Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Oil filter (Wow, is this for real?)
| Oil filter [message #343914] |
Tue, 04 June 2019 13:28  |
tmsnyder
Messages: 151
Registered: January 2014
Karma: -9
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Wix 51061 ? Is this actually the filter they put on these? That seems ridiculously tiny. They are only about 3-5/8" diameter. I was expecting a truck size filter.
I just bought this a bit over a month ago and am just starting to dig into it. Starter was acting up, so taking that out I laughed out loud when I saw the oil filter. Is this a joke? Reminds me of the oil filter on my lawnmower!
I may have to put a remote filter with an actual decent size filter on my to-do list.
Todd Snyder, Buffalo NY
1976 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil filter [message #343923 is a reply to message #343921] |
Tue, 04 June 2019 16:55  |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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If you understand how the oil filter works and how the additional media
effect the system, you'll see that the larger filter will not do anything
negative.
It's your engine, do as you like .
On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 1:05 PM John Wright via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> The only filter that I have been using is the WIX 51049. Note that the
> NAPA Gold filters are made by WIX for NAPA The 51049 filter is about the
> longest filter that you can fit in there.
>
>
> JR Wright
>> On Jun 4, 2019, at 3:08 PM, David H. Jarvis via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> It only ran for 40 years with those small filters.
>> Now you are going to re-invent the wheel.
>>
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: Oil filter [message #343924 is a reply to message #343914] |
Tue, 04 June 2019 17:08 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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51258 Wix is all I run. I don't want a looonger filter sticking further down where it can be punctured by thrown truck tire debris shards that seem to be everywhere. I change mine long before it becomes restricted actually as they get dirtier they filter better, until they start to restrict flow.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil filter [message #343927 is a reply to message #343916] |
Tue, 04 June 2019 19:19 |
tmsnyder
Messages: 151
Registered: January 2014
Karma: -9
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Yes, 40 years and 108,000 miles and it's on its 2nd motor at least. Could be its 3rd or 4th, who knows? With a filter like that it wouldn't surprise me.
Explain to me how more filter area and more oil volume would be a bad thing?
Also considering the drivetrain was a compromise, a pretty good one but still a compromise, using an automobile setup b/c it was available. As an example, did they take the time/expense to get the final drive ratio correct? The answer is 'no', the gears are too long and they never took the time or investment to fix it. So why would anyone think that that is the perfect oil filter to go on there, and not just another compromise. It was on the car, so good enough.
Cars back then were built to last 7 years or so at best, we are now far past their design life. Oils so important to long engine life, and we aren't limited by the economics of trying to build one that's affordable, so why not put the best filter on that we can?
I had the oil changed when I bought it by some grease monkeys with a pit in the floor, and they've again reminded me why I never go to those places. They put on a 4006 filter, which seems to be a fuel filter of some sort! And it was so overtightened, I ended up putting a 3/4" ratchet and chain wrench around the filter to get the darn thing off.
What would be the potential downsides?
Todd Snyder, Buffalo NY
1976 Eleganza II
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| Re: Oil filter [message #343930 is a reply to message #343914] |
Tue, 04 June 2019 20:16 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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I don't even jack mine to do oil change. I have the front air dam so just inside drivers tire to pull plug. Reach in from behind passeger tire for filter. Very fast. It's greasing that takes a while to wipe off all the fittings and get under there. Filters only trap particles. If there are more particles than the filter can handle in 2-3k miles there are bigger issues.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Oil filter [message #343951 is a reply to message #343914] |
Wed, 05 June 2019 16:46 |
Scott Nutter
Messages: 782
Registered: January 2015
Location: Houston/San Diego
Karma: 4
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I also run the bigger filter. Wix 51049. And Amsoil 10-30 zrod oil. Another good idea is to put a magnet on the outside of the oil filter to hold in place any metal that might be circulating through the oil system.
Works for me.
Scott.
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, Dave Lenzi super duty mid axle disc brakes, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera installed MSD Atomic EFI
Houston, Texas
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil filter [message #343965 is a reply to message #343951] |
Thu, 06 June 2019 07:58 |
GMC.LES
Messages: 505
Registered: April 2014
Karma: -2
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Todd,
I urge you to do a search on oil filters here in this forum. The subject has previously been discussed in great detail.
Olds engines have the filter bypass incorporated into the filter mount. This means that the correct filter does not contain an internal bypass. Choosing the best filter setup for the job MIGHT make a difference. Choosing the wrong filter setup WILL make a difference. If you need more details as to why, do the search.
Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'
> On Jun 5, 2019, at 5:47 PM, Scott Nutter via Gmclist wrote:
>
> I also run the bigger filter. Wix 51049. And Amsoil 10-30 zrod oil. Another good idea is to put a magnet on the outside of the oil filter to hold in
> place any metal that might be circulating through the oil system.
> Works for me.
> Scott.
> --
> Scott Nutter
> 1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera
> installed MSD Atomic EFI
> Houston, Texas
>
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| Re: Oil filter [message #343968 is a reply to message #343914] |
Thu, 06 June 2019 08:26 |
bobby5832708
Messages: 237
Registered: November 2006
Location: Winter Springs FL
Karma: 3
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51061 Wix is NOT the proper filter, 51258 Wix is the correct one. If you want a larger filter then use a 51049 Wix, it's a longer version of the 51258.
I've been using the 51049 Wix for years on my original 455, it fits fine and in theory should be better because it holds more oil and has more filter area. Like I said, "in theory". Who knows if it actually made any real difference.
