Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Double lip seal for front of Onan
| [GMCnet] Double lip seal for front of Onan [message #345680] |
Wed, 24 July 2019 16:05  |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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The Original front seal behind the flywheel is an Onan 509-0040. (The rear seal is an Onan 509-0041). The 509-0040 crosses to a National 470162R or SKF11806.
Those are a single lip Viton seal.
I found a double lipped seal that should be much better than the original single lip. It is made of Nitrile rubber which is better than Viton.
CR SKF 11801 (CR = Chicago Rawhide)
I got it at a local bearing supplier but it was a Harwal box.
1.187 x 2.000 x .437
Type: BDL Material: NBR
BDL = Double Lipped
NBR = Nitrile Rubber
It fits right into the opening when tapped into place.
To remove the old one I used a slide puller which had a screw on the end that one normally puts into a hole in a dented piece of metal such as a fender that you are trying to straighten.
You could also try two self tapping metal screws and pull them out with a couple of vice grips.
I drilled a 3//32” hole into the seal and screwed in the slide hammer. (Depending on the size screw you may need a different drill hole).
A couple of slides and the old seal pulled right out.
I greased up the lips and the outer metal of the seal and then used a piece of 1-1/2” pipe (OD=1.9”) to drive in the new seal until it seated.
The double lipped seal would help prevent leakage at the seal. Especially if the old single lipped seal has worn a tiny groove into the shaft.
While you have the flywheel off be sure to check your low oil pressure switch for leakage and also the hanging bracket behind the oil filter.
That bracket has a gasket on both sides of it. You may have to cut your own new gasket if that is leaking. Don't use cork.
For a discussion on the difference between a Viton seal and a Nitrile Rubber seal see: http://www.easternseals.co.uk/viton-fkm-vs-nitrile/
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
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| Re: [GMCnet] Double lip seal for front of Onan [message #345681 is a reply to message #345680] |
Wed, 24 July 2019 16:22  |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Good job Emery. While you had the tin and flywheel off, I hope you replaced
the gasket under the oil filter base. Those things are subject to the
unique harmonics of the opposed 2 cylinder engine, and frequently loosen
up. I use permatex hi-tack gasket sealer in a spray can, place the gasket
on scrap cardboard, spray a wet coat and let it dry, flip it over and
repeat. When ready to reassemble, spray a wet coat on both sides, quickly
place the gasket and replace the mounting base. Some have studs and nuts,
which I prefer, and some have cap screws into the block. Use blue loctite
in either case, and tighten them up. Leave it set for a 1/2 hour or so, and
snug them up one more time. Leak over for a very long time.
One caution, don't set that seal too deeply.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 2:06 PM Emery Stora via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> The Original front seal behind the flywheel is an Onan 509-0040. (The
> rear seal is an Onan 509-0041). The 509-0040 crosses to a National 470162R
> or SKF11806.
> Those are a single lip Viton seal.
>
> I found a double lipped seal that should be much better than the original
> single lip. It is made of Nitrile rubber which is better than Viton.
> CR SKF 11801 (CR = Chicago Rawhide)
>
> I got it at a local bearing supplier but it was a Harwal box.
>
> 1.187 x 2.000 x .437
> Type: BDL Material: NBR
>
> BDL = Double Lipped
> NBR = Nitrile Rubber
>
> It fits right into the opening when tapped into place.
>
> To remove the old one I used a slide puller which had a screw on the end
> that one normally puts into a hole in a dented piece of metal such as a
> fender that you are trying to straighten.
> You could also try two self tapping metal screws and pull them out with a
> couple of vice grips.
>
> I drilled a 3//32” hole into the seal and screwed in the slide hammer.
> (Depending on the size screw you may need a different drill hole).
> A couple of slides and the old seal pulled right out.
>
> I greased up the lips and the outer metal of the seal and then used a
> piece of 1-1/2” pipe (OD=1.9”) to drive in the new seal until it seated.
>
> The double lipped seal would help prevent leakage at the seal. Especially
> if the old single lipped seal has worn a tiny groove into the shaft.
