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Buzz box replacement [message #307439]

Mon, 19 September 2016 20:19

gibsongo

Messages: 116
Registered: October 2012
Location: Montreal West, Quebec, Ca...

Karma: 0

Senior Member

Hello all,

Any suggestions for the best replacement for my coach's original buzz box? I do a lot of dry camping so charging quickly from the generator is of interest to me.

I keep seeing reference to Progressive Dynamics' 9200 series. Is this the best way to go? What about combination convertor/invertors? When I am dry camping I rarely use 120v. My fridge is propane/120v. as is my water heater. But from time to time I get hit with a craving for a bowl of microwave popcorn.

Thanks for your wisdom.

Gordon

Gordon Gibson 1976 23" Norris Upfit Montreal West, Quebec, Canada

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Re: [GMCnet] Buzz box replacement [message #307446 is a reply to message #307439]

Mon, 19 September 2016 21:34

Dolph Santorine

Messages: 1236
Registered: April 2011
Location: Wheeling, WV

Karma: -41

Senior Member

Xantrex ProSine

Charges about as fast as you should when tge generator is going.

Dolph Santorine

DE N8JPC

Wheeling, West Virginia

1977 ex-Palm Beach TZE167V100820
1-ton, Sullybuilt Bags, Reaction Arms, 3.70 LSD, Manny Transmission, EV-6010,

> On Sep 19, 2016, at 9:19 PM, Gordon Gibson wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> Any suggestions for the best replacement for my coach's original buzz box? I do a lot of dry camping so charging quickly from the generator is of
> interest to me.
>
> I keep seeing reference to Progressive Dynamics' 9200 series. Is this the best way to go? What about combination convertor/invertors? When I am dry
> camping I rarely use 120v. My fridge is propane/120v. as is my water heater. But from time to time I get hit with a craving for a bowl of microwave
> popcorn.
>
> Thanks for your wisdom.
>
> Gordon
> --
> 1976 23" Norris Upfit
> Montreal West, Quebec, Canada
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Re: [GMCnet] Buzz box replacement [message #307447 is a reply to message #307439]

Mon, 19 September 2016 21:36

Ken Henderson

Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA

Karma: 9

Senior Member

Gordon,

I've got a lot of history with Progressive Dynamics, including one warranty
experience that was a large contributor to the popularity of that brand
here. I don't think it can be beaten for performance and price. The
PD-9245 or PD-9260 should be adequate for your needs, IMHO.

As for the combination unit: I don't think much of them for two reasons --
cost and the fact that failure of either function takes the other away
during repairs. To support most microwaves, you'd need a 1500-2000W
inverter, and, depending on the microwave, that may have to be an expensive
sine wave version. Cranking the APU for long enough to run a microwave
seems to me a better option.

JMHO,

Ken H.

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 9:19 PM, Gordon Gibson
wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Any suggestions for the best replacement for my coach's original buzz box?
> I do a lot of dry camping so charging quickly from the generator is of
> interest to me.
>
> I keep seeing reference to Progressive Dynamics' 9200 series. Is this the
> best way to go? What about combination convertor/invertors? When I am dry
> camping I rarely use 120v. My fridge is propane/120v. as is my water
> heater. But from time to time I get hit with a craving for a bowl of
> microwave
> popcorn.
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach

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Re: [GMCnet] Buzz box replacement [message #307448 is a reply to message #307447]

Mon, 19 September 2016 21:45

James Hupy

Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010

Karma: -62

Senior Member

As long as you have a cooktop, think WhirleyPop. Way better than microwave.
Jim Hupy
On Sep 19, 2016 7:37 PM, "Ken Henderson" wrote:

