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electrical hookup [message #304993] |
Sat, 06 August 2016 09:31 |
kstockwell
Messages: 367 Registered: May 2016 Location: Putney VT
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the plug end of my electrical hookup is a wad of electrical tape. Before I go cutting and installing a new plug, I'm wondering if I need this big of a cable and a 50 amp plug.
My SOB has a 30 amp and it's been all I ever needed- the cable is much more manageable. As I use the current rig I only goto a standard house outlet.
The fridge is propane and electric, the water heater is propane and electric- that really just leaves the AC unit.
Can I replace the cable the size of my wrist with one that's 30amp rated or is there something I'm missing?
kelly
ps I have one roof AC unit.
1978 Kingsley
Putney VT
[Updated on: Sat, 06 August 2016 09:33] Report message to a moderator
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Re: electrical hookup [message #305003 is a reply to message #304993] |
Sat, 06 August 2016 11:19 |
zhagrieb
Messages: 676 Registered: August 2009 Location: Portland Oregon
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With one AC you are good to go with a 30A cable. If you are running the coach at home connected to a standard (15 or 20amp) outlet I'd suggest you not use the AC. Extension cords are a great source of voltage loss and any loss could ruin the AC compressor. Install a 30A circuit on the side of the house and all will be fine.
Glenn Giere, Portland OR, K7GAG
'73 "Moby the Motorhome" 26'
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Re: electrical hookup [message #305009 is a reply to message #304993] |
Sat, 06 August 2016 12:06 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324 Registered: October 2010 Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Like Billy said, you need 50 amps to run 2 high amperage items in the coach at the same time. so to run 2 A/C units, the 50 amp is needed.
so downgrading to a 30amp cord/plug, would depend on your use.
either way, they make some really crappy plugs out there. So my post is this:
solder the wires/screws that hold the lug to the wire. and epoxy the wires in place, put as much epoxy in there as you can.
I had redid my cord end numerous times before, and finally got mad and made a permant epoxied plug on the end and it has held up to some abuse.
the Camco plug is complete garbage, I can't believe they have not had someone get electrcuted and sued after the wires came loose and fell out.
here is a plug that is still junk in my opinion, but way better then the camco. if you solder the wires, and epoxy them in, it should last along time:
https://www.amazon.com/ParkPower-Male-Replacement-Plug-250V/dp/B00432Q6AO/ref=sr_1_31?ie=UTF8&qid=1470502967&sr=8-31&keywords=RV+50+amp+ma le
and the epoxy that can be used:
https://www.amazon.com/Versachem-47829-Flow-Mix-Plastic-Welder/dp/B004I3WB2U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1470502829&sr=8-1&keywords=versachem+e poxy+mix
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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Re: [GMCnet] electrical hookup [message #305010 is a reply to message #304993] |
Sat, 06 August 2016 11:58 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726 Registered: March 2004 Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Kelly,
I'll vote for 30A. All Coachmen-fitted GMC's (Birchavens and Royales) were
fitted with 30A cords; I've never heard one of those owners complain about
insufficient current.
As long as you're only running a single air conditioner, 30A should be
adequate. Even if you have two A/C's to run, the second one can be put on
a second, independent 15A circuit so that you still don't need the 50A cord.
The 40' diesel pusher we had for 9 years had a 50A cord -- on an automatic
reel. During 50+ years of RVing, that's the only time I've ever needed 50A.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 10:31 AM, kelly stockwell wrote:
> the plug end of my electrical hookup is a wad of electrical tape. Before
> I go cutting and installing a new plug, I'm wondering if I need this big of
> a cable and a 50 amp plug.
>
> My SOB has a 30 amp and it's been all I ever needed- the cable is much
> more manageable. As I use the current rig I only goto a standard house
> outlet.
>
> The fridge is propane and electric, the water heater is propane and
> electric- that really just leaves the AC unit.
>
> Can I replace the cable the size of my wrist with one that's 30amp rated
> or is there something I'm missing?
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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Re: [GMCnet] electrical hookup [message #305012 is a reply to message #305010] |
Sat, 06 August 2016 12:34 |
kstockwell
Messages: 367 Registered: May 2016 Location: Putney VT
Karma: 4
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Thanks for all the replies. I don't have any outlet at the house, installing a larger one would be a good idea.
I just realized the plug into the coach (for when the genny is running) is also 50 amp. So you're right it might be easier to just get a new plug. That cable is just a bitch to get into and out of the compartment, and with one AC, no microwave, it's overkill.
My home circuit breaker would pop if my SOB was plugged in with the AC running, I've only turned on my AC once to make sure it worked. 95% of the time we have no hookups and when we do they always say no AC usage. That works for us
I'll holler if/when I decide to swap out the cables. Someone with two ACs could surely use it
this forum is great, helpful and encouraging and I haven't felt too dumb asking a question yet (I'll keep trying)
kelly
1978 Kingsley
Putney VT
[Updated on: Sat, 06 August 2016 12:46] Report message to a moderator
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Re: electrical hookup [message #305014 is a reply to message #304993] |
Sat, 06 August 2016 13:54 |
Adrien G.
