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| Water heater element [message #342746] |
Sun, 21 April 2019 17:27  |
Deb
Messages: 349
Registered: October 2016
Location: Logan Lake, BC
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Back again  Last summer I fried the water heater when we ran out of water and the heater was left on (noob error!). There is a small aluminum plate bolted to the front of the tank (green wire (ground) attached to it) with what look like the high limit switches on my furnace at home - don't know what it is but I'll bet that it is something along those lines. Obviously generated a lot of heat - element trying to heat and empty tank.
I can't find anything about this in the binders of upgrades from my PO, but I do see that Jim K lists the same heater.
Anyone know exactly what that little panel is & does? And before I go and pull the element, what to test and what to be looking for on my meter. Perhaps the element was saved by the "whatever" and that is what needs replacing. Posted pictures...
Deb McWade
Logan Lake, BC, CAN
GMC Alumnus
It's Bigger on the Inside!
[Updated on: Sun, 21 April 2019 17:29] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water heater element [message #342748 is a reply to message #342746] |
Sun, 21 April 2019 18:12  |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
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Are you talking about the thermostat? Send me a picture and I’ll tell you.
Emery Stora
> On Apr 21, 2019, at 4:27 PM, Deb McWade via Gmclist wrote:
>
> Back again :) Last summer I fried the water heater when we ran out of water and the heater was left on (noob error!). There is a small aluminum
> plate bolted to the front of the tank (green wire (ground) attached to it) with what look like the high limit switches on my furnace at home - don't
> know what it is but I'll bet that it is something along those lines. Obviously generated a lot of heat - element trying to heat and empty tank.
>
> I can't find anything about this in the binders of upgrades from my PO, but I do see that Jim K lists the same heater.
>
> Anyone know exactly what that little panel is & does? And before I go and pull the element, what to test and what to be looking for on my meter.
> Perhaps the element was saved by the "whatever" and that is what needs replacing. Posted pictures...
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/7214/medium/IMG_2495.jpg
> --
> Deb McWade
> Logan Lake, BC, CAN
> "Li'l Sister"
> '77 Kingsley, 403, EBL EFI;
> TZE167V101404
> It's Bigger on the Inside!
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water heater element [message #342749 is a reply to message #342748] |
Sun, 21 April 2019 18:26 |
Deb
Messages: 349
Registered: October 2016
Location: Logan Lake, BC
Karma: 2
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emerystora wrote on Sun, 21 April 2019 16:12Are you talking about the thermostat? Send me a picture and I'll tell you.
Emery Stora
Hi Emory. It's the first picture there in the post. I can't see it being a thermostat - it doesn't contact the inside of the tank at all so would have no way of registering water temp. It's just attached there onto the front of the tank with a couple of nuts and washers where the ground wire attaches. (second photo)
Maybe it doesn't come through on your end. I'll PM you with a couple of pictures. Deb
Deb McWade
Logan Lake, BC, CAN
GMC Alumnus
It's Bigger on the Inside!
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water heater element [message #342751 is a reply to message #342748] |
Sun, 21 April 2019 18:55 |
Deb
Messages: 349
Registered: October 2016
Location: Logan Lake, BC
Karma: 2
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emerystora wrote on Sun, 21 April 2019 16:12Are you talking about the thermostat? Send me a picture and I'll tell you.
Emery Stora
> On Apr 21, 2019, at 4:27 PM, Deb McWade via Gmclist wrote:
>
> Back again Last summer I fried the water heater when we ran out of water and the heater was left on (noob error!). There is a small aluminum
> plate bolted to the front of the tank (green wire (ground) attached to it) with what look like the high limit switches on my furnace at home - don't
> know what it is but I'll bet that it is something along those lines. Obviously generated a lot of heat - element trying to heat and empty tank.
>
> I can't find anything about this in the binders of upgrades from my PO, but I do see that Jim K lists the same heater.
>
> Anyone know exactly what that little panel is & does? And before I go and pull the element, what to test and what to be looking for on my meter.
> Perhaps the element was saved by the "whatever" and that is what needs replacing. Posted pictures...
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/7214/medium/IMG_2495.jpg
> --
> Deb McWade
> Logan Lake, BC, CAN
> "Li'l Sister"
> '77 Kingsley, 403, EBL EFI;
> TZE167V101404
> It's Bigger on the Inside!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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Actually, Emory, I think you are right! I google imaged some RV heater thermostats and this one from Suburban looks basically identical.
https://pdxrvwholesale.com/products/suburban-water-heater-120v-thermostat-limit-switch-130-232306
So... I wonder if the thermostat frying may have saved the element, or did I fry both
Deb McWade
Logan Lake, BC, CAN
GMC Alumnus
It's Bigger on the Inside!
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water heater element [message #342755 is a reply to message #342751] |
Sun, 21 April 2019 19:34 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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I would expect that you burnt out the heating element. You can easily test the thermostat. They should pass current until they get hot and open the circuit. A VOM set on resistance (ohms)or a test light should allow you to test them.
