Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Transmission Replacement This Weekend
| Transmission Replacement This Weekend [message #308057] |
Fri, 30 September 2016 13:20  |
Jon payne
Messages: 495
Registered: May 2008
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Going to replace the transmission on Saturday with one I got from Manny. Will remove the tranny with the FD in place as Manny says he does. Seems pretty straight forward. Also fabricated a hoist just like the one Manny uses.
Any other tips from those that have done this job in the past is most appreciated!
I'll post some pics afterwards.
Jon
Jon Payne
76 Palm Beach
Westfield,IN
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Replacement This Weekend [message #308059 is a reply to message #308057] |
Fri, 30 September 2016 14:07  |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Only one, have Manny install it 😜
Sully
On Friday, September 30, 2016, Jon Payne wrote:
> Going to replace the transmission on Saturday with one I got from Manny.
> Will remove the tranny with the FD in place as Manny says he does. Seems
> pretty straight forward. Also fabricated a hoist just like the one Manny
> uses.
>
> Any other tips from those that have done this job in the past is most
> appreciated!
>
> I'll post some pics afterwards.
>
> Jon
> --
> Jon Payne
> 76 Palm Beach
> Westfield,IN
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Replacement This Weekend [message #308061 is a reply to message #308057] |
Fri, 30 September 2016 14:35 |
Dolph Santorine
Messages: 1236
Registered: April 2011
Location: Wheeling, WV
Karma: -41
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Senior Member |
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I’ve only done it at the same time as the engine. With a transmission from Manny.
Dolph
DE N8JPC
Wheeling, West Virginia
1977 26’ ex-PalmBeach
1-Ton, Sullybilt Bags, Reaction Arms, 3.70 LSD, Manny Transmission, EV-6010
“The Aluminum and Fiberglass Mistress"
> On Sep 30, 2016, at 2:20 PM, Jon Payne wrote:
>
> Going to replace the transmission on Saturday with one I got from Manny. Will remove the tranny with the FD in place as Manny says he does. Seems
> pretty straight forward. Also fabricated a hoist just like the one Manny uses.
>
> Any other tips from those that have done this job in the past is most appreciated!
>
> I'll post some pics afterwards.
>
> Jon
> --
> Jon Payne
> 76 Palm Beach
> Westfield,IN
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Replacement This Weekend [message #308063 is a reply to message #308061] |
Fri, 30 September 2016 15:16 |
Burt and Faye curtis
Messages: 256
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Labeling where the bolts came from makes replacement much easier. A
separate baggie for each location with corresponding label written on. Also
a short screw driver like pry bar helps with lineup during replacement.
Also good to have one person inside working the come along while a person
below guides it. Just don't be in the drop zone.
Fay
On Friday, September 30, 2016, Dolph Santorine wrote:
> I’ve only done it at the same time as the engine. With a transmission from
> Manny.
>
>
>
> Dolph
>
> DE N8JPC
>
> Wheeling, West Virginia
>
> 1977 26’ ex-PalmBeach
> 1-Ton, Sullybilt Bags, Reaction Arms, 3.70 LSD, Manny Transmission, EV-6010
>
> “The Aluminum and Fiberglass Mistress"
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Sep 30, 2016, at 2:20 PM, Jon Payne > wrote:
>>
>> Going to replace the transmission on Saturday with one I got from
> Manny. Will remove the tranny with the FD in place as Manny says he does.
> Seems
>> pretty straight forward. Also fabricated a hoist just like the one Manny
> uses.
>>
>> Any other tips from those that have done this job in the past is most
> appreciated!
>>
>> I'll post some pics afterwards.
>>
>> Jon
>> --
>> Jon Payne
>> 76 Palm Beach
>> Westfield,IN
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
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| Re: Transmission Replacement This Weekend [message #308064 is a reply to message #308057] |
Fri, 30 September 2016 15:54 |
skip2
Messages: 544
Registered: September 2011
Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Make sure no one has welded a bung on the front of the motor oil pan in that little 1 inch gap between the FD and the oil pan, front left corner. Ask me how I know. It won't go back in as one piece if you have one. The PO put it there for the oil temp sender. I pulled my FD before I pulled the tranny and didn't notice it till it was going back together and it turned into a 4 hour job after it got bound up. Also turn the steering one way or the other all the way, that little bit of clearance means a lot on the front of the final drive. Just experiences.
Skip Hartline
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Replacement This Weekend [message #308070 is a reply to message #308068] |
Fri, 30 September 2016 21:29 |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
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Senior Member |
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I did an R and R by myself many years ago. Took me at least 24 beer and a
whole lot of time. Did trans and FD at same time. It was a SOB of a job
and I'm not talking about another brand of motorhome !
Ken, are you saying it might be easier if the FD is or is Not attached..
