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6000 KW generator removal [message #301719]

Mon, 06 June 2016 19:47

Glover, Brian K.

Messages: 87
Registered: October 2015
Location: Griffin Georgia

Karma: 0

Member

I was looking over the generator compartment and found above the generator there is a foam type padding ( guess it is original must be some kind of heat shield material ) It's falling apart and looks kind of burnt / melted.
I need to pull it out and replace it with some kind of heat shield material ?
But my bigger question / help / direction is pulling the generator ? I Have to pull it to get to and replace heat shield, so any direction would really be appreciated !?

Thanks in advance .

Brian

Brian G. Griffin Ga. 1978 Eleganza II TZE168V101637

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Re: 6000 KW generator removal [message #301722 is a reply to message #301719]

Mon, 06 June 2016 20:17

Carl S.

Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.

Karma: 13

Senior Member

Glover, Brian K. wrote on Mon, 06 June 2016 17:47

I was looking over the generator compartment and found above the generator there is a foam type padding ( guess it is original must be some kind of heat shield material ) It's falling apart and looks kind of burnt / melted.
I need to pull it out and replace it with some kind of heat shield material ?
But my bigger question / help / direction is pulling the generator ? I Have to pull it to get to and replace heat shield, so any direction would really be appreciated !?

Thanks in advance .

Brian

I'm interested in this thread too as I am about to undertake the same job. I know there is a 3/8" tapped hole in the center of the intake manifold that you can screw an eye bolt into and lift the entire unit with an engine hoist. Beyond that, I guess it is just a matter of unbolting the supports and disconnecting the cables etc.

I ordered the new insulation/sound deadening material from Jim Bounds last week and am looking forward to the opportunity to finally clean up that area. I am also going to replace my high hour, but good running Onan with a reconditioned 6 KW Power Drawer I picked up from a fellow GMCer. The old one will be for sale so I can hopefully recoup some of my expenses.

Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

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Re: 6000 KW generator removal [message #301726 is a reply to message #301719]

Mon, 06 June 2016 20:29

JohnL455

Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL

Karma: 12

Senior Member

Disconnect both battery negative cables. Yes get the forged shouldered eyebolt. I need a shackle as well as hook on hoist too big. Pull all the way out and use an engine hoist. I used the middle reach length on the Horror Fright 1ton. Get some lifting tension started and then remove all the small short bolts to the tracks. Pinch off fuel line and disconnect. The hard part is gettting it part way out and compressing the strain reliefs on the batt cables, disconnecting the Burndys in the 1900 box and fishing the controll cable through. I sort of breasted it aside on the hook as I worked in there.

John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

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Re: 6000 KW generator removal [message #301728 is a reply to message #301719]

Mon, 06 June 2016 20:30

wally

Messages: 643
Registered: August 2004
Location: Omaha Nebraska

Karma: 5

Senior Member

Glover, Brian K. wrote on Mon, 06 June 2016 19:47

I was looking over the generator compartment and found above the generator there is a foam type padding ( guess it is original must be some kind of heat shield material ) It's falling apart and looks kind of burnt / melted.
I need to pull it out and replace it with some kind of heat shield material ?
But my bigger question / help / direction is pulling the generator ? I Have to pull it to get to and replace heat shield, so any direction would really be appreciated !?

Thanks in advance .

Brian

Generator removal is described in section 24C-8 of the GMC's service manual X7525. It lists using the hole in the intake manifold as a lifting point.

MOTOR GENERATOR REPLACEMENT
REMOVAL
1 . Open access door and support in this position .
2 . Slide unit out of compartment.
3 . Disconnect ground cable (-) at battery.
4. Install lifting eye in manifold on top of unit . A
3/8-16 threaded hole is provided in the manifold for
this purpose.
5. Attach a suitable lifting device into lifting eye,
and remove slack.ONAN MOTOR GENERATOR
24C- 9
6. Remove bolts from both sliding arms (figure
7. Disconnect fuel line and all electrical leads .
8 . Remove unit from its slide rail and place on a suitable bench or stand.

Hope this helps.

