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Another fuel delivery problem? [message #302709] Mon, 27 June 2016 14:51 Go to next message
pjburt is currently offline  pjburt   United States
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Registered: February 2016
Location: Fresno, California
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Senior Member
I seem to have a fuel problem that is kicking me in the... teeth.
A short history; I bought the coach in Feb 2016. Applied GMC dropped the fuel tanks, cleaned them, replaced all fuel hoses with the good stuff, plus installed an inline canister filter and electric fuel pump by the tanks. Drove it home to Fresno, Ca. (175 mi.). The new electric pump was leaking and Jimk sent me a replacement.
I began to clean up the interior and only drove it about 30 miles with no problems until last Friday. I filled it at Costco and it took 34 gals. two blocks down the road it started sputtering and tried to die when I gave it any gas. It would idle great and start right up when it stalled. No cranking. In fact, once I figured out how to start it cold, it was pump once to set the choke then half a squirt and it would kick right over. This is a stock points distributor.

It would do about 10mph in low, any more than that and it would bog down. when I finally got it back to the shop, I changed the canister filter and the cartridge at the carb. No luck. It would run for about a mile then start acting up again. (Vapor-lock??) Maybe but The old saying if you didn't do it it wasn't done. So, I replaced the points, condenser, coil, cap and rotor. Still no luck. I needed spares anyway.

Went back and checked for blockage in the fuel lines. Clear.

I was sitting in front of the coach contemplating what to do next when I glanced under the coach and the carbon canister was dripping gas. So I blocked the leak and went home to research causes. I decided to check the separator and disassemble the canisters or maybe disconnect them entirely but I don't know that that is what is causing the bogging. It doesn't seem to be running rich.

Today I was under the rig checking my seatbelt reinforcement for Johnny Osburn and noticed the seam on the forward fuel tank is seeping. and they both look like they have been ballooned. The gas cap does not tighten so it is able to vent through there.

I'm fluxomed and need some other brains to set me on the right course. I had hoped to go to Paso for the Rally and I'm thinking I have more than one problem.


Jerry Burt Fresno, CA.
73 Gmc 26' Canyon Lands
Members: FMCA - GMCMI - GMCWS
A truly happy person is one who can enjoy the scenery on a detour.
Re: Another fuel delivery problem? [message #302710 is a reply to message #302709] Mon, 27 June 2016 15:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lqqkatjon is currently offline  lqqkatjon   United States
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
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You have to many variables in the Mix, just like the thread earlier, you probably need to hook it to a boat gas tank, and make 100% sure you have fuel supply problem, or a carb/engine problem. However you also need to get to the bottom of the fuel leaking at the seam before you start the thing on fire.

6 gallon boat gas tank, with 2 gas stops will get you to Paso Robles. less then 115 miles? Then you can talk about all the fuel supply problems from there and come up with all sorts of more questions.



Jon Roche 75 palm beach EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now. St. Cloud, MN http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
Re: [GMCnet] Another fuel delivery problem? [message #302711 is a reply to message #302709] Mon, 27 June 2016 15:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary Worobec is currently offline  Gary Worobec   United States
Messages: 867
Registered: May 2005
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Senior Member
Jerry, you could check to see if the rubber O-RING on the cannister fuel filter is OK. Sometimes they get cut when you replace the filter. You may be sucking a bit of air.


