Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Xantrex inverter issue, opinions needed (Inverter appears to be overly sensitive to generator RPM's?)
| Xantrex inverter issue, opinions needed [message #317636] |
Tue, 16 May 2017 17:48  |
 |
GMC Jimmy
Messages: 199
Registered: September 2016
Location: Niagara, Ontario
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hello All, a local shop is installing my Xantrex freedom pure sine wave 2000 W inverter. Today I stopped by to see how they were making out, turns out the inverter appears to be overly sensitive to the generator RPM's so that it shuts down. I was under the impression from the feedback I received here on the forum that this is a good inverter for use in the GMC motorhome.
Has anybody else experienced this issue and if so how did you overcome it?
I don't really understand the technical side of the issue, however, it appears the problem resides with making the generator voltage more consistent which may be causing the inverter to shut down when it recognizes spikes or a drop in the Hz spectrum, does this make sense?
I have what I believe is the original Onan 6000 W generator, 1975 Royale by Coachmen.
As always your opinions are appreciated,
Regards,
Mike
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Xantrex inverter issue, opinions needed [message #317639 is a reply to message #317636] |
Tue, 16 May 2017 17:56  |
Emery Stora
Messages: 959
Registered: January 2011
Karma: 4
|
Senior Member |
|
|
The RPM (and associated frequency and voltage) should run in a fairly narrow band. I have Xantrex equipment in my motorhome and I’ve never had problems with it dropping out when the Onan is running.
I would suggest that you have someone that knows what they are doing take a look at your Onan and make the proper adjustments.
If you are near me I can help you — but, your signature line doesn’t say where you are located. You might want to include that in your emails.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
> On May 16, 2017, at 4:48 PM, Mike wrote:
>
> Hello All, a local shop is installing my Xantrex freedom pure sine wave 2000 W inverter. Today I stopped by to see how they were making out, turns out
> the inverter appears to be overly sensitive to the generator RPM's so that it shuts down. I was under the impression from the feedback I received here
> on the forum that this is a good inverter for use in the GMC motorhome.
>
> Has anybody else experienced this issue and if so how did you overcome it?
>
> I don't really understand the technical side of the issue, however, it appears the problem resides with making the generator voltage more consistent
> which may be causing the inverter to shut down when it recognizes spikes or a drop in the Hz spectrum, does this make sense?
>
> I have what I believe is the original Onan 6000 W generator, 1975 Royale by Coachmen.
>
> As always your opinions are appreciated,
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Xantrex inverter issue, opinions needed [message #317646 is a reply to message #317639] |
Tue, 16 May 2017 18:22 |
 |
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Emery,
He is from Niagara ON.
GMC Jimmy (aka Mike),
You came aboard when I was real busy and I missed it. There are two things I really like to do for new owners that show up here. One is important to both you and the rest of the forum and the other is sort of important to me.
First, go up to <Control Panel/Account Settings> and then scroll way down and you will find a place to put in a sigfile. It will help if you put in a real name because when you meet other GMC owners things will be less stupid. You can actually change your Alias, just not your login. You can also include a short bit about the coach(s)(year - model) because there are difference and some of those matter a lot. You will get better answers faster. And last, include a geographic reference. The half that read this board as e-mail don't see the header so they don't know where you are (we do have members on 4 or 5 continents) and it is nice to know if you are in range to be assisted.
These people are all very interested in seeing to it that you get to enjoy you coach as much as we do. This is so much like the watermen of my world that I just have to (this is the other thing) welcome all new owners here as any new owner or vessel is welcomed there. So,
May the Good Lord bless this coach and all those that set forth within her.
Welcome Mike to the group, family, cult, asylum....
Matt
Emery Stora wrote on Tue, 16 May 2017 18:56The RPM (and associated frequency and voltage) should run in a fairly narrow band. I have Xantrex equipment in my motorhome and I've never had problems with it dropping out when the Onan is running.
I would suggest that you have someone that knows what they are doing take a look at your Onan and make the proper adjustments.
If you are near me I can help you -- but, your signature line doesn't say where you are located. You might want to include that in your emails.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
> On May 16, 2017, at 4:48 PM, Mike wrote:
>
> Hello All, a local shop is installing my Xantrex freedom pure sine wave 2000 W inverter. Today I stopped by to see how they were making out, turns out
> the inverter appears to be overly sensitive to the generator RPM's so that it shuts down. I was under the impression from the feedback I received here
> on the forum that this is a good inverter for use in the GMC motorhome.
