Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Where Limiited Slip's Needed
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| Re: [GMCnet] Where Limiited Slip's Needed [message #305044 is a reply to message #305027] |
Sat, 06 August 2016 23:19   |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
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We have the Limited slip option that has been working on 3.07,3.42,3.55,
3.70, and 4.10.
It is rather basic unit as it must tolerate turns.
We have supplied over 50 units.
On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 3:52 PM, Ken Henderson
wrote:
> All the discussion of limited slip differentials brought this to mind:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/embed/nq2jY1trxqg?rel=0
>
> Yes, it really WAS that bad. I drove roads almost that bad in the late
> '50's in SE Alabama & S. GA. Don't think my X-Birchaven would go very far.
> :-)
>
> Ken H.
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Where Limiited Slip's Needed [message #305047 is a reply to message #305027] |
Sun, 07 August 2016 05:23 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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I learned to drive on Alabama red mud roads - ice is easy by comparison. My new used coach has a limited slip, useless to me. Dirt roads ain't us. I ran it up a county gravel road in the rain in MO, had to back up and get a start at a rise, it just spun both wheels.
==johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Where Limiited Slip's Needed [message #305050 is a reply to message #305047] |
Sun, 07 August 2016 08:40 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Johnny,
The LSD did what it's supposed to do, spun both wheels. What tread pattern tires do you have; highway treads or all treads?
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Johnny Bridges
I learned to drive on Alabama red mud roads - ice is easy by comparison. My new used coach has a limited slip, useless to me. Dirt
roads ain't us.
I ran it up a county gravel road in the rain in MO, had to back up and get a start at a rise, it just spun both wheels.
==johnny
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Where Limiited Slip's Needed [message #305058 is a reply to message #305047] |
Sun, 07 August 2016 11:32 |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
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Other than spinning both wheels - what are you expecting a limited slip to do? That's *all* it can do...
Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
> On Aug 7, 2016, at 3:23 AM, Johnny Bridges via Gmclist wrote:
>
> I learned to drive on Alabama red mud roads - ice is easy by comparison. My new used coach has a limited slip, useless to me. Dirt roads ain't us.
> I ran it up a county gravel road in the rain in MO, had to back up and get a start at a rise, it just spun both wheels.
>
> ==johnny
> --
> '76 23' transmode Norris upfit, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
>
> "Sometimes I wonder what tomorrow's gonna bring when I think about my dirty life and times" --Warren Zevon
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Rob -
Victoria, BC -
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
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| Re: [GMCnet] Where Limiited Slip's Needed [message #305059 is a reply to message #305058] |
Sun, 07 August 2016 11:36 |
Ronald Pottol
Messages: 505
Registered: September 2012
Location: Redwood City, California
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I'd think that's the point, just as stuck with it, for his uses.
On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 9:32 AM, Rob wrote:
> Other than spinning both wheels - what are you expecting a limited slip to
> do? That's *all* it can do...
>
> Rob
> Victoria, BC
> 76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
>
>> On Aug 7, 2016, at 3:23 AM, Johnny Bridges via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> I learned to drive on Alabama red mud roads - ice is easy by
> comparison. My new used coach has a limited slip, useless to me. Dirt
> roads ain't us.
>> I ran it up a county gravel road in the rain in MO, had to back up and
> get a start at a rise, it just spun both wheels.
>>
>> ==johnny
>> --
>> '76 23' transmode Norris upfit, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods
> and add - ons.
>> Braselton, Ga.
>>
>> "Sometimes I wonder what tomorrow's gonna bring when I think about my
> dirty life and times" --Warren Zevon
> _______________________________________________
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Plato seems wrong to me today.
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1973 26' GM outfitted
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| Re: [GMCnet] Where Limiited Slip's Needed [message #305064 is a reply to message #305061] |
Sun, 07 August 2016 15:47 |
LarryInSanDiego
Messages: 336
Registered: September 2006
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SteveW wrote on Sun, 07 August 2016 11:00...How is it dangerous...??...
In it's most extreme form, this is what causes these crashes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoAPGp2NxOU These dedicated drag cars use spools, which is NO slip - both rear axles are fully locked together. Think welded spider gears, same end function. Granted, these are rear wheel drive vehicles, but they're dramatic, albeit exaggerated, examples of what happens when power goes to both wheels but one has better traction than the other. Instead of the wheel having lesser traction dissipating energy by harmlessly spinning (which all factory LSDs do after a predetermined threshold for safety reasons save for Detroit Locker and a few driver-controlled diff locks on certain 4wd apps), that energy is fully applied to the wheel that does have traction, making that side of the vehicle move forward faster than the other.