Wally Anderson
Omaha NE
75 Glenbrook

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Re: 6000 KW generator removal [message #301729 is a reply to message #301719]

Mon, 06 June 2016 20:33

JohnL455

Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL

Karma: 12

Senior Member

I used WD40 to flush clean the paste/mud from the tracks and to clean the floor of the enclosure with WD and a putty knife. Then lots of paper towels. The accumulated oily sludge is a fire hazzard.

John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

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Re: [GMCnet] 6000 KW generator removal [message #301735 is a reply to message #301719]

Mon, 06 June 2016 21:10

Jim Miller

Messages: 501
Registered: March 2008

Karma: 10

Senior Member

On Jun 6, 2016, at 8:47 PM, Glover wrote:

> I was looking over the generator compartment and found above the generator there is a foam type padding ( guess it is original must be some kind of
> heat shield material ) It's falling apart and looks kind of burnt / melted. I need to pull it out and replace it with some kind of heat shield material ?

Or leave the old foam in place and cover with reflectix or similar. It might not get as hot in there as you would think - and you might be surprised under what circumstances the compartment reaches its maximum temperature. I was curious about this myself so I instrumented the enclosure with thermocouples and logged the results:

http://www.jcmco.com/gallery/album29

You’ll probably find it extremely difficult to remove the OEM foam. If you keep it and cover it with reflectix then you increase the R-value and thus decrease the amount of heat that reaches the interior of the coach. Being reflective, the reflectix insulation directs IR away from the coach rather than allowing it to be absorbed.

Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH

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Jim Miller 1977 Eleganza II 1977 Royale Hamilton, OH

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Re: [GMCnet] 6000 KW generator removal [message #301739 is a reply to message #301735]

Mon, 06 June 2016 21:33

Ken Henderson

Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA

Karma: 9

Senior Member

Nice study, Jim. I'm really surprised at how low the temps are, except for
the exhaust neighborhood rise. I need to do something similar with my
TroyBilt generator. I've satisfied myself that the temps are safe, using
an IR heat gun, but not done a study like yours.

Ken H.

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 10:10 PM, Jim Miller wrote:

> On Jun 6, 2016, at 8:47 PM, Glover wrote:
>
>> I was looking over the generator compartment and found above the
> generator there is a foam type padding ( guess it is original must be some
> kind of
>> heat shield material ) It's falling apart and looks kind of burnt /
> melted. I need to pull it out and replace it with some kind of heat shield
> material ?
>
> Or leave the old foam in place and cover with reflectix or similar. It
> might not get as hot in there as you would think - and you might be
> surprised under what circumstances the compartment reaches its maximum
> temperature. I was curious about this myself so I instrumented the
> enclosure with thermocouples and logged the results:
>
> http://www.jcmco.com/gallery/album29
>
> You’ll probably find it extremely difficult to remove the OEM foam. If
> you keep it and cover it with reflectix then you increase the R-value and
> thus decrease the amount of heat that reaches the interior of the coach.
> Being reflective, the reflectix insulation directs IR away from the coach
> rather than allowing it to be absorbed.
>
> Jim Miller
> 1977 Eleganza
> 1977 Royale
> Hamilton, OH
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach

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Re: [GMCnet] 6000 KW generator removal [message #301742 is a reply to message #301735]

Mon, 06 June 2016 21:50

Carl S.

Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.

Karma: 13

Senior Member

Really good information, Jim. It makes it obvious that the system was designed to be run with the generator in the compartment. As Ken said, the temps are surprisingly low.

Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

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Re: [GMCnet] 6000 KW generator removal [message #301744 is a reply to message #301739]

Mon, 06 June 2016 21:55

Jim Miller

Messages: 501
Registered: March 2008

Karma: 10

Senior Member

On Jun 6, 2016, at 10:33 PM, Ken Henderson wrote:

> Nice study, Jim. I'm really surprised at how low the temps are, except for the exhaust neighborhood rise. I need to do something similar with my
> TroyBilt generator. I've satisfied myself that the temps are safe, using an IR heat gun, but not done a study like yours.

Hi Ken,

Thanks for the nice words. I dislike speculation when it comes to engineering problems so I always try to gather as much empirical data as I can.

