Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Bogie straightening
| Bogie straightening [message #341453] |
Sun, 03 March 2019 22:00  |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Senior Member |
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It looks like I've got a left center bogie a bit out of shape. I've looked at the tool for bending the arm by pushing on the frame/bogie box but that method has been used on non reaction arm coaches. Anyone have any experience doing a reaction arm equipped rig? I'd hate to think it would be necessary to R&R everything each time I did a bend. Any thoughts?
thanks, Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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| Re: Bogie straightening [message #341474 is a reply to message #341453] |
Mon, 04 March 2019 07:32  |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Given the relative sizes of the bogie arm and reaction arm, you could probably bend the bogie the necessary amount without an great concern, but if you take Matt C's route you'd be safe anyhow. The reaction bars have enough side play to let the bogie be way out of alignment without binding.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bogie straightening [message #341475 is a reply to message #341453] |
Mon, 04 March 2019 07:57 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Hal,
I suppose you're concerned, as I would be, about using the back of the
reaction arm's torque box as a bearing point for the forcing tool between
it and the frame. As a not-too-expensive alternative, you might consider
the Alex Sirum method: a long pipe (2"-3" OD) welded to an old steel
wheel. With the wheel mounted and the suspension arm supported, he (with
help) is reportedly able to move the bogie arm to any desired position.
I've never even seen it in person but it sounds reasonable.
Ken H.
On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 8:43 AM Hal StClair via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> It looks like I've got a left center bogie a bit out of shape. I've
> looked at the tool for bending the arm by pushing on the frame/bogie box
> but that
> method has been used on non reaction arm coaches. Anyone have any
> experience doing a reaction arm equipped rig? I'd hate to think it would be
> necessary to R&R everything each time I did a bend. Any thoughts?
> thanks, Hal
> --
> 1977 Royale 101348,
>
> 1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
>
> 1975 Eleganza II, 101230,
>
> 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
>
> Rio Rancho, NM
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bogie straightening [message #341480 is a reply to message #341475] |
Mon, 04 March 2019 09:27 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Senior Member |
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I have Manny's system and as Ken suggests, I hesitate to place the load on the torque box. The method you suggest Ken, would put an awful load on the bearings if I understand what you are saying. But then again, I guess the bearings are subjected to some pretty nasty loads just making sharp turns. I'll have to re-evaluate my options when I get into it I guess. Just returned from almost 3 months in the coach Saturday PM so have lots of catching up to do on the home front.
Thanks, Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bogie straightening [message #341484 is a reply to message #341483] |
Mon, 04 March 2019 11:27 |
Bill Van Vlack
Messages: 419
Registered: September 2015
Location: Guemes Island, Washington
Karma: 14
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Senior Member |
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Chuck,
I tried that pusher and wasn't able to tighten it enough to get the bogie to bend and stay. Too old and decrepit I think. I ended up renting a hydraulic pusher kit and fixed a laser to the wheel with my wooden version of the Work alignment kit and a target at the front ride height slot location. Put a line on the target where the frame-to-laser distances were equal and went a little at at time. With the laser setup you can move it a little at a time and see how much overstretch you need. Agree that pushing at the end of the bogie arm makes the most sense.
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid November 2015.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bogie straightening [message #341485 is a reply to message #341484] |
Mon, 04 March 2019 12:00 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Bill, there is a method to straightening or bending bogie arms. It takes a
minimum force of 10,000 pounds to bend the ones I have done.
Jim Hupy
On Mon, Mar 4, 2019, 9:27 AM Bill Van Vlack via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org wrote:
> Chuck,
> I tried that pusher and wasn't able to tighten it enough to get the bogie
> to bend and stay. Too old and decrepit I think. I ended up renting a
> hydraulic pusher kit and fixed a laser to the wheel with my wooden version
> of the Work alignment kit and a target at the front ride height slot
> location. Put a line on the target where the frame-to-laser distances were
> equal and went a little at at time. With the laser setup you can move it a
> little at a time and see how much overstretch you need. Agree that pushing
> at the end of the bogie arm makes the most sense.
