Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Oil cooler adapter at block
| Oil cooler adapter at block [message #319506] |
Fri, 23 June 2017 15:41  |
lw8000
Messages: 201
Registered: July 2012
Location: S.E. Michigan
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Greetings:
Recently during an oil change I noticed that as I was removing the filter, the adapter housing that is attached to the block was also turning slightly as well. I am going to take a closer look but before I do, is there something that holds the adapter in place so it doesn't turn? In looking at some diagrams and posts here I'm not entirely sure what keeps it from turning. I figured I would ask before I dive in to see what's up. Hopefully it's a simple fix.
Thanks,
Chris
Chris S. -
77 Kingsley, 3.70 FD, mostly OEM -
S.E. Michigan
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| Re: Oil cooler adapter at block [message #319509 is a reply to message #319506] |
Fri, 23 June 2017 16:58  |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
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Sir, the threads the oil filter screws on is an adapter bolt. 1 1/8" maybe? According to manual it is supposed to be removed at every filter change and the gasket swapped with the gasket on the filter you just took off and retorqued. Some of us use a Vitar O ring that Rob dug up.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/oil-filter-adapter-to-oil-cooler-adapter-sealing/p55891-parker-hannifin-o-ring-p-2fn-2-230.html
lw8000 wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 16:41Greetings:
Recently during an oil change I noticed that as I was removing the filter, the adapter housing that is attached to the block was also turning slightly as well. I am going to take a closer look but before I do, is there something that holds the adapter in place so it doesn't turn? In looking at some diagrams and posts here I'm not entirely sure what keeps it from turning. I figured I would ask before I dive in to see what's up. Hopefully it's a simple fix.
Thanks,
Chris
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil cooler adapter at block [message #319513 is a reply to message #319506] |
Fri, 23 June 2017 18:12 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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G'day,
More information about the oil filter bas / oil cooler adapter than needed! :-)
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6677-oil-filter-adapter-to-oil-cooler-adapter-sealing.html
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris S.
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 6:41 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Oil cooler adapter at block
Greetings:
Recently during an oil change I noticed that as I was removing the filter, the adapter housing that is attached to the block was
also turning slightly as well. I am going to take a closer look but before I do, is there something that holds the adapter in place
so it doesn't turn? In looking at some diagrams and posts here I'm not entirely sure what keeps it from turning. I figured I would
ask before I dive in to see what's up. Hopefully it's a
simple fix.
Thanks,
Chris
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil cooler adapter at block [message #319515 is a reply to message #319513] |
Fri, 23 June 2017 20:25 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
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Notice on the second photo. There is a key that fits into the mating fitting to keep it from turning. The key also keeps the adapter facing the correct direction for the oil cooler lines. I've seen one or two adapters where it is apparent that the key was removed. A removed key equals a loose adapter.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil cooler adapter at block [message #319519 is a reply to message #319511] |
Fri, 23 June 2017 22:35 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
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This is a common area for leak.
One can use a gasket from the old oil filter and replace it. I believe we
have a gasket for that application.
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 3:37 PM, Chris S. wrote:
> C Boyd wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 16:58
>> Sir, the threads the oil filter screws on is an adapter bolt. 1 1/8"
> maybe? According to manual it is supposed to be removed at every filter
>> change and the gasket swapped with the gasket on the filter you just
> took off and retorqued. Some of us use a Vitar O ring that Rob dug up.
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/oil-filter-adapter-to-
> oil-cooler-adapter-sealing/p55891-parker-hannifin-o-ring-p-2fn-2-230.html
>
>
> Ah, got it. I will definitely be looking at that to make sure we are
> good, gasket and all. Thank you for clarifying this!
> --
> Chris S. -
> 77 Kingsley, 3.70 FD, mostly OEM -
> S.E. Michigan
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil cooler adapter at block [message #319523 is a reply to message #319519] |
Sat, 24 June 2017 00:52 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Jim,
You are correct, naturally but . . . . . . . . .
The depth of the groove in the oil cooler adapter is not as deep as the groove in an oil filter. The oil filter gasket when
installed in the oil cooler adapter stands proud above the groove and fills the groove completely. When the oil cooler adapter to
oil filter base retaining fitting is torqued to 55 ft lb the oil filter base and oil cooler adapter do not contact; there is no
metal to metal contact and over time the oil filter gasket cold flows, the torque drops and the interface leaks.
I edited this info on the GMC photo site to try and clarify it a bit.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6677-oil-filter-base-to-oil-cooler-adapter-sealing.html
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Kanomata
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 1:35 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Oil cooler adapter at block
This is a common area for leak.
