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Engine Air Conditioner [message #316800]

Sat, 29 April 2017 15:22

ree_eric

Messages: 43
Registered: February 2004
Location: Alexandria, Ontario, Cana...

Karma: 0

Member

I had to unbolt the air conditioner compressor to install stainless steel exhaust cross over block off plates. I also have the inner fenders out. The compressor is very heavy on has not run for at least 12 years and the system has no pressure. Is the anything I should do while I have easier access to it? Seals, rebuild, new? Any way of testing the condenser, evaporator and lines before refilling? The compressor hoses have hose clamps on them, does this work? The heater box is open and there is no recirc flapper (1975). Should I do the modification to allow some recirc? Did I miss anything?

Eric & Ree '74 ex-Sequoia (parts) '75 Eleganza (TB, exhaust x-over blocking plates, Manny reaction arms and discs, 3"exhaust rear muffler, aux vacuum, fuel tank sealing, rebuilt senders and new rubber, propane hot water heater.) Alexandria, Ontario, Canada

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Re: Engine Air Conditioner [message #316802 is a reply to message #316800]

Sat, 29 April 2017 15:41

A Hamilto

Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011

Karma: 39

Senior Member

ree_eric wrote on Sat, 29 April 2017 15:22

I had to unbolt the air conditioner compressor to install stainless steel exhaust cross over block off plates. I also have the inner fenders out. The compressor is very heavy on has not run for at least 12 years and the system has no pressure. Is the anything I should do while I have easier access to it? Seals, rebuild, new? Any way of testing the condenser, evaporator and lines before refilling? The compressor hoses have hose clamps on them, does this work? The heater box is open and there is no recirc flapper (1975). Should I do the modification to allow some recirc? Did I miss anything?

If it has not worked for 12 years, why do you need it now?

Generally, hose clamps are not reliable in this application.

Easiest approach: Put the compressor back, replace the dehydrator, pull a vacuum on the system (or have an auto AC shop do the dehydrator and vacuum), put in 3 cans of Duracool. See how long it works.

Next hardest, more dollars: Buy hoses and a dehydrator from Jim K. and replace the ones you got. Get the vacuum work done so it holds a vacuum. Take it home and put 3 cans of Duracool in it.

Some have replaced the seals in theirs. I don't know if I could do it, so not going to tell you that you should. There are tutorials around for doing it. Taking it someplace to have it done is hit or miss. You might get back a foreign rebuild instead of the original.

Easiest: Take it to an auto AC place and tell them to make it work. They will want to replace all the plumbing, AND convert it over to R134a. Then it won't cool as good as OEM. And they will want exorbitant dollars to do that to you.

What I would do with infinite dollars: Buy a compressor, hoses, dehydrator from Jim K. and install them. Take it someplace and have them vacuum it down, and fix any leaks. Tell them when they get it to hold a vacuum, STOP. Take it home and put 3 cans of Duracool in it.

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Re: Engine Air Conditioner [message #316849 is a reply to message #316800]

Sun, 30 April 2017 17:42

jhbridges

Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga

Karma: -74

Senior Member

Along those lines, see the air conditioner seal party we had at Ted Petty's place a couple or three years back. It requires a few specialized tools to renew the seals in the A6 compressor. If you have them it isn't hard. If you don't, it's probably simpler to have a shop rebuild and reseal it, or buy a rebuilt from one of the warranty suppliers like Advance our AutoZone or the like. When it dies, take it back and get another. If you can pull a vacuum on it and it will hold overnight, it will likely work. Throw some mineral oil and Duracool in it and it should work. Replace any lines with hose clamps. You should use manufactured hoses with the proper fittings swaged on them.
Realize, the dash air conditioner isn't great when it's working. If you have a curtain behind the seats, it will keep the cab comfortable. For the whole coach, spin off the genset and fire up the roof units.

