Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » galley window won't fit (Window refreshing rubbers)
| galley window won't fit [message #345872] |
Wed, 31 July 2019 07:09  |
tmsnyder
Messages: 151
Registered: January 2014
Karma: -9
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Senior Member |
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I'm having trouble with replacing the rubbers in my 76 Eleganza 2. The galley window, (the medium size one that is fixed, doesn't open) I have it out and the channel cleaned up. Reinstalled the black sealent tape with the spacers on the edge, and placed the window in the opening. Started pushing the rubber into place and it's quickly becoming obvious that the rubber needs a little more space than I have to offer along the vertical sides. The top and bottom have enough of a gap to get the rubber in, but the sides are too tight.
I put the rubber strip up one side, across the top, but can't make the corner to come down the other side. There's only about a 1/16th of an inch gap and I need about 1/8" or maybe a little more to get the rubber in place.
One problem may be that the rubber tape from Applied is way too bulky. I already learned from previous windows that this needs to be worked into place with a thumb to stretch it out to about 3x it's original length, and even then it's way too bulky. Maybe with the thicker tape it's not allowing the window to seat properly on the one side, and using up space from the other side?
If I take out the glass, can I open up the window frame a little ? Is there any 'give' to it? Or will I ripple the side skin of the motorhome?
Any insight would be appreciated, thank you!
Todd Snyder, Buffalo NY
1976 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] galley window won't fit [message #345875 is a reply to message #345872] |
Wed, 31 July 2019 08:41  |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Call Nick at our shop and have him guide you, think your not approaching it
right.
On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 5:23 AM Todd Snyder via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> I'm having trouble with replacing the rubbers in my 76 Eleganza 2. The
> galley window, (the medium size one that is fixed, doesn't open) I have it
> out
> and the channel cleaned up. Reinstalled the black sealent tape with the
> spacers on the edge, and placed the window in the opening. Started pushing
> the rubber into place and it's quickly becoming obvious that the rubber
> needs a little more space than I have to offer along the vertical sides.
> The
> top and bottom have enough of a gap to get the rubber in, but the sides
> are too tight.
>
> I put the rubber strip up one side, across the top, but can't make the
> corner to come down the other side. There's only about a 1/16th of an inch
> gap and I need about 1/8" or maybe a little more to get the rubber in
> place.
>
> One problem may be that the rubber tape from Applied is way too bulky. I
> already learned from previous windows that this needs to be worked into
> place with a thumb to stretch it out to about 3x it's original length, and
> even then it's way too bulky. Maybe with the thicker tape it's not
> allowing the window to seat properly on the one side, and using up space
> from the other side?
>
> If I take out the glass, can I open up the window frame a little ? Is
> there any 'give' to it? Or will I ripple the side skin of the motorhome?
>
> Any insight would be appreciated, thank you!
> --
> Todd Snyder, Buffalo NY
> 1976 Eleganza II
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: galley window won't fit [message #345876 is a reply to message #345872] |
Wed, 31 July 2019 08:52 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Try lubricating the rubber strip and window frame liberally with liquid soap or silicone spray and reinstall before attempting to modify the window frame.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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| Re: galley window won't fit [message #345893 is a reply to message #345876] |
Wed, 31 July 2019 15:15 |
tmsnyder
Messages: 151
Registered: January 2014
Karma: -9
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Senior Member |
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So it seems I'm using the tape wrong. Just spoke with Nick at Applied. The black butyl rubber tape is meant to seal the aluminum window frame to the body of the coach. But I'm not removing the frames (or at least I wasn't planning to), I'm just resetting the glass and putting on new rubbers b/c the old rubbers look pretty bad and some of the fixed windows had shifted out of position leaving a gap into the coach.
So now the question is, what to use to set the glass in the channel? Nick said they sell a caulk tube of it on their website but I don't see it there. The stuff I scraped out of the channel sure did look like black butyl rubber.
