Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Shoulder Belts
| Shoulder Belts [message #342580] |
Tue, 16 April 2019 20:58  |
Fipp
Messages: 26
Registered: December 2017
Location: Aledo, Illinois
Karma: -1
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Junior Member |
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In 2009 our 1976 Royale previous Owner updated the front seats to the popular captains chairs that I believe came out of a minivan that was all the rage at the time. When we purchased the Royale a few years ago, the first thing my wife and I commented on was the lack of a shoulder harness and the inadequacy of the lap belt. In light of the recent tradgedy that has befallen all of us, once again, I revert to the lack of a shoulder harness in my Royale. I believe the lap belt is actually original. Is there a modification available to either tie it into the sidewall or is there a seat that safely encompasses a shoulder harness. In my humble opinion, one cannot remain conscious in a hard frontal collision with only a lap belt. Is anything available? Ideas? comments?
Scott D. Fippinger
Aledo, Illinois
1976 Royale
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| Re: Shoulder Belts [message #342581 is a reply to message #342580] |
Tue, 16 April 2019 21:26  |
Nicholls
Messages: 36
Registered: January 2008
Location: Pensacola, FL
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Having rolled a GMC and ending up with the right side and roof gone, I cannot recommend a belt which attaches to the side wall. My wife and I were strapped on with OEM belts and came through unscathed. A seat such as some pick ups have that incorporate a lap belt into the seat itself maybe your answer. Mine was not a frontal collision.
John Nicholls,
78 Royale w/455
Pensacola, FL
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| Re: Shoulder Belts [message #342588 is a reply to message #342580] |
Tue, 16 April 2019 23:06 |
GatsbysCruise
Messages: 261
Registered: January 2017
Location: Waukegan, Illinois
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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I have been thinking about a shoulder belt for a couple years now.
I already have the seatbelt attached, but now shoulder belt.
I seem to remember a car that I had, I think I had, back in the 70's ish, it had some kind of dual clasp, the seat belt went into on latch and the shoulder belt went into the other. This device clipped into the normal seat belt clip. I can't for the life of me remember where I saw it nor can I find it.
As was mentioned, the GMC's tend to lose the top half if rolled. I have seen a couple of pics that showed this. My thinking has been to consider some kind of attachment for the belt below the window line and the belt would go up to the top of the seat, across the person and to the seat belt device, IF WE CAN EVER FIND IT OR MAKE IT!
I did consider attaching at the floor level on the opposite side, across the seat to the top, across the person to the latch. But I think you lose the reason for having the shoulder belt with that arrangement, especially if the seat breaks loose.
So that is why I still do not have a shoulder harness, yet. I am open to suggestions. I am almost wondering if a roll bar has to be installed for such a belt. I know we are balancing safety over reason with this particular vehicle. I believe the GMC was not engineered for a shoulder belt attachement so one may have to be made up. Maybe have to use the seat belt and add a belt that is actually wrapped around the seat back on a diagnal, and just clipped in front of you. This of course depends on the seat NOT tearing free from the floor, but may be the only option.
If you get any ideas, post them here as I am interested as well.
slc
GatsbysCruise. \
74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO - UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
[Updated on: Tue, 16 April 2019 23:09] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Shoulder Belts [message #342590 is a reply to message #342588] |
Tue, 16 April 2019 23:43 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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I hear what John experienced when his coach was involved in the accident.
If your interested, we stock a Shoulder harness system kit.
Rick Flanagan, a professional mechanical designer came up with the unit for
our coaches several years ago.
We have supplied over 50 units in various colors.
I will be glad to explain the system along with Rick F.
On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 9:07 PM slc via Gmclist
wrote:
> I have been thinking about a shoulder belt for a couple years now.
> I already have the seatbelt attached, but now shoulder belt.
>
> I seem to remember a car that I had, I think I had, back in the 70's ish,
> it had some kind of dual clasp, the seat belt went into on latch and the
> shoulder belt went into the other. This device clipped into the normal
> seat belt clip. I can't for the life of me remember where I saw it nor can
> I
> find it.
