| Black tank trouble [message #302663] |
Sun, 26 June 2016 20:10  |
trapper
Messages: 52
Registered: April 2015
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Karma: 0
|
Member |
|
|
Hi all,
I had a bad leak at the sending unit of my black / holding tank. There was lots of excess silicone around that the PO tried to stop it but to no success. I 'thought' if I removed the sending unit I could get a new gasket and seal it up good (I have new sending units so I don't need this...just using it to plug the hole). Well anyways the screws were extremely rusted and in the process of removing the screws all but one broke and are stuck in there. You can see in the pic that it also has some good cracks in it.
Can this 'inner' part be replaced? I can't tell if it is part of the tank or separate. Can this part be replaced? Any options / suggestions to get this hole covered?
75 Glenbrook
|
|
|
|
| Re: Black tank trouble [message #302670 is a reply to message #302663] |
Sun, 26 June 2016 22:25  |
GMC Cruse
Messages: 606
Registered: June 2009
Location: SE Michigan
Karma: 3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I just fixed mine last week.
I drilled small holes at the ends of the cracks to help prevent them from spreading then used Bondic to seal them the best I could.
Next I made a block-off plate and drilled 5 holes in it. Then I drilled the sending unit flange between the existing holes to match the block-off plate. The flange is not as thick at the new holes as it is at the old screw holes, so I used Blue RTV as a gasket when mounting the plate. The RTV should take some of the stress off the screws.
I used the GMC over the weekend and while the tank didn't get real full yet even after traveling on these rough Michigan roads there is no sign of leakage.
Should add that at some spots I couldn't get a drill in there without angling it so I put the bit in a spare chuck and turned it by hand. It was pretty easy to do that since the tank is plastic.
Mike K.
'75 PB
Southeast Michigan
|
|
|
|
| Re: Black tank trouble [message #302675 is a reply to message #302663] |
Mon, 27 June 2016 00:11 |
Adrien G.
Messages: 474
Registered: May 2008
Location: Burns Flat, OK 73624
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Travis,
To do it right, the tank needs to come out. It's just too tight a place to do much there for a good fix.
The rusted screws can be notched out and plastic weld (polyethylene)fill the notches and cracks, and be as good as new.
Get stainless hardware when installing sender.
Before welding plastic clean the part or area and filler rod with 91% rubbing alcohol.
FWIW
Adrien & Jenny Genesoto
75 Glenbrook (26-3) Mods LS3.70 FD / Reaction Sys / 80mm Front&Intermidiate / Hydroboost / 16" Tires / Frame Rebuild / Interior Rebuild
Yuba City,Ca. Text 530-nine-3-three-3-nine-nine-6
[Updated on: Mon, 27 June 2016 00:15] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: Black tank trouble [message #302677 is a reply to message #302663] |
Mon, 27 June 2016 02:35 |
GMC Cruse
Messages: 606
Registered: June 2009
Location: SE Michigan
Karma: 3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Looking at your picture again and enlarging your it, the crack in the up right may have gotten past the fitting and into the back wall of the tank. Make sure you check that area closely before doing anything. Mine did in two spots and even though I made the repair mentioned earlier, I will be getting a new tank. That 41 year old tank seemed a little brittle to me.
Mine may also have another problem as the PO put a 6" wide piece of plywood between the left strap and the tank. I'm guessing there is some kind of repair under the plywood.
I am in the process of replacing all the 16.5 rims and tires so the $400 replacement black tank will have to wait until at least spring.
I recommend, you search for "are holding tanks repairable" and read Matt Colie's and others posts about welding black tanks before trying what I did or Adrien suggested. I used the Bondic as it claims it welds polypropylene but consider it a temporary fix.
Mike K.
'75 PB
Southeast Michigan
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Black tank trouble [message #302679 is a reply to message #302678] |
Mon, 27 June 2016 06:06 |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Travis
"You can see in the pic that it also has some good cracks in it."
There are no pictures on the email list. If you could post a link to the
pic it would be helpful.
Thanks
Mike in NS
On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 5:43 AM, gene Fisher wrote:
> Read here
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/MOUNT.html
>
>
>
> On Monday, June 27, 2016, Mike wrote:
>
>> Looking at your picture again and enlarging your it, the crack in the up
>> right may have gotten past the fitting and into the back wall of the
> tank.
>> Make sure you check that area closely before doing anything. Mine did in
>> two spots and even though I made the repair mentioned earlier, I will be
>> getting a new tank. That 41 year old tank seemed a little brittle to me.
>>
>> Mine may also have another problem as the PO put a 6" wide piece of
>> plywood between the left strap and the tank. I'm guessing there is some
>> kind of
>> repair under the plywood.
>>
>> I am in the process of replacing all the 16.5 rims and tires so the $400
>> replacement black tank will have to wait until at least spring.
>>
>> I recommend, you search for "are holding tanks repairable" and read Matt
>> Colie's and others posts about welding black tanks before trying what I
> did
>> or Adrien suggested. I used the Bondic as it claims it welds
>> polypropylene but consider it a temporary fix.
