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| gmail surprise [message #346139] |
Wed, 07 August 2019 06:01  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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I have a gmail account that I next to never use mostly for security reasons. I set this account up back in 2005 when several ISPs blocked all inbound mail from gmail because the were such a huge spam generator. I have used the account sparingly over the years. Today I decided to let my Thunderbird check the gmail account for new messages automatically because I seldom go over there to check it on my own.
What A shock I received. All of those emails I received and erased all the way back from 2005 up until today, including all of the spam and wanted stuff, were still there. They downloaded to my PC when I fired up Thunderbird. You do not see them using gmail's web interface because I erased them years ago but Thunderbird sure found them up to 14 years later.
The point here is that gmail is storing everything you have ever sent or received even after you think it is gone.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: gmail surprise [message #346142 is a reply to message #346139] |
Wed, 07 August 2019 07:22  |
Justin Brady
Messages: 769
Registered: April 2015
Location: Bell Buckle, TN
Karma: 11
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I imagine you hit archive rather than delete.
That's one of my favorite gmail features.
I have ALL of my emails from the last 15 years. Not that I need to go back that far, but I've needed to go back several years multiple times for various reasons.
Justin Brady
http://www.thegmcrv.com/
1976 Palm Beach 455
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| Re: [GMCnet] gmail surprise [message #346145 is a reply to message #346139] |
Wed, 07 August 2019 07:28 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Wonder how much longer it's gonna be before all the world's electrons are
used up storing all that stuff "in the cloud"? Most things are finite. :-)
Ken H.
On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 7:04 AM Ken Burton via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> I have a gmail account that I next to never use mostly for security
> reasons. I set this account up back in 2005 when several ISPs blocked all
> inbound
> mail from gmail because the were such a huge spam generator. I have used
> the account sparingly over the years. Today I decided to let my Thunderbird
> check the gmail account for new messages automatically because I seldom go
> over there to check it on my own.
>
> What A shock I received. All of those emails I received and erased all
> the way back from 2005 up until today, including all of the spam and wanted
> stuff, were still there. They downloaded to my PC when I fired up
> Thunderbird. You do not see them using gmail's web interface because I
> erased them
> years ago but Thunderbird sure found them up to 14 years later.
>
> The point here is that gmail is storing everything you have ever sent or
> received even after you think it is gone.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] gmail surprise [message #346152 is a reply to message #346139] |
Wed, 07 August 2019 08:45 |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 3
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Yep - in most cases, this is because the user is mistakenly using "Archive"
rather than "Delete" (I assume when you say "erase" you actually meant
"delete"). Deleted messages are permanently removed after 30 days
automatically. You can manually empty the trash at any time.
The archived messages (and not yet removed deleted messages) are visible in
the web interface - in the "All Mail" section (which is way down at the
bottom of the Labels list, usually after you hit "More").
Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 4:04 AM Ken Burton via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> I have a gmail account that I next to never use mostly for security
> reasons. I set this account up back in 2005 when several ISPs blocked all
> inbound
> mail from gmail because the were such a huge spam generator. I have used
> the account sparingly over the years. Today I decided to let my Thunderbird
> check the gmail account for new messages automatically because I seldom go
> over there to check it on my own.
>
> What A shock I received. All of those emails I received and erased all
> the way back from 2005 up until today, including all of the spam and wanted
> stuff, were still there. They downloaded to my PC when I fired up
> Thunderbird. You do not see them using gmail's web interface because I
> erased them
> years ago but Thunderbird sure found them up to 14 years later.
>
> The point here is that gmail is storing everything you have ever sent or
> received even after you think it is gone.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
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Rob -
Victoria, BC -
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
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| Re: [GMCnet] gmail surprise [message #346156 is a reply to message #346152] |
Wed, 07 August 2019 10:14 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Well, I can not even find the "archive" option. I used ONLY use the "delete" trash can. I am right now looking online using the "All Mail" "envelope" icon. None of the emails that downloaded appear in any of the categories accessable online including the trash.
I do not use this ID only very occasionally and only for a few conversations a year.
Ken B.
Rob wrote on Wed, 07 August 2019 08:45Yep - in most cases, this is because the user is mistakenly using "Archive"
rather than "Delete" (I assume when you say "erase" you actually meant
"delete"). Deleted messages are permanently removed after 30 days
automatically. You can manually empty the trash at any time.
The archived messages (and not yet removed deleted messages) are visible in
the web interface - in the "All Mail" section (which is way down at the
bottom of the Labels list, usually after you hit "More").
Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 4:04 AM Ken Burton via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> I have a gmail account that I next to never use mostly for security
> reasons. I set this account up back in 2005 when several ISPs blocked all
> inbound
> mail from gmail because the were such a huge spam generator. I have used
> the account sparingly over the years. Today I decided to let my Thunderbird
> check the gmail account for new messages automatically because I seldom go
> over there to check it on my own.