Messages: 474 Registered: May 2008 Location: Burns Flat, OK 73624
Karma: 1
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Kelly,
If your house 120vac is OEM GM setup, the 2 hot legs of the 50a cord feed 2 individual separate circuits in the main breaker box.
The 2 hot legs are connected to 2 40a main breakers.
The 30a cord has only 1 hot leg and a jumper connection wire will be needed between the 2 40a breaker.
You don't say anything about the water heater, microwave.
AC, WH, Micro, converter/charger can add up to more then 30a ( internal breaker are 40a ) it could overheat.
Oversize wire is better then undersize.
Adrien & Jenny Genesoto
75 Glenbrook (26-3) Mods LS3.70 FD / Reaction Sys / 80mm Front&Intermidiate / Hydroboost / 16" Tires / Frame Rebuild / Interior Rebuild
Yuba City,Ca. Text 530-nine-3-three-3-nine-nine-6
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Re: [GMCnet] electrical hookup [message #305016 is a reply to message #305014] |
Sat, 06 August 2016 14:08 |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691 Registered: March 2009 Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
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Kelly
I'd go with what Glenn said except I'd put that box on the neighbour's
house. It'll keep your power bill down!
Mike in NS
On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 3:54 PM, Adrien Genesoto wrote:
> Kelly,
>
> If your house 120vac is OEM GM setup, the 2 hot legs of the 50a cord feed
> 2 individual separate circuits in the main breaker box.
> The 2 hot legs are connected to 2 40a main breakers.
> The 30a cord has only 1 hot leg and a jumper connection wire will be
> needed between the 2 40a breaker.
> You don't say anything about the water heater, microwave.
>
> AC, WH, Micro, converter/charger can add up to more then 30a ( internal
> breaker are 40a ) it could overheat.
>
> Oversize wire is better then undersize.
> --
> ”When we avoid the mistakes we might have made, we sometimes make the
> mistakes that we might have avoided.”
>
>
>
> Adrien & Jenny Genesoto
> 75 Glenbrook 26-3
> Yuba City,Ca. Text 530-nine-3-three-3-nine-nine-6
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
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Re: [GMCnet] electrical hookup [message #305017 is a reply to message #305016] |
Sat, 06 August 2016 15:08 |
kstockwell
Messages: 367 Registered: May 2016 Location: Putney VT
Karma: 4
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we have no neighbors!
Our power bill is $40-60 a month (200-280 kw a month). How? Two adults, no kids, CFL bulbs, very few electronics (LP water heater and oven)- I spent a few months with a Kill-A-Watt and banished all superfluous electronics 5 years ago (a Direct TV box uses 45 watts when on, and 40 watts when off). One window AC unit runs a dozen hours a year.
I only plug the coach in to cool the fridge before a trip and charge the two 6V batteries.
kelly
Kingsley Coach wrote on Sat, 06 August 2016 15:08Kelly
I'd go with what Glenn said except I'd put that box on the neighbour's
house. It'll keep your power bill down!
Mike in NS
On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 3:54 PM, Adrien Genesoto wrote:
> Kelly,
>
> If your house 120vac is OEM GM setup, the 2 hot legs of the 50a cord feed
> 2 individual separate circuits in the main breaker box.
> The 2 hot legs are connected to 2 40a main breakers.
> The 30a cord has only 1 hot leg and a jumper connection wire will be
> needed between the 2 40a breaker.
> You don't say anything about the water heater, microwave.
>
> AC, WH, Micro, converter/charger can add up to more then 30a ( internal
> breaker are 40a ) it could overheat.
>
> Oversize wire is better then undersize.
> --
> "When we avoid the mistakes we might have made, we sometimes make the
> mistakes that we might have avoided."
>
>
>
> Adrien & Jenny Genesoto
> 75 Glenbrook 26-3
> Yuba City,Ca. Text 530-nine-3-three-3-nine-nine-6
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
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1978 Kingsley
Putney VT
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Re: [GMCnet] electrical hookup [message #305023 is a reply to message #305022] |
Sat, 06 August 2016 16:02 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726 Registered: March 2004 Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Thanks for that info, Fred. First I ever heard of a 50A Coachmen. Your
"cut it off" technique is exactly how I'd advise Kelly to do hers, except
that I'd use a 30A cord from the socket. Just no need for all that copper
-- especially with her conservative ways. Fact is, she could probably do
very well with a 10g, 15A cord, making life even easier.
Ken H.
