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[GMCnet] time to change the alternator, again [message #302593] Fri, 24 June 2016 13:34 Go to next message
Ek_Lektro is currently offline  Ek_Lektro   United States
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My Eleganza’s Autozone 100 amp (lifetime warranty) alternator is putting out 15.5 to 17 volts, and i’ve been meaning to get around to replacing it... Meanwhile, the turn signals stopped working. changed the fuse, all good, but it blew again within a day. hopefully getting a normal alternator charge happening again will solve this problem and save further troubleshooting.
More news soon, cheers
Greg
Los Angeles
76 Birch 78 Eleganza
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Re: [GMCnet] time to change the alternator, again [message #302594 is a reply to message #302593] Fri, 24 June 2016 14:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
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Ek_Lektro wrote on Fri, 24 June 2016 13:34
My Eleganza's Autozone 100 amp (lifetime warranty) alternator is putting out 15.5 to 17 volts, and i've been meaning to get around to replacing it... Meanwhile, the turn signals stopped working. changed the fuse, all good, but it blew again within a day. hopefully getting a normal alternator charge happening again will solve this problem and save further troubleshooting.
More news soon, cheers
Greg
Los Angeles
76 Birch 78 Eleganza
I am guessing you have been keeping the water in the chassis and house batteries topped up. Otherwise you will need new ones of those as well.

[Updated on: Fri, 24 June 2016 14:04]

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Re: [GMCnet] time to change the alternator, again [message #302630 is a reply to message #302593] Sun, 26 June 2016 00:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
George Beckman is currently offline  George Beckman   United States
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Ek_Lektro wrote on Fri, 24 June 2016 11:34
My Eleganza's Autozone 100 amp (lifetime warranty) alternator is putting out 15.5 to 17 volts, and i've been meaning to get around to replacing it... Meanwhile, the turn signals stopped working. changed the fuse, all good, but it blew again within a day. hopefully getting a normal alternator charge happening again will solve this problem and save further troubleshooting.
More news soon, cheers
Greg
Los Angeles
76 Birch 78 Eleganza


Greg,

I feel your pain. You may get a good one one of these days. I could hardly make a trip anywhere and not have to change the alternator somewhere along the line. I have a 100 amp, I think from O'Reily's that has been OK for almost 10K miles. (Probably the same one AutoZone sells.) I have tried a local starter-alternator shop, Delco rebuilt, AutoZone, NAPA and O'Reily. It almost makes a fellow want to buy a 5 pack of the silly thngs.

I now have a double pulley and that means I have to have it removed and put on the new one. Added complexity unless I want to carry an impact wrench.


'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
Re: [GMCnet] time to change the alternator, again [message #302631 is a reply to message #302630] Sun, 26 June 2016 03:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr ERFisher is currently offline  Mr ERFisher   United States
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On Saturday, June 25, 2016, George Beckman wrote:

> Ek_Lektro wrote on Fri, 24 June 2016 11:34
>> My Eleganza's Autozone 100 amp (lifetime warranty) alternator is putting
> out 15.5 to 17 volts, and i've been meaning to get around to replacing
>> it... Meanwhile, the turn signals stopped working. changed the fuse,
> all good, but it blew again within a day. hopefully getting a normal
>> alternator charge happening again will solve this problem and save
> further troubleshooting.
>> More news soon, cheers
>> Greg
>> Los Angeles
>> 76 Birch 78 Eleganza
>
> Greg,
>
> I feel your pain. You may get a good one one of these days. I could hardly
> make a trip anywhere and not have to change the alternator somewhere along
> the line. I have a 100 amp, I think from O'Reily's that has been OK for
> almost 10K miles. (Probably the same one AutoZone sells.) I have tried a
> local
> starter-alternator shop, Delco rebuilt, AutoZone, NAPA and O'Reily. It
> almost makes a fellow want to buy a 5 pack of the silly thngs.
>
> I now have a double pulley and that means I have to have it removed and
> put on the new one. Added complexity unless I want to carry an impact
> wrench.


No need to replace the double, just use one side of it

And
Be sure you have an APC cable on your gmc😀






> --
> '74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
> Best Wishes,
> George
>
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--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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Re: [GMCnet] time to change the alternator, again [message #302645 is a reply to message #302593] Sun, 26 June 2016 09:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
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Before you go replacing that alternator, up unplug the APC cable if you have one, or the flat 2 conductor cable that goes in the back of the alternator and make sure that the actual connectors have good tension on them. I had your exact problem last spring and I found that both connectors had lost tension over the years and were not making good contact. I only found this AFTER I traded in a good alternator for a replacement. It turns out the one I turned in was good all the time.

Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: [GMCnet] time to change the alternator, again [message #302652 is a reply to message #302593] Sun, 26 June 2016 14:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jhbridges is currently offline  jhbridges   United States
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I did the same.