Emery Stora
> On Apr 21, 2019, at 5:55 PM, Deb McWade via Gmclist wrote:
>
> emerystora wrote on Sun, 21 April 2019 16:12
>> Are you talking about the thermostat? Send me a picture and I'll tell you.
>>
>> Emery Stora
>>
>>> On Apr 21, 2019, at 4:27 PM, Deb McWade via Gmclist wrote:
>>>
>>> Back again :) Last summer I fried the water heater when we ran out of water and the heater was left on (noob error!). There is a small
>>> aluminum
>>> plate bolted to the front of the tank (green wire (ground) attached to it) with what look like the high limit switches on my furnace at home
>>> - don't
>>> know what it is but I'll bet that it is something along those lines. Obviously generated a lot of heat - element trying to heat and empty
>>> tank.
>>>
>>> I can't find anything about this in the binders of upgrades from my PO, but I do see that Jim K lists the same heater.
>>>
>>> Anyone know exactly what that little panel is & does? And before I go and pull the element, what to test and what to be looking for on my
>>> meter.
>>> Perhaps the element was saved by the "whatever" and that is what needs replacing. Posted pictures...
>>>
>>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/7214/medium/IMG_2495.jpg
>>> --
>>> Deb McWade
>>> Logan Lake, BC, CAN
>>> "Li'l Sister"
>>> '77 Kingsley, 403, EBL EFI;
>>> TZE167V101404
>>> It's Bigger on the Inside!
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> Actually, Emory, I think you are right! I google imaged some RV heater thermostats and this one from Suburban looks basically identical.
> https://pdxrvwholesale.com/products/suburban-water-heater-120v-thermostat-limit-switch-130-232306
> So... I wonder if the thermostat frying may have saved the element, or did I fry both :)
>
> --
> Deb McWade
> Logan Lake, BC, CAN
> "Li'l Sister"
> '77 Kingsley, 403, EBL EFI;
> TZE167V101404
> It's Bigger on the Inside!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water heater element [message #342757 is a reply to message #342755] |
Sun, 21 April 2019 19:59 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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It appears your heating element shorted out as it failed and melted the wires and damaged the 2 klixon thermostats . You will need to replace the heating element and the 2 klixon thermostats also the damaged wires. The good news all these parts are cheep.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water heater element [message #342758 is a reply to message #342757] |
Sun, 21 April 2019 20:12 |
Deb
Messages: 349
Registered: October 2016
Location: Logan Lake, BC
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Well those thermostats are definitely done - crispy! I checked the element itself and got 7.2 ohms resistance! Hard to believe, but it should be more I think. Not certain what W/V is in there right now. Couldn't get my head twisted around upside down to read the specs on it. But either way, I'm going to get a new element and 2 new thermostats. Bruce I think you're right about one being higher temp. One is 32-6 marking and the other is a 62-6. Now not sure which is which, but the Suburban one is a 120 and it's 62-6 on both units.
So thermostats, a 4000W/240V element and a timer switch!! My job for the week. I'll pull the old one first before I order a new element. Tomorrow.....
Thanks all!
Deb McWade
Logan Lake, BC, CAN
GMC Alumnus
It's Bigger on the Inside!
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water heater element [message #342760 is a reply to message #342754] |
Sun, 21 April 2019 20:23 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Actually the two should be the same temperature setting. The reason for two in series is because if there were only one and it failed in a closed position it could cause the heater to overheat to the point of exploding.
With two in series if one fails in the closed position they the other should still open the circuit when the temperature is reached. One should inspect your system periodically to be sure to catch the fact that one has failed.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
> On Apr 21, 2019, at 6:28 PM, Bruce Hislop via Gmclist wrote:
>
> Deb,
> It appears to me to be two fixed temperature thermostats mounted on the front of the tank. The physical mounting onto the tank conducts the heat to
> the thermostats.
>
> They are wired in series so i'm guessing one sets the normal shut-off temperature of say 120F. The second one will be a backup in case the first one
> fails maybe set to 140-150F. Most will have an adjustable thermostat.
>
> Be careful working near that thing, the 120V connections are exposed at the heater element.
>
> Your element is likely fried because it would over-heat before the thermal conduction could trip the thermostats. A trick to help prevent this is to
> install a wind-up timer in place of the water-heater switch. Simply crank it up to 45 minutes or so just before you need hot water. My heater can
> give me hot water in about 15-20 minutes. The timer then shuts off the power after the set period saving you from remembering to shut it off. You
> soon remember to turn on the timer after 1 or 2 cold showers.
>
> BTW, you can replace the heater element with a more robust 240 Volt 4Kw element. When operated at 120 volts, it will consume only 1Kw.
