Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Stuck Fuel Gauge Needle (Needle seems stuck from Main GAS tank)
| Stuck Fuel Gauge Needle [message #317416] |
Thu, 11 May 2017 22:51  |
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Dutch Marc
Messages: 101
Registered: March 2017
Location: Full TIme Nomad
Karma: 1
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Hello again, This will be my 2nd post to this forum.
Since purchasing our newest family member "Mello Yello" 73' 26" Canyon Land we have been going on some smaller trips.
A few days ago whole driving out to Palm Spring the motorhome seems to shut off. No power steering..slow down ... I was able to pull over and park her safely along the I-5
Checked the Fuel gauge - showed Full (Past F !) Tried re-starting no Luck... Switch the Fuel Switch to 2nd Tank and started fine. For a while the needle seems to stick to the F ... but then dropped back.
I tried a few times during the trip to switch back to the main tank, the needle went back to "F"
Anyone out here has any experience wit this issues or might have a solution of how I can try to fix this?
Any help would be greatly appreciated, as a new GMCer and no Mechanical experience, I am not sure where to start ..
Again Thxs & Grtx Marc
1973 26' Canyon Land (Mello Yello) (TZE063v101302)
Full Time GMC Nomad ('98 NL 2 USA)
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| Re: Stuck Fuel Gauge Needle [message #317417 is a reply to message #317416] |
Thu, 11 May 2017 23:37  |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Are you sure it is a stuck fuel gage and not vapor lock? If it is warm out and you have a tank full of winter gas vapor lock would be a good bet.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: Stuck Fuel Gauge Needle [message #317430 is a reply to message #317416] |
Fri, 12 May 2017 07:56 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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The problem is not the dash gauge as you have proved it works in Aux. The switch on the dash is DPDT meaning it has "2 separate switchs in one". One side is a simple A/B selector to connect the guage to the sender in that tank and on to ground. The other side of the switch sends 12V to the fuel selelector valve back near the tanks. In Main it does nothing and the valve defaults to Main by an internal spring. In Aux it sends 12V to the fuel valve and it switches to the Aux tank by energizing the solenoid in the valve. There is a "damping" in the dash gauge needle to stop it from bouncing around as you drive so that delayed reaction is normal. You probably have a bad sender or tank ground on the Main tank.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Stuck Fuel Gauge Needle [message #317442 is a reply to message #317417] |
Fri, 12 May 2017 10:53 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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roy1 wrote on Thu, 11 May 2017 21:37Are you sure it is a stuck fuel gage and not vapor lock? If it is warm out and you have a tank full of winter gas vapor lock would be a good bet.
I will agree you may have a wire connection problem with the selector valve or a bad selector valve leaking internally.but if your tanks were mostly full don't rule out vapor lock putting you on the side of the road ,Palm Springs is in the desert . Actually my first encounter with vapor lock was traveling from LA to the Palm Springs area on the way to the river boat in tow. At the hwy 60 and 15 split I encountered vapor lock and had no idea what was going on as it was a long time ago before the Internet. After waiting for the temperature too cool we were on our way again. On the return run we had fresh gas so it helped a bunch. It could be a combination of problems that you are experiencing. I'm only responding to your statement that you lost power and had to pull off to the side of the road.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
[Updated on: Fri, 12 May 2017 11:01] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Stuck Fuel Gauge Needle [message #317562 is a reply to message #317559] |
Mon, 15 May 2017 11:12 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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73melloyello wrote on Mon, 15 May 2017 11:00roy1 wrote on Thu, 11 May 2017 21:37Are you sure it is a stuck fuel gage and not vapor lock? If it is warm out and you have a tank full of winter gas vapor lock would be a good bet.
Hi Roy1, thanks for the reply. Since I am very new to the GMC and it's community I was not sure what a vapor lock was. I did some reading and now know a little more about it.
The weather outside was warm or hot since we were going from LA to Palm Springs. The Fuel was fresh, I just filled up a few days before.
I am still trying to find out what is the best way to fill the tank(s) and let it burp ???? and how and when to use the Fuel switch.
FYI ... The fuel gauge has been working fine before. Not sure if this makes any difference with the solution people talked about here..
Thanks Again...
If the tanks burp when filling, it means there is something not right about the venting that comes from each tank to the filler neck. If you don't want to find and fix that, you will just have to learn the rate to fill and when to stop, let it gurgle, slowly pump some more, etc.