> Gordon,
>
> I've got a lot of history with Progressive Dynamics, including one warranty
> experience that was a large contributor to the popularity of that brand
> here. I don't think it can be beaten for performance and price. The
> PD-9245 or PD-9260 should be adequate for your needs, IMHO.
>
> As for the combination unit: I don't think much of them for two reasons --
> cost and the fact that failure of either function takes the other away
> during repairs. To support most microwaves, you'd need a 1500-2000W
> inverter, and, depending on the microwave, that may have to be an expensive
> sine wave version. Cranking the APU for long enough to run a microwave
> seems to me a better option.
>
> JMHO,
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 9:19 PM, Gordon Gibson >
> wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Any suggestions for the best replacement for my coach's original buzz
> box?
>> I do a lot of dry camping so charging quickly from the generator is of
>> interest to me.
>>
>> I keep seeing reference to Progressive Dynamics' 9200 series. Is this the
>> best way to go? What about combination convertor/invertors? When I am
> dry
>> camping I rarely use 120v. My fridge is propane/120v. as is my water
>> heater. But from time to time I get hit with a craving for a bowl of
>> microwave
>> popcorn.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Re: [GMCnet] Buzz box replacement [message #307449 is a reply to message #307439]

Mon, 19 September 2016 21:56

Len Novak

Messages: 676
Registered: February 2004
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Karma: -3

Senior Member

I use a Boondocker PowerMax PM4B-45 (45 Amp 4-Stage Converter/Charger Hard
Wire). Three year warrantee

Len and Pat Novak
1978 GMC Kingsley
The Beast II with dash lights that work and labels you can see!
Fallbrook, CA new email: B52Rule@Roadrunner.Com
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4375

www.bdub.net/novak/

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Gordon
Gibson
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 6:19 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Buzz box replacement

Hello all,

Any suggestions for the best replacement for my coach's original buzz box? I
do a lot of dry camping so charging quickly from the generator is of
interest to me.

I keep seeing reference to Progressive Dynamics' 9200 series. Is this the
best way to go? What about combination convertor/invertors? When I am dry
camping I rarely use 120v. My fridge is propane/120v. as is my water
heater. But from time to time I get hit with a craving for a bowl of
microwave popcorn.

Thanks for your wisdom.

Gordon
--
1976 23" Norris Upfit
Montreal West, Quebec, Canada

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Len and Pat Novak 1978 GMC Kingsley The Beast II with dash lights that work and labels you can see! Las Vegas, NV new email: B52sRule@Gmail.com http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4375 www.bdub.net/novak/

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Re: [GMCnet] Buzz box replacement [message #307450 is a reply to message #307448]

Mon, 19 September 2016 22:03

gibsongo

Messages: 116
Registered: October 2012
Location: Montreal West, Quebec, Ca...

Karma: 0

Senior Member

James
Well....each to his own guess. I always burn the whirlypop stuff. I do have a handcrank popper that I love - but don't think it will be traveling with me because of space limitations. I agree that the store-bought microwave packages are non-too healthy, not so tasty and way over-priced. But a handful of white popcorn seeds popped in a microwave popcorn dish with no oil gives you a very health snack - healthy enough that you can afford to sneak in a little melted butter - the real stuff, not the ersatz "golden topping" sludge found in microwave packages and movie theaters. JMHO
Gordon

Gordon Gibson 1976 23" Norris Upfit Montreal West, Quebec, Canada

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Re: Buzz box replacement [message #307451 is a reply to message #307439]

Mon, 19 September 2016 23:58

roy1

Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada

Karma: 6

Senior Member

I would get the progressive dynamics converter to replace the buzz box. Then I would get a 450 watt invertor to power your tv DVD & satillite receiver if you have one. Use your generator to power the microwave while you are charging the batteries

Roy Keen Minden,NV 76 X Glenbrook

[Updated on: Tue, 20 September 2016 00:00]

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Re: [GMCnet] Buzz box replacement [message #307456 is a reply to message #307451]

Tue, 20 September 2016 03:59

Olly Schmidt

Messages: 1265
Registered: February 2014
Location: Germany and Scottsville, ...

Karma: 8

Senior Member

> I would get the progressive dynamics converter to replace the buzz > box. Then I would get a 450 watt invertor to power your tv DVD & >
satillite receiver if you have one. Use your generator to power the >
microwave and making hot water while you are charging the batteries

Instead of getting an inverter to power DVD and TV, I ordered a 12v
capable TV/DVD combo and am happy about it: http://supersonicinc.com/SC-1912

I agree with the other suggestion.

