349344 is a reply to message #349333] |
Wed, 16 October 2019 14:31 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Emery Stora wrote on Wed, 16 October 2019 13:24What do you mean "spark at distributor"? Do you have spark at the end of the wire going to the spark plug?
Does your choke work?
Emery Stora
Pulled wire from coil off at distributor and did the check there.
Yes - it sets correctly and starts to come off (electric) with the key on.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dead coach [message #349345 is a reply to message #349341] |
Wed, 16 October 2019 15:10 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Dave Stragand wrote on Wed, 16 October 2019 14:13Just because you saw fluid spray in at the carb doesn't mean it's fuel. Can you try some starter fluid Instead?
Sometimes water or separated alcohol accumulates at the bottom of the tank and gets sucked up on cranking.
During the simplification of the fuel system there was some fuel in a catch pan. It evaporated and left no trace of any liquid. Coach has been run a fair amount since August so I don't think it was alcohol separation. Carb smells very strongly of gas just like expected.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: Dead coach [message #349346 is a reply to message #349326] |
Wed, 16 October 2019 15:32 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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You describe a lack of spark. Figure the liquid coming down the carb throat is in fact gasoline then a lack of spark to light it is highly indicated. Check with the timing light and report back. Or just hazard ten bucks and buy a new ignition module. Worst case it's a spare to have on hand. Advance or any of them ought to have a light for lend.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Dead coach [message #349350 is a reply to message #349326] |
Wed, 16 October 2019 16:23 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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One thing not mentioned. I have a 455 but the carb is off a 403.
From what I can tell it should not make a difference. At least for starting. Air moves past a Venturi and sucks out enough gas to make the proper mixture. ?????
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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