>> --
>> Mike K.
>> '75 PB
>> Southeast Michigan
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Black tank trouble [message #302687 is a reply to message #302681] |
Mon, 27 June 2016 09:42 |
GMC Cruse
Messages: 606
Registered: June 2009
Location: SE Michigan
Karma: 3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I blew up your picture and marked the area I was talking about.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/gmc-photos/p60875-black-tank-crack.html
That crack looks like it might go down the side of the fitting under the weld (the lighter colored material in your picture) to the back of the tank. Two of mine did. You had to look real close to see one of them.
With the discharge, toilet, vent, etc. connections removing the black tank can be a real pain. Since you don't need the sender and if the cracks aren't too far into the back of the tank, I'd be trying an in place repair first and just keep an eye on it.
Mike K.
'75 PB
Southeast Michigan
|
|
|
|
| Re: Black tank trouble [message #302690 is a reply to message #302677] |
Mon, 27 June 2016 10:07 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Mine cracked in exactly the same place 8 or 10 years ago. I cleaned it up with alcohol and took it to a plastic welder while the tank was still installed in the coach. He slid under the coach and in 10 minutes he fixed it.
He had me reinstall the sender with stainless screws and it has never leaked again. Cost was $25.00 at the time. He said that the regular (non-stainless) screws rust and expand cracking the tank. So only use stainless hardware when mounting the sender.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Black tank trouble [message #302697 is a reply to message #302695] |
Mon, 27 June 2016 11:40 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
|
Senior Member |
|
|
trapper wrote on Mon, 27 June 2016 11:28Thanks for all the replies...plastic welding...hmm...there is a place nearby I could inquire about that. Eventually I'll replace that tank...but looking for another 3 months of use first  A repair kit might get you that three months:
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/VER0/90214/N2359.oap It says not recommended for use on polyethylene or polypropylene tanks, but maybe it will hold for what you want.
Or a flat plate of some kind with a good slathering of RTV and about 6 screws around the perimeter.
If you gotta drop it to work on it, replace the tank. Fix it right, fix it once.
[Updated on: Mon, 27 June 2016 11:59] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Black tank trouble [message #302758 is a reply to message #302663] |
Tue, 28 June 2016 12:15 |
kstockwell
Messages: 367
Registered: May 2016
Location: Putney VT
Karma: 4
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Wow, good timing on this. I was considering replacing the gauge on mine since it doesn't work.
But, when I power the panel- the gauge moves to 6oclock (violently). I checked the connection and put the gauge readout into the fresh tank and it behaved properly.
So, am I getting some signal? could it be an electrical connection?
I'm more hesitant to go replacing the gauge now (which is probably a good thing)
For the last use I put a stick down the toilet and pumped out at 3.5". I have no idea how many inches is full. Also, does the toilet discharge go into the tank some? Water was up in the toilet hole and I didn't see wake waves when I let water down the sink but I think it's probably pushed into the tank some.
kelly
1978 kingsley
putney vt
1978 Kingsley
Putney VT
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Black tank trouble [message #302762 is a reply to message #302758] |
Tue, 28 June 2016 12:50 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Depends upon several variables. If you only have one tank or more than one.
If you have a rear bath or side bath. If you have a port or starboard side
galley. If you have a GMC up fitted coach. If you have a Coachman, Norris,
or Gemini up fitted coach. I have seen as many as 3 tanks in GMC coaches.
There is no answer that is always correct. You kinda have to follow the
drain plumbing and see where it winds up. For the most part, the toilet
drains directly into the black water tank, so does the shower and lavatory
sink. The kitchen sink USUALLY drains into the Grey water tank. Black and
Grey are not always the actual color of the tanks, nor their contents, but
references the intended contents. Black being human waste, Grey being
dishwater and etc. Confused yet ? Just wait a bit. (Grin)
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Jun 28, 2016 10:16 AM, "kelly stockwell" wrote:
> Wow, good timing on this. I was considering replacing the gauge on mine
> since it doesn't work.
> But, when I power the panel- the gauge moves to 6oclock (violently). I
> checked the connection and put the gauge readout into the fresh tank and it
> behaved properly.
>
> So, am I getting some signal? could it be an electrical connection?
>
> I'm more hesitant to go replacing the gauge now (which is probably a good
> thing)
> For the last use I put a stick down the toilet and pumped out at 3.5". I
> have no idea how many inches is full. Also, does the toilet discharge go
> into the tank some? Water was up in the toilet hole and I didn't see wake
> waves when I let water down the sink but I think it's probably pushed into
> the tank some.
>
> kelly
> 1978 kingsley
> putney vt
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Black tank trouble [message #302769 is a reply to message #302762] |
Tue, 28 June 2016 14:08 |
kstockwell
Messages: 367
Registered: May 2016
Location: Putney VT
Karma: 4
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Sorry, I was vague!
I have one waste tank on my 78 side wet bath Kingsley It's original and should be 40 gallons. I had to get a pumpout midway through our first festival, $40.
