Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Was oil filters, now batteries
| Was oil filters, now batteries [message #340574] |
Fri, 01 February 2019 19:53  |
Harry
Messages: 1888
Registered: October 2007
Location: Victoria, BC CANADA
Karma: 3
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Who makes the best battery?
How many manufacturers are there?
Who sells the best battery?
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| Re: Was oil filters, now batteries [message #340577 is a reply to message #340574] |
Fri, 01 February 2019 20:44  |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
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FWIW our Delco rep told us there is no less quality in their shorter warranty batteries than the full 72 month ones, just less CCA. They are betting with the higher CCA ones you won't need a warranty claim.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
[Updated on: Fri, 01 February 2019 20:45] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Was oil filters, now batteries [message #340579 is a reply to message #340577] |
Fri, 01 February 2019 20:56 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
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When I went to GM TRAINING, this is what they told us. We, Corporate
GENERAL MOTORS, of course would prefer that you replace GENUINE GM DELCO
with GENUINE GM DELCO. That being said, batteries are sold by the pound.
All factors of construction being equal, the heaviest battery is the best
battery. So when you pick up a T-105 Trojan and it is 15 pounds heavier
than a Delco, it is 15 pounds better, too.
Jim Hupy
On Fri, Feb 1, 2019, 6:45 PM John R. Lebetski FWIW our Delco rep told use there is no less quality in their shorter[/color]
> warranty batteries than the full 72 month ones, just less CCA. They are
> betting
> with the higher CCA ones you won't need a warranty claim.
>
> --
> John Lebetski
> Woodstock, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Was oil filters, now batteries [message #340580 is a reply to message #340579] |
Fri, 01 February 2019 21:31 |
JerryW
Messages: 256
Registered: August 2018
Karma: 1
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Sorry, James, but that is not necessary true. Years back I was touring Atlas Laboratories in New Jersey which was the testing lab for all Standard Oil companies. In their battery testing area they showed some cutaways of various batteries. They tested theirs against other brands. A couple of them had a 1” thick slab of lead lying inside the bottom of the case not connected to anything. They told me the sole purpose was to make the battery heavier. Their testing showed it was actually inferior to the others but since many people feel that a heavier battery was better, it was a cheap way to add weight. So much for “the heavier the better “.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
> On Feb 1, 2019, at 7:56 PM, James Hupy wrote:
>
> When I went to GM TRAINING, this is what they told us. We, Corporate
> GENERAL MOTORS, of course would prefer that you replace GENUINE GM DELCO
> with GENUINE GM DELCO. That being said, batteries are sold by the pound.
> All factors of construction being equal, the heaviest battery is the best
> battery. So when you pick up a T-105 Trojan and it is 15 pounds heavier
> than a Delco, it is 15 pounds better, too.
> Jim Hupy
>
> On Fri, Feb 1, 2019, 6:45 PM John R. Lebetski wrote:
>
>> FWIW our Delco rep told use there is no less quality in their shorter
>> warranty batteries than the full 72 month ones, just less CCA. They are
>> betting
>> with the higher CCA ones you won't need a warranty claim.
>>
>> --
>> John Lebetski
>> Woodstock, IL
>> 77 Eleganza II
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Was oil filters, now batteries [message #340581 is a reply to message #340580] |
Fri, 01 February 2019 21:48 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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I said "All other factors being equal" which would include factors like you
mentioned. I was thinking about internal tie straps, vibration protection,
antimony alloy, electrolyte storage above the plates, insulation types, and
quality of construction like you mentioned, there are probably several
others. We recently lost one MAJOR player in the game, Die Hard by Sears.
That one will come back around and bite all of us in the butt.