Todd Snyder, Buffalo NY
1976 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] galley window won't fit [message #345918 is a reply to message #345896] |
Thu, 01 August 2019 12:45 |
Rich Kinas
Messages: 113
Registered: July 2019
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Well, I'm doing my windows right now. I am doing both the frame to the
coach reseal and the glass to the frame reseal. I am using butyl tape in
both cases. When I first got my butyl tape I placed a small piece in a
clear zip-lock bag so I could see how much pressure was required to
compress it to a specific size. For the frame to the coach I was looking
for an end result of about a 1/16 " final compressed thickness. I quickly
realized that the tape I purchased from a vendor was wayyyy to thick and
would never work. This weekend I am going to try some 1/4" x 1/8" butyl
tape, with my tests showing the pressure required and final thickness are
reasonable. I am planning on placing the tape on the window and using wax
papper to pre-compress it to close to the final 1/16 thickness. Then place
the frame in the coach opening and using hand pressure to seat the frame
before installing the aluminum mounting brackets on the inside of the
coach. As a side note the frame can be adjusted a pretty good amount and
once the butyl grabs the coach it will not want to move around, so I cut
some temporary spacers when dry fitting the frame to make sure when I did
the final install with tape it would be in the perfect position. As far as
setting the glass in frame 1/4" round butyl tape was factory and is correct
to use. Again I would recommend dry fitting the glass to see whats what
before adding the tape to the glass (or tape to the frame either way
works). If you need to make some temporary spaces to make sure it is
aligned right I would do that, it beats pulling the whole thing off and
starting over. Pay attention to how far (and even) the glass is set
(compressed butyl tape) compared to the outside face of the frame. Laying
the small gasket in the sun before installing helps, using a lubricating
agent can help as well, but an improperly centered or not fully compressed
butyl tape will make it impossible to install. I recommend playing around
with butyl tape sizes (using the clear plastic bag) until you find one that
gives you the compression and size you need.
Rich Kinas
1976 Eleganza II
Orlando, FL 32806
On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 6:20 PM Randy Hecht via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Sounds like window channel felt is what your I need of. Add picture.
>
> Chaplain Randy Hecht
> Roswell, GA
> Chaplains are ready to Listen when you're ready to talk.
>
> 1974 Canyon Lakes GMC the Unicorn Express
> 80mm Front Disc and a work in progress
>
>
>> On Jul 31, 2019, at 4:15 PM, Todd Snyder via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> So it seems I'm using the tape wrong. Just spoke with Nick at Applied.
> The black butyl rubber tape is meant to seal the aluminum window frame to
> the
>> body of the coach. But I'm not removing the frames (or at least I
> wasn't planning to), I'm just resetting the glass and putting on new
> rubbers b/c
>> the old rubbers look pretty bad and some of the fixed windows had
> shifted out of position leaving a gap into the coach.
>>
>> So now the question is, what to use to set the glass in the channel?
> Nick said they sell a caulk tube of it on their website but I don't see it
>> there. The stuff I scraped out of the channel sure did look like black
> butyl rubber.
>> --
>> Todd Snyder, Buffalo NY
>> 1976 Eleganza II
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Rich Kinas
1976 Elaganza II
Orlando, FL
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| Re: [GMCnet] galley window won't fit [message #345925 is a reply to message #345918] |
Thu, 01 August 2019 16:42 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Call Nick and he will sell you the correct one.
On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 10:46 AM Rich Kinas via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Well, I'm doing my windows right now. I am doing both the frame to the
> coach reseal and the glass to the frame reseal. I am using butyl tape in
> both cases. When I first got my butyl tape I placed a small piece in a
> clear zip-lock bag so I could see how much pressure was required to
> compress it to a specific size. For the frame to the coach I was looking
> for an end result of about a 1/16 " final compressed thickness. I quickly
> realized that the tape I purchased from a vendor was wayyyy to thick and
> would never work. This weekend I am going to try some 1/4" x 1/8" butyl
> tape, with my tests showing the pressure required and final thickness are
> reasonable. I am planning on placing the tape on the window and using wax
> papper to pre-compress it to close to the final 1/16 thickness. Then place
> the frame in the coach opening and using hand pressure to seat the frame
> before installing the aluminum mounting brackets on the inside of the
> coach. As a side note the frame can be adjusted a pretty good amount and
> once the butyl grabs the coach it will not want to move around, so I cut
> some temporary spacers when dry fitting the frame to make sure when I did
> the final install with tape it would be in the perfect position. As far as
> setting the glass in frame 1/4" round butyl tape was factory and is correct
> to use. Again I would recommend dry fitting the glass to see whats what
> before adding the tape to the glass (or tape to the frame either way
> works). If you need to make some temporary spaces to make sure it is
> aligned right I would do that, it beats pulling the whole thing off and
> starting over. Pay attention to how far (and even) the glass is set
> (compressed butyl tape) compared to the outside face of the frame. Laying
> the small gasket in the sun before installing helps, using a lubricating
> agent can help as well, but an improperly centered or not fully compressed
> butyl tape will make it impossible to install. I recommend playing around
> with butyl tape sizes (using the clear plastic bag) until you find one that
> gives you the compression and size you need.