>
> Has anybody else experienced this issue and if so how did you overcome it?
>
> I don't really understand the technical side of the issue, however, it appears the problem resides with making the generator voltage more consistent
> which may be causing the inverter to shut down when it recognizes spikes or a drop in the Hz spectrum, does this make sense?
>
> I have what I believe is the original Onan 6000 W generator, 1975 Royale by Coachmen.
>
> As always your opinions are appreciated,
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
|
|
|
|
| Re: Xantrex inverter issue, opinions needed [message #317648 is a reply to message #317636] |
Tue, 16 May 2017 18:38 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
|
Senior Member |
|
|
GMC Jimmy wrote on Tue, 16 May 2017 17:48Hello All, a local shop is installing my Xantrex freedom pure sine wave 2000 W inverter. Today I stopped by to see how they were making out, turns out the inverter appears to be overly sensitive to the generator RPM's so that it shuts down. I was under the impression from the feedback I received here on the forum that this is a good inverter for use in the GMC motorhome.
Has anybody else experienced this issue and if so how did you overcome it?
I don't really understand the technical side of the issue, however, it appears the problem resides with making the generator voltage more consistent which may be causing the inverter to shut down when it recognizes spikes or a drop in the Hz spectrum, does this make sense?
I have what I believe is the original Onan 6000 W generator, 1975 Royale by Coachmen.
As always your opinions are appreciated,
Regards,
Mike
The factory spec for the Onan is 126V and 63Hz at no load and 110V and 59Hz at full load.
What are the max and min voltages and frequencies that the Xantrex can digest?
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Xantrex inverter issue, opinions needed [message #317649 is a reply to message #317639] |
Tue, 16 May 2017 18:29 |
Emery Stora
Messages: 959
Registered: January 2011
Karma: 4
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Well thats a bit far from me in the Denver area but I will be happy to email back and forth with him to give suggestions on how he can turn it himself.
Mike — send me an email to emerystora@mac.com .
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
77 Kin
> On May 16, 2017, at 4:56 PM, Emery Stora wrote:
>
> The RPM (and associated frequency and voltage) should run in a fairly narrow band. I have Xantrex equipment in my motorhome and I’ve never had problems with it dropping out when the Onan is running.
>
> I would suggest that you have someone that knows what they are doing take a look at your Onan and make the proper adjustments.
> If you are near me I can help you — but, your signature line doesn’t say where you are located. You might want to include that in your emails.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Frederick, CO
>
>> On May 16, 2017, at 4:48 PM, Mike wrote:
>>
>> Hello All, a local shop is installing my Xantrex freedom pure sine wave 2000 W inverter. Today I stopped by to see how they were making out, turns out
>> the inverter appears to be overly sensitive to the generator RPM's so that it shuts down. I was under the impression from the feedback I received here
>> on the forum that this is a good inverter for use in the GMC motorhome.
>>
>> Has anybody else experienced this issue and if so how did you overcome it?
>>
>> I don't really understand the technical side of the issue, however, it appears the problem resides with making the generator voltage more consistent
>> which may be causing the inverter to shut down when it recognizes spikes or a drop in the Hz spectrum, does this make sense?
>>
>> I have what I believe is the original Onan 6000 W generator, 1975 Royale by Coachmen.
>>
>> As always your opinions are appreciated,
>> Regards,
>> Mike
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Xantrex inverter issue, opinions needed [message #317652 is a reply to message #317636] |
Tue, 16 May 2017 18:53 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Mike,
There's something fishy about a conflict between the frequency of
generator's output and the inverter's output since the two should never
"meet".
AH HA!!! I did a Google search for the inverter you specify. Seems the
latest version of that inverter, unlike all previous inverters of which I'm
aware, doesn't automatically switch from an external 120vac source to
producing its own. Rather, it has a feature which "enables the Freedom SW
to supplement a generator¹ when AC loads exceed the generator’s capacity".
It also has nearly instantaneous recognition of input voltage variations
for switching from converter to inverter mode -- that may also be
problematic.
