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Steering column "springy" feeling [message #302073]

Mon, 13 June 2016 08:54

RF_Burns

Messages: 2277
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada

Karma: 3

Senior Member

When turning right, I can feel some "springy" give before the wheels start to turn. To check this out I rigged a pair of vice grips to hold the bottom end of the column shaft rigid. Then I tried turning the steering wheel, sure enough turning right there was some give for about 1/2" before it stopped against the lower shaft. Is there a spring pretensioner within the column shaft. I see there is a ball joint at the tilt point, but nothing mentioned about this.
Turning left has no give, just right.

Any ideas?

thanks

Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that

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Re: Steering column "springy" feeling [message #302074 is a reply to message #302073]

Mon, 13 June 2016 09:03

77Royale

Messages: 461
Registered: June 2014
Location: Mid Michigan

Karma: 6

Senior Member

Is it possible that a few of the Star headed bolts are loose down in the column? I cant imagine only one side of them going loose versus all 4, but I had a very sloppy steering wheel until I pulled it all apart to get at those 4 bolts. But the slop was everywhere not just turning in one direction. I dont recall any spring pre-tensioners, but there is a spring for the Tilt mechanism. There are also 2 sets of small ball bearings down in there which are only held in their cage by grease.

If the column it self is otherwise tight with no play in any direction up or down. (the whole column, not just turning the wheel left or right)

If its not in the column is it possible you have a loose bad tie rod end?

77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson carb and dizzy. Mid Michigan

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Re: [GMCnet] Steering column "springy" feeling [message #302075 is a reply to message #302074]

Mon, 13 June 2016 10:03

James Hupy

Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010

Karma: -62

Senior Member

Hey Bruce, sounds like a loose nut behind the wheel. (Grin) How you doing?
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Jun 13, 2016 7:04 AM, "Wayne Rogewski" wrote:

> Is it possible that a few of the Star headed bolts are loose down in the
> column? I cant imagine only one side of them going loose versus all 4, but I
> had a very sloppy steering wheel until I pulled it all apart to get at
> those 4 bolts. But the slop was everywhere not just turning in one
> direction.
> I dont recall any spring pre-tensioners, but there is a spring for the
> Tilt mechanism. There are also 2 sets of small ball bearings down in there
> which are only held in their cage by grease.
>
> If the column it self is otherwise tight with no play in any direction up
> or down. (the whole column, not just turning the wheel left or right)
>
> If its not in the column is it possible you have a loose bad tie rod end?
> --
> 77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson
> carb and dizzy.
> Mid Michigan
>
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> GMCnet mailing list
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Re: Steering column "springy" feeling [message #302080 is a reply to message #302073]

Mon, 13 June 2016 14:31

Matt Colie

Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan

Karma: 7

Senior Member

Bruce,

As not expert (I will leave that for Chuck), If you are securing the steering shaft above the CV joint, the only thing between that the and the steering wheel is the funny plastic joint for the tilt. Unless you have added that Cadillac telescoping part, then I am lost.

The part I am thinking of is only shown in the parts manual. Page 16.10 figure 16.035 parts 48~51. If you get to look at it, the set looks like a pair of forks grabbing a plastic ball. (Larger than a golf ball and smaller than a tennis ball.) As said, I had the misfortune to have that apart, but I don't think it could get that loose without something being broken.

Matt

RF_Burns wrote on Mon, 13 June 2016 09:54

When turning right, I can feel some "springy" give before the wheels start to turn. To check this out I rigged a pair of vice grips to hold the bottom end of the column shaft rigid. Then I tried turning the steering wheel, sure enough turning right there was some give for about 1/2" before it stopped against the lower shaft. Is there a spring pretensioner within the column shaft. I see there is a ball joint at the tilt point, but nothing mentioned about this.
Turning left has no give, just right.

Any ideas?

thanks

Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit

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Re: Steering column "springy" feeling [message #302081 is a reply to message #302073]

Mon, 13 June 2016 15:17

RF_Burns

Messages: 2277
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada

Karma: 3

Senior Member

I found this today http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/images/d/d6/Jazzman_Steering_Rack_Rebuild.pdf look on page 18. Shows a spring clip inside the ball joint at the tilt point to "take up slack".

I wonder if the spring clip is worn or broken.

Everything is new except the column so I guess that is next. Give me an excuse to get a multi-function direction signal lever.

So far
One Ton
-New upper and lower ball joints
-New inner and outer tie rod ends
-New upper and lower bushings
-New knuckle and wheel bearings
From Dave Lenzi
-Relay arm
-idler arm
-Rebuilt steering box
From Cinnibar
-Intermediate shaft
GM dealer
-Lower steering column bearing and retainer
-Stabilizer arm bushings and links
From JimB
- Adjustable drag link

Power steering pump rebuilt and new hoses cause they were leaking.
- New steering wheel cause I liked it

So column is all there is left!

Jim, I'm doing good. The pipes to the ticker haven't clogged up again so finger's crossed.

