Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Re: [GMCnet] E15 gasoline article
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Re: [GMCnet] E15 gasoline article [message #299257 is a reply to message #299248] |
Mon, 18 April 2016 15:53 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412 Registered: May 2011 Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Tom -
3 non-alcohol stations listed in Padacuh:
Paducah UNBRANDED 90 68 Quick Stop 270-898-7343 7231 Benton Rd. 2015-12-26 Google Earth Google Map details
Paducah MARATHON 93 Minit Mart 270-443-6076 5820 Cairo Rd 2015-09-27 Google Earth Google Map details
Paducah UNBRANDED 90 Pugh's Mid Way 270-442-4387 6801 Cairo Rd 2015-07-26 Google Earth Google Map details
74 total in the state, have a look at
www.pure-gas.org
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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Re: [GMCnet] E15 gasoline article [message #299285 is a reply to message #299248] |
Tue, 19 April 2016 14:23 |
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No such luck here in the PRK, unless you wanna buy 100-110 octane racefuel at about $9 a gallon. Would be great for a seriously blown turbo coach though hehehe
73 Canyon Lands, (a.k.a. The Yellow Submarine) West Los Angeles CA
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Re: [GMCnet] E15 gasoline article [message #299293 is a reply to message #299248] |
Tue, 19 April 2016 19:45 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412 Registered: May 2011 Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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16 stations in CA, of which ten show other than 100 and above octane.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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Re: [GMCnet] E15 gasoline article [message #299299 is a reply to message #299248] |
Tue, 19 April 2016 22:47 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030 Registered: January 2004 Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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There is always the local airport. 100 leaded is available and the standard gasoline fuel sold. Some places you will have to pull up to the 24 hour self service pump after they are closed. Do not run it in any car with a catalytic converter and be prepared to $4.00 plus per gallon.
Or you can always strip out the craponol in E15 with water injection and filtering prior to filling the tank.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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Re: [GMCnet] E15 gasoline article [message #299337 is a reply to message #299299] |
Wed, 20 April 2016 17:43 |
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Ken Burton wrote on Tue, 19 April 2016 22:47There is always the local airport. 100 leaded is available and the standard gasoline fuel sold. Some places you will have to pull up to the 24 hour self service pump after they are closed. Do not run it in any car with a catalytic converter and be prepared to $4.00 plus per gallon.
Or you can always strip out the craponol in E15 with water injection and filtering prior to filling the tank.
that sounds like a lot of work. I wonder how 100LL would run in a coach. would be great to boost it and make use of that octane!
73 Canyon Lands, (a.k.a. The Yellow Submarine) West Los Angeles CA
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Re: [GMCnet] E15 gasoline article [message #299349 is a reply to message #299345] |
Wed, 20 April 2016 20:25 |
Dolph Santorine
Messages: 1236 Registered: April 2011 Location: Wheeling, WV
Karma: -41
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It's what I run in my power equipment. Not nearly as expensive as 100LL
Dolph Santorine
DE N8JPC
Wheeling, West Virginia
1977 ex-Palm Beach TZE167V100820
1-ton, Sullybuilt Bags, Reaction Arms, 3.70 LSD, Manny Transmission, EV-6010,
> On Apr 20, 2016, at 8:10 PM, Thomas Phipps wrote:
>
> Marinas have it. Price varies, based on sport boating or commercial boating.
> Tom, MS II
> --
> 1975 GMC Avion
> KA4CSG
>
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Re: [GMCnet] E15 gasoline article [message #299350 is a reply to message #299248] |
Wed, 20 April 2016 20:27 |
Nelson
Messages: 120 Registered: August 2014
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Note: That article is three years old.
Also note that it states that there MAY be UP to 15% Ethanol. My observation has been since the price of fuel has dropped that there is 0% ethanol in the regular pump gas. Now this is what I find here in central Florida and may not be the case in other areas, however it is fairly easy to check the content of ethanol before filling your vehicle.
HTH,
Nelson Wright
78 Royale Rear Bath
Belle Isle Fl.