> --
> Bill Van Vlack
> '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath,
> Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o
> mid
> November 2015.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bogie straightening [message #341487 is a reply to message #341475] |
Mon, 04 March 2019 12:39 |
johnd01
Messages: 354
Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Is that a 21-foot long pipe?
On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 10:21 AM Ken Henderson via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Hal,
>
> I suppose you're concerned, as I would be, about using the back of the
> reaction arm's torque box as a bearing point for the forcing tool between
> it and the frame. As a not-too-expensive alternative, you might consider
> the Alex Sirum method: a long pipe (2"-3" OD) welded to an old steel
> wheel. With the wheel mounted and the suspension arm supported, he (with
> help) is reportedly able to move the bogie arm to any desired position.
> I've never even seen it in person but it sounds reasonable.
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 8:43 AM Hal StClair via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> It looks like I've got a left center bogie a bit out of shape. I've
>> looked at the tool for bending the arm by pushing on the frame/bogie box
>> but that
>> method has been used on non reaction arm coaches. Anyone have any
>> experience doing a reaction arm equipped rig? I'd hate to think it would
> be
>> necessary to R&R everything each time I did a bend. Any thoughts?
>> thanks, Hal
>> --
>> 1977 Royale 101348,
>>
>> 1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
>>
>> 1975 Eleganza II, 101230,
>>
>> 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
>>
>> Rio Rancho, NM
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
*John Phillips*
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Johnd01
John Phillips
Avion A2600 TZE064V101164
Rancho Cordova, CA (Sacramento)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bogie straightening [message #341489 is a reply to message #341487] |
Mon, 04 March 2019 12:56 |
Emery Stora
Messages: 959
Registered: January 2011
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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I don’t remember for sure but I think it was 10 foot.
Emery Stora
> On Mar 4, 2019, at 11:39 AM, John Phillips via Gmclist wrote:
>
> Is that a 21-foot long pipe?
>
> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 10:21 AM Ken Henderson via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Hal,
>>
>> I suppose you're concerned, as I would be, about using the back of the
>> reaction arm's torque box as a bearing point for the forcing tool between
>> it and the frame. As a not-too-expensive alternative, you might consider
>> the Alex Sirum method: a long pipe (2"-3" OD) welded to an old steel
>> wheel. With the wheel mounted and the suspension arm supported, he (with
>> help) is reportedly able to move the bogie arm to any desired position.
>> I've never even seen it in person but it sounds reasonable.
>>
>> Ken H.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 8:43 AM Hal StClair via Gmclist > gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> It looks like I've got a left center bogie a bit out of shape. I've
>>> looked at the tool for bending the arm by pushing on the frame/bogie box
>>> but that
>>> method has been used on non reaction arm coaches. Anyone have any
>>> experience doing a reaction arm equipped rig? I'd hate to think it would
>> be
>>> necessary to R&R everything each time I did a bend. Any thoughts?
>>> thanks, Hal
>>> --
>>> 1977 Royale 101348,
>>>
>>> 1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
>>>
>>> 1975 Eleganza II, 101230,
>>>
>>> 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
>>>
>>> Rio Rancho, NM
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
> --
>
> *John Phillips*
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bogie straightening [message #341496 is a reply to message #341494] |
Mon, 04 March 2019 15:14 |
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Richard RV
Messages: 631
Registered: July 2012
Location: Full-timer for 12 years, ...
Karma: -17
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Senior Member |
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Emery,
Sirum has tweaked the system he uses to straighten the bogies. He now uses a 4' by 4" diameter steel pipe welded to the steel rim, with some additional steel gusseting where it attaches to the rim. To straighten the bogey he hooks a come along to the end of the pipe and the other end hooks underneath to the chassis at a crossmember. Depending on where the attachment point at the chassis is located, forward or aft, the bogey can be bent either inwards or outwards. This allows one person to straighten the bogey using mechanical advantage instead of body weight and muscular strength. It's also more precise an application of force.