--
Best regards

Peer Oliver Schmidt
the internet company
PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA

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Best regards

Olly Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x18a9 3a1f 4196 bf22
'76a Eleganza II, VA
'73 Sequoia, SH, Germany

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Re: Buzz box replacement [message #307461 is a reply to message #307439]

Tue, 20 September 2016 07:28

PigPen4x4

Messages: 61
Registered: March 2014
Location: Chattanooga Tn

Karma: 1

Member

Another consideration,
A 1200 watt micro will pull 100+ amps from your battery
using an inverter.
As stated, the genny is the better power source.

C.

Christopher Brewer Chattanooga Tn Well, no longer an owner.

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Re: Buzz box replacement [message #307464 is a reply to message #307439]

Tue, 20 September 2016 08:39

jhbridges

Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga

Karma: -74

Senior Member

I use a small inverter which came out of one of our remote vans - makes like 700 watts of dirty AC but runs the few things I need. For long term use, I'd likely buy a better one. The new used coach has an Onan, so I just run it the infrequent times I have no shore power. The HF genset in the short coach works fine but makes a bit more noise than the Onan.

---johnny

Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

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Re: Buzz box replacement [message #307466 is a reply to message #307439]

Tue, 20 September 2016 08:48

JohnL455

Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL

Karma: 12

Senior Member

Combination units are like wash n wax. Better to do the jobs in 2 steps.

John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

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Re: Buzz box replacement [message #307472 is a reply to message #307439]

Tue, 20 September 2016 10:24

Matt Colie

Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan

Karma: 7

Senior Member

gibsongo wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 21:19

Hello all,

Any suggestions for the best replacement for my coach's original buzz box? I do a lot of dry camping so charging quickly from the generator is of interest to me.

I keep seeing reference to Progressive Dynamics' 9200 series. Is this the best way to go? What about combination convertor/invertors? When I am dry camping I rarely use 120v. My fridge is propane/120v. as is my water heater. But from time to time I get hit with a craving for a bowl of microwave popcorn.

Thanks for your wisdom.

Gordon

Gordon,

A small problem here is that I don't know that your 23 like my 23 and has the house bank in the right front corner and the converter/charger over the left rear wheel well. If that is the case. I can help a lot.

Executive summary: To get around this I put a 9260 near the house bank and it works like a champ.

Rest of the Story:
I have (still) a 9145 w/wizard (9245) back over the wheel well and about 22'(swag) of #10SAE wire to the house bank in the front. (#10SAE is smaller than #10 AWG.)
When we were drycamping, it took FOREVER to get the house bank back to something good. I do have a current probe and finally brought it along and thought I must have something wrong because the best charge rate I ever saw was about 25amps. => But the 14.4 out of the 9145 should do better than that - Right?
Right.... But you forgot the +/-0.6V loss on the way to the house bank!!! (I finally got the good meter and measured the terminal at the house bank and the converter. (Something I should have done a lot sooner.)
Still thought all this was just my imagination, until I got and installed a Bogart Trimetric 2025 (suggested by Dan (RIP) years before) and found out that it was at least as bad as I thought.

So, What to do?
I got out lots of books and papers and my slide rule (just kidding) and figured out to get the line drop I was hoping for down to a reasonable level, I would have to make two runs (there was a 0.2 loss in the ground side) of about #0AWG between the converter and the bank and that was marginal. 00 would be a better choice.
Thinking is always cost effective. (If you have the capability to do so.)

They do not make a 92XX with a remote sense feature. Iota does not either. So the only good answer was to move the converter closer to the bank. Problem: there isn't any place to put it up there. (I have cut a corrugate box the size and tried to fit it places.) Then, I remembered the RobM had mentioned that he chose a 9260 because of a lower height... (Make another box and try again..) That proved that a 9260 placed at the copilot's right ankle would be workable and when there it would be a short run to heavy cables for the house bank.

So, I got a 9260 on order and took some marine 14-3 romex from my stock (and a line plug and receptacle) and made a new run from where the 9145 was plugged in to the right front corner. The line loss at 120V is no issue at all.