>
> As was mentioned, the GMC's tend to lose the top half if rolled. I have
> seen a couple of pics that showed this. My thinking has been to consider
> some kind of attachment for the belt below the window line and the belt
> would go up to the top of the seat, across the person and to the seat belt
> device, IF WE CAN EVER FIND IT OR MAKE IT!
>
> I did consider attaching at the floor level on the opposite side, across
> the seat to the top, across the person to the latch. But I think you lose
> the reason for having the shoulder belt with that arrangement, especially
> if the seat breaks loose.
>
> So that is why I still do not have a shoulder harness, yet. I am open to
> suggestions. I am almost wondering if a roll bar has to be installed for
> such a belt. I know we are balancing safety over reason with this
> particular vehicle. I believe the GMC was not engineered for a shoulder
> belt
> attachement so one may have to be made up. Maybe have to use the seat
> belt and add a belt that is actually wrapped around the seat back and just
> clipped in front of you. This of course depends on the seat NOT tearing
> free from the floor, but may be the only option.
>
> If you get any ideas, post them here as I am interested as well.
>
> slc
> --
> GatsbysCruise. \
> 74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
> Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS
> FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO -
> UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Shoulder Belts [message #342593 is a reply to message #342588] |
Wed, 17 April 2019 06:45 |
Dave Stragand
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2017
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I know GMs of the late 60’s into early 70’s has that kind of two belt system. You had two separate buckles: one lap belt and one for the shoulder belt. It wasn’t the best solution but it did meet federal requirements.
Of course, a 5-point racing harness in a captain’s chair would do the job and then some, but my gut tells me that the integrated shoulder belts on some newer seats coupled with a reinforced base would be the best option.
> On Apr 17, 2019, at 12:07 AM, slc via Gmclist wrote:
>
> I have been thinking about a shoulder belt for a couple years now.
> I already have the seatbelt attached, but now shoulder belt.
>
> I seem to remember a car that I had, I think I had, back in the 70's ish, it had some kind of dual clasp, the seat belt went into on latch and the
> shoulder belt went into the other. This device clipped into the normal seat belt clip. I can't for the life of me remember where I saw it nor can I
> find it.
>
> As was mentioned, the GMC's tend to lose the top half if rolled. I have seen a couple of pics that showed this. My thinking has been to consider
> some kind of attachment for the belt below the window line and the belt would go up to the top of the seat, across the person and to the seat belt
> device, IF WE CAN EVER FIND IT OR MAKE IT!
>
> I did consider attaching at the floor level on the opposite side, across the seat to the top, across the person to the latch. But I think you lose
> the reason for having the shoulder belt with that arrangement, especially if the seat breaks loose.
>
> So that is why I still do not have a shoulder harness, yet. I am open to suggestions. I am almost wondering if a roll bar has to be installed for
> such a belt. I know we are balancing safety over reason with this particular vehicle. I believe the GMC was not engineered for a shoulder belt
> attachement so one may have to be made up. Maybe have to use the seat belt and add a belt that is actually wrapped around the seat back and just
> clipped in front of you. This of course depends on the seat NOT tearing free from the floor, but may be the only option.
>
> If you get any ideas, post them here as I am interested as well.
>
> slc
> --
> GatsbysCruise. \
> 74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
> Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO -
> UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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1978 Transmode (403)
Pittsburgh, PA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Shoulder Belts [message #342595 is a reply to message #342593] |
Wed, 17 April 2019 07:35 |
johnd01
Messages: 354
Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Dave, you would probably have to reinforce the deck where the seat mounts
as well.
On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 4:46 AM Dave Stragand via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> I know GMs of the late 60’s into early 70’s has that kind of two belt
> system. You had two separate buckles: one lap belt and one for the
> shoulder belt. It wasn’t the best solution but it did meet federal
> requirements.
>
> Of course, a 5-point racing harness in a captain’s chair would do the job
> and then some, but my gut tells me that the integrated shoulder belts on
> some newer seats coupled with a reinforced base would be the best option.
