Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] More on FiTech questions
[GMCnet] More on FiTech questions [message #301220] |
Sat, 28 May 2016 00:03 |
glwgmc
Messages: 1014 Registered: June 2004
Karma: 10
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Hi Larry and others. We are currently in a part of AK with good internet so will comment on several of your questions.
The principals of the company are experienced veteran OEM and after market EFI designers and suppliers so this is hardly their first rodeo. Their web site or a direct call is the best way to determine for yourself the details of components used. What I have observed is that the units are very nicely pressure cast and machined with no manufacturing shortcuts or amateur hour design choices evident to me. Everything in the package appears to be current generation OEM quality stuff from the wire harness to connectors to the linkage, fittings, high pressure hose, etc. The packaging also shows a very professional approach so I doubt if there are any shortcuts or cheap seat stuff on the inside either.
I found nothing that would cause me any concern about quality or longevity. I don't remember whether there is a software update provision or not but I think I recall something about that in the instructions. As to the underlying question about what happens if something goes south while you are out in the boonies, I found it easy to install in such a way that I could revert back to a carb on the side of the road in less than 20 or 30 minutes without ever crawling under the coach. I just pitched the carb up in the pod. To date I have had no question about reliability or longevity.
One thing that reinforces that feeling is the absence of external stuff interconnected with wires running all over the place. There are only two external sensors - the O2 sensor and the water temp sensor. Everything else is built into the throttle body itself.
The advantage of this and others of these new generation of self learning EFI units is they can employ the very latest off the shelf things like the newest Bosch wide band O2 sensor, injectors, throttle position sensors, microprocessors, etc. that are far faster and more heat resistant than their predecessors. I will have more detailed info at the presentation at the four club rally in October in Coos Bay, OR, so for now would direct anyone interested to study the info published on their web site and read the large number of mag reviews on the net for component details.
They do not to my knowledge offer or include knock sensors with any of their kits. Most kits do include spark control over a standard distributor with the mechanical advance blocked off, but the staff there I spoke with and the reviews I have read indicate most people use their stock HEI distributors. If our 455s had ever been designed with a factory knock sensor I would be all over using more sophisticated spark control, but I don't know enough about the intricacies of where or how to mount an after market knock sensor to be willing to try and squeeze another mpg so I will forego that for now.
This trip to AK in the Royale with a carb has reinforced my desire to upgrade this coach also when we get back. While this Royale with a strong S&J engine, Patterson carb and HEI, and proper 3.67 gearing is a joy to drive and performs like a champ up hill and down (other than something - likely leaky bowl plug - which makes for rich starting) the advantages to EFI that we enjoyed in our Mexico trip in the Clasco last winter are just too great not to enjoy on the Royale as well. Both the FiTech 600 hp unit and the somewhat less expensive 400 hp unit (no spark control and I think smaller injectors) are a no brainier if you drive as much each year as we do in both our coaches.
More in October.
Jerry
Jerry Work
The Dovetail Joint
Fine furniture designed & hand crafted
in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building
in historic Kerby, OR
http://jerrywork.com
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Jerry & Sharon Work
78 Royale
Kerby, OR
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Re: [GMCnet] More on FiTech questions [message #301234 is a reply to message #301220] |
Sat, 28 May 2016 14:04 |
gibsongo
Messages: 116 Registered: October 2012 Location: Montreal West, Quebec, Ca...
Karma: 0
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Jerry
I really appreciate your posts on installing a Fitech in one of your coaches - comments like this plus the fact that I was going to have to bear the cost of buying a rebuilt Quadrajet to finish off my coach were what prompted me to go the Fitech route.
Full disclosure - although I have rebuilt old cars and motorcycles, my mechanical knowledge of anything more modern that the mid-60s is sorely lacking. But rest assured - I am having the FI installed by a professional.
I specifically chose the 600 based on the understanding that the FI's computer module would control the spark advance of my "pointless" distributor. Do I understand that according to Fitech, most of their customers stick with good old mechanical and vacuum spark control? And if this is the case, any reason why? Is this what you did as well?
Thanks
Gordon
1976 23' Norris Upfit
Montreal West, Quebec, Canada
Gordon Gibson
1976 23" Norris Upfit
Montreal West, Quebec, Canada
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Re: [GMCnet] More on FiTech questions [message #301351 is a reply to message #301234] |
Tue, 31 May 2016 21:01 |
rvanwin
Messages: 325 Registered: April 2007 Location: Battlefield, MO
Karma: 6
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gibsongo wrote on Sat, 28 May 2016 14:04Jerry
I really appreciate your posts on installing a Fitech in one of your coaches - comments like this plus the fact that I was going to have to bear the cost of buying a rebuilt Quadrajet to finish off my coach were what prompted me to go the Fitech route.
Full disclosure - although I have rebuilt old cars and motorcycles, my mechanical knowledge of anything more modern that the mid-60s is sorely lacking. But rest assured - I am having the FI installed by a professional.
I specifically chose the 600 based on the understanding that the FI's computer module would control the spark advance of my "pointless" distributor. Do I understand that according to Fitech, most of their customers stick with good old mechanical and vacuum spark control? And if this is the case, any reason why? Is this what you did as well?
Thanks
Gordon
1976 23' Norris Upfit
Montreal West, Quebec, Canada
According to FiTech documentation, timing control cannot be used with an HEI Distributor. It is not clear to me if there is a distributor that could be substituted on an Olds engine to allow computer control by the FiTech EFI. If it cannot control spark on the 455 or 403, then I would see no reason to get the 600 hp efi unit. The 400 hp unit would be adequate and costs less. I have also seen references that you can pin the mechanical advance plate and get the HEI to work. I would think FiTech would not say HEI was not supported if this were possible? Looks like you could install an MSD ignition system and get this to work.