One can use a gasket from the old oil filter and replace it. I believe we have a gasket for that application.
Jim Kanomata
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Oil cooler adapter at block [message #319525 is a reply to message #319506] |
Sat, 24 June 2017 08:27 |
lw8000
Messages: 201
Registered: July 2012
Location: S.E. Michigan
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Thanks so much guys! As a precaution I think I'll put on the gasket mentioned from Rob's post, just to be safe and ensure no leaks come up. I'll take a look at the key, too, I saw that in the pics but wasn't exactly sure how it locked or what it did. Always learning something new! Take care.
Chris S. -
77 Kingsley, 3.70 FD, mostly OEM -
S.E. Michigan
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| Re: Oil cooler adapter at block [message #319526 is a reply to message #319525] |
Sat, 24 June 2017 08:52 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Chris,
I used the recommended ring off of a Fram oil filter and tightened it to the spec. (I believe it is 55 Ft Lbs.) It will crush over time, so the next three oil changes I checked it again. On the first two it did require some additional tightening. On the 3rd it was just fine. I replaced it a least 12 years ago and have not needed to replace it again.
If it bothers you, replace it once and simply check that the thing is still tight during your next few oil changes.
I might replace it again in the next 5 years or so since it is easy to do.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil cooler adapter at block [message #319542 is a reply to message #319526] |
Sat, 24 June 2017 20:56 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Ken,
I checked Parts Book 78Z / Section 8 - Engine / Page 8-11 / 8.009 - FILTER - OIL and found P/N 643950 GASKET which I believe to be
between the oil filter base and oil filter adapter. Unfortunately there is no drawing so I couldn't tell if it was a square gasket
or a round o-ring. I checked other parts of the manual and noted that it uses "RING - "O" so P/N 643950 could in fact be the same
square gasket that is used in the oil filter. In the maintenance manual there is a line drawing and it sure looks like a square
gasket and not an o-ring:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/455-2f-403-engine-oil-flow-path/p58336-oil-filter-base-cooler-adapter-26amp-3b-filter.html
Having noted all the above based on my experience working with pneumatic and hydraulic systems I did not like using a seal in the
oil cooler adapter that completely filled the o-ring groove and stood proud of that groove.
Someone else had mentioned that they had success with the Dorman kit P/N 317-916 so I bought one from O'Reilly's. It is not an
o-ring either it has a rectangular cross section, however, it does not fill the groove completely. When I installed it I noticed
that I had to stretch it to get it over the ID of the oil cooler adapter ID. After torquing the extension that attaches the oil
cooler adapter to the oil filter base to 55 ft lb the oil filter base and oil filter adapter were a metal to metal fit and it did
not leak.
However, being a pedantic bugger I didn't like the fact that you had to stretch to install it I decided to contact Parker Hannifin
engineering. I gave them the dimensions of the groove and they came up with P/N PH 2-230.
When I installed that seal and torqued the extension to 55 ft lb once again I got a metal to metal fit and no leakage.
Conclusion: GMC probably did use the square gasket out of the oil filter between the oil filter base and oil cooler adapter.
However, over time it is likely to cold flow, loose torque, and leak. If you do use a gasket from a used oil filter I would suggest
cleaning all the oil off of it and the interfacing surfaces and installing it bone dry. That will help keep it from cold flowing.
IMO the best thing to do is to use the Parker Hannifin O-ring 2-230 followed by the Dorman 317-036.
Here's another example of an oil filter gasket that cold flowed and leaked:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/emergency-oil-cooler-line-repairs/p11683.html
Interesting information from John H. which kinda contradicts what I've noted above and is fine with me!
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6408-oil-filter-and-cooler.html
I reckon this horse has been flogged to DEATH!
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Burton
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 11:53 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Oil cooler adapter at block
Chris,
I used the recommended ring off of a Fram oil filter and tightened it to the spec. (I believe it is 55 Ft Lbs.) It will crush over
time, so the next three oil changes I checked it again. On the first two it did require some additional tightening. On the 3rd it
was just fine. I replaced it a least 12 years ago and have not needed to replace it again.
If it bothers you, replace it once and simply check that the thing is still tight during your next few oil changes.
I might replace it again in the next 5 years or so since it is easy to do.
