GMCforum
For enthusiast of the Classic GMC Motorhome built from 1973 to 1978. A web-based mirror of the GMCnet mailing list.

Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Restoration. Insulation for Hot, and Cold weather``
[GMCnet] Restoration. Insulation for Hot, and Cold weather`` [message #304666] Sun, 31 July 2016 22:11 Go to next message
BobDunahugh is currently offline  BobDunahugh   United States
Messages: 2465
Registered: October 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Karma: 11
Senior Member



There are lots of opinions out there on what to do to improve our GMC's in this area. As the amount of foam insulation installed at the factory varies greatly from coach to coach. The burned 78 GMC wasn't to the level of bad. But at least half way there. The 78 Mouse House had many places that the factory foam was holding the paneling out from the outside walls. Skill level, and how much effort YOU wish to invest. Also plays into this equation. Don't mean to imply that what I did is the best, and only way. Below is what worked best for me. I don't believe removing the existing factory foam insulation is a good idea on three counts. One is that the factory foam adds structural support, and stability to the body shell. If you doubt this. Try getting it out. Two. The factory foam reduces the harmonics that occur from the air over the body panels, road induced vibration, and drivetrain as you travel along. Thus reducing road noise. So my first thought was to have more foam added. A friend is in the insulation business. Including foam. He stopped by after I had the interior out. ( The thought of gutting the GMC was harder than doing it.) His recommendation was to put in the foil covered double bubble wrap. Insulating materials create dead air spaces. And this material creates lots of dead air spaces. It must be properly taped, and sealed. But this is true with any insulating material. I have heard comments about this material being flammable. I used my torch to test that out. I didn't see this as an issue. The thing is that about everything in our GMC's is flammable. And if the fire got threw the paneling to get to the insulation. The coach is already lost. So now we've had the GMC out for two trips in hot weather. We've found a substantial improvement. As to what widths to buy. 24, and 48 inch were the most efficient to use. With the aluminum tape. Total cost was about $175. As a side note. I also wrapped all the heat ducts to get a more even heating from front to back.

Bob Dunahugh

Proud member of GMCMI
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

Re: [GMCnet] Restoration. Insulation for Hot, and Cold weather`` [message #304669 is a reply to message #304666] Sun, 31 July 2016 23:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
Senior Member
BobDunahugh wrote on Sun, 31 July 2016 22:11
There are lots of opinions out there on what to do to improve our GMC's in this area. As the amount of foam insulation installed at the factory varies greatly from coach to coach. The burned 78 GMC wasn't to the level of bad. But at least half way there. The 78 Mouse House had many places that the factory foam was holding the paneling out from the outside walls. Skill level, and how much effort YOU wish to invest. Also plays into this equation. Don't mean to imply that what I did is the best, and only way. Below is what worked best for me. I don't believe removing the existing factory foam insulation is a good idea on three counts. One is that the factory foam adds structural support, and stability to the body shell. If you doubt this. Try getting it out. Two. The factory foam reduces the harmonics that occur from the air over the body panels, road induced vibration, and drivetrain as you travel along. Thus reducing road noise. So my first thought was to have more foam added. A friend is in the insulation business. Including foam. He stopped by after I had the interior out. ( The thought of gutting the GMC was harder than doing it.) His recommendation was to put in the foil covered double bubble wrap. Insulating materials create dead air spaces. And this material creates lots of dead air spaces. It must be properly taped, and sealed. But this is true with any insulating material. I have heard comments about this material being flammable. I used my torch to test that out. I didn't see this as an issue. The thing is that about everything in our GMC's is flammable. And if the fire got threw the paneling to get to the insulation. The coach is already lost. So now we've had the GMC out for two trips in hot weather. We've found a substantial improvement. As to what widths to buy. 24, and 48 inch were the most efficient to use. With the aluminum tape. Total cost was about $175. As a side note. I also wrapped all the heat ducts to get a more even heating from front to back.

Bob Dunahugh

Proud member of GMCMI
Here are the numbers:

The Reflectix website says each layer, if you don't put an airgap between layers, will add R-1.1 per layer, or R-4.8 in the inch and a half available to fill.
Fiberglass would be R-5.5.
Closed cell foam is R-6.8 per inch, would be more than R-10. The foil covered boards will give BOTH higher R-value AND will reflect heat.