However, They only have a 3x3 table to control spark so I would be concerned if you get much benefit to letting the EFI unit control spark. I'm guessing you can command Spark Advance (SA) for 9 points and it then extrapolates those into a spark curve. Maybe slightly better than an HEI curved distributor but not by much. Most early GM TBI EFI systems had up to 12 x 16 cells for SA (more for higher RPMs than in our applications).
Interesting to see how computer controlled spark actually works/performs for our application?
Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO
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Re: [GMCnet] More on FiTech questions [message #301892 is a reply to message #301351] |
Thu, 09 June 2016 08:12 |
Justin Brady
Messages: 769 Registered: April 2015 Location: Bell Buckle, TN
Karma: 11
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rvanwin wrote on Tue, 31 May 2016 21:01gibsongo wrote on Sat, 28 May 2016 14:04Jerry
I really appreciate your posts on installing a Fitech in one of your coaches - comments like this plus the fact that I was going to have to bear the cost of buying a rebuilt Quadrajet to finish off my coach were what prompted me to go the Fitech route.
Full disclosure - although I have rebuilt old cars and motorcycles, my mechanical knowledge of anything more modern that the mid-60s is sorely lacking. But rest assured - I am having the FI installed by a professional.
I specifically chose the 600 based on the understanding that the FI's computer module would control the spark advance of my "pointless" distributor. Do I understand that according to Fitech, most of their customers stick with good old mechanical and vacuum spark control? And if this is the case, any reason why? Is this what you did as well?
Thanks
Gordon
1976 23' Norris Upfit
Montreal West, Quebec, Canada
According to FiTech documentation, timing control cannot be used with an HEI Distributor. It is not clear to me if there is a distributor that could be substituted on an Olds engine to allow computer control by the FiTech EFI. If it cannot control spark on the 455 or 403, then I would see no reason to get the 600 hp efi unit. The 400 hp unit would be adequate and costs less. I have also seen references that you can pin the mechanical advance plate and get the HEI to work. I would think FiTech would not say HEI was not supported if this were possible? Looks like you could install an MSD ignition system and get this to work.
However, They only have a 3x3 table to control spark so I would be concerned if you get much benefit to letting the EFI unit control spark. I'm guessing you can command Spark Advance (SA) for 9 points and it then extrapolates those into a spark curve. Maybe slightly better than an HEI curved distributor but not by much. Most early GM TBI EFI systems had up to 12 x 16 cells for SA (more for higher RPMs than in our applications).
Interesting to see how computer controlled spark actually works/performs for our application?
It looks like I am Guinea Pigging this one!
Went to start the GMC a few days ago and no spark out of nowhere. Tore it apart and it ended up being the old HEI, some wires internally were cut through and crumbled to nothing when I touched them.
Made the call to go ahead and do the fitech install along with a new distributor and use the fitech for the timing control.
MSD Pro Billet 8566 is the distributor you want. From there I went with a standard Blaster 2 coil (also MSD). This SHOULD allow me to control the timing with the Fitech 600.
I had planned to go the 400 Route, but since the HEI decided to fall apart, I said ah hell why not?
Justin Brady
http://www.thegmcrv.com/
1976 Palm Beach 455
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Re: [GMCnet] More on FiTech questions [message #301897 is a reply to message #301892] |
Thu, 09 June 2016 08:53 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446 Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Guy,
What Distributor base did we use with the Howell/EBL with spark control, I remember vaguely that it was from the 307 of the mid to late 80’s. What did we use, am I really close?
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan
>
> It looks like I am Guinea Pigging this one!
> Went to start the GMC a few days ago and no spark out of nowhere. Tore it apart and it ended up being the old HEI, some wires internally were cut
> through and crumbled to nothing when I touched them.
> Made the call to go ahead and do the fitech install along with a new distributor and use the fitech for the timing control.
>
> MSD Pro Billet 8566 is the distributor you want. From there I went with a standard Blaster 2 coil (also MSD). This SHOULD allow me to control the
> timing with the Fitech 600.
>
> I had planned to go the 400 Route, but since the HEI decided to fall apart, I said ah hell why not?
> --
> Justin Brady
> http://www.thegmcrv.com/
> 1976 Palm Beach 455
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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Re: [GMCnet] More on FiTech questions [message #301900 is a reply to message #301220] |
Thu, 09 June 2016 09:39 |
77Royale
Messages: 461 Registered: June 2014 Location: Mid Michigan
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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I suppose this is a question for 403 owners, but where would you hook the temp sensor on the FiTech unit to? In looking over my intake, I only see one spot which is where the OEM temp sensor is located. Id prefer not to unhook the stock temp sensor to plug in the FiTech.
Any ideas?
77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson carb and dizzy.
Mid Michigan
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Re: [GMCnet] More on FiTech questions [message #301901 is a reply to message #301900] |
Thu, 09 June 2016 09:49 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806 Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Where the "Christmas tree" vacuum fitting is will work., as will the heater
hose connections.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 7:39 AM, Wayne Rogewski wrote:
> I suppose this is a question for 403 owners, but where would you hook the
> temp sensor on the FiTech unit to? In looking over my intake, I only see
> one spot which is where the OEM temp sensor is located. Id prefer not to
> unhook the stock temp sensor to plug in the FiTech.
>
> Any ideas?
> --
> 77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson
> carb and dizzy.
> Mid Michigan
>
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Re: [GMCnet] More on FiTech questions [message #301909 is a reply to message #301220] |
Thu, 09 June 2016 11:42 |
77Royale
Messages: 461 Registered: June 2014 Location: Mid Michigan
Karma: 6
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Thanks Jim, kind of obvious now that I think about it since the EFI would do away with the need for a Christmas tree
77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson carb and dizzy.
Mid Michigan
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