On Apr 18, 2016, at 1:55 PM, Tom Whitton wrote:
> Not so good information about E15 gasoline:
>
> http://aaagoingplaces.com/gps/pagesma13/dept_vft_ma13.htm
>
> Now they are saying not to use the stuff in most vehicles built before 2012. I guess that definitely includes motorhomes built in the seventies. My daily driver is a 1999 Pontiac, our best car is a 2011 Hyundai and my hobby car is a 1988 Fiero so I, for one, am up the preverbal creek.
>
> Tom Whitton
> 26 foot updated GMC
> Paducah, KY
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Re: [GMCnet] E15 gasoline article [message #299373 is a reply to message #299248] |
Thu, 21 April 2016 09:08 |
TR 1
Messages: 348 Registered: August 2015 Location: DFW
Karma: -7
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IMO, the best option out there is to convert your fuel system to be ethanol compatible, as chances seem good that ethanol is here to stay.
However, another option out there is you can look for airports that sell "Mogas"... Some aircraft are STC'd to be allowed to fly on unleaded vehicle gas... --As long as it's ethanol free.
Some airports will have ethanol free Mogas pumps available to support this. It's generally cheaper than 100LL when it's available.
Here's a website that lists APs with Mogas...
http://flyunleaded.com/mapusairports.html
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
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Re: [GMCnet] E15 gasoline article [message #299387 is a reply to message #299373] |
Thu, 21 April 2016 11:02 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547 Registered: March 2007 Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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TR 1 wrote on Thu, 21 April 2016 10:08IMO, the best option out there is to convert your fuel system to be ethanol compatible, as chances seem good that ethanol is here to stay.
However, another option out there is you can look for airports that sell "Mogas"... Some aircraft are STC'd to be allowed to fly on unleaded vehicle gas... --As long as it's ethanol free.
Some airports will have ethanol free Mogas pumps available to support this. It's generally cheaper than 100LL when it's available.
Here's a website that lists APs with Mogas...
http://flyunleaded.com/mapusairports.html
Mark,
Sure You Jest.
To make a GMC capable of accommodating E-15 will require replacing everything that fuel and most of the combustion products touch. Think about that one for a while. If I have to do that, we are done.....
Back in the lake 70's, when the refiners and the motorfuel dealers started messing around, I had a car that need 98 motor to run. I took up going to the local airport to fuel. (Do you know the meaning of the acronym PITA?) If I have to do that with the coach, it will get converted to CNG and it won't go anywhere ever again.
E-15 is bad news. My industry friends are saying that the Warranty mill is already poised to deny lots of claims for replacement of really expensive stuff. There are going to be lots of really upset people in the very near future.
But the good side is that E-15 will look real good next to E-85. Another miracle government program.
Matt - back to fitout madness today
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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Re: [GMCnet] E15 gasoline article [message #299390 is a reply to message #299248] |
Thu, 21 April 2016 11:24 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412 Registered: May 2011 Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Nelson -
Could you kindly point me towards your post on testing again?
Thanks,
Johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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Re: [GMCnet] E15 gasoline article [message #299394 is a reply to message #299387] |
Thu, 21 April 2016 11:58 |
TR 1
Messages: 348 Registered: August 2015 Location: DFW
Karma: -7
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Matt Colie wrote on Thu, 21 April 2016 11:02
Mark,
Sure You Jest.
To make a GMC capable of accommodating E-15 will require replacing everything that fuel and most of the combustion products touch. Think about that one for a while. If I have to do that, we are done.....
Matt,
Not saying I like it, but it is what it is. Making your coach ethanol compatible will help the longevity of your rubber fuel system parts with E10 as well... Rebuilding your carb? Make sure the rebuild kit is Ethanol compatible. Replace a fuel line? Make sure you replace it with barrier hose...
BTW, I agree with you about E85 and how it's subsidized by our taxes... However, as a car enthusiast, E85 is a boon to those of us with performance cars --Particularly ones that are turbocharged. E85 is 105 octane. Where else can you get 105 octane fuel that costs less than regular 87. I've converted one of my cars to be E85 compatible, and am working on setting up another to be dual E85 and normal gas compatible. Paying $9 a gallon for race gas gets old quick...
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
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Re: [GMCnet] E15 gasoline article [message #299410 is a reply to message #299390] |
Thu, 21 April 2016 13:20 |
Nelson
Messages: 120 Registered: August 2014
Karma: 0
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Johnny-
Two ways that I know of.