--johnny


Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
Re: [GMCnet] time to change the alternator, again [message #302653 is a reply to message #302645] Sun, 26 June 2016 15:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
George Beckman is currently offline  George Beckman   United States
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Ken Burton wrote on Sun, 26 June 2016 07:59
Before you go replacing that alternator, up unplug the APC cable if you have one, or the flat 2 conductor cable that goes in the back of the alternator and make sure that the actual connectors have good tension on them. I had your exact problem last spring and I found that both connectors had lost tension over the years and were not making good contact. I only found this AFTER I traded in a good alternator for a replacement. It turns out the one I turned in was good all the time.


Thanks, Ken. I will check that. I can't imagine those things losing tension after only 42 years. Maybe I should complain to GM. *smile*


'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
Re: [GMCnet] time to change the alternator, again [message #302654 is a reply to message #302593] Sun, 26 June 2016 16:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jhbridges is currently offline  jhbridges   United States
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Esy to see with an ammeter- goes to the pin on charge.

--johnny


Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
Re: [GMCnet] time to change the alternator, again [message #302674 is a reply to message #302593] Sun, 26 June 2016 23:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ek_Lektro is currently offline  Ek_Lektro   United States
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First off, Thanks again for everybody’s information about the ‘ole alternator mystery… and Sorry for the delayed response…! (I think i’m gonna have to subscribe to the regular email list and not the digest version any more, ‘cause sometimes the delay can be problematic, especially in this case:

I already removed the alternator! (#*%!!#)
I guess i considered the need to replace it a foregone conclusion,
and didn’t think there’d be some tests or connections to check that might save me the trouble. Well, when i take it to AutoZone tomorrow morning, we’ll see what’s up.

My main reasons for posting were in regards to blowing the turn signal fuses
(hoping to be reassured that this problem is due to the high alternator voltage :)
and secondarily, what might be causing my alternator(s) to go bad so quickly on both my coaches. I have some theories,… (only semi-educated theories. i definitely defer to the experts on this forum!)

Yes, i do have the APC circuit.
But no, i do not use isolators anymore. Since i’ve got a surplus of solar panels on the roof of both coaches, plus oversized house battery banks; i removed the charge cable going to the house batts a while ago, and i took out the isolator (in both coaches) (Could this be a problem?)

> That kind of output voltage is typical of losing the feedback circuit from
> the chassis battery to the alternator. The most common cause is an open
> diode on the chassis side of the isolator. When that diode opens, as they
> eventually do because of the thermal stresses they continually experience,

Ken, Are you saying that the isolator provides a stabilizing effect on voltage
whether or not its used for actual isolating? Should i install a new one, even though i don’t charge house batteries off the alternator?

and.. i’m gonna have to take a close look at those connectors.

Re: [GMCnet] time to change the alternator, again [message #302689 is a reply to message #302593] Mon, 27 June 2016 10:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnL455 is currently offline  JohnL455   United States
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Not sure hiw you wired things when you dtiched the isolator. Lack of sense cable would cause overvoltage. Also you hardly need the 100 set up to only charge engine. I can see no reason to remove the isolator even with solar or other sources. Also the 100A without upgraded wiring may be a waste.

John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
Re: [GMCnet] time to change the alternator, again [message #302694 is a reply to message #302689] Mon, 27 June 2016 11:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
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JohnL455 wrote on Mon, 27 June 2016 10:01
...I can see no reason to remove the isolator...
If it was obviated by a combiner, it makes sense to remove it to keep it from being an impediment to troubleshooting, whether it had failed or not.
Re: [GMCnet] time to change the alternator, again [message #302696 is a reply to message #302694] Mon, 27 June 2016 11:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
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In my world of, repair after failure occurs, the less complex a system is,
the easier it is to diagnose and repair. Fewer parts in assemblies fail
less often (for the most part). It is kinda nice to have some redundancy in
critical systems, but far nicer to have extreme reliability in primary
systems. An isolater is a very robust device, last for years, have no
moving parts, and on a GMC, sit right out there where they are easy to
check. Hang a bunch more combiner wires under that same hatch cover, add
battery disconnect marine switches, more battery cables, etc. and it
rapidly becomes time to sit back and scratch your head. Simple systems are
simply easier to service. My take anyway.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403

On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 9:17 AM, A. wrote:

> JohnL455 wrote on Mon, 27 June 2016 10:01
>> ...I can see no reason to remove the isolator...
> If it was obviated by a combiner, it makes sense to remove it to keep it
> from being an impediment to troubleshooting, whether it had failed or not.
> --
> 73 23' Sequoia 4 Sale
> 73 23' CanyonLands Parts Unit 4 Sale
> Upper Alabama
> "Posting on the GMCnet seems to always result in a cacophony of responses
> which only tend to cloud the solution rather than move you closer to it."
> Jim Miller
>
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Re: [GMCnet] time to change the alternator, again [message #302698 is a reply to message #302593] Mon, 27 June 2016 11:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ek_Lektro is currently offline  Ek_Lektro   United States
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> I can see no reason to remove the isolator even with solar or other sources.