>
> Rich Kinas
> 1976 Eleganza II
> Orlando, FL 32806
>
> On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 6:20 PM Randy Hecht via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Sounds like window channel felt is what your I need of. Add picture.
>>
>> Chaplain Randy Hecht
>> Roswell, GA
>> Chaplains are ready to Listen when you're ready to talk.
>>
>> 1974 Canyon Lakes GMC the Unicorn Express
>> 80mm Front Disc and a work in progress
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 31, 2019, at 4:15 PM, Todd Snyder via Gmclist > gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> So it seems I'm using the tape wrong. Just spoke with Nick at Applied.
>> The black butyl rubber tape is meant to seal the aluminum window frame to
>> the
>>> body of the coach. But I'm not removing the frames (or at least I
>> wasn't planning to), I'm just resetting the glass and putting on new
>> rubbers b/c
>>> the old rubbers look pretty bad and some of the fixed windows had
>> shifted out of position leaving a gap into the coach.
>>>
>>> So now the question is, what to use to set the glass in the channel?
>> Nick said they sell a caulk tube of it on their website but I don't see
> it
>>> there. The stuff I scraped out of the channel sure did look like black
>> butyl rubber.
>>> --
>>> Todd Snyder, Buffalo NY
>>> 1976 Eleganza II
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] galley window won't fit [message #345933 is a reply to message #345918] |
Thu, 01 August 2019 21:39 |
tmsnyder
Messages: 151
Registered: January 2014
Karma: -9
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Senior Member |
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Wow Rich, I wish I had spoken to you about 2 weeks ago. You just confirmed everything that I had been thinking. The original seal of the glass to the aluminum was a 1/4" round black butyl, makes sense, that sounds exactly like what I found the glass set into, and matches what I ended up doing, which was to take the way too thick stuff and roll it with my thumb into place, making it about the same amount as 1/4" round, but I'd like a little less actually. When there's too much sealant behind the glass, it makes the gap small for the rubber. It needs to be between a fat 1/8" and 3/16" which is not a lot of wiggle room.
I did see 1/16" by 3/8" black butyl tape on amazon, that may be the way to go.
I tried the product recommended by Nick at Applied, silicone sealant which was way too gooey and the window ended up setting in the frame too far, so the gaps were so wide that there was no way to snap in the rubbers. So that came back out and we tried to get all the silicone sealant off with solvent but that stuff never comes off completely. What a mess. And after that the black butyl wouldn't stick like it used to. Made it easier to work with but worries me that it might leak where the silicone contaminated the seal.
I ended up rolling the butyl into about a 1/4" thread and pressed that onto the frame, then placed the window and installed the rubber. I made the butyl too thick b/c the rubber really fought me going in, it was a pita. Finally figured out that I could force little nibbles of the rubber into place with a putty knife and made it do what my thumbs couldn't do, got it into a thin 1/8" gap.
Todd Snyder, Buffalo NY
1976 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] galley window won't fit [message #345941 is a reply to message #345933] |
Fri, 02 August 2019 07:59 |
Rich Kinas
Messages: 113
Registered: July 2019
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Todd,
So since I am planning on doing all my windows I am studying this process
in detail. Here are my concerns (that hopefully I can all address this
weekend)
1) That my window stays centered when installing (my centering blocks
should address this issue)
2) That when fully seated the window provides just enough clearance for a
firm but not super tight gasket install. I'm going to play with some small
pieces of butyl and gasket to verify exactly how much compression I need on
the window setting butyl tape to get the desired firmness I am looking for.
I'll let you know where I end up.
3) I think that many of the coaches I see where the gasket has pulled free
from the corners was from the a very tight install where the gasket got
stretched during the install and subsequently shrank and pulled free. This
is why a firm but not super tight install I believe would be preferred.
However I guess it could be that gasket simple fell out of the corners
because it was not firm enough...Well see...
Rich
1976 Eleganza II
Orlando, FL 32806
On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 10:52 PM Todd Snyder via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Wow Rich, I wish I had spoken to you about 2 weeks ago. You just
> confirmed everything that I had been thinking. The original seal of the
> glass to
> the aluminum was a 1/4" round black butyl, makes sense, that sounds
> exactly like what I found the glass set into, and matches what I ended up
> doing,
> which was to take the way too thick stuff and roll it with my thumb into
> place, making it about the same amount as 1/4" round, but I'd like a little
> less actually. When there's too much sealant behind the glass, it makes
> the gap small for the rubber. It needs to be between a fat 1/8" and 3/16"
> which is not a lot of wiggle room.