When to use the fuel switch: The way the filler plumbing is routed, both tanks deplete simultaneously until the level gets below the filler tube. That is about 6 - 7 gallons in each tank. If the gauge is working, it will start going down faster once you are drawing from the main tank only. You probably want to switch to the aux tank before the main tank is completely dry and the engine quits. I recommend filling up at or before the point that the gauge starts dropping faster.
When the gauge goes to "Full" and the tank is not full, there is probably a discontinuity in the wire from the sender to the gauge or between the sender and ground. The gauge might be faulty, or the float stuck, but my money would be on a wiring problem.
[Updated on: Mon, 15 May 2017 11:12] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Stuck Fuel Gauge Needle [message #317564 is a reply to message #317562] |
Mon, 15 May 2017 11:16 |
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Dutch Marc
Messages: 101
Registered: March 2017
Location: Full TIme Nomad
Karma: 1
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A Hamilto wrote on Mon, 15 May 2017 09:1273melloyello wrote on Mon, 15 May 2017 11:00roy1 wrote on Thu, 11 May 2017 21:37Are you sure it is a stuck fuel gage and not vapor lock? If it is warm out and you have a tank full of winter gas vapor lock would be a good bet.
Hi Roy1, thanks for the reply. Since I am very new to the GMC and it's community I was not sure what a vapor lock was. I did some reading and now know a little more about it.
The weather outside was warm or hot since we were going from LA to Palm Springs. The Fuel was fresh, I just filled up a few days before.
I am still trying to find out what is the best way to fill the tank(s) and let it burp ???? and how and when to use the Fuel switch.
FYI ... The fuel gauge has been working fine before. Not sure if this makes any difference with the solution people talked about here..
Thanks Again...
If the tanks burp when filling, it means there is something not right about the venting that comes from each tank to the filler neck. If you don't want to find and fix that, you will just have to learn the rate to fill and when to stop, let it gurgle, slowly pump some more, etc.
When to use the fuel switch: The way the filler plumbing is routed, both tanks deplete simultaneously until the level gets below the filler tube. That is about 6 - 7 gallons in each tank. If the gauge is working, it will start going down faster once you are drawing from the main tank only. You probably want to switch to the aux tank before the main tank is completely dry and the engine quits. I recommend filling up at or before the point that the gauge starts dropping faster.
When the gauge goes to "Full" and the tank is not full, there is probably a discontinuity in the wire from the sender to the gauge or between the sender and ground. The gauge might be faulty, or the float stuck, but my money would be on a wiring problem.
Thanks again, this helped a lot about how to fill the tanks... I will have a look at it and will keep you guys posted on what I find out with some more testing ...
1973 26' Canyon Land (Mello Yello) (TZE063v101302)
Full Time GMC Nomad ('98 NL 2 USA)
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| Re: Stuck Fuel Gauge Needle [message #317566 is a reply to message #317560] |
Mon, 15 May 2017 11:32 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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[quote title=73melloyello wrote on Mon, 15 May 2017 11:06]A Hamilto wrote on Thu, 11 May 2017 22:4573 Mello Yello wrote on Thu, 11 May 2017 22:51Hello again, This will be my 2nd post to this forum.
You have an intermittent connection problem between the gauge and the sender. When the connection is lost, the gauge goes to F. When it makes the connection again, it goes to E.
And your main tank IS empty.
Thanks for your reply. The sensor has been working OK before. Filled up her tank shortly before. I have been hearing about letting it burb etc. Not sure what the proper way is to fill up the tank(s)
The gas station that had a nozzle that only worked if I held the sleeve back manually so the fuel could flow,
Is shut of at $100, so that would be around 30+ Gal .. Woudl this mean that only the main tank got filled up?
Does it fill the main tank first and then the 2nd tank or do they level each out out, so it would be 50/50 full?
Thanks for your input..
Grtx Marc
The filler tube is ONE tube of about 1-1/8" If goes to BOTH tanks. The tube enters the tanks on the side. Not the top and not the bottom. So when the fuel level is above about 1/4, the fuel is free to travel back an forth between the two tanks through the filler tube. It constantly this while driving. There obviously is more between the tank flow going up and down hills.
