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anti-sieze too many choices [message #321434]

Mon, 31 July 2017 13:22

lqqkatjon

Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN

Karma: 5

Senior Member

I have never paid much attention and have bought anti sieze at the auto part store, probably based on the first thing I grabbed, or price.

The latest project I am addressing, is my exhaust manifold leaks, and am going the header route in hopes to only deal with this problem 1 last and final time, so I went to buy some "high temp" anti-seize and seen way too many choices on the shelf, so I thought I would ask the experts??

there is copper high temp anti-seize, there is nickle anti-seize, there is aluminum anti-seize, white anti-seize, and even Marine Grade Anti-seize.

What would be best for the header bolts/studs?

Jon Roche 75 palm beach EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now. St. Cloud, MN http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/

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Re: [GMCnet] anti-sieze too many choices [message #321437 is a reply to message #321434]

Mon, 31 July 2017 13:46

powerjon

Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004

Karma: 5

Senior Member

John,

I have used both the nickel and copper based anti-seize products. The nickel is good up to 2200F and the copper to 1800F.

JR Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMC Eastern States Charter Member
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMCMI
78 GMC Buskirk 30’ Stretch
1975 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan

> On Jul 31, 2017, at 2:22 PM, Jon Roche wrote:
>
> I have never paid much attention and have bought anti sieze at the auto part store, probably based on the first thing I grabbed, or price.
>
> The latest project I am addressing, is my exhaust manifold leaks, and am going the header route in hopes to only deal with this problem 1 last and
> final time, so I went to buy some "high temp" anti-seize and seen way too many choices on the shelf, so I thought I would ask the experts??
>
> there is copper high temp anti-seize, there is nickle anti-seize, there is aluminum anti-seize, white anti-seize, and even Marine Grade Anti-seize.
>
>
> What would be best for the header bolts/studs?
> --
> Jon Roche
> 75 palm beach
> St. Cloud, MN
> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/

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GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan

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Re: anti-sieze too many choices [message #321440 is a reply to message #321434]

Mon, 31 July 2017 14:22

Matt Colie

Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan

Karma: 7

Senior Member

lqqkatjon wrote on Mon, 31 July 2017 14:22

I have never paid much attention and have bought anti sieze at the auto part store, probably based on the first thing I grabbed, or price.

The latest project I am addressing, is my exhaust manifold leaks, and am going the header route in hopes to only deal with this problem 1 last and final time, so I went to buy some "high temp" anti-seize and seen way too many choices on the shelf, so I thought I would ask the experts??

there is copper high temp anti-seize, there is nickle anti-seize, there is aluminum anti-seize, white anti-seize, and even Marine Grade Anti-seize.

What would be best for the header bolts/studs?

If you have an O2 sensor, get the nickel. The original copper was Fel=Pro C5 and it contained lead. I have only used nickel for the last several decades.

Matt

Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit

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Re: [GMCnet] anti-sieze too many choices [message #321450 is a reply to message #321434]

Mon, 31 July 2017 16:30

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

Jon,

Keep in mind that coating the bolts with anti-seize WILL require lowering the amount of torque you use on the header retaining
bolts.

I have no idea how much.

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Jon Roche
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2017 4:23 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] anti-sieze too many choices

I have never paid much attention and have bought anti sieze at the auto part store, probably based on the first thing I grabbed, or
price.

The latest project I am addressing, is my exhaust manifold leaks, and am going the header route in hopes to only deal with this
problem 1 last and final time, so I went to buy some "high temp" anti-seize and seen way too many choices on the shelf, so I thought
I would ask the experts??

there is copper high temp anti-seize, there is nickle anti-seize, there is aluminum anti-seize, white anti-seize, and even Marine
Grade Anti-seize.

What would be best for the header bolts/studs?
--
Jon Roche

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Re: [GMCnet] anti-sieze too many choices [message #321469 is a reply to message #321450]

Tue, 01 August 2017 06:24

Ken Burton

Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana

Karma: 10

Senior Member

Minus 12 to 15% is the number that I use.

USAussie wrote on Mon, 31 July 2017 16:30

Jon,

Keep in mind that coating the bolts with anti-seize WILL require lowering the amount of torque you use on the header retaining
bolts.

I have no idea how much.

