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| Non-GMC: Yamaha BWS (aka Zuma) 50 [message #346599] |
Sun, 18 August 2019 18:10  |
Deb
Messages: 349
Registered: October 2016
Location: Logan Lake, BC
Karma: 2
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Just to remind myself that life isn't ALL GMC, I decided it was time to get the wee scoot out of winter (HA!) storage and on the road. Been working on so many hiccups in the coach that I haven't had time to get her out from under her cover).
Battery was pulled and inside for winter, topped up and in good shape; gas was treated so it is also fine. Starter cranks like a charm, but she won't turn over. Tried the kick-starter and no luck there either. So... time to check the plugs for spark and see if there's fuel getting to her. After 8 attempts and giving her lots of throttle (2-stroke 2009) she wouldn't start but I would have expected to smell some gas by that point (would think she would be flooding by then) however no gas smell. I think it's time to pull off the tupperware and look at the carb and the fuel lines. Wa-a-h! 
Like Roseanne Roseanna Danna used to say "If it's not one thing, it's another."
Deb McWade
Logan Lake, BC, CAN
GMC Alumnus
It's Bigger on the Inside!
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| Re: Non-GMC: Yamaha BWS (aka Zuma) 50 [message #346610 is a reply to message #346599] |
Mon, 19 August 2019 09:15  |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
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Deb wrote on Sun, 18 August 2019 19:10Just to remind myself that life isn't ALL GMC, I decided it was time to get the wee scoot out of winter (HA!) storage and on the road. Been working on so many hiccups in the coach that I haven't had time to get her out from under her cover).
Battery was pulled and inside for winter, topped up and in good shape; gas was treated so it is also fine. Starter cranks like a charm, but she won't turn over. Tried the kick-starter and no luck there either. So... time to check the plugs for spark and see if there's fuel getting to her. After 8 attempts and giving her lots of throttle (2-stroke 2009) she wouldn't start but I would have expected to smell some gas by that point (would think she would be flooding by then) however no gas smell. I think it's time to pull off the tupperware and look at the carb and the fuel lines. Wa-a-h!
Like Roseanne Roseanna Danna used to say "If it's not one thing, it's another."
Deb,
I'm going to jump in here because I have way too much experience with miniature two-stroke engines.
If you did not shut the fuel off and run it dry before you put her up for the winter, then the carburetor is plugged up in two probably places. Both the needle and seat that regulate the fuel level in the carburetor and/or the main fuel jet will be fouled.
First, look at the carburetor bowl and see if there is a plug that can be unscrewed or a sideways screw that is there to be a drain. If you find either, see if you can make it drain from the tank. If yes, then you know the needle and seat have a chance. If you run some new fuel though it, it may (NOTE: he wrote MAY) be able to soften what has probably dried in the main jet. It just might start then and run (badly), but if you can get new fuel though it, it might just run long enough to clear itself out. Then, you don't have to get the carburetor off to clean it.
Good Luck
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC: Yamaha BWS (aka Zuma) 50 [message #346613 is a reply to message #346610] |
Mon, 19 August 2019 10:39 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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And it is also POSSIBLE that an appropriately sized dose of Sea Foam to a tank of fresh gasoline will clear things up. It might take two (or even three) treatments to do the trick completely.
D C "Mac" Macdonald
Amateur Radio K2GKK
Since 30 November '53
USAF and FAA, Retired
Member GMCMI & Classics
Oklahoma City, OK
"The Money Pit"
TZE166V101966
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Matt Colie via Gmclist
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 09:15
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Cc: Matt Colie
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC: Yamaha BWS (aka Zuma) 50
Deb wrote on Sun, 18 August 2019 19:10
> Just to remind myself that life isn't ALL GMC, I decided it was time to get the wee scoot out of winter (HA!) storage and on the road. Been
> working on so many hiccups in the coach that I haven't had time to get her out from under her cover).
> Battery was pulled and inside for winter, topped up and in good shape; gas was treated so it is also fine. Starter cranks like a charm, but she
> won't turn over. Tried the kick-starter and no luck there either. So... time to check the plugs for spark and see if there's fuel getting to her.