On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Fred Hudspeth wrote:
> Ken,
>
> Some owners have Coachmen-upfitted coaches with OEM 50 amp service. The
> Royale I have is among the last 500 in the 1978 production run and it has
> OEM 50 amp service. Apparently, then, at some time during the 1978 model
> year, Coachmen began to provide 50 amp service in the transmodes they
> bought
> from GM.
>
> The 50 amp cord IS difficult to handle, especially at to
> cut the cord with about 6" extending below the floor of the Onan
> compartment. Then, install a 50 amp plug on the stub and a 50 amp
> receptacle
> on the end of the severed cord. The severed cord can be separated from the
> stub and more easily coiled at elsewhere.
>
> Both roof air-conditioners can be run at the same time with amps to
> spare...
> The downside is that when both ACs are needed (as late as October in
> Texas!), the voltage at many RV parks drops to such a level that only one
> AC
> can be run without tripping a coach circuit breaker.
>
> Fred
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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Re: electrical hookup [message #305026 is a reply to message #305024] |
Sat, 06 August 2016 16:54 |
kstockwell
Messages: 367 Registered: May 2016 Location: Putney VT
Karma: 4
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I like Fred's method too. This is low on the list of to-do, but this all seems like a good solution.
Cheers!
kelly
1978 Kingsley
Putney VT
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Re: electrical hookup [message #305039 is a reply to message #304993] |
Sat, 06 August 2016 21:07 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447 Registered: October 2006 Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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If you replace the cord set you have to parallel in the breaker box and understand how to do this. Technically you should switch to 2 15A beakers adding to the 30A in the event the post is not properly breakered. You also have to replace the generator 14-50R with a TT-30R. My suggestion --learn how to coil "over/under" so there are no net twists in the cable as you uncoil it fits neatly in the compartment and won't "phone cord" the conductors ruining the cable. I do this with air hose, garden hose and all types of cable. The trick to installing a new 14-50p is in the cable prep. Use the strip gauge on the plug, use stripers not dykes, and stagger the N and G lengths so they are offset by the distance of the pins so everything falls into place. I would never consider switching away from stock. I carry all adaptors to get down to Edison.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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Re: electrical hookup [message #305045 is a reply to message #304993] |
Sat, 06 August 2016 23:43 |
pzerkel
Messages: 212 Registered: September 2007 Location: Salisbury, IL
Karma: 0
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Others have already commented about the poor quality of most 50 amp plugs designed for rv use. I agree.
If you choose to keep the 50 amp cord, my strong recommendation is to go to a local electrical supply house and ask for a Hubbel NEMA 14-50P (the p means plug). It will not be cheap, and will not have a gimmick handle. But it will be much higher quality and easier to install than those rv plugs, or even the Pass & Seymour plugs the electrical supply house also likely sells.
You won't need to solder the H plug. (Note: Hubbel is spelled with two L's, but for some reason the forum will not let me spell it correctly? It just changed the correct spelling to "H".)
Paul Zerkel
'78 Eleganza II
Salisbury IL (near Springfield)
[Updated on: Sat, 06 August 2016 23:46] Report message to a moderator
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Re: electrical hookup [message #305048 is a reply to message #305039] |
Sun, 07 August 2016 07:03 |
kstockwell
Messages: 367 Registered: May 2016 Location: Putney VT
Karma: 4
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I have a friend who is an electrician and also has an older RV. I'll ask for some professional help/oversight.
Thank you
kelly
JohnL455 wrote on Sat, 06 August 2016 22:07If you replace the cord set you have to parallel in the breaker box and understand how to do this. Technically you should switch to 2 15A beakers adding to the 30A in the event the post is not properly breakered. You also have to replace the generator 14-50R with a TT-30R. My suggestion --learn how to coil "over/under" so there are no net twists in the cable as you uncoil it fits neatly in the compartment and won't "phone cord" the conductors ruining the cable. I do this with air hose, garden hose and all types of cable. The trick to installing a new 14-50p is in the cable prep. Use the strip gauge on the plug, use stripers not dykes, and stagger the N and G lengths so they are offset by the distance of the pins so everything falls into place. I would never consider switching away from stock. I carry all adaptors to get down to Edison.
1978 Kingsley
Putney VT
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Re: [GMCnet] electrical hookup [message #305052 is a reply to message #305022] |
Sun, 07 August 2016 09:00 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912 Registered: July 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Fred,
Spot on, Mate!
I purchased a NEW 36 foot / 50 amp extension cord from AdventureRV while it was on sale for around $150. It is MUCH more pliable
than the 40 year old cord in the Avion.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Fred Hudspeth
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2016 6:49 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] electrical hookup
Ken,
Some owners have Coachmen-upfitted coaches with OEM 50 amp service. The
Royale I have is among the last 500 in the 1978 production run and it has
OEM 50 amp service. Apparently, then, at some time during the 1978 model
year, Coachmen began to provide 50 amp service in the transmodes they bought
from GM.
The 50 amp cord IS difficult to handle, especially at
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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