Its your RV. Do what works for you.
Re: [GMCnet] Restoration. Insulation for Hot, and Cold weather`` [message #304703 is a reply to message #304669] Mon, 01 August 2016 16:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Keith V is currently offline  Keith V   United States
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Ah, your comment made it sound like using the bubble wrap stuff would reduce the existing insulating value.
Yes, it's not the best, but it's 1000 times better than nothing and easy to put in. There were multiple bare or almost bare spots on my coach

No way am I going to remove the sprayed in foam. If I wanted the best insulation I'd spray more foam in.
I did use the gap filler foam in multiple places, like in the narrow slots, it worked very well.

> Here are the numbers:
>
> The Reflectix website says each layer, if you don't put an airgap between layers, will add R-1.1 per layer, or R-4.8 in the inch and a half available
> to fill.
> Fiberglass would be R-5.5.
> Closed cell foam is R-6.8 per inch, would be more than R-10. The foil covered boards will give BOTH higher R-value AND will reflect heat.
>
> Its your RV. Do what works for you.
> --
> 73 23' Sequoia 4 Sale
> 73 23' CanyonLands Parts Unit 4 Sale
> Upper Alabama
> "Highest price does not guarantee highest quality."
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org



Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
Re: [GMCnet] Restoration. Insulation for Hot, and Cold weather`` [message #304742 is a reply to message #304666] Tue, 02 August 2016 09:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobDunahugh is currently offline  BobDunahugh   United States
Messages: 2465
Registered: October 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Karma: 11
Senior Member


A from Alabama. I thought I made it clear that this method isn't the end all for everyone. The installation instruction that come with this product. And the web site are very clear that it's to be used as a supplement to the insulation that is already installed. And not to be put in as layers. It's to be used to add dead air spaces. And for radiant heat. The point here is that when you leave the factory foam as installed. And I covered some reasons/thoughts on why to not remove the factory foam. It's a great way to improve what you've got. Some advocate as it sounds that you do. Removing the factory insulation is best. All I can say. Is that when I had the GMC in Branson last month with 90 degree temps. I was able to cool the coach with just one roof A/C unit. Not the 2 that I have had to in the past.

Bob Dunahugh


________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2016 10:11 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Restoration. Insulation for Hot, and Cold weather``





There are lots of opinions out there on what to do to improve our GMC's in this area. As the amount of foam insulation installed at the factory varies greatly from coach to coach. The burned 78 GMC wasn't to the level of bad. But at least half way there. The 78 Mouse House had many places that the factory foam was holding the paneling out from the outside walls. Skill level, and how much effort YOU wish to invest. Also plays into this equation. Don't mean to imply that what I did is the best, and only way. Below is what worked best for me. I don't believe removing the existing factory foam insulation is a good idea on three counts. One is that the factory foam adds structural support, and stability to the body shell. If you doubt this. Try getting it out. Two. The factory foam reduces the harmonics that occur from the air over the body panels, road induced vibration, and drivetrain as you travel along. Thus reducing road noise. So my first thought was to have more foam added. A friend is in the insulation business. Including foam. He stopped by after I had the interior out. ( The thought of gutting the GMC was harder than doing it.) His recommendation was to put in the foil covered double bubble wrap. Insulating materials create dead air spaces. And this material creates lots of dead air spaces. It must be properly taped, and sealed. But this is true with any insulating material. I have heard comments about this material being flammable. I used my torch to test that out. I didn't see this as an issue. The thing is that about everything in our GMC's is flammable. And if the fire got threw the paneling to get to the insulation. The coach is already lost. So now we've had the GMC out for two trips in hot weather. We've found a substantial improvement. As to what widths to buy. 24, and 48 inch were the most efficient to use. With the aluminum tape. Total cost was about $175. As a side note. I also wrapped all the heat ducts to get a more even heating from front to back.

Bob Dunahugh

Proud member of GMCMI
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

Re: [GMCnet] Restoration. Insulation for Hot, and Cold weather`` [message #304749 is a reply to message #304742] Tue, 02 August 2016 11:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
Senior Member
BobDunahugh wrote on Tue, 02 August 2016 09:33
A from Alabama,
I thought I made it clear that this method isn't the end all for everyone. The installation instruction that come with this product. And the web site are very clear that it's to be used as a supplement to the insulation that is already installed. And not to be put in as layers. It's to be used to add dead air spaces. And for radiant heat. The point here is that when you leave the factory foam as installed. And I covered some reasons/thoughts on why to not remove the factory foam. It's a great way to improve what you've got. Some advocate as it sounds that you do. Removing the factory insulation is best. All I can say. Is that when I had the GMC in Branson last month with 90 degree temps. I was able to cool the coach with just one roof A/C unit. Not the 2 that I have had to in the past.