So at any level above 1/4, the fuel gauge should read about the same whether you are looking at the main (rear) tank or the aux (front) tank. Below the 1/4 level the fuel no longer travels between the front and the rear as you drive. So it is now possible to pull gas from only one tank until it is completely dry. At that point, or before it goes completely dry, you can switch tanks with the switch on the dash and the the gauge should show you the level in the opposite tank.
I hope that helps.
Ken B.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Stuck Fuel Gauge Needle [message #317567 is a reply to message #317563] |
Mon, 15 May 2017 11:32 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Go by the amount of fuel that you pump into the tanks. Assume that you were
empty on both tanks before you started fueling the coach. The coaches, if
in a good state of tune and are not towing something, get 8 to 10 miles per
gallon. So, 50 gallons of fuel will get you 500 miles down the road under
perfect conditions. Note the odometer reading, and drive 250 miles and
refuel. FORGET ABOUT THE FUEL GAGE. IT IS NOTORIOUS FOR BEING GROSSLY
INACCURATE. As you become more familiar with the coach, you can do a better
job of estimating fuel economy. Headwinds affect economy as much as towing
does. if you drive faster than 70 mph, it will affect economy. If you have
a vacuum gage installed, anytime you are under 5" of mercury, you will be
in maximum enrichment mode with the carb, and it will effect economy. But
even with all these issues happening, you still can drive 250 miles without
refueling, that is 5 hours of seat time, and you need to stop and pee, and
walk around after you have sat that long anyway. Especially if you are over
55. Even when these coaches were new, the fuel systems were problems
looking for a place to happen. Can you fix them? Only by creating an whole
new set of problems. Others opinions WILL VARY.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 9:12 AM, Dutch Marc wrote:
> JohnL455 wrote on Fri, 12 May 2017 05:56
>> The problem is not the dash gauge as you have proved it works in Aux.
> The switch on the dash is DPDT meaning it has "2 separate switchs in one".
>> One side is a simple A/B selector to connect the guage to the sender in
> that tank and on to ground. The other side of the switch sends 12V to the
>> fuel selelector valve back near the tanks. In Main it does nothing and
> the valve defaults to Main by an internal spring. In Aux it sends 12V to the
>> fuel valve and it switches to the Aux tank by energizing the solenoid
> in the valve. There is a "damping" in the dash gauge needle to stop it from
>> bouncing around as you drive so that delayed reaction is normal. You
> probably have a bad sender or tank ground on the Main tank.
>
>
> Hi John, Thanks for your input. I start to get a little better
> understanding of the fuel tank workings.
>
> Since the gauge was working fine before, it seems to start having this
> issue after I filled her up. I know that working before does not mean
> working
> forever :) and something could have changed or gone bad. Just
> trying/hoping that it could be some small issue instead of replacing the
> sensor in the
> tank. Did a little research on some past postings etc. Seems like a bigger
> job that I can handle myself for now :(
>
> It has been a few days since we have been back from the trip. I will get
> her started and see if the issue still persist. I hope it somehow magically
> went away :)
>
> Thanks again & Grtx Marc
>
>
> --
> 1973 26' Canyon Land (Mello Yello) (TZE063v101302)
> Los Angeles, CA ('98 NL 2 USA)
>
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Stuck Fuel Gauge Needle [message #317568 is a reply to message #317566] |
Mon, 15 May 2017 11:35 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Read here
http://gmcmotorhome.info/tank.html
On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 9:33 AM Ken Burton wrote:
> [quote title=73melloyello wrote on Mon, 15 May 2017 11:06]A Hamilto wrote
> on Thu, 11 May 2017 22:45
>> 73 Mello Yello wrote on Thu, 11 May 2017 22:51
>>> Hello again, This will be my 2nd post to this forum.
>>>
>>> You have an intermittent connection problem between the gauge and the
> sender. When the connection is lost, the gauge goes to F. When it makes
>>> the connection again, it goes to E.
>>>
>>> And your main tank IS empty.
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your reply. The sensor has been working OK before. Filled up
> her tank shortly before. I have been hearing about letting it burb etc.
>> Not sure what the proper way is to fill up the tank(s)
>>
>> The gas station that had a nozzle that only worked if I held the sleeve
> back manually so the fuel could flow,
>>
>> Is shut of at $100, so that would be around 30+ Gal .. Woudl this mean
> that only the main tank got filled up?
>>
>> Does it fill the main tank first and then the 2nd tank or do they level
> each out out, so it would be 50/50 full?
>>
>> Thanks for your input..