>
> --
> Bruce Hislop
> ON Canada
> 77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.1 ton front end
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
> My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water heater element [message #342761 is a reply to message #342758] |
Sun, 21 April 2019 22:19 |
Stu Rasmussen
Messages: 130
Registered: January 2019
Location: Silverton, OR
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If you have 7.2 ohms resistance that's exactly right for a 2,000 watt
120 volt element - so the element may not be toast just yet.
One other element failure mode is leakage to ground - measure either
heater connection to ground and you should see infinite resistance or
very close to it.
Measuring 7.2 ohms across the element and no leakage to ground the
element is probably fine and something else caused your thermostats to
release their magic smoke.
Regarding the 4Kw 240 volt element, keep in mind that will be 1,000
watts at 120 volts or 3140 BTU/hour of water heating. In other words,
much slower (2x) recovery time.
Stu Rasmussen W7QJ
Silverton, Oregon
'74 gutted Eleganza
On 4/21/2019 6:12 PM, Deb McWade via Gmclist wrote:
> Well those thermostats are definitely done - crispy! I checked the element itself and got 7.2 ohms resistance! Hard to believe, but it should be
> more I think. Not certain what W/V is in there right now. Couldn't get my head twisted around upside down to read the specs on it. But either way,
> I'm going to get a new element and 2 new thermostats. Bruce I think you're right about one being higher temp. One is 32-6 marking and the other is a
> 62-6. Now not sure which is which, but the Suburban one is a 120 and it's 62-6 on both units.
>
> So thermostats, a 4000W/240V element and a timer switch!! My job for the week. I'll pull the old one first before I order a new element.
> Tomorrow.....
>
> Thanks all!
>
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Stu Rasmussen W7QJ
Silverton, OR
'77 Birchaven
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| Re: Water heater element [message #342762 is a reply to message #342746] |
Mon, 22 April 2019 01:11 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Home Depot will definitely have the element and should have the thermostat. 1000 watts is a good consumption rate. I think that is what the OEM one was. If you are ever plugged into a 120 volt 15 amp shore power feed, a 2000 watt element will trip the breaker and you will have no power for hot water or anything else 120 volt at all. When people plug in at my hangar that is what they get - 120 volts at 15 amps.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Water heater element [message #342765 is a reply to message #342746] |
Mon, 22 April 2019 07:14 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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The trailer parts place in Gainesville had a selection of elements, I got a 1200 Watt one for the last coach. All my coaches have engine heat for the hot water. If I arrive after dark, in the morning there's still enough hot water to cook.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Water heater element [message #342773 is a reply to message #342762] |
Mon, 22 April 2019 11:34 |
Deb
Messages: 349
Registered: October 2016
Location: Logan Lake, BC
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Ken Burton wrote on Sun, 21 April 2019 23:11Home Depot will definitely have the element and should have the thermostat. 1000 watts is a good consumption rate. I think that is what the OEM one was. If you are ever plugged into a 120 volt 15 amp shore power feed, a 2000 watt element will trip the breaker and you will have no power for hot water or anything else 120 volt at all. When people plug in at my hangar that is what they get - 120 volts at 15 amps.
Haven't got out with the camera to get a shot of what's in there yet (print is upside down and backwards, and I'm not that limber anymore!), but if it's a 2000W, then I guess the reason I didn't trip your breaker last summer was because I had already fried everything in N. Dakota!  
Now, I would think that if it's fried, it's fried. Either working or not - like a light bulb? I tested and got nothing when I checked for a short (connected post to housing) and a consistent 7.0 - 7.2 from post to post. Can I get "half" the resistance I should expect from a 1000W element? I don't think so, but I defer to those who understand this without having to google everything, like I do  Either way, I think I will replace with a 4K/240 element to get the original amperage but a more robust build.
I did note that when I disconnected everything (with little bits of crispy black insulation falling off!) one of the connectors (the little fork connector to the element) was only under by one fork. So it didn't have good contact there. May have been enough when everything was hunky dory, but when the tank ran dry it was too much. Honestly, not one of the things I had looked at before, so I don't know what kind of shape everything was in when we took off.
Add to the list of things to check before take-off!
Follow-up. Managed to get the phone in there for a picture (no way to get at it otherwise) & it is indeed a 2000W/120V element. I have a 4K/240V on order (Home Depot doesn't have a 4K - 4500, 5500, 3500 etc, but no 4000) from Amazon. Here in 3 days.
Deb McWade
Logan Lake, BC, CAN
GMC Alumnus
It's Bigger on the Inside!
[Updated on: Mon, 22 April 2019 13:25] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Water heater element [message #342782 is a reply to message #342773] |
Mon, 22 April 2019 14:52 |
Deb
Messages: 349
Registered: October 2016
Location: Logan Lake, BC
Karma: 2
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Found the correct thermostat and it's on order. Thanks to Tom for his help on this too.
You folks have walked me through another one and given me a bit more education!
Gotta love the GMC community. 👍
Deb McWade
Logan Lake, BC, CAN
GMC Alumnus
It's Bigger on the Inside!
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