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What's under the shower drain trap? [message #303331]

Sat, 09 July 2016 13:30

kstockwell

Messages: 367
Registered: May 2016
Location: Putney VT

Karma: 4

Senior Member

I'm determined to add a second drain to the shower that goes through a hose to the underside (to go into a tank or the ground as regulations allow).

I've pulled out the kick plate (and the whole wall to get to the kick plate) and can see the trap, and track it down through to the black tank. There's room for a small drain with a barb end to attach a hose.

But, I need to send the hose out through something. What's under the rubbery material in this compartment? I know the black tank is under it, but can I cut a small hole (with scissors or a knife) into he rubbery material and then shove a hose though there? Or, where should I be directing my hose?

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/uploads/42490/IMG_9347.JPG
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/uploads/42490/IMG_9351.JPG

thank you
kelly

1978 Kingsley Putney VT

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Re: What's under the shower drain trap? [message #303332 is a reply to message #303331]

Sat, 09 July 2016 14:41

A Hamilto

Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011

Karma: 39

Senior Member

kstockwell wrote on Sat, 09 July 2016 13:30

I'm determined to add a second drain to the shower that goes through a hose to the underside (to go into a tank or the ground as regulations allow).
I've pulled out the kick plate (and the whole wall to get to the kick plate) and can see the trap, and track it down through to the black tank. There's room for a small drain with a barb end to attach a hose.

But, I need to send the hose out through something. What's under the rubbery material in this compartment? I know the black tank is under it, but can I cut a small hole (with scissors or a knife) into he rubbery material and then shove a hose though there? Or, where should I be directing my hose?

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/uploads/42490/IMG_9347.JPG
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/uploads/42490/IMG_9351.JPG

thank you
kelly

Does this help? http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/snaking-gray-water-out-of-coach/p20585-drain-installed.html

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Re: What's under the shower drain trap? [message #303335 is a reply to message #303332]

Sat, 09 July 2016 15:06

kstockwell

Messages: 367
Registered: May 2016
Location: Putney VT

Karma: 4

Senior Member

It does, and I've seen all the photos and posts others have done for this. I guess it sort of answers my question, if he didn't go though the floor right under the trap there's likely a good reason.

I'm not sure what the "trap door" into the bedroom is. Where the fresh water tank is?

thank you
kelly

1978 Kingsley Putney VT

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Re: What's under the shower drain trap? [message #303336 is a reply to message #303335]

Sat, 09 July 2016 15:55

wally

Messages: 643
Registered: August 2004
Location: Omaha Nebraska

Karma: 5

Senior Member

I have other pics of what Dan Gregg did and where the drain came out underneath. It was along side the water tank rear of the crossmember and bath wall also rear of the black tank. PM wouldn't allow attachments. No pics from above the floor just under view but you can see. Email or post yours and I will send. wallyand at aim com

Wally Anderson
Omaha NE
75 Glenbrook

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Re: What's under the shower drain trap? [message #303337 is a reply to message #303331]

Sat, 09 July 2016 16:09

Carl S.

Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.

Karma: 13

Senior Member

Under the shower is a, maybe, 2" space, then the plywood floor, then the holding tank. You can do as Dan did and carefully (he told me he measured several times before he drilled) cut a hole in the floor, install a drain fitting with a 90 degree outlet on it, and run a hose past the edge of the holding tank. Maybe put another 90 on it to direct the water down toward the ground.

In most places it would be illegal to dump that water on the ground, but as a practical matter, it would be no different than an outdoor shower. If you are parked on grass or dirt, it probably would not be noticeable. Still somewhat iffy with the authorities though.

Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

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Re: What's under the shower drain trap? [message #303340 is a reply to message #303337]

Sat, 09 July 2016 16:24

Carl S.

Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.

Karma: 13

Senior Member

Carl S. wrote on Sat, 09 July 2016 14:09

Under the shower is a, maybe, 2" space, then the plywood floor, then the holding tank. You can do as Dan did and carefully (he told me he measured several times before he drilled) cut a hole in the floor, install a drain fitting with a 90 degree outlet on it, and run a hose past the edge of the holding tank. Maybe put another 90 on it to direct the water down toward the ground.

In most places it would be illegal to dump that water on the ground, but as a practical matter, it would be no different than an outdoor shower. If you are parked on grass or dirt, it probably would not be noticeable. Still somewhat iffy with the authorities though.