>
>> On Apr 17, 2019, at 12:07 AM, slc via Gmclist
> wrote:
>>
>> I have been thinking about a shoulder belt for a couple years now.
>> I already have the seatbelt attached, but now shoulder belt.
>>
>> I seem to remember a car that I had, I think I had, back in the 70's
> ish, it had some kind of dual clasp, the seat belt went into on latch and
> the
>> shoulder belt went into the other. This device clipped into the normal
> seat belt clip. I can't for the life of me remember where I saw it nor can
> I
>> find it.
>>
>> As was mentioned, the GMC's tend to lose the top half if rolled. I have
> seen a couple of pics that showed this. My thinking has been to consider
>> some kind of attachment for the belt below the window line and the belt
> would go up to the top of the seat, across the person and to the seat belt
>> device, IF WE CAN EVER FIND IT OR MAKE IT!
>>
>> I did consider attaching at the floor level on the opposite side, across
> the seat to the top, across the person to the latch. But I think you lose
>> the reason for having the shoulder belt with that arrangement,
> especially if the seat breaks loose.
>>
>> So that is why I still do not have a shoulder harness, yet. I am open
> to suggestions. I am almost wondering if a roll bar has to be installed for
>> such a belt. I know we are balancing safety over reason with this
> particular vehicle. I believe the GMC was not engineered for a shoulder
> belt
>> attachement so one may have to be made up. Maybe have to use the seat
> belt and add a belt that is actually wrapped around the seat back and just
>> clipped in front of you. This of course depends on the seat NOT tearing
> free from the floor, but may be the only option.
>>
>> If you get any ideas, post them here as I am interested as well.
>>
>> slc
>> --
>> GatsbysCruise. \
>> 74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
>> Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS
> FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO -
>> UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
*John Phillips*
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Johnd01
John Phillips
Avion A2600 TZE064V101164
Rancho Cordova, CA (Sacramento)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Shoulder Belts [message #342596 is a reply to message #342595] |
Wed, 17 April 2019 08:48 |
Dave Stragand
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2017
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I am not an engineer, but I can duplicate what I see elsewhere. On most vehicles, the seatbelts are fastened into sheet metal on the floor. Aftermarket seatbelts usually just have a 3 inch washer under the bolt through the sheet metal floor. As long as the pedestal was structurally sound, I would imagine that reinforcing the plywood floor with a piece of sheet metal would spread the load substantially across the plywood. To me, the question is whether the pedestal could handle the additional force generated by having the shoulder belt.
> On Apr 17, 2019, at 8:30 AM, John Phillips via Gmclist wrote:
>
> Dave, you would probably have to reinforce the deck where the seat mounts
> as well.
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1978 Transmode (403)
Pittsburgh, PA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Shoulder Belts [message #342597 is a reply to message #342595] |
Wed, 17 April 2019 08:46 |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
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Senior Member |
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Flipp, do you think you could provide a touch more information about
yourself and your ship? How about a sig attachment like most others!
On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 9:30 AM John Phillips via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Dave, you would probably have to reinforce the deck where the seat mounts
> as well.
>
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 4:46 AM Dave Stragand via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> I know GMs of the late 60’s into early 70’s has that kind of two belt
>> system. You had two separate buckles: one lap belt and one for the
>> shoulder belt. It wasn’t the best solution but it did meet federal
>> requirements.
>>
>> Of course, a 5-point racing harness in a captain’s chair would do the job
>> and then some, but my gut tells me that the integrated shoulder belts on
>> some newer seats coupled with a reinforced base would be the best option.
>>
>>> On Apr 17, 2019, at 12:07 AM, slc via Gmclist >
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have been thinking about a shoulder belt for a couple years now.
>>> I already have the seatbelt attached, but now shoulder belt.
>>>
>>> I seem to remember a car that I had, I think I had, back in the 70's
>> ish, it had some kind of dual clasp, the seat belt went into on latch and
>> the
>>> shoulder belt went into the other. This device clipped into the normal
>> seat belt clip. I can't for the life of me remember where I saw it nor
> can
>> I
>>> find it.