Jim Hupy
On Fri, Feb 1, 2019, 7:32 PM Emery Stora via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org wrote:
> Sorry, James, but that is not necessary true. Years back I was touring
> Atlas Laboratories in New Jersey which was the testing lab for all Standard
> Oil companies. In their battery testing area they showed some cutaways of
> various batteries. They tested theirs against other brands. A couple of
> them had a 1” thick slab of lead lying inside the bottom of the case not
> connected to anything. They told me the sole purpose was to make the
> battery heavier. Their testing showed it was actually inferior to the
> others but since many people feel that a heavier battery was better, it was
> a cheap way to add weight. So much for “the heavier the better “.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Frederick, CO
>
>
>> On Feb 1, 2019, at 7:56 PM, James Hupy wrote:
>>
>> When I went to GM TRAINING, this is what they told us. We, Corporate
>> GENERAL MOTORS, of course would prefer that you replace GENUINE GM DELCO
>> with GENUINE GM DELCO. That being said, batteries are sold by the pound.
>> All factors of construction being equal, the heaviest battery is the best
>> battery. So when you pick up a T-105 Trojan and it is 15 pounds heavier
>> than a Delco, it is 15 pounds better, too.
>> Jim Hupy
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 1, 2019, 6:45 PM John R. Lebetski > wrote:
>>
>>> FWIW our Delco rep told use there is no less quality in their shorter
>>> warranty batteries than the full 72 month ones, just less CCA. They are
>>> betting
>>> with the higher CCA ones you won't need a warranty claim.
>>>
>>> --
>>> John Lebetski
>>> Woodstock, IL
>>> 77 Eleganza II
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Was oil filters, now batteries [message #340582 is a reply to message #340581] |
Fri, 01 February 2019 21:55 |
JerryW
Messages: 256
Registered: August 2018
Karma: 1
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BUT, how do you know “all other factors being equal” just by weighing the battery?You can’t see inside the case unless you cut it open.
Emery Stora
> On Feb 1, 2019, at 8:48 PM, James Hupy wrote:
>
> I said "All other factors being equal" which would include factors like you
> mentioned. I was thinking about internal tie straps, vibration protection,
> antimony alloy, electrolyte storage above the plates, insulation types, and
> quality of construction like you mentioned, there are probably several
> others. We recently lost one MAJOR player in the game, Die Hard by Sears.
> That one will come back around and bite all of us in the butt.
> Jim Hupy
>
> On Fri, Feb 1, 2019, 7:32 PM Emery Stora via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org wrote:
>
>> Sorry, James, but that is not necessary true. Years back I was touring
>> Atlas Laboratories in New Jersey which was the testing lab for all Standard
>> Oil companies. In their battery testing area they showed some cutaways of
>> various batteries. They tested theirs against other brands. A couple of
>> them had a 1” thick slab of lead lying inside the bottom of the case not
>> connected to anything. They told me the sole purpose was to make the
>> battery heavier. Their testing showed it was actually inferior to the
>> others but since many people feel that a heavier battery was better, it was
>> a cheap way to add weight. So much for “the heavier the better “.
>>
>> Emery Stora
>> 77 Kingsley
>> Frederick, CO
>>
>>
>>> On Feb 1, 2019, at 7:56 PM, James Hupy wrote:
>>>
>>> When I went to GM TRAINING, this is what they told us. We, Corporate
>>> GENERAL MOTORS, of course would prefer that you replace GENUINE GM DELCO
>>> with GENUINE GM DELCO. That being said, batteries are sold by the pound.
>>> All factors of construction being equal, the heaviest battery is the best
>>> battery. So when you pick up a T-105 Trojan and it is 15 pounds heavier
>>> than a Delco, it is 15 pounds better, too.
>>> Jim Hupy
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 1, 2019, 6:45 PM John R. Lebetski >> wrote:
>>>
>>>> FWIW our Delco rep told use there is no less quality in their shorter
>>>> warranty batteries than the full 72 month ones, just less CCA. They are
>>>> betting
>>>> with the higher CCA ones you won't need a warranty claim.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> John Lebetski
>>>> Woodstock, IL
>>>> 77 Eleganza II
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Was oil filters, now batteries [message #340583 is a reply to message #340582] |
Fri, 01 February 2019 22:40 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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I guess that puts us back to blind brand loyalty, Ford vs Chev vs Chrysler,
etc. We can't cut them open, that's for sure.