> On Jun 27, 2016, at 12:51 PM, Jerry Burt wrote:
>
> I seem to have a fuel problem that is kicking me in the... teeth.
> A short history; I bought the coach in Feb 2016. Applied GMC dropped the fuel tanks, cleaned them, replaced all fuel hoses with the good stuff, plus
> installed an inline canister filter and electric fuel pump by the tanks. Drove it home to Fresno, Ca. (175 mi.). The new electric pump was leaking and
> Jimk sent me a replacement.
> I began to clean up the interior and only drove it about 30 miles with no problems until last Friday. I filled it at Costco and it took 34 gals. two
> blocks down the road it started sputtering and tried to die when I gave it any gas. It would idle great and start right up when it stalled. No
> cranking. In fact, once I figured out how to start it cold, it was pump once to set the choke then half a squirt and it would kick right over. This is
> a stock points distributor.
>
> It would do about 10mph in low, any more than that and it would bog down. when I finally got it back to the shop, I changed the canister filter and
> the cartridge at the carb. No luck. It would run for about a mile then start acting up again. (Vapor-lock??) Maybe but The old saying if you didn't do
> it it wasn't done. So, I replaced the points, condenser, coil, cap and rotor. Still no luck. I needed spares anyway.
>
> Went back and checked for blockage in the fuel lines. Clear.
>
> I was sitting in front of the coach contemplating what to do next when I glanced under the coach and the carbon canister was dripping gas. So I
> blocked the leak and went home to research causes. I decided to check the separator and disassemble the canisters or maybe disconnect them entirely
> but I don't know that that is what is causing the bogging. It doesn't seem to be running rich.
>
> Today I was under the rig checking my seatbelt reinforcement for Johnny Osburn and noticed the seam on the forward fuel tank is seeping. and they both
> look like they have been ballooned. The gas cap does not tighten so it is able to vent through there.
>
> I'm fluxomed and need some other brains to set me on the right course. I had hoped to go to Paso for the Rally and I'm thinking I have more than one
> problem.
> --
> Patti & Jerry Burt
> 73 Gmc 26'
> Photos - http://jburt.smugmug.com/GMC-Motorhome
> Lots of upgrades but lots to do to make it ours.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

Gary and Joanne Worobec
Anza, CA
1973 Glacier 23






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Re: Another fuel delivery problem? [message #302712 is a reply to message #302709] Mon, 27 June 2016 15:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tphipps is currently offline  tphipps   United States
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Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
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Senior Member
Sounds like a fuel flow problem. Has enough fuel to start and idle, not enough delivered to run. A quick test would be to rig a marine type fuel tank directly to the CARB ants see if it runs that way.
A ballooned tank may mean tank venting problem. Can it be made to run normally with the gas cap loosened?
Tom, MS II


2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552 KA4CSG
Re: Another fuel delivery problem? [message #302713 is a reply to message #302712] Mon, 27 June 2016 15:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
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Maybe the filter at the carb needs to be replaced.
Re: Another fuel delivery problem? [message #302714 is a reply to message #302709] Mon, 27 June 2016 16:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
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A Hamilto wrote on Mon, 27 June 2016 15:36
Maybe the filter at the carb needs to be replaced.
Never mind. I see you changed that.

But a clue is: "I filled it at Costco and it took 34 gals. two blocks down the road it started sputtering and tried to die when I gave it any gas."

You might have water in the tanks from that gas. Figure out a way to get as much of that gas out and put fresh gas (from someplace else) in it.
Re: [GMCnet] Another fuel delivery problem? [message #302716 is a reply to message #302714] Mon, 27 June 2016 16:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
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Costco moves more gas than just about anyone. I kinda doubt that they would
have contaminated fuel, but because it is at least a possibility, it should
be checked to rule it out. Gasoline dripping from the charcoal cannister
tells me that the liquid/vapor separator in the rear wheel well on the
drivers side of the coach either is not working or is overwhelmed with
liquid fuel expanding out of the tanks through the vent hoses. This should
NOT be happening. Is the exhaust pipe emitting black smoke, which might
indicate a sunk float or stuck inlet needle in the carb. Change and/or
check ONLY ONE THING AT A TIME to rule out your problem (s).
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Jun 27, 2016 2:01 PM, "A." wrote:

> A Hamilto wrote on Mon, 27 June 2016 15:36
>> Maybe the filter at the carb needs to be replaced.
> Never mind. I see you changed that.
>
> But a clue is: "I filled it at Costco and it took 34 gals. two blocks down
> the road it started sputtering and tried to die when I gave it any gas."
>
> You might have water in the tanks from that gas. Figure out a way to get
> as much of that gas out and put fresh gas (from someplace else) in it.
> --
> 73 23' Sequoia 4 Sale
> 73 23' CanyonLands Parts Unit 4 Sale
> Upper Alabama
> "Posting on the GMCnet seems to always result in a cacophony of responses
> which only tend to cloud the solution rather than move you closer to it."
> Jim Miller
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Re: Another fuel delivery problem? [message #302717 is a reply to message #302709] Mon, 27 June 2016 16:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pjburt is currently offline  pjburt   United States
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Registered: February 2016
Location: Fresno, California
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Thanks all for the suggestions. I think I'll get a boat tank and bypass the system. If it works, I'll drain and drop the front tank check for water and rehab the tank. We are dealing with 100*+ temps and a metal building so it will be a little slow getting anything done.

I read on one of the info sites about bypassing the separator/canister system. Temporarily of course. Any drawbacks?

This thing went down the road really nice coming home from JimKs. I don't think there is anything drastic wrong. I'm just itching to hit the road.


Jerry Burt Fresno, CA.
73 Gmc 26' Canyon Lands
Members: FMCA - GMCMI - GMCWS
A truly happy person is one who can enjoy the scenery on a detour.
Re: Another fuel delivery problem? [message #302718 is a reply to message #302714] Mon, 27 June 2016 16:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Carl S. is currently offline  Carl S.   United States
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Location: Tucson, AZ.
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Senior Member

A Hamilto wrote on Mon, 27 June 2016 14:00
A Hamilto wrote on Mon, 27 June 2016 15:36
Maybe the filter at the carb needs to be replaced.
Never mind. I see you changed that.

But a clue is: "I filled it at Costco and it took 34 gals. two blocks down the road it started sputtering and tried to die when I gave it any gas."

You might have water in the tanks from that gas. Figure out a way to get as much of that gas out and put fresh gas (from someplace else) in it.


Not likely. Costco sells a VERY high volume of high quality gas and it is very unlikely that they have water in their tanks. I guess anything is possible though.

I don't know what the gas running out of the charcoal canister might have to do with this, but that shouldn't be happening either. That, and the ballooning of the tanks points to a venting problem of some sort.


Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
Re: [GMCnet] Another fuel delivery problem? [message #302719 is a reply to message #302716] Mon, 27 June 2016 16:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pjburt is currently offline  pjburt   United States
Messages: 436
Registered: February 2016
Location: Fresno, California
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Senior Member
James Hupy wrote on Mon, 27 June 2016 14:13
Costco moves more gas than just about anyone. I kinda doubt that they would
have contaminated fuel, but because it is at least a possibility, it should
be checked to rule it out. Gasoline dripping from the charcoal cannister
tells me that the liquid/vapor separator in the rear wheel well on the
drivers side of the coach either is not working or is overwhelmed with
liquid fuel expanding out of the tanks through the vent hoses. This should
NOT be happening. Is the exhaust pipe emitting black smoke, which might
indicate a sunk float or stuck inlet needle in the carb. Change and/or
check ONLY ONE THING AT A TIME to rule out your problem (s).
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Jun 27, 2016 2:01 PM, "A." wrote:

> A Hamilto wrote on Mon, 27 June 2016 15:36
>> Maybe the filter at the carb needs to be replaced.
> Never mind. I see you changed that.
>
> But a clue is: "I filled it at Costco and it took 34 gals. two blocks down
> the road it started sputtering and tried to die when I gave it any gas."
>
> You might have water in the tanks from that gas. Figure out a way to get
> as much of that gas out and put fresh gas (from someplace else) in it.
> --
> 73 23' Sequoia 4 Sale
> 73 23' CanyonLands Parts Unit 4 Sale
> Upper Alabama
> "Posting on the GMCnet seems to always result in a cacophony of responses
> which only tend to cloud the solution rather than move you closer to it."
> Jim Miller
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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My fill burps back so it is hard to tell if it is over filled. Gauge senders aren't accurate either. Could that fill the vent line causing the separator to fill?