>>>
>>> As was mentioned, the GMC's tend to lose the top half if rolled. I
> have
>> seen a couple of pics that showed this. My thinking has been to consider
>>> some kind of attachment for the belt below the window line and the belt
>> would go up to the top of the seat, across the person and to the seat
> belt
>>> device, IF WE CAN EVER FIND IT OR MAKE IT!
>>>
>>> I did consider attaching at the floor level on the opposite side,
> across
>> the seat to the top, across the person to the latch. But I think you
> lose
>>> the reason for having the shoulder belt with that arrangement,
>> especially if the seat breaks loose.
>>>
>>> So that is why I still do not have a shoulder harness, yet. I am open
>> to suggestions. I am almost wondering if a roll bar has to be installed
> for
>>> such a belt. I know we are balancing safety over reason with this
>> particular vehicle. I believe the GMC was not engineered for a shoulder
>> belt
>>> attachement so one may have to be made up. Maybe have to use the seat
>> belt and add a belt that is actually wrapped around the seat back and
> just
>>> clipped in front of you. This of course depends on the seat NOT
> tearing
>> free from the floor, but may be the only option.
>>>
>>> If you get any ideas, post them here as I am interested as well.
>>>
>>> slc
>>> --
>>> GatsbysCruise. \
>>> 74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
>>> Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS
>> FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU
> STUDIO -
>>> UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
> --
>
> *John Phillips*
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
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| Re: Shoulder Belts [message #342599 is a reply to message #342580] |
Wed, 17 April 2019 10:38 |
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Tom Newell
Messages: 25
Registered: August 2017
Location: Los Angeles, California
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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"That's what I was thinking. A big square of 16 or 18 gauge sheet metal (stainless?) under the floor to help spread the load over a larger area."
The reinforcements for safety belt anchor points are closer to 1/8" plate. And, this is very important, the edges should be rounded off, either through stock removal or through bends (the way stock installations do). If the edge is sharp, it will do an excellent job of slicing through the floor under the types of loads present in a crash. I would surmise that for plywood, a rather larger radius bend on a rather larger plate would be the most effective.
By the way, a boat fabric vendor I use just did testing on stitch patterns for webbing. The published breaking strength for seat belt webbing is 4720 lbs. Mostly, actual testing showed breakage at a lower force (still above 4000 lbs.) and the webbing broke before the stitches for bar tacks and a W pattern. For those interested: https://www.sailrite.com/How-to-Sew-Webbing-Loops
Tom Newell
San Pedro, California
Proud Citizen of
Los Angeles, California
Founded 1781 as
El Pueblo de la Reyna de los Angeles,
Alta California
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| Re: [GMCnet] Shoulder Belts [message #342602 is a reply to message #342597] |
Wed, 17 April 2019 11:20 |
johnd01
Messages: 354
Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Look at the torque with the shoulder belt attached to the seat back. If the
attachment point is 4 times the distance as the length between the mount
front and the rear bolts then for every 1000 lbs of belt force there will
be 4000 lbs of upward force on the rear bolts and 4000 lbs of downforce on
the base plate front edge. 1000 lbs is not a lot for a shoulder belt in a
frontal accident. The seat back hinge needs to be able to take the torque
as well.
John Phillips
75 Avion VIN A26000
Retired
Rancho Cordova, CA 95670
On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 8:49 AM Kingsley Coach via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Flipp, do you think you could provide a touch more information about
> yourself and your ship? How about a sig attachment like most others!
>
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 9:30 AM John Phillips via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Dave, you would probably have to reinforce the deck where the seat mounts
>> as well.
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 4:46 AM Dave Stragand via Gmclist > gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I know GMs of the late 60’s into early 70’s has that kind of two belt
>>> system. You had two separate buckles: one lap belt and one for the
>>> shoulder belt. It wasn’t the best solution but it did meet federal
>>> requirements.