>
> What A shock I received. All of those emails I received and erased all
> the way back from 2005 up until today, including all of the spam and wanted
> stuff, were still there. They downloaded to my PC when I fired up
> Thunderbird. You do not see them using gmail's web interface because I
> erased them
> years ago but Thunderbird sure found them up to 14 years later.
>
> The point here is that gmail is storing everything you have ever sent or
> received even after you think it is gone.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
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Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] gmail surprise [message #346161 is a reply to message #346159] |
Wed, 07 August 2019 11:15 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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"Big Brother" is out there, lurking, waiting to respond three days after an
"event" occurs. (Grin) Don't put nuthin' in writing, either with pen
and paper, or ones and zeros, that you wouldn't want to read on the front
pages.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Wed, Aug 7, 2019, 9:08 AM Ken Burton via Gmclist
wrote:
> NextGenGMC wrote on Wed, 07 August 2019 10:25
>> It is possible to accidentally set the default action for the "Trash
> Can" icon to be Archive instead of Delete. Regardless... you know how they
>> say - once something is online, you can't really ever delete it :(
>
> I am looking online at the trash It says:
>
> Messages that have been in Trash more than 30 days will be automatically
> deleted.
> No conversations in Trash.
>
> 0 GB (0%) of 15 GB used
>
> I have more pressing things to worry about. Especially since I am not a
> real Gmail user. It was interesting tome that they have another storage
> place somewhere that I accidentally accessed.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] gmail surprise [message #346162 is a reply to message #346159] |
Wed, 07 August 2019 11:17 |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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There is no other storage location. If I had to guess (I manage hundreds of Gmail accounts and deal with users daily) - I think you may have setup the account in Thunderbird as "POP", instead of the preferred "IMAP".
POP usually removes the messages from the server after downloading. IMAP leaves them on the server.
If that's what you've done - you may want to push all the email back up to the server... That'll take some work.
Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
> On Aug 7, 2019, at 9:07 AM, Ken Burton via Gmclist wrote:
>
> I am looking online at the trash It says:
>
> Messages that have been in Trash more than 30 days will be automatically deleted.
> No conversations in Trash.
>
> 0 GB (0%) of 15 GB used
>
> I have more pressing things to worry about. Especially since I am not a real Gmail user. It was interesting tome that they have another storage
> place somewhere that I accidentally accessed.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
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Rob -
Victoria, BC -
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
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| Re: [GMCnet] gmail surprise [message #346168 is a reply to message #346162] |
Wed, 07 August 2019 13:13 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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That account access is and always has been IMAP.
My background is in the IT business since 1967. I am / was a Senior Network Design Consultant and Senior Implementation Project manager. The largest contract I ever designed hit 79 countries. I am certified to Homologate networks in 17 countries (post Y2K and the EU). Only some countries require certification.
This does not mean that I am not open to suggestions / ideas, or corrections if I do something wrong, or if you have a better way get something accomplished more efficiently, or to save money while the meeting business needs.
If there is not more than one location hosting their services and backup, I would never do business with that company. I always designed everything, except for the very small customers, with hot standbys and load sharing at multiple geographic locations. A simple probe of their domain name shows there is a simple load director pointing at different sites with vastly different address each time you initiate a session. I did not research where those sites are but I assume a few are even out of the country. In the state of modern real time computing you do not want a local disaster to shut down your business ever, even for 5 minutes. We use to schedule our outages for maintenance and changes 3 to 6 months in advance and usually for Saturday nights or Sunday nights depending on the needs of the business.
In this case I assume that the data I was referring to is stored in more than one database at more than site.
This not my first rodeo.
Thanks for the IMAP suggestion. As test I deleted the account entirely form Thunderbird and re-initiated it again. Guess what? It did the same thing again.
I am done playing with it. Let big brother watch. I am not using it any way. I have several more important projects that I need to work on today.
Ken B.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] gmail surprise [message #346179 is a reply to message #346168] |
Wed, 07 August 2019 16:58 |
Stu Rasmussen
Messages: 130
Registered: January 2019
Location: Silverton, OR
Karma: 0
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There's a Thunderbird setting that may be affecting that:
Go to Tools -> Account Settings -> (select email account) -> Server Settings
And see if the checkbox "Leave Messages on Server" is checked. If it is then TBird leaves messages on the remote host. Uncheck and they're deleted after downloading to the local storage.
Definitely there if you're using POP Mail, I think it also applies to IMAP.