--
Ken
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil cooler adapter at block [message #319547 is a reply to message #319543] |
Sun, 25 June 2017 09:30 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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I placed a VDO temperature sensor in the same spot. VDO sensor is a bit shorter, outside of the oil filter adapter, creating a little more space away from the engine block. Less apt to create problems for the sensor wire.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: Oil cooler adapter at block [message #319580 is a reply to message #319506] |
Mon, 26 June 2017 08:37 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Hello
RE Robs statement:
"Interesting information from John H. which kinda contradicts what I've noted above and is fine with me!"
I actually agree with him! Those photos were part of our long discussion quite a while ago that covered a lot of ground for that simple coupling. That ring is a result of incorrectly using an oil filter Gasket. It extruded itself to that shape. They are, simply, the wrong dimention. Now I see those photos again I see how they are can be misleading when not reading the descriptions or seeing the entire set in context. (I will make some clarifications)
Using an old oil filer gasket is wrong and I cannot believe there are still recomendations from good people to do that, and to do it on a regular basis.
"Extrusion","Loss of Torque", "leakage", "Rotation", Are all signs that it is the wrong solution. Removing the adaptor to regularly change that seal is also silly. OK if what you have now is not leaking, there is no reason to change it until it does.
The metal to metal contact, O ring,(even the Dorman seal) and proper torque of the adaptor bolt will keep that joint sealed. (As Rob stated) The key will keep things from rotating. At the recommended torque, that bolt should not loosen when the oil filter is removed. (The filter is not on that tight) If it does then that is more evidence of the wrong dimensions and the seal squirming.
Once you do it right the problem will go away.
I was able to get that size O-ring from a local seal solutions supplier very easily. There is nothing special about it. Ive also used the Dorman product and it is dry too.
Regards
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: Oil cooler adapter at block [message #319587 is a reply to message #319506] |
Mon, 26 June 2017 08:53 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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In addition
Here are some photos that were not in the same photo album, but part of the discussion. Please remember to read the descriptions.
Dorman oil cooler seal
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/discussion-photos/p55769-silicone-o-ring-for-oil-cooler-adaptor.html
Adaptor Bolt.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/discussion-photos/p55775-oil-cooler-adaptor-extension.html
Filter gasket
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/discussion-photos/p55781-best-not-to-use-old-filter-gasget.html
Extension bolt.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/discussion-photos/p55778-oil-cooler-adaptor-mounting-and-extension-bolt.html
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil cooler adapter at block [message #319589 is a reply to message #319587] |
Mon, 26 June 2017 09:17 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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John,
As I mentioned in an earlier message I come from the aerospace world and "we" would NEVER install an o-ring, gasket, seal, whatever
that fills the groove for it completely and stands proud of it too boot!
If one lubricates the seal on an oil filter then installs it hand tight I can't see how you would ever be able to turn the extension
(torqued to 55 ft lb) that retains the oil cooler adapter to the oil filter base when removing it.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of John Heslinga
In addition
Here are some photos that were not in the same photo album, but part of the discussion. Please remember to read the descriptions.
Dorman oil cooler seal
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/discussion-photos/p55769-silicone-o-ring-for-oil-cooler-adaptor.html
Adaptor Bolt.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/discussion-photos/p55775-oil-cooler-adaptor-extension.html
Filter gasket
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/discussion-photos/p55781-best-not-to-use-old-filter-gasget.html
Extension bolt.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/discussion-photos/p55778-oil-cooler-adaptor-mounting-and-extension-bolt.html
John
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Oil cooler adapter at block [message #319592 is a reply to message #319506] |
Mon, 26 June 2017 09:35 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Bob
I agree fully. Thats a good summary of what I was saying and part of my points. Many in tbe photo descriptions.
Using an old Oil filter seal is wrong. It may be a "work around" given that improper seals are not available. The adaptor seal should not be changed regularly as there would be no need for it if the correct seal is there in the first place. The space needs to allow expansion and distortion of tbe seal
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: Oil cooler adapter at block [message #319602 is a reply to message #319592] |
Mon, 26 June 2017 10:35 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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Gentlemen, in the real world I have had to remove many a overtightened oil filter with mechanical means and the adapter backed off some before filter released. I think the 1 1/4" adapter should be checked every time the filter is replaced no matter what gasket you use. Maybe this is why factory recommends changing gasket?
John Heslinga wrote on Mon, 26 June 2017 10:35Bob
I agree fully. Thats a good summary of what I was saying and part of my points. Many in tbe photo descriptions.
Using an old Oil filter seal is wrong. It may be a "work around" given that improper seals are not available. The adaptor seal should not be changed regularly as there would be no need for it if the correct seal is there in the first place. The space needs to allow expansion and distortion of tbe seal
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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