>>>
>>> Of course, a 5-point racing harness in a captain’s chair would do the
> job
>>> and then some, but my gut tells me that the integrated shoulder belts
> on
>>> some newer seats coupled with a reinforced base would be the best
> option.
>>>
>>>> On Apr 17, 2019, at 12:07 AM, slc via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have been thinking about a shoulder belt for a couple years now.
>>>> I already have the seatbelt attached, but now shoulder belt.
>>>>
>>>> I seem to remember a car that I had, I think I had, back in the 70's
>>> ish, it had some kind of dual clasp, the seat belt went into on latch
> and
>>> the
>>>> shoulder belt went into the other. This device clipped into the
> normal
>>> seat belt clip. I can't for the life of me remember where I saw it nor
>> can
>>> I
>>>> find it.
>>>>
>>>> As was mentioned, the GMC's tend to lose the top half if rolled. I
>> have
>>> seen a couple of pics that showed this. My thinking has been to
> consider
>>>> some kind of attachment for the belt below the window line and the
> belt
>>> would go up to the top of the seat, across the person and to the seat
>> belt
>>>> device, IF WE CAN EVER FIND IT OR MAKE IT!
>>>>
>>>> I did consider attaching at the floor level on the opposite side,
>> across
>>> the seat to the top, across the person to the latch. But I think you
>> lose
>>>> the reason for having the shoulder belt with that arrangement,
>>> especially if the seat breaks loose.
>>>>
>>>> So that is why I still do not have a shoulder harness, yet. I am
> open
>>> to suggestions. I am almost wondering if a roll bar has to be
> installed
>> for
>>>> such a belt. I know we are balancing safety over reason with this
>>> particular vehicle. I believe the GMC was not engineered for a
> shoulder
>>> belt
>>>> attachement so one may have to be made up. Maybe have to use the
> seat
>>> belt and add a belt that is actually wrapped around the seat back and
>> just
>>>> clipped in front of you. This of course depends on the seat NOT
>> tearing
>>> free from the floor, but may be the only option.
>>>>
>>>> If you get any ideas, post them here as I am interested as well.
>>>>
>>>> slc
>>>> --
>>>> GatsbysCruise. \
>>>> 74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
>>>> Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS
>>> FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU
>> STUDIO -
>>>> UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *John Phillips*
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
> --
> Michael Beaton
> 1977 Kingsley 26-11
> 1977 Eleganza II 26-3
> Antigonish, NS
>
> Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
*John Phillips*
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Johnd01
John Phillips
Avion A2600 TZE064V101164
Rancho Cordova, CA (Sacramento)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Shoulder Belts [message #342619 is a reply to message #342602] |
Wed, 17 April 2019 18:15 |
Mike Kelley
Messages: 467
Registered: February 2017
Karma: -2
|
Senior Member |
|
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If I were fabbing up base plates to spread the load, I would use 1/8” steel plates (w/ rounded edges) under the seats and where the belts attach. Take it from an old sheet metal contractor, 16 or 18 gauge will tear pretty quickly under the extreme load of an accident.
Just my thoughts!
Mike/The Corvair a holic
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 17, 2019, at 11:20 AM, John Phillips via Gmclist wrote:
>
> Look at the torque with the shoulder belt attached to the seat back. If the
> attachment point is 4 times the distance as the length between the mount
> front and the rear bolts then for every 1000 lbs of belt force there will
> be 4000 lbs of upward force on the rear bolts and 4000 lbs of downforce on
> the base plate front edge. 1000 lbs is not a lot for a shoulder belt in a
> frontal accident. The seat back hinge needs to be able to take the torque
> as well.
> John Phillips
> 75 Avion VIN A26000
> Retired
> Rancho Cordova, CA 95670
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 8:49 AM Kingsley Coach via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Flipp, do you think you could provide a touch more information about
>> yourself and your ship? How about a sig attachment like most others!