Jerry Burt Fresno, CA.
73 Gmc 26' Canyon Lands
Members: FMCA - GMCMI - GMCWS
A truly happy person is one who can enjoy the scenery on a detour.
Re: Another fuel delivery problem? [message #302720 is a reply to message #302718] Mon, 27 June 2016 16:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
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Carl S. wrote on Mon, 27 June 2016 16:28
Not likely. Costco sells a VERY high volume of high quality gas and it is very unlikely that they have water in their tanks. I guess anything is possible though.

I don't know what the gas running out of the charcoal canister might have to do with this, but that shouldn't be happening either. That, and the ballooning of the tanks points to a venting problem of some sort.
Maybe not water, but SOMETHING in the gas.

Too much of a coincidence to be ignored.
Re: Another fuel delivery problem? [message #302721 is a reply to message #302709] Mon, 27 June 2016 16:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lqqkatjon is currently offline  lqqkatjon   United States
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Costo is good, but you never know.

We had a big thunderstorm roll through last year. Not unusual at all for MN, we get thunderstorm and huge quick rainfall often. This one happened in the evening, the next morning i was headed to work about 6:30 am, got a tankful of water. Here the new round-about they installed a month prior messed up the drainage. Gas station never had water in that tank 15 years prior, I was the lucky one at 6:30 am. another big gas supplier in town was vandalized on their diesel, and took out a bunch of city trucks.


boat gas tank will let you know what direction you need to pursue.




Jon Roche 75 palm beach EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now. St. Cloud, MN http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
Re: Another fuel delivery problem? [message #302722 is a reply to message #302720] Mon, 27 June 2016 16:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pjburt is currently offline  pjburt   United States
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A Hamilto wrote on Mon, 27 June 2016 14:39
Maybe not water, but SOMETHING in the gas.

Too much of a coincidence to be ignored.


That was my first thought when it happened. But, if it were water it wouldn't idle and start easily. I will check though.


Jerry Burt Fresno, CA.
73 Gmc 26' Canyon Lands
Members: FMCA - GMCMI - GMCWS
A truly happy person is one who can enjoy the scenery on a detour.
Re: [GMCnet] Another fuel delivery problem? [message #302723 is a reply to message #302719] Mon, 27 June 2016 16:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lqqkatjon is currently offline  lqqkatjon   United States
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35 gallon fill up, I would guess your tanks are full-full. You could try to drain off 10 gallons and see how it runs?





Jon Roche 75 palm beach EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now. St. Cloud, MN http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
Re: [GMCnet] Another fuel delivery problem? [message #302724 is a reply to message #302723] Mon, 27 June 2016 16:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pjburt is currently offline  pjburt   United States
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lqqkatjon wrote on Mon, 27 June 2016 14:47
35 gallon fill up, I would guess your tanks are full-full. You could try to drain off 10 gallons and see how it runs?


Palm plant... Duhhh... Sometimes I miss the simplest things. Thanx


Jerry Burt Fresno, CA.
73 Gmc 26' Canyon Lands
Members: FMCA - GMCMI - GMCWS
A truly happy person is one who can enjoy the scenery on a detour.
Re: [GMCnet] Another fuel delivery problem? [message #302725 is a reply to message #302717] Mon, 27 June 2016 16:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
emerystora is currently offline  emerystora   United States
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I would not consider by passing the separator as that could lead to large amounts of fuel spilling out. Bypassing the canister is another story. Several GMCers have done that. They run the hose from the vapor line on the separator down to the bogie area. This puts fuel fumes outside the motorhome. This is what it used to be for many years prior to the EPA pollution control regulations.