Stu
Stu Rasmussen W7QJ
Silverton, OR
'77 Birchaven
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| Re: [GMCnet] gmail surprise [message #346196 is a reply to message #346179] |
Wed, 07 August 2019 18:40 |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 3
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I've never seen an IMAP client remove the messages from the server, unless they were deleted. It would defeat the purpose of using IMAP.
The IMAP equivalent would be the *opposite* setting (under Synchronization & Storage in Thunderbird): "Keep messages for this account on this computer".
Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
> On Aug 7, 2019, at 2:58 PM, Stu Rasmussen via Gmclist wrote:
>
> There's a Thunderbird setting that may be affecting that:
>
> Go to Tools -> Account Settings -> (select email account) -> Server Settings
>
> And see if the checkbox "Leave Messages on Server" is checked. If it is then TBird leaves messages on the remote host. Uncheck and they're deleted
> after downloading to the local storage.
>
> Definitely there if you're using POP Mail, I think it also applies to IMAP.
>
> Stu
> --
> Stu Rasmussen W7QJ
> Silverton, OR
> gutted '74 Eleganza II (for sale now)
> '77 Birchaven
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Victoria, BC -
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
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| Re: [GMCnet] gmail surprise [message #346197 is a reply to message #346179] |
Wed, 07 August 2019 19:03 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Thanks Stu
I really have to opposite problem. Messages are not showing under "all mail" and I never used Thunderbird on that account. At no time in the last 14 years, until last week when I set up Thunderbird, was Thunderbird used on this account.
I still checked Thunderbird set up and the options I see that might apply are:
When I delete a message
Remove it immediately.
Message storage
Empty trash on exit.
Message archives
Keep messages in
"All mail" on myuserID@gmail.com
Note: When looking at "All mail" using Gmail online access (not Thunderbird) there are no messages in "All mail" except one I sent as a test to my comcast email account about 3 days go.
I really do not see any other settings that would apply because Thunderbird was not used to send and receive any of these messages in the last 14 years that are now appearing in my gmail inbox. Thunderbird was has not received any new messages and sent only one 3 day ago since I set it up.
In a previous life I use to do paid security audits and ethical hacking engagements. The thing we always looked at and tested extensively was external email services and client owned in house servers. At the time we found several problems and exposures with several external providers. With the client's permission and on their behalf I contacted the providers and explained our findings. Most, but not all, of the items were corrected by those providers. I had a contact at the time within this company. I was going to let this drop but I think now I will call them and see if he is still there.
Thank you very much for the suggestion on Thunderbird settings. That suggestion made me go back and closely examine each setting.
Ken Burton
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: gmail surprise [message #346199 is a reply to message #346139] |
Wed, 07 August 2019 19:15 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I think what you are missing is the timing. IMAP was never used on this account in the last 14 years. Everything was managed using their web interface until 3 or 4 days ago when I set up Thunderbird with IMAP. The messages I received spanned the previous 14 years without IMAP and not the last 3-4 days with IMAP. We really need to let this thing die because it really is not GMC related and I really am not going to use that ID more than a couple of times a year anyway.
Thanks for you participation. I enjoyed it.
Ken B.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] gmail surprise [message #346201 is a reply to message #346197] |
Wed, 07 August 2019 19:30 |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Still off-topic...
We had an interesting exploit in the last 90 days or so that affected several of the Zimbra email servers we are running. The sole purpose of the exploit was to steal CPU cycles to mine Bitcoins.
It was ingenious, but a major pain to cleanup... It was interesting to watch the geographic regions that the attacks were originating from and how they moved as we limited access.
Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
> On Aug 7, 2019, at 5:03 PM, Ken Burton via Gmclist wrote:
>
> In a previous life I use to do paid security audits and ethical hacking engagements. The thing we always looked at and tested extensively was
> external email services and client owned in house servers. At the time we found several problems and exposures with several external providers. With
> the client's permission and on their behalf I contacted the providers and explained our findings. Most, but not all, of the items were corrected by
> those providers. I had a contact at the time within this company. I was going to let this drop but I think now I will call them and see if he is
> still there.
>
> Ken Burton
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
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Rob -
Victoria, BC -
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
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| Re: [GMCnet] gmail surprise [message #346207 is a reply to message #346201] |
Wed, 07 August 2019 22:03 |
NextGenGMC
Messages: 146
Registered: December 2017
Location: Washington State
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Do you access your messages from phone? There is a setting there for Default Notification Action. It can be set to Archive or Delete. I do not see similar setting in the PC version of Gmail, but it doesn't mean it's not there...
Isn't it funny how things you wanted to delete keep re-appearing like the White Walkers in GOT, but one file you wanted keep but ACCIDENTALLY hit "delete" is gone forever 
Vadim Jitkov
'76 Glenbrook 26'
Pullman, WA
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