>
> While you have the flywheel off be sure to check your low oil pressure
> switch for leakage and also the hanging bracket behind the oil filter.
> That bracket has a gasket on both sides of it. You may have to cut your
> own new gasket if that is leaking. Don't use cork.
>
> For a discussion on the difference between a Viton seal and a Nitrile
> Rubber seal see: http://www.easternseals.co.uk/viton-fkm-vs-nitrile/
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Frederick, CO
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Double lip seal for front of Onan [message #345684 is a reply to message #345681] |
Wed, 24 July 2019 16:27 |
Emery Stora
Messages: 959
Registered: January 2011
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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James
That is all very correct. I have also found that some have tightened the bolts (or nut on studs) too tightly and that can deform the gaskets and actually cause leaks.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
> On Jul 24, 2019, at 3:22 PM, James Hupy via Gmclist wrote:
>
> Good job Emery. While you had the tin and flywheel off, I hope you replaced
> the gasket under the oil filter base. Those things are subject to the
> unique harmonics of the opposed 2 cylinder engine, and frequently loosen
> up. I use permatex hi-tack gasket sealer in a spray can, place the gasket
> on scrap cardboard, spray a wet coat and let it dry, flip it over and
> repeat. When ready to reassemble, spray a wet coat on both sides, quickly
> place the gasket and replace the mounting base. Some have studs and nuts,
> which I prefer, and some have cap screws into the block. Use blue loctite
> in either case, and tighten them up. Leave it set for a 1/2 hour or so, and
> snug them up one more time. Leak over for a very long time.
> One caution, don't set that seal too deeply.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 2:06 PM Emery Stora via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> The Original front seal behind the flywheel is an Onan 509-0040. (The
>> rear seal is an Onan 509-0041). The 509-0040 crosses to a National 470162R
>> or SKF11806.
>> Those are a single lip Viton seal.
>>
>> I found a double lipped seal that should be much better than the original
>> single lip. It is made of Nitrile rubber which is better than Viton.
>> CR SKF 11801 (CR = Chicago Rawhide)
>>
>> I got it at a local bearing supplier but it was a Harwal box.
>>
>> 1.187 x 2.000 x .437
>> Type: BDL Material: NBR
>>
>> BDL = Double Lipped
>> NBR = Nitrile Rubber
>>
>> It fits right into the opening when tapped into place.
>>
>> To remove the old one I used a slide puller which had a screw on the end
>> that one normally puts into a hole in a dented piece of metal such as a
>> fender that you are trying to straighten.
>> You could also try two self tapping metal screws and pull them out with a
>> couple of vice grips.
>>
>> I drilled a 3//32” hole into the seal and screwed in the slide hammer.
>> (Depending on the size screw you may need a different drill hole).
>> A couple of slides and the old seal pulled right out.
>>
>> I greased up the lips and the outer metal of the seal and then used a
>> piece of 1-1/2” pipe (OD=1.9”) to drive in the new seal until it seated.
>>
>> The double lipped seal would help prevent leakage at the seal. Especially
>> if the old single lipped seal has worn a tiny groove into the shaft.
>>
>> While you have the flywheel off be sure to check your low oil pressure
>> switch for leakage and also the hanging bracket behind the oil filter.
>> That bracket has a gasket on both sides of it. You may have to cut your
>> own new gasket if that is leaking. Don't use cork.
>>
>> For a discussion on the difference between a Viton seal and a Nitrile
>> Rubber seal see: http://www.easternseals.co.uk/viton-fkm-vs-nitrile/
>>
>> Emery Stora
>> 77 Kingsley
>> Frederick, CO
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
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> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] Double lip seal for front of Onan [message #345685 is a reply to message #345684] |
Wed, 24 July 2019 16:36 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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I specifically did not mention a tightening torque for that very reason.
Good check, Emery.