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Jon Roche
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2017 4:23 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] anti-sieze too many choices

I have never paid much attention and have bought anti sieze at the auto part store, probably based on the first thing I grabbed, or
price.

The latest project I am addressing, is my exhaust manifold leaks, and am going the header route in hopes to only deal with this
problem 1 last and final time, so I went to buy some "high temp" anti-seize and seen way too many choices on the shelf, so I thought
I would ask the experts??

there is copper high temp anti-seize, there is nickle anti-seize, there is aluminum anti-seize, white anti-seize, and even Marine
Grade Anti-seize.

What would be best for the header bolts/studs?
--
Jon Roche

Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

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Re: [GMCnet] anti-sieze too many choices [message #321472 is a reply to message #321469]

Tue, 01 August 2017 09:11

Bullitthead

Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013

Karma: 5

Senior Member

Don't use the C-5A on exhaust manifolds...on the Bronco with 3 inch long bolts, I really coated the stems thoroughly and it burned off immediately Confused

Confused

. Had to pull the motor a month later for a blown seal and the bolts were frozen in the manifold Mad

Mad

. The threads in the head were OK, but the manifold must have been too much heat for the C-5A Crying or Very Sad

Crying or Very Sad

So I used the Permatex or NAPA brand (can't see the bottle from here) silver stuff on the GMC header bolts instead. The header bolts do not get as much heat as manifold bolts, so that is not a direct comparison, and I haven;t taken the headers off again (yet).

Terry Kelpien ASE Master Technician 73 Glacier 260 Smithfield, Va.

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Re: [GMCnet] anti-sieze too many choices [message #321474 is a reply to message #321472]

Tue, 01 August 2017 09:45

GMC.LES

Messages: 505
Registered: April 2014

Karma: -2

Senior Member

In the aviation industry that I work in, we use the nickel based "Never Seez" almost exclusively. The two main reasons being that it is the most compatible with the metals used in the industry, and it has a higher temp rating than most other anti-seize products.

Copper anti-seize is not friendly with certain metals like titanium.

I personally use both the copper and nickel based ant-seize at home, but prefer the nickel on all my exhaust fasteners.

Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'

> On Aug 1, 2017, at 10:11 AM, Terry wrote:
>
> Don't use the C-5A on exhaust manifolds...on the Bronco with 3 inch long bolts, I really coated the stems thoroughly and it burned off immediately :?
> . Had to pull the motor a month later for a blown seal and the bolts were frozen in the manifold :x . The threads in the head were OK, but the
> manifold must have been too much heat for the C-5A :cry: So I used the Permatex or NAPA brand (can't see the bottle from here) silver stuff on the GMC
> header bolts instead. The header bolts do not get as much heat as manifold bolts, so that is not a direct comparison, and I haven;t taken the headers
> off again (yet).
> --
> Terry Kelpien
>
> ASE Master Technician
>
> 73 Glacier 260
>
> Smithfield, Va.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

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Re: anti-sieze too many choices [message #321477 is a reply to message #321434]

Tue, 01 August 2017 11:37

Scott Nutter

Messages: 782
Registered: January 2015
Location: Houston/San Diego

Karma: 4

Senior Member

Would the nickel silver anti seize be good for the oil sending unit and the water temp probe?

Scott Nutter 1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, Dave Lenzi super duty mid axle disc brakes, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera installed MSD Atomic EFI Houston, Texas

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Re: anti-sieze too many choices [message #321479 is a reply to message #321477]

Tue, 01 August 2017 11:44

TR 1

Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW

Karma: -7

Senior Member

Scott Nutter wrote on Tue, 01 August 2017 11:37

Would the nickel silver anti seize be good for the oil sending unit and the water temp probe?

For the sending units, I generally use some sort of teflon based thread sealing paste. Never tried anti-seize on those, but I would think it would not seal...