Tks
Mike in NS
On Fri, Sep 30, 2016 at 10:06 PM, Matt Colie wrote:
> Jon Payne wrote on Fri, 30 September 2016 14:20
>> Going to replace the transmission on Saturday with one I got from
> Manny. Will remove the tranny with the FD in place as Manny says he does.
> Seems
>> pretty straight forward. Also fabricated a hoist just like the one Manny
> uses.
>>
>> Any other tips from those that have done this job in the past is most
> appreciated!
>>
>> I'll post some pics afterwards.
>>
>> Jon
>
> Jon,
>
> Ken Henderson did a drawing of a lifting bar to raise and lower the
> transmission with a single point lift.
> I can't find it. I will talk to KenH about it tomorrow.
>
> The important thing (at least one) when reinstalling is to not let the
> torque converter slip forward on the shaft. If the transmission does not
> slide
> right home, do not try pulling it in with fastenerd because if the TC has
> become disengaged you can do an immense amount of damage.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> '73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control Arms
> Now with both true Keyless and remote entry
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
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| Re: Transmission Replacement This Weekend [message #308076 is a reply to message #308057] |
Sat, 01 October 2016 09:51 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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The FD makes it a wee bit front heavy. plan on that. You'll need a strap around it to level it out more easily.
Ahh. missed the post about the FD being left in the coach. Disregard.
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
[Updated on: Sat, 01 October 2016 09:52] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Replacement This Weekend [message #308129 is a reply to message #308070] |
Sun, 02 October 2016 06:00 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Mike,
Manny does NOT move the final drive. The transmission can be moved to the
rear far enough to disengage from the FD. IF the rear motor mounts (2
bolts) are loosened from the cross member enough to allow the rear mount (3
bolts) to tilt out of the way.
Ken H.
On Sep 30, 2016 22:30, "Kingsley Coach" wrote:
> I did an R and R by myself many years ago. Took me at least 24 beer and a
> whole lot of time. Did trans and FD at same time. It was a SOB of a job
> and I'm not talking about another brand of motorhome !
>
> Ken, are you saying it might be easier if the FD is or is Not attached..
>
> Tks
>
> Mike in NS
>
> On Fri, Sep 30, 2016 at 10:06 PM, Matt Colie
> wrote:
>
>> Jon Payne wrote on Fri, 30 September 2016 14:20
>>> Going to replace the transmission on Saturday with one I got from
>> Manny. Will remove the tranny with the FD in place as Manny says he
> does.
>> Seems
>>> pretty straight forward. Also fabricated a hoist just like the one
> Manny
>> uses.
>>>
>>> Any other tips from those that have done this job in the past is most
>> appreciated!
>>>
>>> I'll post some pics afterwards.
>>>
>>> Jon
>>
>> Jon,
>>
>> Ken Henderson did a drawing of a lifting bar to raise and lower the
>> transmission with a single point lift.
>> I can't find it. I will talk to KenH about it tomorrow.
>>
>> The important thing (at least one) when reinstalling is to not let the
>> torque converter slip forward on the shaft. If the transmission does not
>> slide
>> right home, do not try pulling it in with fastenerd because if the TC has
>> become disengaged you can do an immense amount of damage.
>>
>> Matt
>> --
>> Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
>> '73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control
> Arms
>> Now with both true Keyless and remote entry
>> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Beaton
> 1977 Kingsley 26-11
> 1977 Eleganza II 26-3
> Antigonish, NS
>
> Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Replacement This Weekend [message #308130 is a reply to message #308129] |
Sun, 02 October 2016 07:37 |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
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Senior Member |
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Tks Ken
I know I will have to do it again some day, I just hope that day is farrrrr
away!
Mike in NS
On Sun, Oct 2, 2016 at 8:00 AM, Ken Henderson
wrote:
> Mike,
>
> Manny does NOT move the final drive. The transmission can be moved to the
> rear far enough to disengage from the FD. IF the rear motor mounts (2
> bolts) are loosened from the cross member enough to allow the rear mount (3
> bolts) to tilt out of the way.
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Sep 30, 2016 22:30, "Kingsley Coach" wrote:
>
>> I did an R and R by myself many years ago. Took me at least 24 beer and a
>> whole lot of time. Did trans and FD at same time. It was a SOB of a job
>> and I'm not talking about another brand of motorhome !
>>
>> Ken, are you saying it might be easier if the FD is or is Not attached..
>>
>> Tks
>>
>> Mike in NS
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 30, 2016 at 10:06 PM, Matt Colie
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Jon Payne wrote on Fri, 30 September 2016 14:20
>>>> Going to replace the transmission on Saturday with one I got from
>>> Manny. Will remove the tranny with the FD in place as Manny says he
>> does.
>>> Seems
>>>> pretty straight forward. Also fabricated a hoist just like the one
>> Manny
>>> uses.