Then I got some #8 out of stock (I really wanted #6) and tried to bend it where I wanted it to go.... NOT Happenin' Jack....
So, I'm back in the book. I have lots of #10. 3 - #10 in parallel comes out to about #5.5(?) (31Kcm) Good Enough.

Results
When I first used it, the Trimetric reported a charge rate of 57.6 amps for a short time. For the next two hours, the charge rate tapered to about 45Amps. The meter then reported that the bank should be a little over 90% charged and I quit there. This has been the way I has been since the project was completed.

As Mary likes to drive in the daylight, I am usually the one in the right seat and I rarely bump an ankle on the converter box.

This is a recommend mod for those that doondock or drycamp. If you have electric refrigeration (we do), it is particularly effective.

The only problem I have is that the 9260 wants to jump in at boost mode when I get home and plug into shore power. I can stop that with the pendent (a recommended thing) but I should not have to and Progressive Dynamics tech say it should not do this. It may be because my house bank is 6 years old.

Matt

Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit

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Re: Buzz box replacement [message #307516 is a reply to message #307472]

Tue, 20 September 2016 21:32

gibsongo

Messages: 116
Registered: October 2012
Location: Montreal West, Quebec, Ca...

Karma: 0

Senior Member

Wow......thanks guys.

Once again the collective experience of this brain trust doesn't disappoint. Ken, I almost sprung for an Progressive Dynamics today in an RV shop I found driving down the 401, but they wanted $535 for it plus tax, so I am going to keep looking. Interesting that they were selling the 45, 60 and 90 for the same price. Think I saw the same thing on Amazon for $330 (loonies that is).

Matt, my 23 is similar to yours - battery bank up front on the right and the buzz box, fuse panel, A/C in, etc. is in the back on the left next to the Genny compartment. I already have one run of new 00 cable running front to back. I am going to reread your post a couple of dozen times, pull out some weighty tomes to study, and try and learn something about electricity - such as why I would need a second cable run for ground (I assumed I could use the frame as a big cable).

Perhaps one of you could explain (in single syllable words) how I should size the converter in terms of amperes. My house bank is 2 6 volt batteries. Ken you mentioned that a 45 or 60 would suffice. But for a marginal difference in price, isn't bigger always better?

Gordon Gibson 1976 23" Norris Upfit Montreal West, Quebec, Canada

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Re: [GMCnet] Buzz box replacement [message #307519 is a reply to message #307516]

Tue, 20 September 2016 21:58

powerjon

Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004

Karma: 5

Senior Member

Gordon,
Ebay is your best friend when looking for a converter replacement. The PD9245C is the most common converter used by the GMC community.

or
http://tinyurl.com/guf7yx6

Best Price including the pendant.

JR Wright
Michigan

> On Sep 20, 2016, at 10:32 PM, Gordon Gibson wrote:
>
> Wow......thanks guys.
>
> Once again the collective experience of this brain trust doesn't disappoint. Ken, I almost sprung for an Progressive Dynamics today in an RV shop I
> found driving down the 401, but they wanted $535 for it plus tax, so I am going to keep looking. Interesting that they were selling the 45, 60 and 90
> for the same price. Think I saw the same thing on Amazon for $330 (loonies that is).
>
> Matt, my 23 is similar to yours - battery bank up front on the right and the buzz box, fuse panel, A/C in, etc. is in the back on the left next to the
> Genny compartment. I already have one run of new 00 cable running front to back. I am going to reread your post a couple of dozen times, pull out some
> weighty tomes to study, and try and learn something about electricity - such as why I would need a second cable run for ground (I assumed I could use
> the frame as a big cable).
>
> Perhaps one of you could explain (in single syllable words) how I should size the converter in terms of amperes. My house bank is 2 6 volt batteries.
> Ken you mentioned that a 45 or 60 would suffice. But for a marginal difference in price, isn't bigger always better?
> --
> 1976 23" Norris Upfit
> Montreal West, Quebec, Canada

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GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan

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Re: [GMCnet] Buzz box replacement [message #307520 is a reply to message #307519]