--johnny

Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

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Re: Engine Air Conditioner [message #316859 is a reply to message #316800]

Sun, 30 April 2017 20:22

Jon payne

Messages: 495
Registered: May 2008

Karma: 1

Senior Member

Hi Eric,

Just resealed my original A6. Was very straight forward. Get get the tool to remove the clutch drive plate from AutoZone, free rental. No other special tools needed as you can install the newer double lip seal, instead of the two-piece carbon seal. Got a complete seal kit, including a how to YouTube from here: http://www.centuryautoair.com/. Nice people to deal with.

Jon

Jon Payne
76 Palm Beach
Westfield,IN

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Re: [GMCnet] Engine Air Conditioner [message #316884 is a reply to message #316859]

Mon, 01 May 2017 08:58

Keith V

Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN

Karma: 0

Senior Member

Pull a vacuum first see if it holds, it's cheaper to buy a vacuum pump and gauges from Harbor freight than it is to pay someone to do it once.

I bought Jims aluminum compressor, I'm not hating it, tho it does have these bolts on the pully edge that WILL cut your hoses if you're not carefull!!

________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Jon Payne
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2017 8:22:16 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Engine Air Conditioner

Hi Eric,

Just resealed my original A6. Was very straight forward. Get get the tool to remove the clutch drive plate from AutoZone, free rental. No other
special tools needed as you can install the newer double lip seal, instead of the two-piece carbon seal. Got a complete seal kit, including a how to
YouTube from here: http://www.centuryautoair.com/. Nice people to deal with.

Jon
--
Jon Payne
76 Palm Beach
Westfield,IN

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Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com

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Re: [GMCnet] Engine Air Conditioner [message #317049 is a reply to message #316884]

Wed, 03 May 2017 20:28

ree_eric

Messages: 43
Registered: February 2004
Location: Alexandria, Ontario, Cana...

Karma: 0

Member

Thanks to all for the advice. I will try to pull a vacuum first. If I change the lines is a 2nd evaporator worth doing at the same time? They start at %75 It could perhaps fit under the passenger seat but I was just starting to mount the throttle body computer there. Drivers seat would take longer hoses. Going light weight, no roof air or large generator.
UNIVERSAL UNDERDASH AC EVAPORATOR
15 3/4"W x 13 1/2"D x 5 3/4"H
12V
high impact injected plastic case
32 pass 4way all Alumunim coil
Expansion valve
Electric thermostat and 3speed blower switch
Mounting brackets and drain hose and T included
13,700 BTU capacity
359 CFM

Eric & Ree '74 ex-Sequoia (parts) '75 Eleganza (TB, exhaust x-over blocking plates, Manny reaction arms and discs, 3"exhaust rear muffler, aux vacuum, fuel tank sealing, rebuilt senders and new rubber, propane hot water heater.) Alexandria, Ontario, Canada

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Re: [GMCnet] Engine Air Conditioner [message #317053 is a reply to message #317049]

Wed, 03 May 2017 20:53

Jp Benson

Messages: 649
Registered: October 2011
Location: Fla

Karma: 2

Senior Member

If the system has no refrigerant then it has already leaked out once. It would be surprising if it didn't leak after 12 yrs being idle. If you have a vacuum pump then it's OK to try but that will likely just suck more air into the system. I would be more inclined to add refrigerant (vapor only) and check likely leak spots with some soap bubbles. Same as with the vacuum - let it sit overnight and see if it holds steady.

JP

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Re: Engine Air Conditioner [message #317059 is a reply to message #316800]

Thu, 04 May 2017 08:21

JohnL455

Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL

Karma: 12

Senior Member

Actually the front compressor seal is to some small extent "self healing". Use redistrbutes the oil film which helps the seal work. In it's current state of disuse it is most likely not sealing well. Though it may not be "bad" .

John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

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Re: [GMCnet] Engine Air Conditioner [message #317061 is a reply to message #317059]

Thu, 04 May 2017 08:47

Keith V

Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN

Karma: 0

Senior Member

I would and did add the second evap, I love it I put mine under the couch with a fan switch up under the drivers seat.