Bob Dunahugh
You got it mostly correct. The one thing I did not make clear is that I do not advocate removing the existing foam. The best thing you can do is spray new foam on top of it. Second best is shaving it flat and adding foam board sections.

Reflectix is easy and adds some R-value and some heat reflection. Adding it can make a difference, as you have experienced.

If I had the interior out, and the dollars for spray foam, I would add foam over what is there to completely fill the cavity. If I couldn't afford to spray more foam over the OEM, I would shave the OEM flat and add foam board over it. The material cost is about the same for Reflectix as 3/4" foam board. More effort required for the board, but more R-value too.

If I had to guess, I would say OEM foam plus a layer of Reflectix would yield a total R-value of about 6. OEM foam shaved to 3/4" with 3/4" foam board would yield an R-value of about 8.85. Removing the OEM foam and adding all new would yield an R-value of about 10.2.

Adding insulation reduces heat enough to turn off one roof AC unit is a good thing no matter how you get there. More insulation means you can postpone turning it on until later in the day, and the compressor won't cycle as much.

Not many would gut the interior to add insulation. I am not going to. Much easier to just run both roof ACs in hot weather and a hugely oversized heater in cold weather.

BUT, if I had the interior out, I would plus up the OEM foam. You did it the easy way. The more effort you expend, the more R-value you can get.

If you are going to expend the effort and expense of insulating, get the most bang for that effort and expense.
Re: [GMCnet] Restoration. Insulation for Hot, and Cold weather`` [message #304779 is a reply to message #304742] Tue, 02 August 2016 15:43 Go to previous message
BobDunahugh is currently offline  BobDunahugh   United States
Messages: 2465
Registered: October 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Karma: 11
Senior Member

Well put. I think we got the topic covered well for all to make the choice that meets their application. We don't travel in the South during the summer months. So one, or two on the R chart. Isn't of concern for me.
Bob Dunahugh

________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2016 9:33 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: RE: Restoration. Insulation for Hot, and Cold weather``




A from Alabama. I thought I made it clear that this method isn't the end all for everyone. The installation instruction that come with this product. And the web site are very clear that it's to be used as a supplement to the insulation that is already installed. And not to be put in as layers. It's to be used to add dead air spaces. And for radiant heat. The point here is that when you leave the factory foam as installed. And I covered some reasons/thoughts on why to not remove the factory foam. It's a great way to improve what you've got. Some advocate as it sounds that you do. Removing the factory insulation is best. All I can say. Is that when I had the GMC in Branson last month with 90 degree temps. I was able to cool the coach with just one roof A/C unit. Not the 2 that I have had to in the past.

Bob Dunahugh


________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2016 10:11 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Restoration. Insulation for Hot, and Cold weather``





There are lots of opinions out there on what to do to improve our GMC's in this area. As the amount of foam insulation installed at the factory varies greatly from coach to coach. The burned 78 GMC wasn't to the level of bad. But at least half way there. The 78 Mouse House had many places that the factory foam was holding the paneling out from the outside walls. Skill level, and how much effort YOU wish to invest. Also plays into this equation. Don't mean to imply that what I did is the best, and only way. Below is what worked best for me. I don't believe removing the existing factory foam insulation is a good idea on three counts. One is that the factory foam adds structural support, and stability to the body shell. If you doubt this. Try getting it out. Two. The factory foam reduces the harmonics that occur from the air over the body panels, road induced vibration, and drivetrain as you travel along. Thus reducing road noise. So my first thought was to have more foam added. A friend is in the insulation business. Including foam. He stopped by after I had the interior out. ( The thought of gutting the GMC was harder than doing it.) His recommendation was to put in the foil covered double bubble wrap. Insulating materials create dead air spaces. And this material creates lots of dead air spaces. It must be properly taped, and sealed. But this is true with any insulating material. I have heard comments about this material being flammable. I used my torch to test that out. I didn't see this as an issue. The thing is that about everything in our GMC's is flammable. And if the fire got threw the paneling to get to the insulation. The coach is already lost. So now we've had the GMC out for two trips in hot weather. We've found a substantial improvement. As to what widths to buy. 24, and 48 inch were the most efficient to use. With the aluminum tape. Total cost was about $175. As a side note. I also wrapped all the heat ducts to get a more even heating from front to back.

Bob Dunahugh

Proud member of GMCMI
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

Previous Topic: Coach Damage Pics
Next Topic: Photo site Down?
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Mon Oct 07 21:57:38 CDT 2024

Total time taken to generate the page: 0.00927 seconds