Jim Hupy
On Fri, Feb 1, 2019, 7:56 PM Emery Stora via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org wrote:
> BUT, how do you know “all other factors being equal” just by weighing the
> battery?You can’t see inside the case unless you cut it open.
>
> Emery Stora
>
>> On Feb 1, 2019, at 8:48 PM, James Hupy wrote:
>>
>> I said "All other factors being equal" which would include factors like
> you
>> mentioned. I was thinking about internal tie straps, vibration
> protection,
>> antimony alloy, electrolyte storage above the plates, insulation types,
> and
>> quality of construction like you mentioned, there are probably several
>> others. We recently lost one MAJOR player in the game, Die Hard by Sears.
>> That one will come back around and bite all of us in the butt.
>> Jim Hupy
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 1, 2019, 7:32 PM Emery Stora via Gmclist > gmclist@list.gmcnet.org wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, James, but that is not necessary true. Years back I was touring
>>> Atlas Laboratories in New Jersey which was the testing lab for all
> Standard
>>> Oil companies. In their battery testing area they showed some cutaways
> of
>>> various batteries. They tested theirs against other brands. A couple of
>>> them had a 1” thick slab of lead lying inside the bottom of the case not
>>> connected to anything. They told me the sole purpose was to make the
>>> battery heavier. Their testing showed it was actually inferior to the
>>> others but since many people feel that a heavier battery was better, it
> was
>>> a cheap way to add weight. So much for “the heavier the better “.
>>>
>>> Emery Stora
>>> 77 Kingsley
>>> Frederick, CO
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Feb 1, 2019, at 7:56 PM, James Hupy wrote:
>>>>
>>>> When I went to GM TRAINING, this is what they told us. We, Corporate
>>>> GENERAL MOTORS, of course would prefer that you replace GENUINE GM
> DELCO
>>>> with GENUINE GM DELCO. That being said, batteries are sold by the
> pound.
>>>> All factors of construction being equal, the heaviest battery is the
> best
>>>> battery. So when you pick up a T-105 Trojan and it is 15 pounds heavier
>>>> than a Delco, it is 15 pounds better, too.
>>>> Jim Hupy
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 1, 2019, 6:45 PM John R. Lebetski >>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > FWIW our Delco rep told use there is no less quality in their shorter
>>>> > warranty batteries than the full 72 month ones, just less CCA. They
> are
>>>> > betting
>>>> > with the higher CCA ones you won't need a warranty claim.
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > John Lebetski
>>>> > Woodstock, IL
>>>> > 77 Eleganza II
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > GMCnet mailing list
>>>> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>> >
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
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| Re: Was oil filters, now batteries [message #340588 is a reply to message #340574] |
Sat, 02 February 2019 08:46 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Harry wrote on Fri, 01 February 2019 20:53Who makes the best battery?
How many manufacturers are there?
Who sells the best battery?
These are all good questions, and the answers are not easy.
I was required to learn more than I knew before because of the number of RFQ and contracts to upgrade performance cruisers.
For those that do not recognize this label, these are former racing yachts (limited or no creature comforts) that are still nice sailing boats, but no longer competitive (low resale value) and now the owners want to keep them for cruising.
First the question has to be segregated by service:
Main engine start
House/hotel
Back up power
If you are going to mix any of these two, be ready for issues.
I never even quoted any of the new technology batteries as cost has always been an issue.
AGM beats flooded cell in every category except cost.
Of the AGM house batteries, Lifeline was a good supplier and there was never an issue. Some installations are now 10 seasons old.