> After 8 attempts and giving her lots of throttle (2-stroke 2009) she wouldn't start but I would have expected to smell some gas by that point (would
> think she would be flooding by then) however no gas smell. I think it's time to pull off the tupperware and look at the carb and the fuel lines.
> Wa-a-h! :cry:
>
> Like Roseanne Roseanna Danna used to say "If it's not one thing, it's another."
Deb,
I'm going to jump in here because I have way too much experience with miniature two-stroke engines.
If you did not shut the fuel off and run it dry before you put her up for the winter, then the carburetor is plugged up in two probably places. Both
the needle and seat that regulate the fuel level in the carburetor and/or the main fuel jet will be fouled.
First, look at the carburetor bowl and see if there is a plug that can be unscrewed or a sideways screw that is there to be a drain. If you find
either, see if you can make it drain from the tank. If yes, then you know the needle and seat have a chance. If you run some new fuel though it, it
may (NOTE: he wrote MAY) be able to soften what has probably dried in the main jet. It just might start then and run (badly), but if you can get new
fuel though it, it might just run long enough to clear itself out. Then, you don't have to get the carburetor off to clean it.
Good Luck
Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC: Yamaha BWS (aka Zuma) 50 [message #346619 is a reply to message #346613] |
Mon, 19 August 2019 13:09 |
rallymaster
Messages: 662
Registered: February 2004
Location: North Plains, ORYGUN
Karma: -4
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Yeah, Deb, what Matt said. "shut the fuel off and run it dry before you
put her
up for the winter." I've done that with my emergency house generators
for years, and they crank right up. The small engine folks say to run
them under load every couple of months, so they keep working. I've never
done that, and no problems. Don't know about all the other folks that
may or may not do that fare.
RonC
On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 08:15:55 -0600 Matt Colie via Gmclist
writes:
> Deb wrote on Sun, 18 August 2019 19:10
>> Just to remind myself that life isn't ALL GMC, I decided it was
> time to get the wee scoot out of winter (HA!) storage and on the
> road. Been
>> working on so many hiccups in the coach that I haven't had time to
> get her out from under her cover).
>> Battery was pulled and inside for winter, topped up and in good
> shape; gas was treated so it is also fine. Starter cranks like a
> charm, but she
>> won't turn over. > Deb,
> ======================
Matt answered:
> I'm going to jump in here because I have way too much experience
> with miniature two-stroke engines.
>
> If you did not shut the fuel off and run it dry before you put her
> up for the winter, then the carburetor is plugged up in two probably
> places. Both
> the needle and seat that regulate the fuel level in the carburetor
> and/or the main fuel jet will be fouled.
>
> First, look at the carburetor bowl and see if there is a plug that
> can be unscrewed or a sideways screw that is there to be a drain.
> If you find
> either, see if you can make it drain from the tank. If yes, then
> you know the needle and seat have a chance. If you run some new
> fuel though it, it
> may (NOTE: he wrote MAY) be able to soften what has probably dried
> in the main jet. It just might start then and run (badly), but if
> you can get new
> fuel though it, it might just run long enough to clear itself out.
> Then, you don't have to get the carburetor off to clean it.
>
> Good Luck
>
> Matt
>
>
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
Ron & Linda Clark
North Plains, ORYGUN
1978 Eleganza II
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North Plains, ORYGUN
78 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC: Yamaha BWS (aka Zuma) 50 [message #346630 is a reply to message #346619] |
Mon, 19 August 2019 23:33 |
Deb
Messages: 349
Registered: October 2016
Location: Logan Lake, BC
Karma: 2
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Hey Ron. I bet that those that run them every month don't run them dry (& fog them like Matt suggests). If its empty you shouldn't need to cycle the gas through monthly to keep the carb from bunging up. I have 2 little Honda 2000's that I have converted to propane for back up at home. Easier to deal with than gas in the winter in the dark. Doesn't go bad or bung up the system.