Bob Heller
2017 Winnebago 29VE
Winter Springs FL
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| Re: Oil filter [message #343972 is a reply to message #343914] |
Thu, 06 June 2019 08:55 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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And as to your original question is the "Wix 51061 what they originally put on these" No is the answer because GM used AC Delco. It would have been an AC PF30. That filter has been superseded by the PF24. The PF24 has the added anti drainback valve from the Buick application where filter sits horizontal. The wix number that crosses to is the 51258. (Or 51049 for longer body).
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil filter [message #343974 is a reply to message #343965] |
Thu, 06 June 2019 09:18 |
tmsnyder
Messages: 151
Registered: January 2014
Karma: -9
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Is it this thread? http://gmc.mybirdfeeder.net/GMCforum/index.php?t=msg&th=29910&prevloaded=1&rid=0&start=20
The gmc maintenance manual quoted in the thread says that the filter base bypass valve will open at 5.3-6.3 psi. That's the max pressure loss allowed across the filter media, not the max pressure on the filter, the max pressure drop allowed across its media. They don't want it to collapse or blow out etc. The rest of the oil is bypassed, no filtration, straight to the bearings. It probably happens frequently when the oil is cold, and definitely when the media in the tiny stock filter is plugged with solids.
A remote filter installed by an owner could also contain a bypass, as long as the bypass pressure is higher than 5.3-6.3psi. For instance a PH8a bypass is set at 12psi, therefore it would never get a chance to open unless the filter base bypass fails in a closed position, which is unlikely. The filter base bypass would open at 5.3-6.3 psi and that's the max pressure drop that the filter would ever see across its media. The filter bypass would do no harm, actually it would be added insurance in the unlikely event that the stock filter base bypass is somehow stuck closed.
The only downside I see is that the oil is being sent outside the engine in braided lines, and it is possible that the oil lines could fail and quickly dump all the oil on the ground. I've heard of it happening to people I know, from stock Chevy oil lines where they quick connect into stock oil coolers on their pickup trucks. Result was a ruined engine. And I had a braided line rub against the frame and leak on my personal vehicle, luckily I caught it in time. But if the lines are quality braided lines, and they are protected from rubbing on sharp edges, and the connections are quality, and they are inspected periodically, then there should be no problem. Also, with a loss of oil pressure, in the event that it did happen, it's not guaranteed to be immediately catastrophic. There's most likely going to be some time to shut it down.
Todd Snyder, Buffalo NY
1976 Eleganza II
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| Re: Oil filter [message #344066 is a reply to message #343972] |
Sun, 09 June 2019 08:21 |
tmsnyder
Messages: 151
Registered: January 2014
Karma: -9
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Senior Member |
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Thanks John, That's good info I needed. My shock at the small size filter was based on viewing the one on the coach, after having the oil changed just before my 2000 mile recovery trip from TX to NY. Again, they have cured me of ever letting anyone else change my oil besides me. The filter measured 3" tall and 3" in diameter. Tiny.
I picked up a STP S25 from Autozone, it cross references to the Wix 51049, and it's much bigger. Looks like almost 4" in diameter and 5" tall. The gasket is set way inside the diameter of the can, where the one I took off was right at the outside edge.
It seems like a decent size filter, I was just tripped up by the grease monkeys in the oil change pit.
Todd Snyder, Buffalo NY
1976 Eleganza II
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| Re: Oil filter [message #344073 is a reply to message #343972] |
Sun, 09 June 2019 10:07 |
mrgmc3
Messages: 210
Registered: September 2013
Location: W Washington
Karma: 2
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JohnL455 wrote on Thu, 06 June 2019 06:55And as to your original question is the "Wix 51061 what they originally put on these" No is the answer because GM used AC Delco. It would have been an AC PF30. That filter has been superseded by the PF24. The PF24 has the added anti drainback valve from the Buick application where filter sits horizontal. The wix number that crosses to is the 51258. (Or 51049 for longer body).
FYI the PF24 does not supersede the PF30 because the PF24 has the added drainback valve. The PF30 is superseded by the PF61 (smaller diameter). The PF24 is specified for Buick and Pontiac V8s.
Chris Geils - Twin Cities / W Wa
1978 26' Kingsley w/ very few mods; PD9040, aux trans cooler, one repaint in stock colors, R134a, Al rad, Alcoas, 54k mi
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil filter [message #344074 is a reply to message #344066] |
Sun, 09 June 2019 10:13 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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When my rt output shaft mtg plate came off in Texas and the oil filter got
severed , I lost oil.
However my Digi Panel had the oil pressure ignition switch that killed the
engine and saved the engine.
It would have been a long haul to CA.
Oh, I was going 75when it happened
On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 6:23 AM Todd Snyder via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Thanks John, That's good info I needed. My shock at the small size
> filter was based on viewing the one on the coach, after having the oil
> changed
> just before my 2000 mile recovery trip from TX to NY. Again, they have
> cured me of ever letting anyone else change my oil besides me. The filter
> measured 3" tall and 3" in diameter. Tiny.
>
> I picked up a STP S25 from Autozone, it cross references to the Wix 51049,
> and it's much bigger. Looks like almost 4" in diameter and 5" tall. The
> gasket is set way inside the diameter of the can, where the one I took off
> was right at the outside edge.
>
> It seems like a decent size filter, I was just tripped up by the grease
> monkeys in the oil change pit.
> --
> Todd Snyder, Buffalo NY
> 1976 Eleganza II
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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