People who do this are ignoring the pollution control laws but if their canisters are leaking anyway it really doesn’t make much, if any, difference in pollution.

I had a cracked canister a couple of years ago and replaced it with one purchased from Applied GMC for $89.95. http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/1789

Prior to its replacement I spilled quite a bit of fuel on the ground whenever I filled my tanks.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO

> On Jun 27, 2016, at 3:24 PM, Jerry Burt wrote:
>
> Thanks all for the suggestions. I think I'll get a boat tank and bypass the system. If it works, I'll drain and drop the front tank check for water
> and rehab the tank. We are dealing with 100*+ temps and a metal building so it will be a little slow getting anything done.
>
> I read on one of the info sites about bypassing the separator/canister system. Temporarily of course. Any drawbacks?
>
> This thing went down the road really nice coming home from JimKs. I don't think there is anything drastic wrong. I'm just itching to hit the road.
> --
> Patti & Jerry Burt
> 73 Gmc 26'
> Photos - http://jburt.smugmug.com/GMC-Motorhome
> Lots of upgrades but lots to do to make it ours.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

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Re: [GMCnet] Another fuel delivery problem? [message #302726 is a reply to message #302725] Mon, 27 June 2016 17:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pjburt is currently offline  pjburt   United States
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emerystora wrote on Mon, 27 June 2016 14:57
I would not consider by passing the separator as that could lead to large amounts of fuel spilling out. Bypassing the canister is another story. Several GMCers have done that. They run the hose from the vapor line on the separator down to the bogie area. This puts fuel fumes outside the motorhome. This is what it used to be for many years prior to the EPA pollution control regulations.

People who do this are ignoring the pollution control laws but if their canisters are leaking anyway it really doesn't make much, if any, difference in pollution.

I had a cracked canister a couple of years ago and replaced it with one purchased from Applied GMC for $89.95. http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/1789

Prior to its replacement I spilled quite a bit of fuel on the ground whenever I filled my tanks.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
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Thanks Emory, that's the clarification I was looking for.


Jerry Burt Fresno, CA.
73 Gmc 26' Canyon Lands
Members: FMCA - GMCMI - GMCWS
A truly happy person is one who can enjoy the scenery on a detour.
Re: Another fuel delivery problem? [message #302727 is a reply to message #302709] Mon, 27 June 2016 17:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jgates is currently offline  jgates   United States
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When I bought my '73 the owner said not to fill it up or it would go about 2 blocks and stall. He was right. I disconnected the fuel vapor separator and plugged all the lines, left the gas cap loose, and all worked OK. Fuel vapor separator stuck open and feeding fuel instead of vapor....

Actually I made it 4 blocks but Enumclaw is a small town.

John Gates
Enumclaw, WA
Re: Another fuel delivery problem? [message #302728 is a reply to message #302709] Mon, 27 June 2016 17:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pjburt is currently offline  pjburt   United States
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Location: Fresno, California
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All right. I was going to just close up shop for the week (100*+ temps and metal building) and worry about this next week but now there are some things I'm going to have to try tomorrow. Thanks for motivating me again... I think Smile
I'll keep you posted on my progress.


Jerry Burt Fresno, CA.
73 Gmc 26' Canyon Lands
Members: FMCA - GMCMI - GMCWS
A truly happy person is one who can enjoy the scenery on a detour.

[Updated on: Mon, 27 June 2016 17:58]

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Re: Another fuel delivery problem? [message #302729 is a reply to message #302728] Mon, 27 June 2016 18:22 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
tphipps is currently offline  tphipps   United States
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Just remembered my last fuel related problem. The fuel line behind the middle wheel has a metal shield to protect the fuel and air lines in that area. The metal wore a hole in the gas line. Acts just like vapor lock because additional air is coming in with the fuel. Replaced hose, put additional protection on the line. No more trouble.
Tom, MS II


2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552 KA4CSG

[Updated on: Tue, 28 June 2016 05:28]

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