You can bet I'll be taking Matt's advice to heart end of this season. Save a lot of work next spring.
Deb McWade
Logan Lake, BC, CAN
GMC Alumnus
It's Bigger on the Inside!
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC: Yamaha BWS (aka Zuma) 50 [message #346631 is a reply to message #346630] |
Tue, 20 August 2019 00:44 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I just started my weed wacker (string trimmer) after letting sit for about 10 months with a full tank of gas. (I forgot to drain and run it last fall. I managed to get it started on fresh gas but had to run in on partial choke. After about 10 minutes of full power and partial choke use it decided to run correctly without choke. Whatever was restricting the gas flow evidently got dissolved and it took of running smoothly. I dodged a bullet on that one. The 10% craponol fuel we are forced to use here, sure cleaned it out. Ethanol is a great cleaner (gas detergent) if you can get it to run through the carb and engine long enough.
Ken B.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC: Yamaha BWS (aka Zuma) 50 [message #346632 is a reply to message #346613] |
Tue, 20 August 2019 01:02 |
rallymaster
Messages: 662
Registered: February 2004
Location: North Plains, ORYGUN
Karma: -4
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Senior Member |
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HI, Deb.
I finally got tired of having to refill the 5 gal gas tank on my
generator when the power was off for a long time, & got a dual fuel
genny. Works great....sort of. I have to whack the electric fuel valve
to make it work. Grumble, grumble, gripe, bitch complain.
Obviously, it's electric start. I can't even pull the rope on this one.
the one before it either. Suppose I'm getting old and weak???
Ron
Ron & Linda Clark
North Plains, ORYGUN
1978 Eleganza II
=============
On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 22:33:59 -0600 Deb McWade via Gmclist
writes:
> Hey Ron. I bet that those that run them every month don't run them
> dry (& fog them like Matt suggests). If its empty you shouldn't need
> to cycle the
> gas through monthly to keep the carb from bunging up. I have 2
> little Honda 2000's that I have converted to propane for back up at
> home. Easier to
> deal with than gas in the winter in the dark. Doesn't go bad or bung
> up the system.
>
> You can bet I'll be taking Matt's advice to heart end of this
> season. Save a lot of work next spring.
> --
> Deb McWade
> Logan Lake, BC, CAN
> "Li'l Sister"
> '77 Kingsley, 403, EBL EFI;
> TZE167V101404
> It's Bigger on the Inside!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
Ron & Linda Clark
North Plains, ORYGUN
1978 Eleganza II
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Ron & Linda Clark
North Plains, ORYGUN
78 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC: Yamaha BWS (aka Zuma) 50 [message #346633 is a reply to message #346630] |
Tue, 20 August 2019 04:13 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Last weekend I went through the same exercise with my SIL's pressure
washer. He's used it for years without ever running the carb dry. It
finally caught up with him and his effort at cleaning the carb didn't help
-- it just wouldn't start. I finally had to completely disassemble the
carb, including the main jet and the venturi tube it retained, clean them
and all passages thoroughly with carb cleaner and reassemble it all. Ran
fine then. But, of course, before all that, we had to go through the
exercise with fouled plug, etc. :-(
DO run 'em dry!
Ken H.
>
>
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Ken Henderson
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC: Yamaha BWS (aka Zuma) 50 [message #346638 is a reply to message #346633] |
Tue, 20 August 2019 10:20 |
Deb
Messages: 349
Registered: October 2016
Location: Logan Lake, BC
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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This is my second season with this little scoot, first 'spring wake up'. I have no idea if the PO(s) ever ran it dry. So from the sounds of it, I think I probably got lucky that it started and is now running. This fall I will empty the tank & run her dry - no manual petcock on this one - I think, from what I can tell in my reading in the service manual, that it opens when the ignition is on. So I can't turn the fuel supply off and then run her dry. I believe I can drain the bowl on it (again, still reading). I may be wrong. Still learning this one.
Deb McWade
Logan Lake, BC, CAN
GMC Alumnus
It's Bigger on the Inside!