We experience this as a sudden and unintended change of direction. Now apply that to front wheel drive and now the whole front end wants to go sideways, whether one or both wheels slip - much lesser effect with an open (non-LSD oem) diff. My worst experience I had was in a company van with LSD on a heavily crowned road in TN covered with black ice. Just letting go of the brake made the rear end slide further to the shoulder, even at engine idle. Applying the brakes made all four wheels slide to the right - a no win no matter what I did. I just shut it off and turned on the hazards until I could return with sand or salt. And yes, I did learn to drive in the winter (Rust Belt native originally from the Chicago area).
Larry Engelbrecht
San Diego, CA
'73 26' ex-Glacier
TZE063V100319 03/07/73
[Updated on: Sun, 07 August 2016 15:48] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Where Limiited Slip's Needed [message #305068 is a reply to message #305064] |
Sun, 07 August 2016 16:02 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
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Isn't it a bit of a stretch to extend that to a six wheel 12,000 pound motor home?
Are there any reported problems with the GMC?
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
> On Aug 7, 2016, at 2:47 PM, Larry Engelbrecht wrote:
>
> SteveW wrote on Sun, 07 August 2016 11:00
>> ...How is it dangerous...??...
>
> In it's most extreme form, this is what causes these crashes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoAPGp2NxOU These dedicated drag cars use spools,
> which is NO slip - both rear axles are fully locked together. Think welded spider gears, same end function. Granted, these are rear wheel drive
> vehicles, but they're dramatic, albeit exaggerated, examples of what happens when power goes to both wheels but one has better traction than the
> other. Instead of the wheel having lesser traction dissipating energy by harmlessly spinning (which all factory LSDs do after a predetermined
> threshold for safety reasons save for Detroit Locker and a few driver-controlled diff locks on certain 4wd apps), that energy is fully applied to the
> wheel that does have traction, making that side of the vehicle move forward faster then the other.
>
> We experience this as a sudden and unintended change of direction. Now apply that to front wheel drive and now the whole front end wants to go
> sideways, whether one or both wheels slip - much lesser effect with an open (non-LSD oem) diff. My worst experience I had was in a company van with
> LSD on a heavily crowned road in TN covered with black ice. Just letting go of the brake made the rear end slide further to the shoulder, even at
> engine idle. Applying the brakes made all four wheels slide to the right - a no win no matter what I did. I just shut it off and turned on the hazards
> until I could return with sand or salt. And yes, I did learn to drive in the winter (Rust Belt native originally from the Chicago area).
> --
> Larry Engelbrecht
>
> San Diego, CA
>
> '73 26' ex-Glacier
>
> TZE063V100319 03/07/73
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] Where Limiited Slip's Needed [message #305071 is a reply to message #305062] |
Sun, 07 August 2016 16:05 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
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Non were able to make one to fit our units as it is too narrow.
This guy that makes it for us has enough friction to help ,but not enough
to create steering problems in town driving.
Britt Palmer is using our LSD on his LSR attempt as the salt surface not
conducive to taction.
Few people had gravel incline drive way and our unit solved that problem.
I have driven icy roads and know what Espen is saying.
When the temperature gets around 28-34 degrees, it gets very slick and if
your not carefull you will have both fronts sliding sideways.
On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 8:10 PM, Rob Mueller wrote:
> Espen,
>
> In principle I have a tendency to agree with you, however, if you look at
> the LSD that JimK is selling:
>
> http://www.appliedgmc.com/products/full/876.jpg
>
> What you will see is a pair of blocks with springs in between them. The
> spring force on the blocks makes both the spur gear
> assemblies turn the axles simultaneously when going straight ahead. When
> the GMC is turned the spring pressure allows one spur gear
> / axle to turn faster (wheel on the outside of the turn).
>
> There are a few companies that sell kits for FWD vehicles.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> USAussie - Downunder
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Espen Heitmann
>
> I have said it before and will say it again, a limited slip differential
> on a front wheel drive vehicle is dangerous.