I brought it to a place that made and ran the hoses. Sure helps cool the house while underway

________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of John R.Lebetski
Sent: Thursday, May 4, 2017 8:21:08 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Engine Air Conditioner

Actually the front compressor seal is to some small extent "self healing". Use redistrbutes the oil film which helps the seal work. In it's current
state of disuse it is most likely not sealing well. Though it may not be "bad" .
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

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Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com

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Re: Engine Air Conditioner [message #317100 is a reply to message #316800]

Thu, 04 May 2017 22:03

RoadWarrior

Messages: 28
Registered: April 2017
Location: Arizona

Karma: 0

Junior Member

Hose clamps: Depends on what type they are. There are wider heavier screw clamps that are made for AC hose. Band clamps work well.

There are a number of orings where the lines connect to the condenser and evaporator. Often these are bad (leak), just make sure you use the correct type and size.

These compressors are quite durable, can be rebuilt. Check U-tube and the maintenance manual. To pull the clutch and seals you do need a few special tools. They don't call these compressors "boat anchors" for nothing and depending on funds you might want to consider installing a more modern lighter compressor. There are a number of kits available for doing so and there is quite a bit of information on this on some of the GMC Motorhome websites.

If you have a vacuum pump you can do some preliminary leak checking by pumping the system down and then "valving off" the vacuum pump from the system.

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Re: Engine Air Conditioner [message #317142 is a reply to message #316800]

Sat, 06 May 2017 23:35

tgeiger

Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city

Karma: -1

Senior Member

Where is everyone getting their Duracool now adays? Looking to get a case of 12 cans if available.

Tom Geiger 76 Eleganza II KCMO

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Re: [GMCnet] Engine Air Conditioner [message #317144 is a reply to message #317142]

Sun, 07 May 2017 08:57

powwerjon

Messages: 849
Registered: March 2013

Karma: -2

Senior Member

Tom,
Search for duracool online.

http://durafrio.com/index.html
and

J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
Newsletter Editor/Publisher
Tech Editor
78 Buskirk 30' Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan

> On May 7, 2017, at 12:35 AM, tom geiger wrote:
>
> Where is everyone getting their Duracool now adays? Looking to get a case of 12 cans if available.
>
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Re: Engine Air Conditioner [message #317145 is a reply to message #317142]

Sun, 07 May 2017 09:06

A Hamilto

Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011

Karma: 39

Senior Member

tgeiger wrote on Sat, 06 May 2017 23:35

Where is everyone getting their Duracool now adays? Looking to get a case of 12 cans if available.

If you can't find it locally, go to http://www.duracool.com/ecom/shoppingcart.html

At the bottom of the main page "United States Residents - Purchase On Line". Press the button and it takes you to the URL above for ordering.

Scroll down and click on the link for a case of 12: http://ww8.aitsafe.com/cf/add.cfm?userid=A0114205&product=Case+of+12+Duracool+Refrigerant+F006&hash=fb9a7d33d2d420fbb40fc6484cdcd2cf&price =89.88&scode=Case_of_12&return=www.duracool.com/ecom/shoppingcart.html

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Re: Engine Air Conditioner [message #317146 is a reply to message #317142]

Sun, 07 May 2017 09:27

A Hamilto

Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011

Karma: 39

Senior Member

tgeiger wrote on Sat, 06 May 2017 23:35

Where is everyone getting their Duracool now adays? Looking to get a case of 12 cans if available.

Your sig says you are in Kansas City. FWIW, hydrocarbon based refrigerants in automotive AC is illegal in Kansas, but not Missouri. "Kansas City" is ambiguous because it could be in either state.

The laws were driven by lobbyists for the greedy refrigerant monopoly, not the environment or what's beneficial to the constituents. So do what works for you.

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Re: [GMCnet] Engine Air Conditioner [message #317147 is a reply to message #317142]

Sun, 07 May 2017 09:42

scott cowden

Messages: 170
Registered: February 2004

Karma: 0

Senior Member

Hi Tom;

I don’t recall where you’re located but have noticed that Duracool is easier to find in the Great White North of Canada than in the U.S.