>>
>> Grtx Marc
>
>
> The filler tube is ONE tube of about 1-1/8" If goes to BOTH tanks. The
> tube enters the tanks on the side. Not the top and not the bottom. So when
> the fuel level is above about 1/4, the fuel is free to travel back an
> forth between the two tanks through the filler tube. It constantly this
> while
> driving. There obviously is more between the tank flow going up and down
> hills.
>
> So at any level above 1/4, the fuel gauge should read about the same
> whether you are looking at the main (rear) tank or the aux (front) tank.
> Below
> the 1/4 level the fuel no longer travels between the front and the rear as
> you drive. So it is now possible to pull gas from only one tank until it
> is completely dry. At that point, or before it goes completely dry, you
> can switch tanks with the switch on the dash and the the gauge should show
> you the level in the opposite tank.
>
> I hope that helps.
>
> Ken B.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Stuck Fuel Gauge Needle [message #317574 is a reply to message #317568] |
Mon, 15 May 2017 12:58 |
mghamms
Messages: 466
Registered: March 2016
Location: Ware, Massachusetts
Karma: 2
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Interesting, go to this site hit index at the bottom of the page.
[quote title=Mr ERFisher wrote on Mon, 15 May 2017 11:35]Read here
http://gmcmotorhome.info/tank.html
On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 9:33 AM Ken Burton wrote:
> 73melloyello wrote on Mon, 15 May 2017 11:06A Hamilto wrote
> on Thu, 11 May 2017 22:45
>> 73 Mello Yello wrote on Thu, 11 May 2017 22:51
>>> Hello again, This will be my 2nd post to this forum.
>>>
>>> You have an intermittent connection problem between the gauge and the
> sender. When the connection is lost, the gauge goes to F. When it makes
>>> the connection again, it goes to E.
>>>
>>> And your main tank IS empty.
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your reply. The sensor has been working OK before. Filled up
> her tank shortly before. I have been hearing about letting it burb etc.
>> Not sure what the proper way is to fill up the tank(s)
>>
>> The gas station that had a nozzle that only worked if I held the sleeve
> back manually so the fuel could flow,
>>
>> Is shut of at $100, so that would be around 30+ Gal .. Woudl this mean
> that only the main tank got filled up?
>>
>> Does it fill the main tank first and then the 2nd tank or do they level
> each out out, so it would be 50/50 full?
>>
>> Thanks for your input..
>>
>> Grtx Marc
>
>
> The filler tube is ONE tube of about 1-1/8" If goes to BOTH tanks. The
> tube enters the tanks on the side. Not the top and not the bottom. So when
> the fuel level is above about 1/4, the fuel is free to travel back an
> forth between the two tanks through the filler tube. It constantly this
> while
> driving. There obviously is more between the tank flow going up and down
> hills.
>
> So at any level above 1/4, the fuel gauge should read about the same
> whether you are looking at the main (rear) tank or the aux (front) tank.
> Below
> the 1/4 level the fuel no longer travels between the front and the rear as
> you drive. So it is now possible to pull gas from only one tank until it
> is completely dry. At that point, or before it goes completely dry, you
> can switch tanks with the switch on the dash and the the gauge should show
> you the level in the opposite tank.
>
> I hope that helps.
>
> Ken B.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts
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| Re: [GMCnet] Stuck Fuel Gauge Needle [message #317582 is a reply to message #317560] |
Mon, 15 May 2017 18:47 |
bdub
Messages: 1578
Registered: February 2004
Location: Central Texas
Karma: 5
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This will help you understand our tank araingment.
http://gmcmotorhome.info/tank.html
bdub
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist On Behalf Of Dutch Marc
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 11:06 AM
[quote title=A Hamilto wrote on Thu, 11 May 2017 22:45]73 Mello Yello wrote on
Thu, 11 May 2017 22:51
> Hello again, This will be my 2nd post to this forum.
>
> You have an intermittent connection problem between the gauge and the
> sender. When the connection is lost, the gauge goes to F. When it makes the
connection again, it goes to E.
>
> And your main tank IS empty.
Thanks for your reply. The sensor has been working OK before. Filled up her tank
shortly before. I have been hearing about letting it burb etc. Not sure what the
proper way is to fill up the tank(s)
The gas station that had a nozzle that only worked if I held the sleeve back
manually so the fuel could flow,
Is shut of at $100, so that would be around 30+ Gal .. Woudl this mean that only
the main tank got filled up?