>
> I did see 1/16" by 3/8" black butyl tape on amazon, that may be the way to
> go.
>
> I tried the product recommended by Nick at Applied, silicone sealant which
> was way too gooey and the window ended up setting in the frame too far, so
> the gaps were so wide that there was no way to snap in the rubbers. So
> that came back out and we tried to get all the silicone sealant off with
> solvent but that stuff never comes off completely. What a mess. And
> after that the black butyl wouldn't stick like it used to. Made it easier
> to
> work with but worries me that it might leak where the silicone
> contaminated the seal.
>
> I ended up rolling the butyl into about a 1/4" thread and pressed that
> onto the frame, then placed the window and installed the rubber. I made the
> butyl too thick b/c the rubber really fought me going in, it was a pita.
> Finally figured out that I could force little nibbles of the rubber into
> place with a putty knife and made it do what my thumbs couldn't do, got it
> into a thin 1/8" gap.
> --
> Todd Snyder, Buffalo NY
> 1976 Eleganza II
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
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Rich Kinas
1976 Elaganza II
Orlando, FL
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| Re: [GMCnet] galley window won't fit [message #345954 is a reply to message #345941] |
Fri, 02 August 2019 13:39 |
tmsnyder
Messages: 151
Registered: January 2014
Karma: -9
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Senior Member |
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Rich, I also noticed on my first install that with the full thickness of the tape behind the glass, the glass was sitting a little too 'proud' in the opening and this rocked the inside lip of the rubber away from the glass when installed. It also made the gap small.
If you ever run into a situation where it is a tight gap, try using the corner of a small putty knive to pop the rubber down under the aluminum lip. Saves your thumbs.
I'd like to find a round thread of black butyl, 3/16 in diameter. That would be perfect imo.
Todd Snyder, Buffalo NY
1976 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] galley window won't fit [message #345958 is a reply to message #345954] |
Fri, 02 August 2019 15:08 |
mghamms
Messages: 466
Registered: March 2016
Location: Ware, Massachusetts
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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I used a butyl caulk. One small bead under the glass then put in new weather strip.
tmsnyder wrote on Fri, 02 August 2019 13:39Rich, I also noticed on my first install that with the full thickness of the tape behind the glass, the glass was sitting a little too 'proud' in the opening and this rocked the inside lip of the rubber away from the glass when installed. It also made the gap small.
If you ever run into a situation where it is a tight gap, try using the corner of a small putty knive to pop the rubber down under the aluminum lip. Saves your thumbs.
I'd like to find a round thread of black butyl, 3/16 in diameter. That would be perfect imo.
1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts
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| Re: [GMCnet] galley window won't fit [message #346098 is a reply to message #345958] |
Mon, 05 August 2019 15:25 |
Rich Kinas
Messages: 113
Registered: July 2019
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Hey all,
So I worked on the door window this weekend. I reinstalled the frame using
1/4" x 1/8" inch butyl tape. if you look at the back of the frame, I
centered the 1/4" on the ridge between the two narrow troughs centered the
frame in the window and pressed in into place. I then installed the
interior frame holders (or whatever you call these pieces of aluminum) just
barely snug at first, then going around making them tighter and tighter,
(three passes). The end result is exactly what I was hoping for! I'd say
about 1/32" distance between the frame and coach skin all the way around,
and what appears to be a perfect seal. Ran out of tape, so I wont be till
this weekend before I can reset the glass in the frame. Going to try the
same 1/4" by 1/8" butyl tape.
Rich
On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 4:09 PM Mike Hamm via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> I used a butyl caulk. One small bead under the glass then put in new
> weather strip.
>
> tmsnyder wrote on Fri, 02 August 2019 13:39
>> Rich, I also noticed on my first install that with the full thickness of
> the tape behind the glass, the glass was sitting a little too 'proud' in
>> the opening and this rocked the inside lip of the rubber away from the
> glass when installed. It also made the gap small.
>>
>> If you ever run into a situation where it is a tight gap, try using the
> corner of a small putty knive to pop the rubber down under the aluminum
>> lip. Saves your thumbs.
>>
>> I'd like to find a round thread of black butyl, 3/16 in diameter. That
> would be perfect imo.
>
>
> --
> 1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Rich Kinas
1976 Elaganza II
Orlando, FL
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