First is to get a small clear jar and put in some suspect fuel.Add a few drops of cake coloring, agitate and observe whether the drops combine with the fuel or rool around on the bottom like beads of mercury. Beading indicates no Ethanol :-)
2nd is to get a tall jar and put a mark 1/2" from the bottom. Add water to the mark and then about 5" of suspect fuel, agitate and let the mixture settle for few minutes. If the water stays at the line on the glass you are Ethanol free, but if it increases you can estimate the % of ethanol content.
HTH,
PS: Maybe Emory could comment on this subject?
Nelson
Sent from my iPhone
Nelson Wright
Orlando Fl.
> On Apr 21, 2016, at 12:24 PM, Johnny Bridges via Gmclist wrote:
>
> Nelson -
> Could you kindly point me towards your post on testing again?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Johnny
> --
> '76 23' transmode Norris upfit
> Braselton, Ga.
>
> "Sometimes I wonder what tomorrow's gonna bring when I think about my dirty life and times" --Warren Zevon
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Re: [GMCnet] E15 gasoline article [message #299456 is a reply to message #299394] |
Fri, 22 April 2016 06:41 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547 Registered: March 2007 Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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TR 1 wrote on Thu, 21 April 2016 12:58Matt,
Not saying I like it, but it is what it is. Making your coach ethanol compatible will help the longevity of your rubber fuel system parts with E10 as well... Rebuilding your carb? Make sure the rebuild kit is Ethanol compatible. Replace a fuel line? Make sure you replace it with barrier hose...
BTW, I agree with you about E85 and how it's subsidized by our taxes... However, as a car enthusiast, E85 is a boon to those of us with performance cars --Particularly ones that are turbocharged. E85 is 105 octane. Where else can you get 105 octane fuel that costs less than regular 87. I've converted one of my cars to be E85 compatible, and am working on setting up another to be dual E85 and normal gas compatible. Paying $9 a gallon for race gas gets old quick...
Mark,
The existing Rochester carburetor cannot be made to be truly E-15 compatible. There problem is far more than just the ethanol compatible internal components, but it then gets to be the diecast body of the device. You may not have seen the problems that we was early in the alcohol in motorfuel days. It is very simply an electrolytic corrosion issue. Zinc is the larger portion of a diecasting alloy and it is very active. That is why galvanizing works. E-15 is hydroscopic enough to pull even more water out of the air and E-15 can hold enough water in solution for the fuel itself to become a corrosive issue. This is what the OEs are fighting right now and why they will not warranty a vehicle earlier than 2012 with fuel system issues. This is a big fight because the emission warranty should still be in effect.
The big problem is that the people that make the rules are all very well off. On one very memorable occasion, I was told in a meeting with these people (EPA Rules committee at that time) that they did not want to consider that any vehicle over five years old should still be in regular use. When I told him that the GAO had determined that a median vehicle was nine years old and had over one hundred thousand miles on it. This information was not well received.
The entire fuel system of my coach has been upgraded to be E-10 tolerant. If I am required to do more, then the budget for the GMC will be blown and when it is cut to the 3k mile per year level, the coach will crease to have any value to me at all. This would only take a small move on the part of the government to accomplish.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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Re: [GMCnet] E15 gasoline article [message #299479 is a reply to message #299456] |
Fri, 22 April 2016 12:32 |
TR 1
Messages: 348 Registered: August 2015 Location: DFW
Karma: -7
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Senior Member |
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Matt Colie wrote on Fri, 22 April 2016 06:41
Mark,
The existing Rochester carburetor cannot be made to be truly E-15 compatible. There problem is far more than just the ethanol compatible internal components, but it then gets to be the diecast body of the device. You may not have seen the problems that we was early in the alcohol in motorfuel days. It is very simply an electrolytic corrosion issue. Zinc is the larger portion of a diecasting alloy and it is very active. That is why galvanizing works. E-15 is hydroscopic enough to pull even more water out of the air and E-15 can hold enough water in solution for the fuel itself to become a corrosive issue. This is what the OEs are fighting right now and why they will not warranty a vehicle earlier than 2012 with fuel system issues. This is a big fight because the emission warranty should still be in effect.