Mark S. '73 Painted Desert, Manny 1 Ton Front End, Howell Injection, Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes, Fort Worth, TX

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Re: [GMCnet] anti-sieze too many choices [message #321482 is a reply to message #321479]

Tue, 01 August 2017 11:58

James Hupy

Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010

Karma: -62

Senior Member

Anti seez is for the most part a conductor of electricity. The sending
units need a good ground, and they have tapered threads that are fluid
tight if properly tightened into good threads. Teflon tape, while an
excellent sealant, is a poor conductor, as is Teflon pipe dope. Some of
these old Olds manifolds are getting ragged in the threads from corrosion
and lots of use. That presents a problem in the sealing department when
never seez is used. No perfect answer here, I guess.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

On Aug 1, 2017 9:45 AM, "Mark Sawyer" wrote:

> Scott Nutter wrote on Tue, 01 August 2017 11:37
>> Would the nickel silver anti seize be good for the oil sending unit and
> the water temp probe?
>
>
> For the sending units, I generally use some sort of teflon based thread
> sealing paste. Never tried anti-seize on those, but I would think it would
> not seal...
>
> --
> Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
> Manny 1 Ton Front End,
> Howell Injection,
> Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
> Fort Worth, TX
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Re: [GMCnet] anti-sieze too many choices [message #321483 is a reply to message #321472]

Tue, 01 August 2017 12:09

Matt Colie

Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan

Karma: 7

Senior Member

Bullitthead wrote on Tue, 01 August 2017 10:11

Don't use the C-5A on exhaust manifolds...on the Bronco with 3 inch long bolts, I really coated the stems thoroughly and it burned off immediately . Had to pull the motor a month later for a blown seal and the bolts were frozen in the manifold . The threads in the head were OK, but the manifold must have been too much heat for the C-5A So I used the Permatex or NAPA brand (can't see the bottle from here) silver stuff on the GMC header bolts instead. The header bolts do not get as much heat as manifold bolts, so that is not a direct comparison, and I haven;t taken the headers off again (yet).

Terry,

The problem you had was because your C-5a is too new. Just a few years back I bought some new and have since tossd that tube. This was a direct result of a discussion I had with an industry friend (when I still had some) that worked for the family (Fle-Pro was privately held until recently). I asked (read as assaulted) him why the good old C-5a was seemed to no longer be as good. He admitted that they had been forced to remove the lead in the formulation. They tried to replace it with cadmium or zinc and that turned out as poorly as they thought it might.

Matt - Taking a grandson #2 to the museum in Dayton

Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit

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Re: [GMCnet] anti-sieze too many choices [message #321487 is a reply to message #321483]

Tue, 01 August 2017 12:34

Bullitthead

Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013

Karma: 5

Senior Member

Sorry Matt, but it's not new C-5A. This can was given to me back in 1986 when we stopped using it on the Lear Jet wheels because it flew off and got all over everything (and the brakes!) when the techs used it on the wheel bolts. Supervisor told me to "get that can of stuff off this facility now" Mad

Mad

. So I took it out and locked it in my car and we used LubTork on the bolts after that. The LubTork is more like toothpaste and kinda difficult to cover the bolts with, but that was the wheel manufacturer's choice in the first place. Incidentally, there was not supposed to be any anti-seize on the bolt threads, just on the shoulder that went through the wheel halves and the washer faces.

Still have the can of C-5A, and it's still messy, and it still works well on other fasteners and as a lube on a screw press or puller.

Terry Kelpien ASE Master Technician 73 Glacier 260 Smithfield, Va.

[Updated on: Tue, 01 August 2017 21:42]

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Re: [GMCnet] anti-sieze too many choices [message #321500 is a reply to message #321477]

Tue, 01 August 2017 16:34

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

Scott,

Those parts are National Pipe Thread and I always use Teflon tape on NPT threads.

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott Nutter
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 2:38 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] anti-sieze too many choices

Would the nickel silver anti seize be good for the oil sending unit and the water temp probe?
--
Scott Nutter

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Re: anti-sieze too many choices [message #321502 is a reply to message #321434]

Tue, 01 August 2017 16:56

jhbridges

Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga

Karma: -74

Senior Member

On sending units I use the silver stuff Advanced gives you with new sparking plugs. Not a Teflon <tm> fan where conductivity is needed.

--johnny

Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

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Re: anti-sieze too many choices [message #321505 is a reply to message #321434]

Tue, 01 August 2017 17:41

TR 1

Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW

Karma: -7

Senior Member

I've never had a problem with the teflon paste on senders. When you thread it in, enough of it gets squeezed out from where it is metal on metal that there is good contact. The paste only fills the gaps. No metal to metal contact at the gaps anyway. And if your threads are so shot that there is no metal on metal, you have other problems...