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC: Yamaha BWS (aka Zuma) 50 [message #346639 is a reply to message #346638] |
Tue, 20 August 2019 10:27 |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 3
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I think the 2 stroke BWS fuel supply is controlled by a vacuum valve. You
should be able to apply a vacuum source and drain.
But it's been a few years since I've messed with one and I'm in a "12
months a year" scooter zone...
Rob
76 Royale Twin Beds, Dry Bath
Victoria, BC
On Tue., Aug. 20, 2019, 8:20 a.m. Deb McWade via Gmclist, <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> This is my second season with this little scoot, first 'spring wake up'.
> I have no idea if the PO(s) ever ran it dry. So from the sounds of it, I
> think I probably got lucky that it started and is now running. This fall
> I will empty the tank & run her dry - no manual petcock on this one - I
> think, from what I can tell in my reading in the service manual, that it
> opens when the ignition is on. So I can't turn the fuel supply off and then
> run her dry. I believe I can drain the bowl on it (again, still
> reading). I may be wrong. Still learning this one.
> --
> Deb McWade
> Logan Lake, BC, CAN
> "Li'l Sister"
> '77 Kingsley, 403, EBL EFI;
> TZE167V101404
> It's Bigger on the Inside!
>
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Rob -
Victoria, BC -
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC: Yamaha BWS (aka Zuma) 50 [message #346640 is a reply to message #346639] |
Tue, 20 August 2019 10:53 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
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Or you can make sure to fill with ethanol free and some stabil (make sure
it fills the carb)before you store it, disconnect and load the battery on a
tender and pretty much forget about it until spring.
Sully
Bellevue wa.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 8:27 AM GMC Motorhome via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> I think the 2 stroke BWS fuel supply is controlled by a vacuum valve. You
> should be able to apply a vacuum source and drain.
>
> But it's been a few years since I've messed with one and I'm in a "12
> months a year" scooter zone...
>
> Rob
> 76 Royale Twin Beds, Dry Bath
> Victoria, BC
>
> On Tue., Aug. 20, 2019, 8:20 a.m. Deb McWade via Gmclist, gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> This is my second season with this little scoot, first 'spring wake up'.
>> I have no idea if the PO(s) ever ran it dry. So from the sounds of it, I
>> think I probably got lucky that it started and is now running. This fall
>> I will empty the tank & run her dry - no manual petcock on this one - I
>> think, from what I can tell in my reading in the service manual, that it
>> opens when the ignition is on. So I can't turn the fuel supply off and
> then
>> run her dry. I believe I can drain the bowl on it (again, still
>> reading). I may be wrong. Still learning this one.
>> --
>> Deb McWade
>> Logan Lake, BC, CAN
>> "Li'l Sister"
>> '77 Kingsley, 403, EBL EFI;
>> TZE167V101404
>> It's Bigger on the Inside!
>>
> _______________________________________________
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC: Yamaha BWS (aka Zuma) 50 [message #346645 is a reply to message #346640] |
Tue, 20 August 2019 11:33 |
Deb
Messages: 349
Registered: October 2016
Location: Logan Lake, BC
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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sgltrac wrote on Tue, 20 August 2019 08:53Or you can make sure to fill with ethanol free and some stabil (make sure
it fills the carb)before you store it, disconnect and load the battery on a
tender and pretty much forget about it until spring.
Sully
Bellevue wa.
Good thought. I was actually hoping to fill the coach with it this past fall before putting her away. But ethanol-free is getting harder to find up here. Used to be pretty much readily available. I checked our local stations. Nearest is 40 miles from me (that was last year - who knows now!). But it would be worth the trip to fill the gas can just for things like that. Probably do it with the coach this year too. By the time I get her home (40 miles uphill) I will have used some, but would still leave it in better shape than the EtOH10% with stabil.
Deb McWade
Logan Lake, BC, CAN
GMC Alumnus
It's Bigger on the Inside!