The big problem is that the people that make the rules are all very well off. On one very memorable occasion, I was told in a meeting with these people (EPA Rules committee at that time) that they did not want to consider that any vehicle over five years old should still be in regular use. When I told him that the GAO had determined that a median vehicle was nine years old and had over one hundred thousand miles on it. This information was not well received.
The entire fuel system of my coach has been upgraded to be E-10 tolerant. If I am required to do more, then the budget for the GMC will be blown and when it is cut to the 3k mile per year level, the coach will crease to have any value to me at all. This would only take a small move on the part of the government to accomplish.
Matt
Matt,
I feel like I'm playing devil's advocate here... I agree with you 100% on the disadvantages of ethanol in our gas, and it sounds like you are doing a lot more than me (such as speaking to officials at the EPA) to hopefully turn the tide of moving towards greater levels of ethanol in our fuel.
However to me, this federally mandated change in fuel formulation seems very similar to the phase-out of leaded gasoline... Eventually those of us with older vehicles will have to adapt, and I'm just trying to offer alternatives in the event that we end up on E15, or E20 or...? It never hurts to be prepared.
There are people running E85 in Quadrajets... Cliff Ruggles is a well respected Quadrajet tuner, and he offers assistance setting up Q-Jets to run E85. I believe all the rebuild kits he sells are E-85 compatible, so all he has to do different when working with a customer running E85 is offer advice on how to tune for the different fuel. His rebuild kits are very reasonable, ($45-$80, depending on parts included) and include viton rubber parts and gaskets that are tolerant of ethanol.
Here's a quote from Cliff from the tuning forum he runs on his website:
Re: Alcohol Quadrajet
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2013, 04:25:50 AM »
We have quite a few customers using E-85, none using straight alcohol that I know of.
Our parts hold up fine in E-85. Calibrations are quite different from stock set-ups. Typically takes about 30-35 percent more E-85 to do the same thing as pump gas.....Cliff
http://www.cliffshighperformance.com/
It wouldn't surprise me if the rebuild kits offered by the Jim's, etc. are ethanol compatible as well, but I would check with them, before my next rebuild to be sure.
I understand and agree with what you are saying about the affect the ethanol absorbed moisture has on metal in the fuel system... What I do in my vehicles is I run pump gas though the fuel system of my E85 car if it will sit for any length of time, and I use Stabil products in just about every engine driven machine I own, (Including adding it to all the E85 I burn) except for my daily drivers...
Never had any carb issues with stored vehicles at all with this regiment... I don't even bother to winterize my lawn equipment. I have a 15 year old Stihl leaf blower I use infrequently... It's always stored with fuel in the machine. Never had any carb issues with it at all, using Stabil-ized fuel --including the 6 years I lived in Virginia (more humid than here in TX)
For my GMC, if taking a long trip, I won't add Stabil till I get close to the end... Last couple fill-ups I'll start adding the Stabil again, and make sure I run the genset for a while to circulate the stabilized fuel through it.
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
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Re: [GMCnet] E15 gasoline article [message #299485 is a reply to message #299482] |
Fri, 22 April 2016 12:56 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452 Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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Newer Oklahoma 7-11 and On-Cue stations sell 87 Octane E-10 and
87, 89, and 91 Octane E-0 fuel. Some Phillips 66 and/or Conoco
stations sell ONLY E-0 and some Valero stations offer E-0 and
E-10 87 Octane.
Oklahoma is an "oil" state, NOT a "corn" state!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ Since 30 November '53 ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ Member GMCMI and Classics ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~~ k2gkk + hotmail dot com ~~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
______________
|[ ]~~~[][ ][]\
"--OO--[]---O-"
> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 11:46:50 -0600
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> From: mark.sawyer23@gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] E15 gasoline article
>
> All that being said... If I pass a service station with ethanol free fuel... I stop and fill up ;)
>
> I'll even go so far as to throw some empty jerry cans in the trunk if I'm going to Oklahoma.. (Oklahoma seems to have a lot of E-zero stations, for
> whatever reason)
> --
> Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
> Manny 1 Ton Front End,
> Howell Injection,
> Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
> Fort Worth, TX
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