What I found ironic in this study was that the air *under* the generator was hotter by several tens of degrees compared to the temps inside the compartment during operation. This data is not on the graph but is shown in one of the pictures on the red thermocouple unit: the intake air going into the bell housing of the generator from under the coach was 107F (T1) and the air leaving the blower was 187F (T2). This 80F delta-T remained constant across all load conditions of the generator - from zero load to full load. For this reason I think the Ragusa blower deflector would be a very good item to have in place in order to get the hot air away from the unit as fast as possible. The velocity of the discharge air will carry it far enough from the coach that it will rise away by convection instead of being brought back into the generator.

I plan to do the experiment again with better instrumentation. I was having one heck of a time with ignition noise getting into the thermocouple leads and scrambling the logging results - hence the clamp-around ferrites.

Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH

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Jim Miller 1977 Eleganza II 1977 Royale Hamilton, OH

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Re: [GMCnet] 6000 KW generator removal [message #301746 is a reply to message #301744]

Mon, 06 June 2016 22:07

Ken Henderson

Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA

Karma: 9

Senior Member

Jim,

I suspect you're right about the importance of getting the exhaust air away
from beneath the Onan. I equipped my 4kW with a sheet aluminum deflector
for just that reason -- similar to the Ragusa, but homemade.

And that's something I should check with the Troy-Bilt. Its exhaust duct
is all across the inside wall of the compartment, forced primarily by the
12 VDC blower on the compartment door grille. In other words, the hot
air's being forced all under the coach so that I'm not really ever in
contact with it to be disturbed. If I ever ran it long enough, the coach
floor might get hot. I'll check those temps soon. Thanks.

Ken H.

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Jim Miller wrote:

> On Jun 6, 2016, at 10:33 PM, Ken Henderson wrote:
>
>> Nice study, Jim. I'm really surprised at how low the temps are, except
> for the exhaust neighborhood rise. I need to do something similar with my
>> TroyBilt generator. I've satisfied myself that the temps are safe,
> using an IR heat gun, but not done a study like yours.
>
> Hi Ken,
>
> Thanks for the nice words. I dislike speculation when it comes to
> engineering problems so I always try to gather as much empirical data as I
> can.
>
> What I found ironic in this study was that the air *under* the generator
> was hotter by several tens of degrees compared to the temps inside the
> compartment during operation. This data is not on the graph but is shown in
> one of the pictures on the red thermocouple unit: the intake air going into
> the bell housing of the generator from under the coach was 107F (T1) and
> the air leaving the blower was 187F (T2). This 80F delta-T remained
> constant across all load conditions of the generator - from zero load to
> full load. For this reason I think the Ragusa blower deflector would be a
> very good item to have in place in order to get the hot air away from the
> unit as fast as possible. The velocity of the discharge air will carry it
> far enough from the coach that it will rise away by convection instead of
> being brought back into the generator.
>
> I plan to do the experiment again with better instrumentation. I was
> having one heck of a time with ignition noise getting into the thermocouple
> leads and scrambling the logging results - hence the clamp-around ferrites.
>
>
> Jim Miller
> 1977 Eleganza
> 1977 Royale
> Hamilton, OH
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach

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Re: [GMCnet] 6000 KW generator removal [message #301778 is a reply to message #301735]

Tue, 07 June 2016 10:30

emerystora

Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004

Karma: 13

Senior Member

Very good information, Jim. 30 deg C (86 deg F) when running is lower than I would expect.
What was the ambient air temperature when you did the test?

Some people think that if they open the door it will run cooler but I understand that opening the door interferes with the cooling air flow and it should be kept closed when the Onan is running.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO

> On Jun 6, 2016, at 8:10 PM, Jim Miller wrote:
>
> On Jun 6, 2016, at 8:47 PM, Glover wrote:
>
>> I was looking over the generator compartment and found above the generator there is a foam type padding ( guess it is original must be some kind of
>> heat shield material ) It's falling apart and looks kind of burnt / melted. I need to pull it out and replace it with some kind of heat shield material ?
>
> Or leave the old foam in place and cover with reflectix or similar. It might not get as hot in there as you would think - and you might be surprised under what circumstances the compartment reaches its maximum temperature. I was curious about this myself so I instrumented the enclosure with thermocouples and logged the results:
>
> http://www.jcmco.com/gallery/album29
>
> You’ll probably find it extremely difficult to remove the OEM foam. If you keep it and cover it with reflectix then you increase the R-value and thus decrease the amount of heat that reaches the interior of the coach. Being reflective, the reflectix insulation directs IR away from the coach rather than allowing it to be absorbed.
>
> Jim Miller
> 1977 Eleganza
> 1977 Royale
> Hamilton, OH
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