Jim Hupy
On Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 2:28 PM Emery Stora via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> James
> That is all very correct. I have also found that some have tightened the
> bolts (or nut on studs) too tightly and that can deform the gaskets and
> actually cause leaks.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Frederick, CO
>
>> On Jul 24, 2019, at 3:22 PM, James Hupy via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Good job Emery. While you had the tin and flywheel off, I hope you
> replaced
>> the gasket under the oil filter base. Those things are subject to the
>> unique harmonics of the opposed 2 cylinder engine, and frequently loosen
>> up. I use permatex hi-tack gasket sealer in a spray can, place the gasket
>> on scrap cardboard, spray a wet coat and let it dry, flip it over and
>> repeat. When ready to reassemble, spray a wet coat on both sides, quickly
>> place the gasket and replace the mounting base. Some have studs and nuts,
>> which I prefer, and some have cap screws into the block. Use blue loctite
>> in either case, and tighten them up. Leave it set for a 1/2 hour or so,
> and
>> snug them up one more time. Leak over for a very long time.
>> One caution, don't set that seal too deeply.
>> Jim Hupy
>> Salem, Oregon
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 2:06 PM Emery Stora via Gmclist > gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> The Original front seal behind the flywheel is an Onan 509-0040. (The
>>> rear seal is an Onan 509-0041). The 509-0040 crosses to a National
> 470162R
>>> or SKF11806.
>>> Those are a single lip Viton seal.
>>>
>>> I found a double lipped seal that should be much better than the
> original
>>> single lip. It is made of Nitrile rubber which is better than Viton.
>>> CR SKF 11801 (CR = Chicago Rawhide)
>>>
>>> I got it at a local bearing supplier but it was a Harwal box.
>>>
>>> 1.187 x 2.000 x .437
>>> Type: BDL Material: NBR
>>>
>>> BDL = Double Lipped
>>> NBR = Nitrile Rubber
>>>
>>> It fits right into the opening when tapped into place.
>>>
>>> To remove the old one I used a slide puller which had a screw on the end
>>> that one normally puts into a hole in a dented piece of metal such as a
>>> fender that you are trying to straighten.
>>> You could also try two self tapping metal screws and pull them out with
> a
>>> couple of vice grips.
>>>
>>> I drilled a 3//32” hole into the seal and screwed in the slide hammer.
>>> (Depending on the size screw you may need a different drill hole).
>>> A couple of slides and the old seal pulled right out.
>>>
>>> I greased up the lips and the outer metal of the seal and then used a
>>> piece of 1-1/2” pipe (OD=1.9”) to drive in the new seal until it seated.
>>>
>>> The double lipped seal would help prevent leakage at the seal.
> Especially
>>> if the old single lipped seal has worn a tiny groove into the shaft.
>>>
>>> While you have the flywheel off be sure to check your low oil pressure
>>> switch for leakage and also the hanging bracket behind the oil filter.
>>> That bracket has a gasket on both sides of it. You may have to cut your
>>> own new gasket if that is leaking. Don't use cork.
>>>
>>> For a discussion on the difference between a Viton seal and a Nitrile
>>> Rubber seal see: http://www.easternseals.co.uk/viton-fkm-vs-nitrile/
>>>
>>> Emery Stora
>>> 77 Kingsley
>>> Frederick, CO
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Double lip seal for front of Onan [message #345711 is a reply to message #345685] |
Thu, 25 July 2019 13:02 |
Will Albers
Messages: 183
Registered: November 2017
Location: Detroit MI (Belleville)
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Hmm, this one?
https://www.amazon.com/11801-Chicago-Rawhide-Equivalent-TCM/dp/B07P6DZV3Z/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=11801+SKF+Equivalent+Oil+Seal+by+TCM%2C+1.19+Inch+Shaft& amp;qid=1564077693&s=gateway&sr=8-1
On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 5:36 PM James Hupy via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> I specifically did not mention a tightening torque for that very reason.
> Good check, Emery.
> Jim Hupy
>
> On Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 2:28 PM Emery Stora via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> James
>> That is all very correct. I have also found that some have tightened the
>> bolts (or nut on studs) too tightly and that can deform the gaskets and
>> actually cause leaks.