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC: Yamaha BWS (aka Zuma) 50 [message #346647 is a reply to message #346644] |
Tue, 20 August 2019 13:09 |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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In my BWS 2 stroke service manual - page 5-8 shows the testing procedure!
Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
> On Aug 20, 2019, at 9:20 AM, Deb McWade via Gmclist wrote:
>
> Thanks for the vacuum valve info. Sounds reasonable from what I have gleaned so far. I will take a good look through the service manual - I still
> have a couple of months to figure out the logistics before the snow flies.
> --
> Deb McWade
> Logan Lake, BC, CAN
> "Li'l Sister"
> '77 Kingsley, 403, EBL EFI;
> TZE167V101404
> It's Bigger on the Inside!
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Rob -
Victoria, BC -
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC: Yamaha BWS (aka Zuma) 50 [message #346650 is a reply to message #346647] |
Tue, 20 August 2019 14:28 |
Deb
Messages: 349
Registered: October 2016
Location: Logan Lake, BC
Karma: 2
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Thank you Rob! I'll pull my digital manual out.
I just got back from about an hour tooling around our little town. I forgot how much fun that little thing is  Got her up to a little under 45 mph on the flat without too much trouble, even kept her above 30 mph on a decent hill we have here in town. Once I got the old gas out, ran some seafoam through with about a half litre of fresh gas, and then filled it with fresh, she ran great. Missed a bit for the first 15 minutes or so at higher speeds, but once things got flushed through, no problems. Also - amazing what a new battery can do! The old one would hold a charge, but just went totally flat as soon as I tried to start. New battery Boom! Started right up first push of the button.
Just noticed I need milk. Might have to go out again 
Deb McWade
Logan Lake, BC, CAN
GMC Alumnus
It's Bigger on the Inside!
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC: Yamaha BWS (aka Zuma) 50 [message #346662 is a reply to message #346661] |
Tue, 20 August 2019 17:42 |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 3
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An MP3 is likely fuel injected! A big difference - especially after sitting for a while.
I've got the same engine (Piaggio Quasar) in my Beverly 250 - mine has a carb...
Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
> On Aug 20, 2019, at 3:32 PM, Deb McWade via Gmclist wrote:
>
> And for good measure, I emptied the old gas from my 2007 mp3 250, popped in the new battery, turned the key and she roared to life. No hesitation.
> She has been sitting there since December 2016. Scooter gods are smiling on me today. :d If she weren't so darned heavy, I would have bought a rack
> for that instead of getting the Yamaha. But a 500 lb scoot on a rack - there's that lever/fulcrum issue again. And I really don't want to tow
> anything. I don't do well with backing up trailers.
> --
> Deb McWade
> Logan Lake, BC, CAN
> "Li'l Sister"
> '77 Kingsley, 403, EBL EFI;
> TZE167V101404
> It's Bigger on the Inside!
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Rob -
Victoria, BC -
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC: Yamaha BWS (aka Zuma) 50 [message #346664 is a reply to message #346662] |
Tue, 20 August 2019 17:55 |
Deb
Messages: 349
Registered: October 2016
Location: Logan Lake, BC
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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It is fuel injection. But I was still surprised that after all this time of sitting, it seemed to run like it was parked yesterday. Idled really smoothly. We'll see how it all goes tomorrow when I get it out of the garage, onto the driveway and give her a good going over. Not much maneuvering room in my garage.
Deb McWade
Logan Lake, BC, CAN
GMC Alumnus
It's Bigger on the Inside!
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mea culpa). Going to drain the tank this morning, pull the plug and put a ml of gas in the hole to see if she fires before I start yanking tupperware. But given the lack of gas smell after all of those attempts, I do suspect that it is a fuel problem, so I think I will have some dismantling to do. However, I think that will be easier for me to deal with than trying to trace a lack of spark. I am a technician, like to work with my hands. Electrical is so NOT my forte.
If she weren't so darned heavy, I would have bought a rack for that instead of getting the Yamaha. But a 500 lb scoot on a rack - there's that lever/fulcrum issue again. And I really don't want to tow anything. I don't do well with backing up trailers.