Does it fill the main tank first and then the 2nd tank or do they level each out
out, so it would be 50/50 full?
Thanks for your input..
_______________________________________________
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bdub
'76 Palm Beach/Central Texas
www.bdub.net
www.gmcmhphotos.com
www.gmcmotorhomemarketplace.com
www.gmcmhregistry.com
www.facebook.com/groups/classicgmcmotorhomes
www.facebook.com/groups/gmcmm
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| Re: [GMCnet] Stuck Fuel Gauge Needle [message #317585 is a reply to message #317572] |
Mon, 15 May 2017 20:48 |
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Dutch Marc
Messages: 101
Registered: March 2017
Location: Full TIme Nomad
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Hi Matt, Thanks for that info. That remind me of another GMCer that mentioned the same hack from a piece of Pipe insulation from Home Depot.
I will swing by and pick up a piece and see if I can figure out the size (length) to cut it.
Grtx Marc
RV-ing the Dream - '73 Mello Yello
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GMC_motorhome
On May 15, 2017, 10:42 AM -0700, Matt Colie , wrote:
> Marc,
>
> While Jim Hupy is correct that the gages are notably unreliable, a lot of the problem is that the fuel system was not designed for the foamy fuel of
> today. Part of this can be mitigated by separating the fill vent lines as far up in the coach as you can.
>
> That is only part of your problem. The fuel nozzle is a CARB issue with the vapor recovery. I know nothing about this, but I have been told that if
> you buy a pool noddle (long piece of PE foam tubing that is sold cheaply as a pool toy) you can cut a short piece that will satisfy the CARB fuel fill
> nozzle.
>
> A gage that reads full regardless of the tank fill indicates an open circuit between the switch and the sending unit.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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1973 26' Canyon Land (Mello Yello) (TZE063v101302)
Full Time GMC Nomad ('98 NL 2 USA)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Stuck Fuel Gauge Needle [message #317586 is a reply to message #317582] |
Mon, 15 May 2017 20:42 |
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Dutch Marc
Messages: 101
Registered: March 2017
Location: Full TIme Nomad
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Thanks Billy, That made things a lot clearer.
Also …
Back home in Holland when I was younger (LOL) I remember people had a little plastic device glued to there dashboards to keep track of the milage. It was something very simple with 5 rotary nails that could have turned to match other the current odometer or the projected refuel odometer reading. Sorry don’t know how to better describe the device. I would guess it was a piece of plastic for $5..
Since I don’t know the name of the device I have a hard time finding it on Amazon. I would prefer this over any digital device to keep track of my re-full miles. I was easy to read and compare instead of writing it on a piece of paper.
Any1 out here that has a suggestion or knows the name of this tool?
Thanks Marc
RV-ing the Dream - '73 Mello Yello
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GMC_motorhome
On May 15, 2017, 4:48 PM -0700, Billy Massey , wrote:
> This will help you understand our tank araingment.
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/tank.html
>
> bdub
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gmclist On Behalf Of Dutch Marc
> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 11:06 AM
>
> [quote title=A Hamilto wrote on Thu, 11 May 2017 22:45]73 Mello Yello wrote on
> Thu, 11 May 2017 22:51
>> Hello again, This will be my 2nd post to this forum.
>>
>> You have an intermittent connection problem between the gauge and the
>> sender. When the connection is lost, the gauge goes to F. When it makes the
> connection again, it goes to E.
>>
>> And your main tank IS empty.
>
>
> Thanks for your reply. The sensor has been working OK before. Filled up her tank
> shortly before. I have been hearing about letting it burb etc. Not sure what the
> proper way is to fill up the tank(s)
>
> The gas station that had a nozzle that only worked if I held the sleeve back
> manually so the fuel could flow,
>
> Is shut of at $100, so that would be around 30+ Gal .. Woudl this mean that only
> the main tank got filled up?
>
> Does it fill the main tank first and then the 2nd tank or do they level each out
> out, so it would be 50/50 full?
>
> Thanks for your input..
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
1973 26' Canyon Land (Mello Yello) (TZE063v101302)
Full Time GMC Nomad ('98 NL 2 USA)
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and something could have changed or gone bad. Just trying/hoping that it could be some small issue instead of replacing the sensor in the tank. Did a little research on some past postings etc. Seems like a bigger job that I can handle myself for now 