Actually John, i was advised by a couple different mechanics that since we were running a house battery bank that consisted of (4) Trojan T-145’s, as compared to the more common bank of (2) Trojan T-1015’s; that this would be too much for the 100amp alternator and/or its usual wiring.
Although i imagine there might be an upgrade or a work-around for this, at the time i just took their advice...

> Also you hardly need the 100 set up to only
> charge engine.

yes, i figured it might be overkill… or that it had “head-room”…

but considering the dual air pumps, the air conditioning, headlights and marker lights,… Would it really be worth it to downgrade to a smaller size alternator? And is there one that fits the current bolts and pulleys, and is easily available from national auto parts chains (autozone)? but mainly, is there any gain to be had on efficiency, or reduced stress to the engine?

> Not sure hiw you wired things when you dtiched the isolator. Lack of sense cable would cause overvoltage.

This is what im going to look into right now… thanks!

Greg




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Re: [GMCnet] time to change the alternator, again [message #302699 is a reply to message #302696] Mon, 27 June 2016 11:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Hamilto is currently offline  A Hamilto   United States
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James Hupy wrote on Mon, 27 June 2016 11:33
In my world of, repair after failure occurs, the less complex a system is, the easier it is to diagnose and repair. Fewer parts in assemblies fail less often (for the most part). It is kinda nice to have some redundancy in critical systems, but far nicer to have extreme reliability in primary systems. An isolater is a very robust device, last for years, have no moving parts, and on a GMC, sit right out there where they are easy to check. Hang a bunch more combiner wires under that same hatch cover, add battery disconnect marine switches, more battery cables, etc. and it rapidly becomes time to sit back and scratch your head. Simple systems are simply easier to service. My take anyway.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
I agree. And this case has a charge controller and probably a real battery monitor and maybe a combiner. That isolator might have been what you just preached against - more parts to fail.
Re: [GMCnet] time to change the alternator, again [message #302737 is a reply to message #302698] Mon, 27 June 2016 20:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
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Ek_Lektro wrote on Mon, 27 June 2016 12:45
> I can see no reason to remove the isolator even with solar or other sources.
Actually John, i was advised by a couple different mechanics that since we were running a house battery bank that consisted of (4) Trojan T-145's, as compared to the more common bank of (2) Trojan T-1015's; that this would be too much for the 100amp alternator and/or its usual wiring.
Although i imagine there might be an upgrade or a work-around for this, at the time i just took their advice...

> Also you hardly need the 100 set up to only charge engine.
yes, i figured it might be overkill... or that it had "head-room"...

but considering the dual air pumps, the air conditioning, headlights and marker lights,... Would it really be worth it to downgrade to a smaller size alternator? And is there one that fits the current bolts and pulleys, and is easily available from national auto parts chains (autozone)? but mainly, is there any gain to be had on efficiency, or reduced stress to the engine?

> Not sure hiw you wired things when you dtiched the isolator. Lack of sense cable would cause overvoltage.

This is what im going to look into right now... thanks!

Greg

Greg,

I very much suspect that the mechanics that advised this might be an issue do not truly understand the situation.

Unless the coach has been massive reconfigured from stock, the 100 amp alternator won't matter.
The mis-appointment of the alternator's sense line will be a big issue. If your house bank is in the rear where most are, there is only a single run of #10SAE (not AWG) wire to it and that alone will keep the alternator from a damaging overload condition. Besides, as soon as you get over about 100amps on a single belt, it will smoke. So, that is a limit right there. If the alternator belt isn't smoking, you aren't overloading the machine.

Before the depression shut us down, we did a lot of house power upgrades for performance cruisers. (These are retired racing keel sloops.) I ran into issues like this all the time and made a living out to fixing them. That is where I was forced to learn the single belt rule.

Matt


Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: [GMCnet] time to change the alternator, again [message #302738 is a reply to message #302696] Mon, 27 June 2016 20:28 Go to previous message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
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James Hupy wrote on Mon, 27 June 2016 12:33
In my world of, repair after failure occurs, the less complex a system is, the easier it is to diagnose and repair. Fewer parts in assemblies fail less often (for the most part). It is kinda nice to have some redundancy in critical systems, but far nicer to have extreme reliability in primary systems. An isolater is a very robust device, last for years, have no moving parts, and on a GMC, sit right out there where they are easy to
check. Hang a bunch more combiner wires under that same hatch cover, add battery disconnect marine switches, more battery cables, etc. and it rapidly becomes time to sit back and scratch your head. Simple systems are simply easier to service. My take anyway.
Jim Hupy

Jim,

I sincerely hope that you are not waiting for an argument.....

Matt


Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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