>>>>
>>>> Any other tips from those that have done this job in the past is most
>>> appreciated!
>>>>
>>>> I'll post some pics afterwards.
>>>>
>>>> Jon
>>>
>>> Jon,
>>>
>>> Ken Henderson did a drawing of a lifting bar to raise and lower the
>>> transmission with a single point lift.
>>> I can't find it. I will talk to KenH about it tomorrow.
>>>
>>> The important thing (at least one) when reinstalling is to not let the
>>> torque converter slip forward on the shaft. If the transmission does
> not
>>> slide
>>> right home, do not try pulling it in with fastenerd because if the TC
> has
>>> become disengaged you can do an immense amount of damage.
>>>
>>> Matt
>>> --
>>> Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
>>> '73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control
>> Arms
>>> Now with both true Keyless and remote entry
>>> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Beaton
>> 1977 Kingsley 26-11
>> 1977 Eleganza II 26-3
>> Antigonish, NS
>>
>> Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
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| Re: Transmission Replacement This Weekend [message #308509 is a reply to message #308057] |
Mon, 10 October 2016 15:06 |
Jon payne
Messages: 495
Registered: May 2008
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Finally got enough time to finish the transmission replacement this weekend. In fact finished it on Saturday. Definitely not a 3 1/2 hour job. I had it ready to come out in 3 hours, this included removal of the drivers side header to get to the infamous bolt on the FD that is hard to get to. It's a snap with the header off. Also with the header off all around access is easier. Add another 5 or 6 hours to put the new one in including flushing out the trans cooler(s), I have an aux cooler. Speaking about flushing out the trans cooler(s), I was thinking how best to do this and I ended up using a high pressure (20psi), in-tank fuel pump, and submerging it into a gallon jug of mineral spirits. Then connecting the output of the pump to the transmission out line I backflushed the coolers into container. But first I blew out the lines with compressed air pushing the fluid out of the lines and coolers. The transfluid was full of metal particles! After that I pumped through the first gallon of the solvent which pretty much cleaned out the lines and coolers. I pumped another gallon through for good measure and blew the lines out with air.
All in all a real PITA job I hope never to do again, especially since I mostly did myself. Did have some help hoisting up in place which really saved me some time. Test drive went flawlessly and no leaks. Previous tranny had the Ragusa pan which leaked but liked because of the trans temp sensor. Being that Manny's trans pan isn't leaking I don't dare touch it! Might put it back on after the first filter change.
Thanks everyone for your tips and advice. Proved very helpful.
Jon
Jon Payne
76 Palm Beach
Westfield,IN
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Replacement This Weekend [message #308512 is a reply to message #308509] |
Mon, 10 October 2016 15:36 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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If I saw metal particles in what I flushed out of the cooler I would
replace the cooler.
Sully
77 royals
Seattle
On Monday, October 10, 2016, Jon Payne wrote:
> Finally got enough time to finish the transmission replacement this
> weekend. In fact finished it on Saturday. Definitely not a 3 1/2 hour
> job. I had
> it ready to come out in 3 hours, this included removal of the drivers side
> header to get to the infamous bolt on the FD that is hard to get to. It's
> a snap with the header off. Also with the header off all around access is
> easier. Add another 5 or 6 hours to put the new one in including flushing
> out the trans cooler(s), I have an aux cooler. Speaking about flushing
> out the trans cooler(s), I was thinking how best to do this and I ended up
> using a high pressure (20psi), in-tank fuel pump, and submerging it into a
> gallon jug of mineral spirits. Then connecting the output of the pump to
> the transmission out line I backflushed the coolers into container. But
> first I blew out the lines with compressed air pushing the fluid out of the
> lines and coolers. The transfluid was full of metal particles! After that
> I pumped through the first gallon of the solvent which pretty much cleaned
> out the lines and coolers. I pumped another gallon through for good
> measure and blew the lines out with air.
>
> All in all a real PITA job I hope never to do again, especially since I
> mostly did myself. Did have some help hoisting up in place which really
> saved
> me some time. Test drive went flawlessly and no leaks. Previous tranny
> had the Ragusa pan which leaked but liked because of the trans temp sensor.
> Being that Manny's trans pan isn't leaking I don't dare touch it! Might
> put it back on after the first filter change.
>
> Thanks everyone for your tips and advice. Proved very helpful.
>
> Jon
>
>
> --
> Jon Payne
> 76 Palm Beach
> Westfield,IN
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Replacement This Weekend [message #308514 is a reply to message #308512] |
Mon, 10 October 2016 15:58 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
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Those stacked plate coolers do a good job of disapating heat, and a lousy
job of having millions of places inside them to hide crap. I know this
sounds like slamming the barn door after the horse has left the building,
but, if I saw ANY metal stuff come out in a flush attempt, I would block
off the integral radiator cooler, and replace the additional remote one as
well. You should be able to flush the lines well enough to re-use them. S
and J engines has revised their warranty policy. If remote coolers are
re-used after flushing, their warranty is null and void.