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Re: 6000 KW generator removal [message #301781 is a reply to message #301719]

Tue, 07 June 2016 10:48

jhbridges

Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga

Karma: -74

Senior Member

Ken, let me know how yours comes out. I see temps in the 170s behind the set, which I think come from the cooling blower and lack of baffling. I'm going to put some flash metal in to direct the airflow off the engine across the exhaust piping and out the bottom of the coach. If I do it right, the blower should get its makeup air from under the front of the bay, and exhaust it out the back at fairly high velocity. Meanwhile, the door fan will make up the alternator cooling air. I hope.

--johnny

Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

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Re: 6000 KW generator removal [message #301798 is a reply to message #301719]

Tue, 07 June 2016 15:52

Ernest Dankert

Messages: 133
Registered: May 2007
Location: Ogden, New York

Karma: 1

Senior Member

I used a furniture dolly from Home Depot and built a 2x4/2x6 stand with deck
screws to fit the dolly to the Onan. Aired up the suspension and place the
assembly under the Onan. Eased some air out of the suspension and let the dolly
take up the weight. Disconnect and roll out. Even ran it on the dolly before
reinstallation.

Under load the exhaust manifold will be a pretty powerful infrared emitter.
Foil face heat shield from Autozone was what I used. It was supposed to be self
stick; but needed some help.

1977 Eleganza II
Ogden NY

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Re: [GMCnet] 6000 KW generator removal [message #301812 is a reply to message #301778]

Tue, 07 June 2016 21:22

Jim Miller

Messages: 501
Registered: March 2008

Karma: 10

Senior Member

On Jun 7, 2016, at 11:30 AM, Emery Stora wrote:

> Very good information, Jim. 30 deg C (86 deg F) when running is lower than I would expect.
> What was the ambient air temperature when you did the test?

Hi Emery,

Ambient was around 85F during the test.

--Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH

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Jim Miller 1977 Eleganza II 1977 Royale Hamilton, OH

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Re: [GMCnet] 6000 KW generator removal [message #301814 is a reply to message #301812]

Tue, 07 June 2016 23:53

jimk

Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA

Karma: 9

Senior Member

The air deflector serves two purpose.
Puting the heated air to the side so the air entering the engine will be
lower and to cut down on the dust it stirs up as the original blows
directly down on the ground. We sell several a month .

On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 7:22 PM, Jim Miller wrote:

> On Jun 7, 2016, at 11:30 AM, Emery Stora wrote:
>
>> Very good information, Jim. 30 deg C (86 deg F) when running is lower
> than I would expect.
>> What was the ambient air temperature when you did the test?
>
> Hi Emery,
>
> Ambient was around 85F during the test.
>
> --Jim Miller
> 1977 Eleganza
> 1977 Royale
> Hamilton, OH
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502

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Re: [GMCnet] 6000 KW generator removal [message #301827 is a reply to message #301814]

Wed, 08 June 2016 08:39

bdub

Messages: 1578
Registered: February 2004
Location: Central Texas

Karma: 5

Senior Member

http://appliedgmc.com/search.itml?icQuery=deflector

On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 11:53 PM, Jim Kanomata wrote:

> The air deflector serves two purpose.
> Putting the heated air to the side so the air entering the engine will be
> lower and to cut down on the dust it stirs up as the original blows
> directly down on the ground. We sell several a month .
>
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bdub
'76 Palm Beach/Central Texas
www.bdub.net
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www.gmcmotorhomemarketplace.com
www.gmcmhregistry.com
www.facebook.com/groups/classicgmcmotorhomes
www.facebook.com/groups/gmcmm

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Re: 6000 KW generator removal [message #301865 is a reply to message #301719]

Wed, 08 June 2016 15:23

Glover, Brian K.

Messages: 87
Registered: October 2015
Location: Griffin Georgia

Karma: 0

Member

want to thank everyone for all there help and information and will let you know how the removal goes when complete,

thanks

Brian G. Griffin Ga. 1978 Eleganza II TZE168V101637

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