Those featuress introduce a whole new set of potential problems, and may
indeed make the inverter/charger incompatible with the Onan. The
suggestion that you have someone knowledgeable tune your Onan "to
perfection" is the only one I can suggest. Even then, unless the Xantrex
has some setting which allows the "load sharing" feature to be turned off,
I'd expect continued problems -- the Onan WILL change frequency, at least
slightly and momentarily, with load changes, and those will likely confuse
the Xantrex.
New ain't necessarily better in all cases. :-(
Ken H.
On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 6:48 PM, Mike wrote:
>
> Hello All, a local shop is installing my Xantrex freedom pure sine wave
2000 W inverter. Today I stopped by to see how they were making out, turns
out
> the inverter appears to be overly sensitive to the generator RPM's so
that it shuts down. I was under the impression from the feedback I received
here
> on the forum that this is a good inverter for use in the GMC motorhome.
>
> Has anybody else experienced this issue and if so how did you overcome it?
>
> I don't really understand the technical side of the issue, however, it
appears the problem resides with making the generator voltage more
consistent
> which may be causing the inverter to shut down when it recognizes spikes
or a drop in the Hz spectrum, does this make sense?
>
> I have what I believe is the original Onan 6000 W generator, 1975 Royale
by Coachmen.
>
> As always your opinions are appreciated,
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Xantrex inverter issue, opinions needed [message #317661 is a reply to message #317636] |
Tue, 16 May 2017 20:30 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Thanks for researching Ken. Yeah DC off the house battery should be smooth to the inverter. I wonder if he can dumb it down. That 'AC boost' feature is not needed with 6k Onan in a GMC.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Xantrex inverter issue, opinions needed [message #317663 is a reply to message #317660] |
Tue, 16 May 2017 21:09 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Mike,
It's obvious from your choice of that high priced Xantrex that you want
good quality. But perhaps your requirements are not great enough to
justify that "latest thing". Just what are your 120 vac requirements?
Also, you may want to consider the fact that the converter and inverter
functions, while complementary are essentially independent. Do you really
want to be without both while awaiting repair if one function fails? That
is, I personally prefer separate "boxes". And as John L. mentioned, there
would seem to be little requirement to supplement a 6kW generator, so why
not use a simpler transfer switch?
Just because the "latest" thing may not be compatible with our 40yo stuff
is no reason to think that Xantex equipment is less than premium.
Just some thoughts to ponder.
Ken H.
On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 9:23 PM, Mike wrote:
> Thanks Ken and to the others for input on this issue.
>
> Regarding your research Ken, it sounds like I should consider replacing
> the Xantrex with another inverter. The likelihood of tuning the Onan to run
> with such efficiency that the inverter will not be affected seems like a
> losing battle. My Onan runs fine but it is 42 years old with 1400+ hours and
> although these generators are extremely reliable I'm not sure I should
> invest in what might turn out to be an exercise in futility.
>
> Any other options or suggestions for another brand of inverter to consider?
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Xantrex inverter issue, opinions needed [message #317668 is a reply to message #317663] |
Wed, 17 May 2017 05:53 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Call the factory and discus it with them. This probably is not the first time this has happened. If so it will pop up for them again. Note I said "factory", not "customer support". Talk to the engineers who designed the device. There may be a way to "de-tune" it a bit.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
|
|
|
|
| Re: Xantrex inverter issue, opinions needed [message #317669 is a reply to message #317636] |
Wed, 17 May 2017 06:15 |
|
GMC Jimmy
Messages: 199
Registered: September 2016
Location: Niagara, Ontario
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Ken, thanks again for the feedback, in response to your questions...
Just what are your 120 vac requirements? I haven't really established my needs other to use the standard recommendations, add up the "estimated or anticipated" use of power required from the appliances etc and purchase an inverter to efficiently accomplish this. I estimated what my needs might be and decided on 2000 W, then I asked which inverters out there would do the job, after receiving opinions on this I chose the Xantrex unit.
I do have a PD converter-charger (transfer relay switch) series 5100.
Do you really want to be without both while awaiting repair if one function fails? ... My lack of knowledge is the main reason I decided to let someone else handle this for me. I have both the converter and inverter as separate "boxes" is this not the correct method or is there another?