Just what I do.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Oct 10, 2016 1:37 PM, "Todd Sullivan" wrote:
> If I saw metal particles in what I flushed out of the cooler I would
> replace the cooler.
>
> Sully
> 77 royals
> Seattle
>
> On Monday, October 10, 2016, Jon Payne wrote:
>
>> Finally got enough time to finish the transmission replacement this
>> weekend. In fact finished it on Saturday. Definitely not a 3 1/2 hour
>> job. I had
>> it ready to come out in 3 hours, this included removal of the drivers
> side
>> header to get to the infamous bolt on the FD that is hard to get to.
> It's
>> a snap with the header off. Also with the header off all around access
> is
>> easier. Add another 5 or 6 hours to put the new one in including
> flushing
>> out the trans cooler(s), I have an aux cooler. Speaking about flushing
>> out the trans cooler(s), I was thinking how best to do this and I ended
> up
>> using a high pressure (20psi), in-tank fuel pump, and submerging it into
> a
>> gallon jug of mineral spirits. Then connecting the output of the pump to
>> the transmission out line I backflushed the coolers into container. But
>> first I blew out the lines with compressed air pushing the fluid out of
> the
>> lines and coolers. The transfluid was full of metal particles! After
> that
>> I pumped through the first gallon of the solvent which pretty much
> cleaned
>> out the lines and coolers. I pumped another gallon through for good
>> measure and blew the lines out with air.
>>
>> All in all a real PITA job I hope never to do again, especially since I
>> mostly did myself. Did have some help hoisting up in place which really
>> saved
>> me some time. Test drive went flawlessly and no leaks. Previous tranny
>> had the Ragusa pan which leaked but liked because of the trans temp
> sensor.
>> Being that Manny's trans pan isn't leaking I don't dare touch it! Might
>> put it back on after the first filter change.
>>
>> Thanks everyone for your tips and advice. Proved very helpful.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jon Payne
>> 76 Palm Beach
>> Westfield,IN
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Replacement This Weekend [message #308536 is a reply to message #308509] |
Mon, 10 October 2016 22:49 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Jon,
I laude your efforts to clean out the coolers, however, I would suggest you consider the following information:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=6805
As you can see they are like Thomas's English Muffins - full of nooks and crannies! However, in they don't catch butter they catch
nasty stuff! ;-)
Transmission filter photo:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/transmission-filter/p57602-filter-2-cut-away.html
I tried to find the micro rating for this filter without success, so the following is PURE supposition. I suggest you try and find a
company in your area that has the Hot Flusher System and have them clean your radiator and remote transmission oil coolers. See if
they'll flush your engine oil cooler as well. You may have to make up adapters to connect their machine to your radiator fittings.
http://www.hotflusher.com/
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Payne
Finally got enough time to finish the transmission replacement this weekend. In fact finished it on Saturday. Definitely not a 3
1/2 hour job. I had it ready to come out in 3 hours, this included removal of the drivers side header to get to the infamous bolt on
the FD that is hard to get to. It's a snap with the header off. Also with the header off all around access is easier. Add another
5 or 6 hours to put the new one in including flushing out the trans cooler(s), I have an aux cooler. Speaking about flushing out
the trans cooler(s), I was thinking how best to do this and I ended up using a high pressure (20psi), in-tank fuel pump, and
submerging it into a gallon jug of mineral spirits. Then connecting the output of the pump to the transmission out line I
backflushed the coolers into container. But first I blew out the lines with compressed air pushing the fluid out of the lines and
coolers. The transfluid was full of metal particles! After that I pumped through the first gallon of the solvent which pretty much
cleaned out the lines and coolers. I pumped another gallon through for good measure and blew the lines out with air.
All in all a real PITA job I hope never to do again, especially since I mostly did myself. Did have some help hoisting up in place
which really saved me some time. Test drive went flawlessly and no leaks. Previous tranny had the Ragusa pan which leaked but liked
because of the trans temp sensor. Being that Manny's trans pan isn't leaking I don't dare touch it! Might put it back on after the
first filter change.
Thanks everyone for your tips and advice. Proved very helpful.
Jon
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Replacement This Weekend [message #308561 is a reply to message #308536] |
Tue, 11 October 2016 08:27 |
Jon payne
Messages: 495
Registered: May 2008
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Thanks Rob,
I might have made it sound like large amounts of metal (in size) in the fluid but really it was very very minute particles suspended in the fluid. I seriously doubt any of these particles would be caught inside the coolers. But for sure you have given me some doubts so I am going to take a sample just to be sure nothing is suspended in the fluid.
Thanks again,
Jon
Jon Payne
76 Palm Beach
Westfield,IN
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