>
>
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Where Limiited Slip's Needed [message #305090 is a reply to message #305071] |
Sun, 07 August 2016 18:55 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
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oh yes lets use rear wheel drive 200HP drag cars as a model for front wheel drive motorhome traction issues.
Give me a break.
LSD in the GMC is a good thing, I don't have problems in wet grass or gravel driveways.
If it's icy, I won't be driving. LSD or open diff.
Once you pony up for the 3.70's you might as well add the LSD option
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Where Limited Slip's Needed [message #305097 is a reply to message #305064] |
Sun, 07 August 2016 20:26 |
Kosier
Messages: 834
Registered: February 2008
Karma: 1
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Larry,
Those drag racing crashes are caused by using a spool instead of a
differential. The spool ties the two axles solidly together with
the ring gear. When you snap an axle shaft under hard acceleration, the
power going solidly to the other axle WILL drive you into
a hard turn. However, an LSD is a standard differential with some sort of
friction device to stop one axle from running away.
I've played with both and I can tell you, you'd better have a matched set of
tires with a spool or you're going in large circles.
Gary Kosier
77PB w/500Cad
Newark, Ohio
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Larry Engelbrecht"
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2016 4:47 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Where Limiited Slip's Needed
> SteveW wrote on Sun, 07 August 2016 11:00
>> ...How is it dangerous...??...
>
> In it's most extreme form, this is what causes these crashes:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoAPGp2NxOU These dedicated drag cars
> use spools,
> which is NO slip - both rear axles are fully locked together. Think welded
> spider gears, same end function. Granted, these are rear wheel drive
> vehicles, but they're dramatic, albeit exaggerated, examples of what
> happens when power goes to both wheels but one has better traction than
> the
> other. Instead of the wheel having lesser traction dissipating energy by
> harmlessly spinning (which all factory LSDs do after a predetermined
> threshold for safety reasons save for Detroit Locker and a few
> driver-controlled diff locks on certain 4wd apps), that energy is fully
> applied to the
> wheel that does have traction, making that side of the vehicle move
> forward faster then the other.
>
> We experience this as a sudden and unintended change of direction. Now
> apply that to front wheel drive and now the whole front end wants to go
> sideways, whether one or both wheels slip - much lesser effect with an
> open (non-LSD oem) diff. My worst experience I had was in a company van
> with
> LSD on a heavily crowned road in TN covered with black ice. Just letting
> go of the brake made the rear end slide further to the shoulder, even at
> engine idle. Applying the brakes made all four wheels slide to the right -
> a no win no matter what I did. I just shut it off and turned on the
> hazards
> until I could return with sand or salt. And yes, I did learn to drive in
> the winter (Rust Belt native originally from the Chicago area).
> --
> Larry Engelbrecht
>
> San Diego, CA
>
> '73 26' ex-Glacier
>
> TZE063V100319 03/07/73
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Where Limiited Slip's Needed [message #305114 is a reply to message #305071] |
Mon, 08 August 2016 01:13 |
LarryInSanDiego
Messages: 336
Registered: September 2006
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1) I believe I mentioned spool. Does anybody read?
2) An axle doesn't have to snap to make a car suddenly turn. Uneven traction alone is enough. I've post-teched enough cars to confirm that it doesn't require a snapped axle.
jimk wrote on Sun, 07 August 2016 14:05...When the temperature gets around 28-34 degrees, it gets very slick and if
your not carefull you will have both fronts sliding sideways...
3) Thank you, Jim. My point exactly all along. YT post was just for illustration. Also mentioned. Somebody else needs to take a break here. Get over it and carry on.
Larry Engelbrecht
San Diego, CA
'73 26' ex-Glacier
TZE063V100319 03/07/73
[Updated on: Mon, 08 August 2016 01:25] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Where Limiited Slip's Needed [message #305138 is a reply to message #305027] |
Mon, 08 August 2016 11:49 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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My initial point was, the only place I've been where it >might< of been an asset, it wasn't, both wheels simple spun. It came on the coach, but in my uses I wouldn't pay to have one if it cost extra.
These are friction clutch limited slip setups, not at all like the Detroit Locker I had in an old Mustang, or the Ford 8.8 in the ratrod. You would not want either in a front wheel drive something - When you turn, the diff goes THUNK and the rear end jumps a bit, and when you straighten out it goes THUNK again and locks. The friction setup will die reasonably soon under power shifts, while the locker withstands fairly heavy abuse. The latter is 'streetable' depending your definition of the term.
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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