As a point of discussion, I have never heard mention of concern for bogey bearings from an impact, only concern about load on the bearings when straightening the bogies. I'm of the opinion that the initial impact that bent the bogey in the first place, in an uncontrolled fashion, would put more load on the bearings then straightening the bogey in a controlled fashion.
If there's no mention of inspecting bearings when straightening a bogey, at least in my experience and readings, is this really such a concern?
RV
PS Chuck, that's a really nice little bogey straightener. 😉
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach under construction;
‘76 Edgemont waiting its turn
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bogie straightening [message #341498 is a reply to message #341496] |
Mon, 04 March 2019 15:58 |
Bill Van Vlack
Messages: 419
Registered: September 2015
Location: Guemes Island, Washington
Karma: 14
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Senior Member |
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Jim H,
I was able to successfully straighten my bogie arm using the method I described, i.e., a Porta-power against the frame at the end of the arm. Aside from the wheel/lever arm method and the tool posted earlier, that was the only method I found.
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid November 2015.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bogie straightening [message #341502 is a reply to message #341483] |
Mon, 04 March 2019 19:28 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Hey, that's an even better idea, Chuck, when only toe needs adjustment.
I'd thought about something like that, but didn't know it was really
feasible.
Ken H.
On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 12:07 PM Charles Boyd via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Hal the bogie pusher I have pushes on the arm and not the box.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p66047-bogie-pusher.html
>
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p66048-bogie-pusher-in-use.html
>
>
>
>
>
> Hal StClair wrote on Mon, 04 March 2019 10:27
>> I have Manny's system and as Ken suggests, I hesitate to place the load
> on the torque box. The method you suggest Ken, would put an awful load on
>> the bearings if I understand what you are saying. But then again, I
> guess the bearings are subjected to some pretty nasty loads just making
> sharp
>> turns. I'll have to re-evaluate my options when I get into it I guess.
> Just returned from almost 3 months in the coach Saturday PM so have lots of
>> catching up to do on the home front.
>> Thanks, Hal
>
> --
> C. Boyd
> 76 Crestmont
> East Tennessee
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bogie straightening [message #341572 is a reply to message #341496] |
Thu, 07 March 2019 09:35 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Senior Member |
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Thanks for the tip Richard. I built one using an old steel rim with a 54" 2x4 tube welded perpendicular to the rim. It seems to work almost too well although it's a bit of a chore to hit the pull just right.
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bogie straightening [message #341586 is a reply to message #341572] |
Fri, 08 March 2019 11:38 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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I use a porta-power and a short ram cylinder with a shop made fixture that
centers up on the back of the bogie spindle. I set up a dial indicator on a
heavy jack stand to measure the amount of travel. Very precise. No
overbending.
Dick Paterson has a similar fixture that uses a 1" diameter threaded
fastener to provide the force. I used his when we were in Canada and a
coach needed some straightening. It works well. Many ways available to
skin that cat.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Thu, Mar 7, 2019, 8:44 AM Hal StClair via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org wrote:
> Thanks for the tip Richard. I built one using an old steel rim with a 54"
> 2x4 tube welded perpendicular to the rim. It seems to work almost too well
> although it's a bit of a chore to hit the pull just right.
> Hal
> --
> 1977 Royale 101348,
>
> 1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
>
> 1975 Eleganza II, 101230,
>
> 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
>
> Rio Rancho, NM
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: Bogie straightening [message #341615 is a reply to message #341453] |
Sun, 10 March 2019 06:29 |
millstuffs
Messages: 25
Registered: March 2006
Location: Norwich,New York 13815
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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May I ask ? Would any straightening be included in the wheel alignment by any of our GMC service facilities that specialize in six wheel alignments ?
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