Oh, there is a small square indentation in the holding tank meant to accommodate the trap. On the later model coaches (mine is a '75) there is a small plastic 'bowl' that fits just under the trap so there is not just a hole in the floor there.

Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

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Re: What's under the shower drain trap? [message #303342 is a reply to message #303337]

Sat, 09 July 2016 17:51

A Hamilto

Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011

Karma: 39

Senior Member

Carl S. wrote on Sat, 09 July 2016 16:09

...In most places it would be illegal to dump that water on the ground, but as a practical matter, it would be no different than an outdoor shower. ...

True. For some reason, an outside shower is no big deal, but if the water that comes off you transits any sort of pipe to get from you to the ground, it can result in a penalty. I have seen lots of people wash out dishes and cookware and utensils at a spigot at a campground, but if that same activity occurs in the RV sink, that water transits some pipe, and then it is a penalty for it to hit the ground.

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Re: What's under the shower drain trap? [message #303346 is a reply to message #303342]

Sat, 09 July 2016 19:52

Carl S.

Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.

Karma: 13

Senior Member

A Hamilto wrote on Sat, 09 July 2016 15:51

Carl S. wrote on Sat, 09 July 2016 16:09
...In most places it would be illegal to dump that water on the ground, but as a practical matter, it would be no different than an outdoor shower. ...
True. For some reason, an outside shower is no big deal, but if the water that comes off you transits any sort of pipe to get from you to the ground, it can result in a penalty. I have seen lots of people wash out dishes and cookware and utensils at a spigot at a campground, but if that same activity occurs in the RV sink, that water transits some pipe, and then it is a penalty for it to hit the ground.

Yes, that's why we carry a basin with us that fits in the sink, when dry camping. That way we can use the campground gray water dump, if they have one, or pour it under a bush. This saves a couple of gallons of capacity in our holding tank. No "transiting a pipe".

Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

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Re: What's under the shower drain trap? [message #303352 is a reply to message #303331]

Sun, 10 July 2016 07:36

kstockwell

Messages: 367
Registered: May 2016
Location: Putney VT

Karma: 4

Senior Member

I did some reading on grey water; and one regulation I read was about dumping water in a holding tank being a no no. That's where you start to get bacteria growing (it actually makes a lot of sense, think of a container out full of your shower/ sink water- it will start getting smelly and gross pretty fast).

That's why outdoor showers/ outdoor dish washing is OK. But, no one knows when they see water flowing from a RV where it's from so I understand the risks/issues.

Like Dan, I'll have the option of swapping plugs and going into the tank. Though 100% of the time I'm dry camping I'm on grass at a music festival or at someone's house.

I think I saw a post of the plastic bowl molding under the trap and from what it feels like under the rubbery mat I think that's what I have. I'll follow Dan's route and head back along the fresh tank. I have an old drain there that had leaking plumbing around it (the drain outside was already capped off) and I'll go through the floor there- now I know I need a LONG piece of hose. My plan was to use long flexible hosing.

Here's the drain I bought
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002UC4XMW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I ordered a different drain, but it's HUGE so this gets delivered monday. I head out Wednesday (no pressure). It doesn't say what size tubing (or is that the 5/8"?) nor what size hole to drill so I have to wait.. I hate waiting.
Plan is to measure, measure, measure, pray, cut. I know to go really slowly (40 year old fiberglass) and wear safety googles.

As always thanks for your help! I'll post my triumphant result or terrible consequences.
kelly

1978 Kingsley Putney VT

[Updated on: Sun, 10 July 2016 08:36]

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Re: What's under the shower drain trap? [message #303479 is a reply to message #303352]

Tue, 12 July 2016 17:35

kstockwell

Messages: 367
Registered: May 2016
Location: Putney VT

Karma: 4

Senior Member

So I no longer have skin on any knuckles; I've almost cried, pulled out the whole wall to get to the bottom 3" access port, had to go buy a hose, had to go buy a different hose, got excited when it all went together and didn't leak, got disappointed when it didn't drain and did leak a bit after holding water all day...

Where I am:
Hole drilled (no problem!)
Bad choice drain installed (and PITA)
Hose hooked up (wicked PITA)
Hose travels back to behind the water tank (not too bad, my arms are bruised)
Hose doesn't drain all that fast (seriously?)