If you are willing to spend the money for good flooded cell, Look to Trojan. This is a current love of the solar power installers.
If cost is less of an object (Yeah, Sure) there are the top line brands of Rolls and Surette. These are both known in the marine industry for their quality and long cycle life. Both companies actually do cycle life testing.
For main engine starting batteries, the rolled cell (Looks like a 6-pack) batteries were hard to beat because of the low internal resistance that makes for great cranking power.
As with others, I have seen (I did not have to warranty) problems with recent Optima batteries, but the Orbitals seem to have avoided the issue.
Flooded cell engine batteries are a complete crap-shoot. While there are apparently only three sources still operating in the USA (Johnson Controls, Deka and Exide), they do run different lines for different clients. A client can even change suppliers at times.
Some installations wanted a standalone system for things of importance like the VHF radio and some navigational instruments. this is where a Gell-Cell is great. They are very low leakage and I have seen them a year old, untouched and still at full power. There is a lot they are not good at and they take special handling. This is what most UPS have in the box.
One thing that is a given, is that Lead Acid Batteries have a shelf life. So, when you are battery shopping, look for the month/year stickers. The original house battery in the coach was a 4D. It was dead, so I went to the local Waste Marine and got a replacement. It was bad when I put it in. Its replacement was better and lasted until I made a mistake and let the Buzz-Box fry it. This fall (when the coach first got back on the road, I replaced the nine year old and getting weak but still serviceable GC2s from Sams with a pair of T105s. They are too new to report on at this time.
This will kind of frost some folks that have favorite brands, but as if it is any store brand that could change any time so be ready.
I hope this is a help to someone.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| [GMCnet] Jacking points? [message #340590 is a reply to message #340588] |
Sat, 02 February 2019 11:46 |
Stu Rasmussen
Messages: 130
Registered: January 2019
Location: Silverton, OR
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Hi all,
I'd like to get safely underneath my newly acquired beast for a survey
of things to come.
The manual shows jacking points (which I do not have the appropriate
jack or adapters for) and I am presuming that I can find a suitable
intersection or two of heavy frame members and apply a bottle jack to in
order to lift enough to place a set of jack stands.
I'm looking for advice from those with more experience (meaning > 0) than I.
Thanks
Stu
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Stu Rasmussen W7QJ
Silverton, OR
'77 Birchaven
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| Re: [GMCnet] Jacking points? [message #340593 is a reply to message #340590] |
Sat, 02 February 2019 16:15 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Under the bogey box
Behind the front wheel at the joint
Between the front subframe and side rails.
Under the center of the main front frame crossmember where the two holes are
Under no circumstances jack up under the single thickness c channel side
rails.
Sully
Bellevue wa
On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 9:46 AM Stu Rasmussen (97381.com)
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'd like to get safely underneath my newly acquired beast for a survey
> of things to come.
>
> The manual shows jacking points (which I do not have the appropriate
> jack or adapters for) and I am presuming that I can find a suitable
> intersection or two of heavy frame members and apply a bottle jack to in
> order to lift enough to place a set of jack stands.
>
> I'm looking for advice from those with more experience (meaning > 0) than
> I.
>
> Thanks
>
> Stu
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Jacking points? [message #340594 is a reply to message #340593] |
Sat, 02 February 2019 16:40 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Once you have it jacked up, put blocks under the frame to keep it up when the jacks fail. Yes, they will fail. I carried short sections of 4x6, and 4x4 wood as blocks. I have also had the dubious pleasure of having a GMC fall off a jack (not mine).Gravity is faster than you.
If I had a wheel off, the removed tire was always placed under the frame nearest the removed wheel. Semi-safety nut.
Tom
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: Was oil filters, now batteries [message #340607 is a reply to message #340574] |
Sun, 03 February 2019 10:32 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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What Tom said. I don't even stick a hand under my coach until it is cribbed safely with 4x4s. You will NOT survive it coming down with you under it.
-johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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