The toilet is toward the back of the tank where the tank is "deepest". with the pump off it's a straight shot into the tank. What I should do (when I'm at a dump site) is fill it slowly and check with the dipstick to see at what point waste starts coming up the shower drain. But, if anyone has already done this please fess up, how many inches of tank space do I have?
I do a LOT of dry camping at music festivals. So one of my first modifications is to put in a second shower drain that goes to the ground. When I can shower into the earth I will, when I can't I'll move the plug and shower into the waste tank.
Also, I may put in a diverter to the kitchen sink drain to a blue buddy. Kitchen sink water is gross, grosser than shower water.
And finally an outdoor shower hookup would be great. I can easily get to the cold water through the LP panel but I don't know how to tie into the hot water. A hot water tank was installed where my furnace used to be under the sink (another thing to look into later on; a furnace. currently only have a wall heater).
The other thing for me to do to check my waste gauge is to make sure I have continuity from the panel readout to the hot wire on the gauge. Maybe that gauge issue is only electrical.
Here's what it does when I push the button
https://youtu.be/4VNqLT787Ng
kelly
1978 kingsley
putney vt
1978 Kingsley
Putney VT
[Updated on: Tue, 28 June 2016 14:13] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Black tank trouble [message #302818 is a reply to message #302769] |
Wed, 29 June 2016 08:56 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
|
Senior Member |
|
|
you can cut your hair short, that will help use less water. I have no issues with water capacity when I am camping by myself or out with my off-road camping excursions with short haired folk. But when i am camping with my wife and daughters who all have long hair, it takes a bit more water to get the hair clean. my plan for there excessive water use showering is:
This tied into my propane system:
https://www.amazon.com/Eccotemp-L5-Portable-Tankless-Outdoor/dp/B000TXOJQ4/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1467206742&sr=8-3&keywords=instant+water +shower
hung on a shepards hook:
https://www.amazon.com/GrayBunny-GB-6817-Shepherd-Diameter-Resistant/dp/B013U4RBHC/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1467206627&sr=8-9&keywords=shepa rds+hook
and I already have a shower tent:
https://www.amazon.com/Leapair-Portable-Camping-Changing-backpack/dp/B01FABWTGG/ref=sr_1_1?s=outdoor-recreation&ie=UTF8&qid=1467206706&sr= 1-1-spons&keywords=shower+tent&psc=1
for water, I am going to install a valve just behind my city water connection. My 75 palm beach has the city water connection just above the drivers tires. I need to check to see if there is a check valve in that wall, but I think it has been removed before.
my other thought, if you do not have a Macerator, you should install one. and if you do not tow a car behind the coach, you could buy a small trailer and install water and sewer tanks on a trailer. and the macerator could easily transfer to one of them.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Black tank trouble [message #302834 is a reply to message #302818] |
Wed, 29 June 2016 10:52 |
kstockwell
Messages: 367
Registered: May 2016
Location: Putney VT
Karma: 4
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I got an outdoor unit to try out, but I still like the idea of a second shower drain in the RV.
though i plan to do any hair washing outside.
We're fine refilling the fresh and even getting a pump out from the porta pottie guy. Just looking to minimize the pumpouts and maximize the tank for what needs to go into it.
With our previous camper we had 34 gal grey, 29 of black. We could goto a few festivals without pumping out the black, but would fill the grey in 5-6 days.
Trailering a tank sounds like more work but an interesting idea. I don't want to trailer anything
thanks for the ideas!
kelly
lqqkatjon wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 09:56you can cut your hair short, that will help use less water. I have no issues with water capacity when I am camping by myself or out with my off-road camping excursions with short haired folk. But when i am camping with my wife and daughters who all have long hair, it takes a bit more water to get the hair clean. my plan for there excessive water use showering is:
This tied into my propane system:
https://www.amazon.com/Eccotemp-L5-Portable-Tankless-Outdoor/dp/B000TXOJQ4/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1467206742&sr=8-3&keywords=instant+water +shower
hung on a shepards hook:
https://www.amazon.com/GrayBunny-GB-6817-Shepherd-Diameter-Resistant/dp/B013U4RBHC/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1467206627&sr=8-9&keywords=shepa rds+hook
and I already have a shower tent:
https://www.amazon.com/Leapair-Portable-Camping-Changing-backpack/dp/B01FABWTGG/ref=sr_1_1?s=outdoor-recreation&ie=UTF8&qid=1467206706&sr= 1-1-spons&keywords=shower+tent&psc=1
for water, I am going to install a valve just behind my city water connection. My 75 palm beach has the city water connection just above the drivers tires. I need to check to see if there is a check valve in that wall, but I think it has been removed before.
my other thought, if you do not have a Macerator, you should install one. and if you do not tow a car behind the coach, you could buy a small trailer and install water and sewer tanks on a trailer. and the macerator could easily transfer to one of them.
1978 Kingsley
Putney VT
|
|
|
|
GMCforum
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