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Re: Steering column "springy" feeling [message #302082 is a reply to message #302073]

Mon, 13 June 2016 15:59

A Hamilto

Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011

Karma: 39

Senior Member

RF_Burns wrote on Mon, 13 June 2016 08:54

When turning right, I can feel some "springy" give before the wheels start to turn. To check this out I rigged a pair of vice grips to hold the bottom end of the column shaft rigid. Then I tried turning the steering wheel, sure enough turning right there was some give for about 1/2" before it stopped against the lower shaft. Is there a spring pretensioner within the column shaft. I see there is a ball joint at the tilt point, but nothing mentioned about this.
Turning left has no give, just right.

Any ideas?

thanks

Might be a symptom of steering box not centered: http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/steering-box/p54238-steering-box-adjustment.html

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Re: Steering column "springy" feeling [message #302083 is a reply to message #302073]

Mon, 13 June 2016 16:12

RF_Burns

Messages: 2277
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada

Karma: 3

Senior Member

The steering box should be centered. When I got the box from Dave Lenzi, he had a bracket on it to hold the shaft on-center. Which I transferred to a mark on the box and lined up all the way to the steering wheel.

What I see is turning the wheel to the left the steering reacts immediately, but to the right there is a dead zone, then it catches up. If I put a vice-grip at the top of the intermediate shaft where it meet the column, there is no play in either direction. But fix the vice-grip so the lower shaft cant move, turn the steering wheel right and it can move about 1/2" then stops against the vice grips, feels like pushing against a spring, then stops. Turning left there is no movement (no spring feel).

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Re: Steering column "springy" feeling [message #302088 is a reply to message #302083]

Mon, 13 June 2016 18:17

Matt Colie

Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan

Karma: 7

Senior Member

Well, Damn,
I didn't know that spring was in there.....

Matt

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Re: Steering column "springy" feeling [message #302097 is a reply to message #302081]

Mon, 13 June 2016 19:46

C Boyd

Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006

Karma: 18

Senior Member

Sir, every mh column I have taken apart was worn where the spring clip rubs. Usually you can tear it down in the coach to the nylon ball and flip the ball 180* and it will put the spring on a virgin surface and will tighten up. Do not flip the upper steering shaft, just remove it and flip the nylon ball then put the upper shaft back on in same place.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/s-10-steering-wheel-caddy-conversion/p47389-most-all-the-motorhomes-are-wore-here.html
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/s-10-steering-wheel-caddy-conversion/p47387-gmc-steering-knuckle.html
There is bout a 30% chance the pot metal bearing housing is busted.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/s-10-steering-wheel-caddy-conversion/p47938-dsc00285.html
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/s-10-steering-wheel-caddy-conversion/p47937-dsc00284.html
It does need to be inspected internally. It would be a good time to update as none of the downer columns I have used out of Caddys or Chevy trucks were worn where the spring rides.

RF_Burns wrote on Mon, 13 June 2016 16:17

I found this today http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/images/d/d6/Jazzman_Steering_Rack_Rebuild.pdf look on page 18. Shows a spring clip inside the ball joint at the tilt point to "take up slack".

I wonder if the spring clip is worn or broken.

Everything is new except the column so I guess that is next. Give me an excuse to get a multi-function direction signal lever.

So far
One Ton
-New upper and lower ball joints
-New inner and outer tie rod ends
-New upper and lower bushings
-New knuckle and wheel bearings
From Dave Lenzi
-Relay arm
-idler arm
-Rebuilt steering box
From Cinnibar
-Intermediate shaft
GM dealer
-Lower steering column bearing and retainer
-Stabilizer arm bushings and links
From JimB
- Adjustable drag link

Power steering pump rebuilt and new hoses cause they were leaking.
- New steering wheel cause I liked it

So column is all there is left!

Jim, I'm doing good. The pipes to the ticker haven't clogged up again so finger's crossed.

C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee

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Re: Steering column "springy" feeling [message #302102 is a reply to message #302073]

Mon, 13 June 2016 20:34

RF_Burns

Messages: 2277
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada

Karma: 3

Senior Member

Chuck,
Thanks for that info and the photos. That looks like the culprit.

I was wondering why every motorhome was worn and every car or pickup wasn't. Then it hit me...every time I buy a new car or truck, first thing I do when i get in to drive home is adjust the tilt to my liking. Which happens to be perfectly straight column like there was no tilt available. And that's where it stays till the day i trade it off. So if most people are like me, theirs will be straight too so no wear.

On the other hand the GMC is cranked to to maximum down angle and the joint wears a groove.

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Re: Steering column "springy" feeling [message #302104 is a reply to message #302102]

Mon, 13 June 2016 20:41

C Boyd

Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006

Karma: 18

Senior Member

I kinda thought it might be the 12,000 lb mh with 4000 on the steering axle.

RF_Burns wrote on Mon, 13 June 2016 21:34

Chuck,
Thanks for that info and the photos. That looks like the culprit.

I was wondering why every motorhome was worn and every car or pickup wasn't. Then it hit me...every time I buy a new car or truck, first thing I do when i get in to drive home is adjust the tilt to my liking. Which happens to be perfectly straight column like there was no tilt available. And that's where it stays till the day i trade it off. So if most people are like me, theirs will be straight too so no wear.

On the other hand the GMC is cranked to to maximum down angle and the joint wears a groove.

C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee

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