Here it’s actually on the shelf in the Automotive section of Walmart.

Also available in a great Canadian store called Princess Auto, which is a cross between Pep Boys and an upper tier Harbour Freight. online at www.princessauto.ca

Scott
‘74 x-Glacier
Orillia ON
Canada

Sent from Windows Mail

From: tom geiger
Sent: ‎Sunday‎, ‎May‎ ‎7‎, ‎2017 ‎12‎:‎36‎ ‎AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org

Where is everyone getting their Duracool now adays? Looking to get a case of 12 cans if available.

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Re: Engine Air Conditioner [message #317149 is a reply to message #316800]

Sun, 07 May 2017 11:03

tgeiger

Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city

Karma: -1

Senior Member

Sorry guys, my bad. I'm in KCMO. Thanks for the links. I've found the case goes for around 90$ plus 20 shipping, where as if I order 3 cans at 20$, free shipping the it would be 12 for 80$, if my Jethro Clampet, 3rd grade math is correct??

Tom Geiger 76 Eleganza II KCMO

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Re: Engine Air Conditioner [message #317154 is a reply to message #316800]

Sun, 07 May 2017 14:56

tgeiger

Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city

Karma: -1

Senior Member

Sorry, bad info given to me. I guess it was 20 bucks a can rather than for 3. Found a alternative "Frosty Cool" 50$ a case of 12

Tom Geiger 76 Eleganza II KCMO

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Re: Engine Air Conditioner [message #317159 is a reply to message #317154]

Sun, 07 May 2017 16:27

pzerkel

Messages: 212
Registered: September 2007
Location: Salisbury, IL

Karma: 0

Senior Member

tgeiger wrote on Sun, 07 May 2017 14:56

Sorry, bad info given to me. I guess it was 20 bucks a can rather than for 3. Found a alternative "Frosty Cool" 50$ a case of 12

I am pretty certain this has been discussed here before...

But I am almost certain that FrostyKool is not Duracool nor any kind of HC12a. I believe it is basically 134a with some kind of additives to supposedly make it compatible with old systems.

Paul Zerkel
'78 Eleganza II
Salisbury IL (near Springfield)

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Re: Engine Air Conditioner [message #317160 is a reply to message #316800]

Sun, 07 May 2017 16:32

pzerkel

Messages: 212
Registered: September 2007
Location: Salisbury, IL

Karma: 0

Senior Member

I just searched some old posts. I may be wrong.

I really do not know.

Paul Zerkel
'78 Eleganza II
Salisbury IL (near Springfield)

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Re: [GMCnet] Engine Air Conditioner [message #317166 is a reply to message #317159]

Sun, 07 May 2017 18:40

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

G'day,

I posted this info awhile back:

Tiny URL: http://tinyurl.com/nuhwtb4

Full URL:
http://www.frostycool.com/FrostyCool-r12a-refrigerant-replacement-for-r-12-f
reon-substitutes-18-oz-equivalent-1-case-12x-cans/

I spoke to a sales rep from this company and he advised that FrostyCool is
the SAME gas as Duracool.

Here's the math:

Case of 12 cans: $49.95
UPS Ground to TX: $14.90
Total $64.85

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Paul
Zerkel
Sent: Monday, May 8, 2017 7:27 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Engine Air Conditioner

tgeiger wrote on Sun, 07 May 2017 14:56
> Sorry, bad info given to me. I guess it was 20 bucks a can rather than for
3. Found a alternative "Frosty Cool" 50$ a case of 12

I am pretty certain this has been discussed here before...

But I am almost certain that FrostyKool is not Duracool nor any kind of
HC12a. I believe it is basically 134a with some kind of additives to
supposedly make it compatible with old systems.

--
Paul Zerkel
'78 Eleganza II
Salisbury IL (near Springfield)

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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