>>
>> Emery Stora
>> 77 Kingsley
>> Frederick, CO
>>
>>> On Jul 24, 2019, at 3:22 PM, James Hupy via Gmclist > gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Good job Emery. While you had the tin and flywheel off, I hope you
>> replaced
>>> the gasket under the oil filter base. Those things are subject to the
>>> unique harmonics of the opposed 2 cylinder engine, and frequently
> loosen
>>> up. I use permatex hi-tack gasket sealer in a spray can, place the
> gasket
>>> on scrap cardboard, spray a wet coat and let it dry, flip it over and
>>> repeat. When ready to reassemble, spray a wet coat on both sides,
> quickly
>>> place the gasket and replace the mounting base. Some have studs and
> nuts,
>>> which I prefer, and some have cap screws into the block. Use blue
> loctite
>>> in either case, and tighten them up. Leave it set for a 1/2 hour or so,
>> and
>>> snug them up one more time. Leak over for a very long time.
>>> One caution, don't set that seal too deeply.
>>> Jim Hupy
>>> Salem, Oregon
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 2:06 PM Emery Stora via Gmclist >> gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Original front seal behind the flywheel is an Onan 509-0040. (The
>>>> rear seal is an Onan 509-0041). The 509-0040 crosses to a National
>> 470162R
>>>> or SKF11806.
>>>> Those are a single lip Viton seal.
>>>>
>>>> I found a double lipped seal that should be much better than the
>> original
>>>> single lip. It is made of Nitrile rubber which is better than Viton.
>>>> CR SKF 11801 (CR = Chicago Rawhide)
>>>>
>>>> I got it at a local bearing supplier but it was a Harwal box.
>>>>
>>>> 1.187 x 2.000 x .437
>>>> Type: BDL Material: NBR
>>>>
>>>> BDL = Double Lipped
>>>> NBR = Nitrile Rubber
>>>>
>>>> It fits right into the opening when tapped into place.
>>>>
>>>> To remove the old one I used a slide puller which had a screw on the
> end
>>>> that one normally puts into a hole in a dented piece of metal such as
> a
>>>> fender that you are trying to straighten.
>>>> You could also try two self tapping metal screws and pull them out
> with
>> a
>>>> couple of vice grips.
>>>>
>>>> I drilled a 3//32” hole into the seal and screwed in the slide hammer.
>>>> (Depending on the size screw you may need a different drill hole).
>>>> A couple of slides and the old seal pulled right out.
>>>>
>>>> I greased up the lips and the outer metal of the seal and then used a
>>>> piece of 1-1/2” pipe (OD=1.9”) to drive in the new seal until it
> seated.
>>>>
>>>> The double lipped seal would help prevent leakage at the seal.
>> Especially
>>>> if the old single lipped seal has worn a tiny groove into the shaft.
>>>>
>>>> While you have the flywheel off be sure to check your low oil pressure
>>>> switch for leakage and also the hanging bracket behind the oil filter.
>>>> That bracket has a gasket on both sides of it. You may have to cut
> your
>>>> own new gasket if that is leaking. Don't use cork.
>>>>
>>>> For a discussion on the difference between a Viton seal and a Nitrile
>>>> Rubber seal see: http://www.easternseals.co.uk/viton-fkm-vs-nitrile/
>>>>
>>>> Emery Stora
>>>> 77 Kingsley
>>>> Frederick, CO
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
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1978 Palm Beach.
Detroit Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Double lip seal for front of Onan [message #345722 is a reply to message #345711] |
Thu, 25 July 2019 15:04 |
Emery Stora
Messages: 959
Registered: January 2011
Karma: 4
|
Senior Member |
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Yes, that looks about right.
Emery Stora
> On Jul 25, 2019, at 12:02 PM, Will via Gmclist wrote:
>
> Hmm, this one?
> https://www.amazon.com/11801-Chicago-Rawhide-Equivalent-TCM/dp/B07P6DZV3Z/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=11801+SKF+Equivalent+Oil+Seal+by+TCM%2C+1.19+Inch+Shaft& amp;qid=1564077693&s=gateway&sr=8-1
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 5:36 PM James Hupy via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> I specifically did not mention a tightening torque for that very reason.