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 9:30 AM John Phillips via Gmclist > gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Dave, you would probably have to reinforce the deck where the seat mounts
>>> as well.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 4:46 AM Dave Stragand via Gmclist >> gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I know GMs of the late 60’s into early 70’s has that kind of two belt
>>>> system. You had two separate buckles: one lap belt and one for the
>>>> shoulder belt. It wasn’t the best solution but it did meet federal
>>>> requirements.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, a 5-point racing harness in a captain’s chair would do the
>> job
>>>> and then some, but my gut tells me that the integrated shoulder belts
>> on
>>>> some newer seats coupled with a reinforced base would be the best
>> option.
>>>>
>>>> > On Apr 17, 2019, at 12:07 AM, slc via Gmclist > gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > I have been thinking about a shoulder belt for a couple years now.
>>>> > I already have the seatbelt attached, but now shoulder belt.
>>>> >
>>>> > I seem to remember a car that I had, I think I had, back in the 70's
>>>> ish, it had some kind of dual clasp, the seat belt went into on latch
>> and
>>>> the
>>>> > shoulder belt went into the other. This device clipped into the
>> normal
>>>> seat belt clip. I can't for the life of me remember where I saw it nor
>>> can
>>>> I
>>>> > find it.
>>>> >
>>>> > As was mentioned, the GMC's tend to lose the top half if rolled. I
>>> have
>>>> seen a couple of pics that showed this. My thinking has been to
>> consider
>>>> > some kind of attachment for the belt below the window line and the
>> belt
>>>> would go up to the top of the seat, across the person and to the seat
>>> belt
>>>> > device, IF WE CAN EVER FIND IT OR MAKE IT!
>>>> >
>>>> > I did consider attaching at the floor level on the opposite side,
>>> across
>>>> the seat to the top, across the person to the latch. But I think you
>>> lose
>>>> > the reason for having the shoulder belt with that arrangement,
>>>> especially if the seat breaks loose.
>>>> >
>>>> > So that is why I still do not have a shoulder harness, yet. I am
>> open
>>>> to suggestions. I am almost wondering if a roll bar has to be
>> installed
>>> for
>>>> > such a belt. I know we are balancing safety over reason with this
>>>> particular vehicle. I believe the GMC was not engineered for a
>> shoulder
>>>> belt
>>>> > attachement so one may have to be made up. Maybe have to use the
>> seat
>>>> belt and add a belt that is actually wrapped around the seat back and
>>> just
>>>> > clipped in front of you. This of course depends on the seat NOT
>>> tearing
>>>> free from the floor, but may be the only option.
>>>> >
>>>> > If you get any ideas, post them here as I am interested as well.
>>>> >
>>>> > slc
>>>> > --
>>>> > GatsbysCruise. \
>>>> > 74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
>>>> > Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS
>>>> FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU
>>> STUDIO -
>>>> > UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > GMCnet mailing list
>>>> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *John Phillips*
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Beaton
>> 1977 Kingsley 26-11
>> 1977 Eleganza II 26-3
>> Antigonish, NS
>>
>> Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
> --
>
> *John Phillips*
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Shoulder Belts [message #342622 is a reply to message #342619] |
Wed, 17 April 2019 18:37 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Words to the wise. "The absolute best form of fire fighting is prevention."
Same applies to safety equipment. Including restraints. As an old
slingshot dragster pilot, we started out with stuff from WW 2 aircraft. As
the sport grew, companies like Bell and Deist evolved. As speeds rose,
highly stressed parts and assemblies failed and severe injuries and deaths
occurred more frequently, the products had to improve, and they did.
Particularly roll cages and restraints. Guys now walk away from crashes
that would have killed them 10 years earlier. A modern funny car is
probably the most dangerous race vehicle there is on the planet. Yet, they
are very safe due to rules and safety equipment, particularly restraints.
Roundy-round cars like world of outlaws and Nascar are right there also.
Study their rules. They learned the hard way, Ask Dale Earnhardt.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
On Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 4:16 PM Mike Kelley via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> If I were fabbing up base plates to spread the load, I would use 1/8”
> steel plates (w/ rounded edges) under the seats and where the belts
> attach. Take it from an old sheet metal contractor, 16 or 18 gauge will
> tear pretty quickly under the extreme load of an accident.