I'm not totally level, but the front is up (and the passenger side is up)
It does drain but slowly. Any suggestions or should i just use it and wait and see?

Going to replace the bad idea drain with this one in a few weeks. Should go faster!
http://www.overtons.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=ITC-Pivot-90-Flip-Drain&i=96080

The bad idea drain has an output pointing down so the hose has to fit in around the existing PVC...
Current drain leaks a tiny bit down where the barb fitting is (I can't tighten it in place) but not badly.

Feel free to tell me so, regardless- I'm learning

kelly

1978 Kingsley Putney VT

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Re: What's under the shower drain trap? [message #303484 is a reply to message #303331]

Tue, 12 July 2016 18:40

JohnL455

Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL

Karma: 12

Senior Member

But if all the grey goes in the tank, doesn't the fresh run out at the same time the black is full?? And more grey in there is better at dumping than concentrated black holding waste. Just trying to understand the benefit of all this effort

John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

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Re: What's under the shower drain trap? [message #303485 is a reply to message #303331]

Tue, 12 July 2016 18:47

lqqkatjon

Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN

Karma: 5

Senior Member

I think that overtons drain is the ticket. Keeping the pipe inside i think is nessesary, that shower drain location is way too far away from edges of black tank for you to ever think about fishing a tube out tonthe side. The recess in the tank if it got water in it, there is no where for it to go and could go rank and stink.

I think the other thing that might help is a 90 fitting to the floor, so you have no rise in the hose to make the bend downward. I would keep the hose as short as practical and have it pop out just rear of black tank.

Jon Roche 75 palm beach EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now. St. Cloud, MN http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/

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Re: What's under the shower drain trap? [message #303486 is a reply to message #303484]

Tue, 12 July 2016 18:51

lqqkatjon

Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN

Karma: 5

Senior Member

Benefit for her is to be able to shower and have shower water drain onto the ground. She is looking to do this on private property, in a field. So as not to fill up black tank over a weekend showering. And still have ability for shower water to normally go into holding tank for when she is in locations where is is not acceptable to put water on the ground.

Jon Roche 75 palm beach EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now. St. Cloud, MN http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/

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Re: What's under the shower drain trap? [message #303489 is a reply to message #303486]

Tue, 12 July 2016 19:26

kstockwell

Messages: 367
Registered: May 2016
Location: Putney VT

Karma: 4

Senior Member

Yes, I agree the other drain will be perfect. It arrives in a week. Just put the whole mess back together. This time I'll be able to only pull out the toe plate under the shower door instead of the wall too (that wall is HEAVY, some nice thin board would make a great replacement someday)

And you are correct, I will run out of water. My last RV had 35 gallons of fresh, 34 gallons of grey and 29 gallons of black. I'm used to lugging water and have a 6 gallon wheeled tote and transfer pump.

However, now I need a way of knowing when to ask portapottie guy to pump me out... It's the one gauge that doesn't work. I have a stick, and last time pumped out at 3.5" on the stick in the toilet.

This is just so much more elegant than showering in one of those portable shower tents (though I can do that too and will likely wash my hair outside anyway)

I can't seem to access and add to my photo album but I'll give it a shot and post my triumphant/dissapointing photos

cheers
kelly

1978 Kingsley Putney VT

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Re: What's under the shower drain trap? [message #303490 is a reply to message #303489]

Tue, 12 July 2016 19:33

kstockwell

Messages: 367
Registered: May 2016
Location: Putney VT

Karma: 4

Senior Member

let's try this

you can see the 0 clearance and why it's a good think i have small girl hands

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6952-shower-drain-part-2.html

kelly

1978 Kingsley Putney VT

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Re: [GMCnet] What's under the shower drain trap? [message #303519 is a reply to message #303479]

Wed, 13 July 2016 12:06

powerjon

Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004

Karma: 5

Senior Member

Kelly,
The only thing that I have done under shower is to replace the floor drain housing to one that closes and prevents holding tank back up. I have friend who have had personal experience with back up and it is a mess. You are absolutely correct the space to work under there is a bare minimum at best and the hands took a beating.

JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan

> On Jul 12, 2016, at 6:35 PM, kelly stockwell wrote:
>
> So I no longer have skin on any knuckles; I've almost cried, pulled out the whole wall to get to the bottom 3" access port, had to go buy a hose, had
> to go buy a different hose, got excited when it all went together and didn't leak, got disappointed when it didn't drain and did leak a bit after
> holding water all day...
>
> Where I am:
> Hole drilled (no problem!)
> Bad choice drain installed (and PITA)
> Hose hooked up (wicked PITA)
> Hose travels back to behind the water tank (not too bad, my arms are bruised)
> Hose doesn't drain all that fast (seriously?)
>
> I'm not totally level, but the front is up (and the passenger side is up)
> It does drain but slowly. Any suggestions or should i just use it and wait and see?
>
> Going to replace the bad idea drain with this one in a few weeks. Should go faster!
> http://www.overtons.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=ITC-Pivot-90-Flip-Drain&i=96080
>
> The bad idea drain has an output pointing down so the hose has to fit in around the existing PVC...
> Current drain leaks a tiny bit down where the barb fitting is (I can't tighten it in place) but not badly.
>
> Feel free to tell me so, regardless- I'm learning
>
> kelly
>
>
> --
> 1978 Kingsley
> Putney VT

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GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan

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Re: [GMCnet] What's under the shower drain trap? [message #303521 is a reply to message #303519]

Wed, 13 July 2016 12:40

kstockwell

Messages: 367
Registered: May 2016
Location: Putney VT

Karma: 4

Senior Member

I saw those flip close drains, very cool

though what happens if the tank can't back up to the shower? Does it work it's way toward the sinks or just up the toilet.
because maybe i need to get one of those too.

Is the original drain glued in place or just screwed into the PVC tubing? So far I haven't touched the original drain at all (except with edges of wrenches, knuckles and pride)

I poured hydrogen peroxide on my arms/hands after washing- I was one fizzy mess. Snaking the new tube out to behind the water tank took some work; I almost got stuck 2-3 times.

kelly

1978 Kingsley Putney VT

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Re: [GMCnet] What's under the shower drain trap? [message #303529 is a reply to message #303521]

Wed, 13 July 2016 15:49

powerjon

Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004

Karma: 5

Senior Member

The floor drain is just screwed in to threaded black pvc piece. There is an article on how to do it and if I can get some time tonight I will scan it in and put a link to it.

JR
> On Jul 13, 2016, at 1:40 PM, kelly stockwell wrote:
>
> I saw those flip close drains, very cool
>
> though what happens if the tank can't back up to the shower? Does it work it's way toward the sinks or just up the toilet.
> because maybe i need to get one of those too.
>
> Is the original drain glued in place or just screwed into the PVC tubing? So far I haven't touched the original drain at all (except with edges of
> wrenches, knuckles and pride)
>
> I poured hydrogen peroxide on my arms/hands after washing- I was one fizzy mess. Snaking the new tube out to behind the water tank took some work; I
> almost got stuck 2-3 times.
>
>
> kelly
> --
> 1978 Kingsley
> Putney VT

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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan

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Re: [GMCnet] What's under the shower drain trap? [message #303538 is a reply to message #303521]

Wed, 13 July 2016 17:56

Dennis S

Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005

Karma: 2

Senior Member

Kelly

The bath floor drain screws into the abs drain.

Photo here on drain, pipe and the tool I used to remove.

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/73-painted-desert-230/p33841-0025.html

Dennis

kstockwell wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 12:40

I saw those flip close drains, very cool

though what happens if the tank can't back up to the shower? Does it work it's way toward the sinks or just up the toilet.
because maybe i need to get one of those too.

Is the original drain glued in place or just screwed into the PVC tubing? So far I haven't touched the original drain at all (except with edges of wrenches, knuckles and pride)

I poured hydrogen peroxide on my arms/hands after washing- I was one fizzy mess. Snaking the new tube out to behind the water tank took some work; I almost got stuck 2-3 times.

kelly

Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro

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Re: [GMCnet] What's under the shower drain trap? [message #303716 is a reply to message #303538]

Sun, 17 July 2016 16:44

kstockwell

Messages: 367
Registered: May 2016
Location: Putney VT

Karma: 4

Senior Member

I could use that tool! I used needle nose pliers to tighten the new drain

thank you
k

1978 Kingsley Putney VT

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