Tue, 20 September 2016 22:19

Ken Burton

Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana

Karma: 10

Senior Member

The second best deal after ebay is to look here:

http://www.progressivedyn.com/hotdeals.html

Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

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Re: Buzz box replacement [message #307525 is a reply to message #307516]

Wed, 21 September 2016 07:38

Matt Colie

Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan

Karma: 7

Senior Member

gibsongo wrote on Tue, 20 September 2016 22:32

Wow......thanks guys.
<snip>
Perhaps one of you could explain (in single syllable words) how I should size the converter in terms of amperes. My house bank is 2 6 volt batteries. Ken you mentioned that a 45 or 60 would suffice. But for a marginal difference in price, isn't bigger always better?

Gordon,

It comes out to the fact that golf cart batteries that are supplied with 14.4 volts will only take what they can use.

Bigger is not always better. I would never try to throw 90 amps at a bank of 2ea GC2s.... A lot would go into heat that does bad things in lead acid jars.
So, the choice kind of comes down to 45 or 60. If I had changed my 45 out for the 60 with no other changes, that would have probably been no improvement. As said, most of the choice in my case was the case dimension of the 9260. A 9245 in the same location might have been an in convenience.

It is acknowledged that the best charge rate for flooded lead acid (aka golf cart) batteries is 1/20 of the 20 hour rate.
That is all fine and dandy if you have 20 hours... (The only time I do is when the coach is along side at home and then I just did a lots of hours drive home.)

When I first saw that 57.5 Amp rate, I was worried. That condition does not last very long. It does cause water loss that has not been any issue before this. Part of that might be the age of the jars in the current back. I do like being able to recover the bank in a couple instead of six hours.

So, given the choice between 45 and 60 and not having any physical reason for the 60, I would still probably go with the 60.

Matt

Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit

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Re: Buzz box replacement [message #307731 is a reply to message #307439]

Sat, 24 September 2016 09:50

gibsongo

Messages: 116
Registered: October 2012
Location: Montreal West, Quebec, Ca...

Karma: 0

Senior Member

Thanks again guys. Ebay can indeed be your friend, but living north of the border you have to be careful. A great price in USD converted to CAD, to which you have to add shipping costs double, triple or even a higher than those to the US, plus our Canadian federal and provincial value-added tax, duty (if the item is not manufactured in the US and covered by NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) - and sometimes brokerage charges if the vendor ships UPS - can end up being higher than the Amazon.ca all-in price.

If the gods are willing and the winds favorable, hopefully the money pit will make its maiden voyage on Canadian Thanksgiving (Columbus Day for the rest of you) down to the Adirondacks for a long weekend camping trip. If so, I will order from eBay and have it delivered to the UPS store in Plattsburgh NY - saving me duty, VAT, extortionate shipping costs and possible brokerage charges. Otherwise, Amazon.ca it is.

Gordon Gibson 1976 23" Norris Upfit Montreal West, Quebec, Canada

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Re: Buzz box replacement [message #307781 is a reply to message #307731]

Sun, 25 September 2016 10:54

trapper

Messages: 52
Registered: April 2015
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada

Karma: 0

Member

gibsongo wrote on Sat, 24 September 2016 09:50

Thanks again guys. Ebay can indeed be your friend, but living north of the border you have to be careful. A great price in USD converted to CAD, to which you have to add shipping costs double, triple or even a higher than those to the US, plus our Canadian federal and provincial value-added tax, duty (if the item is not manufactured in the US and covered by NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) - and sometimes brokerage charges if the vendor ships UPS - can end up being higher than the Amazon.ca all-in price.

If the gods are willing and the winds favorable, hopefully the money pit will make its maiden voyage on Canadian Thanksgiving (Columbus Day for the rest of you) down to the Adirondacks for a long weekend camping trip. If so, I will order from eBay and have it delivered to the UPS store in Plattsburgh NY - saving me duty, VAT, extortionate shipping costs and possible brokerage charges. Otherwise, Amazon.ca it is.

I got my Progressive Dynamics charger off Amazon.ca With free shipping and that it was slightly on sale...it was actually cheaper than getting it in the US.

75 Glenbrook

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