> Just my thoughts!
> Mike/The Corvair a holic
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Apr 17, 2019, at 11:20 AM, John Phillips via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Look at the torque with the shoulder belt attached to the seat back. If
> the
>> attachment point is 4 times the distance as the length between the mount
>> front and the rear bolts then for every 1000 lbs of belt force there will
>> be 4000 lbs of upward force on the rear bolts and 4000 lbs of downforce
> on
>> the base plate front edge. 1000 lbs is not a lot for a shoulder belt in a
>> frontal accident. The seat back hinge needs to be able to take the torque
>> as well.
>> John Phillips
>> 75 Avion VIN A26000
>> Retired
>> Rancho Cordova, CA 95670
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 8:49 AM Kingsley Coach via Gmclist > gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Flipp, do you think you could provide a touch more information about
>>> yourself and your ship? How about a sig attachment like most others!
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 9:30 AM John Phillips via Gmclist >> gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dave, you would probably have to reinforce the deck where the seat
> mounts
>>>> as well.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 4:46 AM Dave Stragand via Gmclist >>> gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > I know GMs of the late 60’s into early 70’s has that kind of two belt
>>>> > system. You had two separate buckles: one lap belt and one for the
>>>> > shoulder belt. It wasn’t the best solution but it did meet federal
>>>> > requirements.
>>>> >
>>>> > Of course, a 5-point racing harness in a captain’s chair would do the
>>> job
>>>> > and then some, but my gut tells me that the integrated shoulder belts
>>> on
>>>> > some newer seats coupled with a reinforced base would be the best
>>> option.
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Apr 17, 2019, at 12:07 AM, slc via Gmclist >> gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
>>>> >
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I have been thinking about a shoulder belt for a couple years now.
>>>> >> I already have the seatbelt attached, but now shoulder belt.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I seem to remember a car that I had, I think I had, back in the 70's
>>>> > ish, it had some kind of dual clasp, the seat belt went into on latch
>>> and
>>>> > the
>>>> >> shoulder belt went into the other. This device clipped into the
>>> normal
>>>> > seat belt clip. I can't for the life of me remember where I saw it
> nor
>>>> can
>>>> > I
>>>> >> find it.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> As was mentioned, the GMC's tend to lose the top half if rolled. I
>>>> have
>>>> > seen a couple of pics that showed this. My thinking has been to
>>> consider
>>>> >> some kind of attachment for the belt below the window line and the
>>> belt
>>>> > would go up to the top of the seat, across the person and to the seat
>>>> belt
>>>> >> device, IF WE CAN EVER FIND IT OR MAKE IT!
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I did consider attaching at the floor level on the opposite side,
>>>> across
>>>> > the seat to the top, across the person to the latch. But I think you
>>>> lose
>>>> >> the reason for having the shoulder belt with that arrangement,
>>>> > especially if the seat breaks loose.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> So that is why I still do not have a shoulder harness, yet. I am
>>> open
>>>> > to suggestions. I am almost wondering if a roll bar has to be
>>> installed
>>>> for
>>>> >> such a belt. I know we are balancing safety over reason with this
>>>> > particular vehicle. I believe the GMC was not engineered for a
>>> shoulder
>>>> > belt
>>>> >> attachement so one may have to be made up. Maybe have to use the
>>> seat
>>>> > belt and add a belt that is actually wrapped around the seat back and
>>>> just
>>>> >> clipped in front of you. This of course depends on the seat NOT
>>>> tearing
>>>> > free from the floor, but may be the only option.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> If you get any ideas, post them here as I am interested as well.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> slc
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> GatsbysCruise. \
>>>> >> 74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
>>>> >> Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS
>>>> > FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU
>>>> STUDIO -
>>>> >> UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
>>>> >>
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> >> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > GMCnet mailing list
>>>> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> *John Phillips*
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Michael Beaton
>>> 1977 Kingsley 26-11
>>> 1977 Eleganza II 26-3
>>> Antigonish, NS
>>>
>>> Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *John Phillips*
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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