>> Good check, Emery.
>> Jim Hupy
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 2:28 PM Emery Stora via Gmclist > gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> James
>>> That is all very correct. I have also found that some have tightened the
>>> bolts (or nut on studs) too tightly and that can deform the gaskets and
>>> actually cause leaks.
>>>
>>> Emery Stora
>>> 77 Kingsley
>>> Frederick, CO
>>>
>>>> On Jul 24, 2019, at 3:22 PM, James Hupy via Gmclist >> gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Good job Emery. While you had the tin and flywheel off, I hope you
>>> replaced
>>>> the gasket under the oil filter base. Those things are subject to the
>>>> unique harmonics of the opposed 2 cylinder engine, and frequently
>> loosen
>>>> up. I use permatex hi-tack gasket sealer in a spray can, place the
>> gasket
>>>> on scrap cardboard, spray a wet coat and let it dry, flip it over and
>>>> repeat. When ready to reassemble, spray a wet coat on both sides,
>> quickly
>>>> place the gasket and replace the mounting base. Some have studs and
>> nuts,
>>>> which I prefer, and some have cap screws into the block. Use blue
>> loctite
>>>> in either case, and tighten them up. Leave it set for a 1/2 hour or so,
>>> and
>>>> snug them up one more time. Leak over for a very long time.
>>>> One caution, don't set that seal too deeply.
>>>> Jim Hupy
>>>> Salem, Oregon
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 2:06 PM Emery Stora via Gmclist >>> gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > The Original front seal behind the flywheel is an Onan 509-0040. (The
>>>> > rear seal is an Onan 509-0041). The 509-0040 crosses to a National
>>> 470162R
>>>> > or SKF11806.
>>>> > Those are a single lip Viton seal.
>>>> >
>>>> > I found a double lipped seal that should be much better than the
>>> original
>>>> > single lip. It is made of Nitrile rubber which is better than Viton.
>>>> > CR SKF 11801 (CR = Chicago Rawhide)
>>>> >
>>>> > I got it at a local bearing supplier but it was a Harwal box.
>>>> >
>>>> > 1.187 x 2.000 x .437
>>>> > Type: BDL Material: NBR
>>>> >
>>>> > BDL = Double Lipped
>>>> > NBR = Nitrile Rubber
>>>> >
>>>> > It fits right into the opening when tapped into place.
>>>> >
>>>> > To remove the old one I used a slide puller which had a screw on the
>> end
>>>> > that one normally puts into a hole in a dented piece of metal such as
>> a
>>>> > fender that you are trying to straighten.
>>>> > You could also try two self tapping metal screws and pull them out
>> with
>>> a
>>>> > couple of vice grips.
>>>> >
>>>> > I drilled a 3//32” hole into the seal and screwed in the slide hammer.
>>>> > (Depending on the size screw you may need a different drill hole).
>>>> > A couple of slides and the old seal pulled right out.
>>>> >
>>>> > I greased up the lips and the outer metal of the seal and then used a
>>>> > piece of 1-1/2” pipe (OD=1.9”) to drive in the new seal until it
>> seated.
>>>> >
>>>> > The double lipped seal would help prevent leakage at the seal.
>>> Especially
>>>> > if the old single lipped seal has worn a tiny groove into the shaft.
>>>> >
>>>> > While you have the flywheel off be sure to check your low oil pressure
>>>> > switch for leakage and also the hanging bracket behind the oil filter.
>>>> > That bracket has a gasket on both sides of it. You may have to cut
>> your
>>>> > own new gasket if that is leaking. Don't use cork.
>>>> >
>>>> > For a discussion on the difference between a Viton seal and a Nitrile
>>>> > Rubber seal see: http://www.easternseals.co.uk/viton-fkm-vs-nitrile/
>>>> >
>>>> > Emery Stora
>>>> > 77 Kingsley
>>>> > Frederick, CO
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > GMCnet mailing list
>>>> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>> >
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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