My opinion is that the Xantrex is quality equipment, I didn't think it would be overkill for my application that is why I decided to go this way, however, if it exceeds the needs I'm anticipating I may consider going with a different inverter system.
What are my options if I don't want to use the generator, I'm not connected to shore power and I don't have solar but I want to enjoy use of 120V appliances?
Thanks again for the help,
Regards,
Mike
|
|
|
|
| Re: Xantrex inverter issue, opinions needed [message #317671 is a reply to message #317669] |
Wed, 17 May 2017 06:28 |
Justin Brady
Messages: 769
Registered: April 2015
Location: Bell Buckle, TN
Karma: 11
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I would give Xantrex a call and see if you can turn off the generator support mode, and possibly adjust the sensing time for the transfer switch.
My guess is the transfer switch and generator boost mode are set to turn on at a specified voltage drop (indicating a struggling generator) and the Onan is hunting a bit and hitting that lower voltage and triggering the switch and boost mode.
I don't quite understand boost mode anyway, personally I don't ever want to run more power than the Genny can put out because you'll eventually run through your batteries. (I'm sure it has safeguards for this though)
First thing I'd do is put a multimeter on the Onan output lines and see what kind of voltage it's putting out. You could just be out of adjustment and running high or low.
To answer your last question an inverter is what you want, the one you bought may just be a little too smart for the 40 year old coach. Just a standard 200w sine wave inverter will work. I run a 1200 watt version and it's plenty for me. All I run on it is a TV and the occasional plug in tool.
Justin Brady
http://www.thegmcrv.com/
1976 Palm Beach 455
[Updated on: Wed, 17 May 2017 06:31] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: Xantrex inverter issue, opinions needed [message #317676 is a reply to message #317636] |
Wed, 17 May 2017 08:11 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Someplace I have a rackmount inverter which claims 1KW supplied with a transmitter by the Quincy Tinworks when digital FM came along, requiring a UPS for the exciter which is essentially a computer with substantial reboot time. I propose to take the batteries out and use only the inverter part driven by the house batteries, should I need AC and the Onan won't start. It's a commercial UPS which will need a bit of modification in the switching section - a task I haven't gotten to yet. At the two dry camp venues I hit annually (Charlotte and Savannah) the Onan has so far run flawlessly. I've also got a hundred feet of #12 extension cord, I can borrow poer off one of my friends with a half million dollar diesel coach with a huge genset.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Xantrex inverter issue, opinions needed [message #317696 is a reply to message #317682] |
Wed, 17 May 2017 15:02 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I'm glad to hear the designers thought ahead well enough to make the
frequency adjustable. I suspect you'll also need to, if possible, disable
the load sharing feature. I don't see how that can possibly work unless
the generator and inverter are perfectly synchronized. Perhaps their
electronics are capable of that feat -- I'm skeptical.
Ken H.
On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 11:35 AM, Mike wrote:
> Okay I called Xantrex (Schneider Electronics) and spoke with a tech
> regarding this issue. The tech suggested "opening it up a little", when I
> asked
> him to clarify he indicated that the inverter comes from the factory with
> a frequency range of 55Hz to 65Hz, a range of 5Hz plus or minus the normal
> 60Hz.
>
> He indicated that increasing the frequency range by 10 plus or minus the
> normal, so 50Hz - 70Hz might take care of this issue.
>
> He agreed that one option is to have the Onan serviced in order to
> minimize the RPM hunting which should reduce or eliminate the inverter
> shutting
> down when sensing changes beyond the current factory parameters. He also
> agreed that this might be difficult due to the sensitive nature of the
> inverter electronics.
>
> I am inclined at this stage to consider changing the Xantrex unit in favor
> of something else less sophisticated. Once I have had a season under my
> belt I can modify this to accommodate my needs.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
|
|
|
|
| Re: Xantrex inverter issue, opinions needed [message #317699 is a reply to message #317636] |
Wed, 17 May 2017 15:52 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I'd also be concerned with backfeeding the Onan and doing damage to the generator. There are so many inexpensive smart converters out there by Progressive and Iota and then you can choose a sinewave inverter as needed.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
|
|
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Wed Oct 02 09:27:10 CDT 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.00780 seconds
|
GMCforum
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