Mark S. '73 Painted Desert, Manny 1 Ton Front End, Howell Injection, Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes, Fort Worth, TX

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Re: [GMCnet] anti-sieze too many choices [message #321512 is a reply to message #321505]

Tue, 01 August 2017 19:06

Richard Denney

Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010

Karma: 9

Senior Member

Same with me--I use teflon tape, being very careful not to let it overlap
the tip where it can come off in the system. I've never had a problem with
electrical connections.

Rick "not that I use electrical gauges any more" Denney

On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 6:41 PM, Mark Sawyer wrote:

> I've never had a problem with the teflon paste on senders. When you
> thread it in, enough of it gets squeezed out from where it is metal on
> metal that
> there is good contact. The paste only fills the gaps. No metal to metal
> contact at the gaps anyway. And if your threads are so shot that there is
> no metal on metal, you have other problems...
> --
> Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
> Manny 1 Ton Front End,
> Howell Injection,
> Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
> Fort Worth, TX
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
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Re: [GMCnet] anti-sieze too many choices [message #321522 is a reply to message #321512]

Wed, 02 August 2017 02:28

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

Rich,

Teflon tape on fitting should start 1 to 1 1/2 threads from the end of the fittings and there should be no more than two wraps.

Above info courtesy of the United States Air Force Mechanical Accessories Repairman ABR 42231 course, Chanute AFB, Rantoul, Illinois
December 1964 - March 1965.

In case ya'll were wondering that career field included the following aircraft systems: air conditioning, pressurization, engine
bleed air, flight surface anti-icing, oxygen (liquid & gaseous), pneumatic powered constant speed generator drives, engine starters.

Anything else (non Avionic) that the electrical or hydraulic shops didn't repair.

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Richard Denney
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 10:07 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] anti-sieze too many choices

Same with me--I use teflon tape, being very careful not to let it overlap
the tip where it can come off in the system. I've never had a problem with
electrical connections.

Rick "not that I use electrical gauges any more" Denney

On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 6:41 PM, Mark Sawyer wrote:

> I've never had a problem with the teflon paste on senders. When you
> thread it in, enough of it gets squeezed out from where it is metal on
> metal that
> there is good contact. The paste only fills the gaps. No metal to metal
> contact at the gaps anyway. And if your threads are so shot that there is
> no metal on metal, you have other problems...
> --
> Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
> Manny 1 Ton Front End,
> Howell Injection,
> Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
> Fort Worth, TX
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Re: [GMCnet] anti-sieze too many choices [message #321530 is a reply to message #321522]

Wed, 02 August 2017 09:07

powerjon

Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004

Karma: 5

Senior Member

Rich,

Rob’s explanation on how to use teflon tape be it the thin, or heavier or the yellow tape is an excellent method to follow. The company that I worked for 34 years (Retired 2006), DOW about 25 years ago banned the use of teflon tape in air and instrument process control equipment as we were finding it downstream of the point of installation and into the process control systems and measurement instruments. I still only use the paste on most applications and do use the tape on some applications. If you take a fitting apart be sure to clean the threads of a shreds of teflon tape.

Rob, you actually have your MI and TI books is great, I want to keep mine but some of the AFSC 40270 Photographic Systems Technician book sections were classified Secret, but today all of the stuff has been declassified and some has appeared in Popular Science.

JR Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMC Eastern States Charter Member
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMCMI
78 GMC Buskirk 30’ Stretch
1975 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan

> On Aug 2, 2017, at 3:28 AM, Rob Mueller wrote:
>
> Rich,
>
> Teflon tape on fitting should start 1 to 1 1/2 threads from the end of the fittings and there should be no more than two wraps.
>
> Above info courtesy of the United States Air Force Mechanical Accessories Repairman ABR 42231 course, Chanute AFB, Rantoul, Illinois
> December 1964 - March 1965.
>
> In case ya'll were wondering that career field included the following aircraft systems: air conditioning, pressurization, engine
> bleed air, flight surface anti-icing, oxygen (liquid & gaseous), pneumatic powered constant speed generator drives, engine starters.
>
>
> Anything else (non Avionic) that the electrical or hydraulic shops didn't repair.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Richard Denney
> Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 10:07 AM
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] anti-sieze too many choices
>
> Same with me--I use teflon tape, being very careful not to let it overlap
> the tip where it can come off in the system. I've never had a problem with
> electrical connections.
>
> Rick "not that I use electrical gauges any more" Denney

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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan

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